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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:08:37 PM

Title: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
QuoteFederal lawyers still in wage dispute
Shannon Kari, National Post 
Published: Tuesday, September 22, 2009

Law and order is one of the priorities of the government of Stephen Harper, although it remains in drawn-out negotiations over compensation for the very people who prosecute offenders.

Since his election as Prime Minister in 2006, the federal government has pledged nearly $200-million in additional funding to hire 1,000 new RCMP officers.

Canada Border Services Agency employees were granted an exemption from newly enacted federal wage restraints, to ensure it retains quality personnel.

There have also been a number of crime bills introduced, some of which are controversial and may require Crown lawyers to defend the changes in court against constitutional challenges.

At the same time, the Treasury Board has been involved in sometimes fractious contract negotiations for the past three years with federal prosecutors and all other Justice Department lawyers.

An arbitrator's decision is expected soon after a hearing this summer. Yet the terms of the Expenditure Restraint Act restrict any salary increase to about nine per cent over five years.

This will do little to end wage gaps as high as 30% between federal Crowns and some of their provincial counterparts, says the association that represents federal lawyers.

"This can't sustain itself. There are recruitment and retention problems," said Marco Mendicino, acting president of the Association of Justice Counsel, which acts for the more than 2500 lawyers employed by the federal government. "Lawyers are leaving in droves," he stated.

Federal lawyers prosecute drug and terrorism cases, handle extraditions and immigration proceedings and act for government departments in all civil matters. The wage differences are most acute at the entry level and for senior lawyers.

Six provinces offer first-year Crown attorneys significantly more money than the $54,000 salary for an entry-level federal prosecutor.

The $167,800 maximum salary for the most senior of federal lawyers is slightly less than the top Crowns receive in Alberta and British Columbia. It is far behind the $196,965 top rate in Ontario, which has the highest paid provincial Crown attorneys in Canada (about half of all federal lawyers work in Ontario).

In fact, nearly 500 provincial Crown attorneys in Ontario made over $175,000 in salary and bonuses last year-all above the federal maximum-with more than 60 earning over $200,000, according to salary disclosure data. The top earning provincial trial prosecutor in Toronto was paid $228,000 last year.

Even if the arbitrator awards the maximum nine per cent increase, a senior federal drug prosecutor in Toronto (who receives a cost of living premium not paid to federal lawyers in the rest of the country) will still earn 20% less in 2011 than a provincial Crown with similar experience made in 2008.

The differences are similar in other jurisdictions such as B.C., where a senior federal lawyer makes about 20% less than an equivalent provincial Crown attorney.

The arbitration hearing is "round one" in the attempt to receive more compensation and recognition from the federal government, said Mr. Mendicino. An exemption from the provisions of the restraint legislation, which was enacted this spring but is retroactive to 2006, is what the federal lawyers are seeking. "Otherwise, we should anticipate that more of our top talent will leave to go work for our provincial counterparts," predicted Mr. Mendicino.

He added that the new crime bills, such as the mandatory minimums for marijuana cultivation, may result in more contested bail hearings and trials and increase the need for federal prosecutorial resources.

The Treasury Board disputed many of the arguments put forward by the federal lawyers in written arguments filed with the arbitration panel. "It is important to consider the total compensation package," said the government, pointing to pensions and other benefits.

Robert Makichuk, chief of media relations for the Treasury Board, said he was "not at liberty" to comment while the issues are still before the arbitration panel.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2021568

:angry:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Malthus on September 23, 2009, 12:12:06 PM
Thank you Steven Harper, for guarding our hard-earned tax dollars.  ;)



...


J/K. Those wages are too low to be competitive (though gotta factor in the value of that amazing pension plan ... )
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Grey Fox on September 23, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
I'd like to make 54k has an entry salary.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:14:07 PM
Surely serving the Federation is its own reward?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 23, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
I'd like to make 54k has an entry salary.

Go to law school. :contract:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: KRonn on September 23, 2009, 12:18:07 PM
About time someone cracked down on those damn pesky prosecutors, even if it's in Canada. If this had been done long before we wouldn't have had that poor OJ Simpson have to go through all that unseemly trial and court stuff, for instance.   :cool:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
How many Canadian federal prosecutors are Indians?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
How many Canadian federal prosecutors are Indians?

The one down the hall is.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!

What does this have to do with how much Canadian Federal prosecutors are paid? :huh:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
How many Canadian federal prosecutors are Indians?

The one down the hall is.

Aren't you obliged to turn him in, Mr. If-I-see-an-illegal-post-I-will-tell?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Jacob on September 23, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 23, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
I'd like to make 54k has an entry salary.

That's not an impossible ambition to fulfill.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2009, 12:31:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!

Maybe it's just lazy people.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
How many Canadian federal prosecutors are Indians?

The one down the hall is.

Aren't you obliged to turn him in, Mr. If-I-see-an-illegal-post-I-will-tell?

:rolleyes:

It's a her, Mr. Smartypants.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: DisturbedPervert on September 23, 2009, 12:34:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 23, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
How many Canadian federal prosecutors are Indians?

dot or feather?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: katmai on September 23, 2009, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:34:04 PM


:rolleyes:

It's a her, Mr. Smartypants.

she cute?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!

What does this have to do with how much Canadian Federal prosecutors are paid? :huh:

What I got from your post was more along the lines of how grossly over-paid the provincial guys are.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:34:04 PM


:rolleyes:

It's a her, Mr. Smartypants.

she cute?

:zipped:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: ulmont on September 23, 2009, 12:49:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 23, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
I'd like to make 54k has an entry salary.

Go to law school. :contract:

It's unfair to call that an "entry" salary since you give up several years of raises (at a minimum, and full on several years of salary in addition for some).

The "entry" law salary should be compared to a 4th or 5th year professional with only a single degree.

Of course, in the UK, a law degree is just an undergraduate degree, so you're on your own there.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:51:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!

What does this have to do with how much Canadian Federal prosecutors are paid? :huh:

What I got from your post was more along the lines of how grossly over-paid the provincial guys are.

And what do you base your opinion as to what the proper pay rate for Canadian prosecutors (either federal or provincial) should be?  Would it help your opinion if I told you that Alberta prosecutors (which aren't paid as much as those in Ontario, but are paid more then me) are not in any way unionized?

And what do the tax rates in western New York have to do with any of it?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Malthus on September 23, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
The issue is whether the feds have trouble recruiting or retaining prosecutors at these rates. If with a couple of years experience they can jump ship to the private sector and earn a lot more, it's a problem.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 23, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
The issue is whether the feds have trouble recruiting or retaining prosecutors at these rates. If with a couple of years experience they can jump ship to the private sector and earn a lot more, it's a problem.

I know Mendecino says that is a huge problem, but I'm not 100% sure that it is.  I haven't seen any actual studies.

And the big issue really is people jumping ship to the province, not to private practice.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Malthus on September 23, 2009, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 23, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
The issue is whether the feds have trouble recruiting or retaining prosecutors at these rates. If with a couple of years experience they can jump ship to the private sector and earn a lot more, it's a problem.

I know Mendecino says that is a huge problem, but I'm not 100% sure that it is.  I haven't seen any actual studies.

And the big issue really is people jumping ship to the province, not to private practice.

Well, that would have more or less the same effect.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:34:04 PM


:rolleyes:

It's a her, Mr. Smartypants.

she cute?

:zipped:

I need a green card marriage!
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:44:27 PM
I need a green card marriage!

:huh:

But you already have American residency.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:44:27 PM
I need a green card marriage!

:huh:

But you already have American residency.

You know what i mean, don't play dumb with me Beeb.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:44:27 PM
I need a green card marriage!

:huh:

But you already have American residency.

You know what i mean, don't play dumb with me Beeb.

You're the one playing dumb, assuming that Canada's residency cards are green. :contract:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:52:35 PM


You're the one playing dumb, assuming that Canada's residency cards are green. :contract:

:rolleyes:

The color doesn't matter, all that matters is i need one, dammit!
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:57:43 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:52:35 PM


You're the one playing dumb, assuming that Canada's residency cards are green. :contract:

:rolleyes:

The color doesn't matter, all that matters is i need one, dammit!

If the colour doesn't matter, why did you ask about a green card?

Especially since ours are more of a blueing colour?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca%2Fpublications%2Fpub%2Fimages%2Fbsf5023%2F13cprc.jpg&hash=d61ac5377ae4794fc25b922f886591f37143a031)
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: katmai on September 23, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
That's it, getting in my car now, see you in about 12 hours :angry:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 23, 2009, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country.

That's why my family had to move back to Ohio when I was a kid. Man, that sucked at the time. Big house + low income = NY doesn't want you around, so plz go away.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 02:04:17 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
That's it, getting in my car now, see you in about 12 hours :angry:

:yeah:

It'll be good to see you again.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 02:08:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 02:04:17 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
That's it, getting in my car now, see you in about 12 hours :angry:

:yeah:

It'll be good to see you again.

Oh, and give yourself extra time for the bridge construction north of Haines Junction.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Tonitrus on September 23, 2009, 02:41:35 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
That's it, getting in my car now, see you in about 12 hours :angry:

I'll race you.  :P
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: DGuller on September 23, 2009, 02:49:14 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 23, 2009, 02:03:28 PM
That's why my family had to move back to Ohio when I was a kid. Man, that sucked at the time. Big house + low income = NY doesn't want you around, so plz go away.
To be fair, it's more like Income < Combined African GDP = NY doesn't want you around, so plz go away.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2009, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 23, 2009, 02:49:14 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 23, 2009, 02:03:28 PM
That's why my family had to move back to Ohio when I was a kid. Man, that sucked at the time. Big house + low income = NY doesn't want you around, so plz go away.
To be fair, it's more like Income < Combined African GDP = NY doesn't want you around, so plz go away.

Well so long as they depopulate that region of the deadbeats I suppose it's good.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2009, 06:37:41 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2009, 12:17:58 PM
Latest stats show that Monroe county has the 2nd highest property tax rate in the country. First is Niagara county. I think they said on the radio that all ten of the highest rates were in western New York.

And they fight and bicker over why the economy in upstate NY sucks so bad.

Go go public employee unions!

Wrong thread? :unsure:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2009, 06:40:33 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:57:43 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 23, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 01:52:35 PM


You're the one playing dumb, assuming that Canada's residency cards are green. :contract:

:rolleyes:

The color doesn't matter, all that matters is i need one, dammit!

If the colour doesn't matter, why did you ask about a green card?

Especially since ours are more of a blueing colour?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca%2Fpublications%2Fpub%2Fimages%2Fbsf5023%2F13cprc.jpg&hash=d61ac5377ae4794fc25b922f886591f37143a031)

Wow the design is very similar to Polish IDs. I wonder if there is some international convention regulating this.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Razgovory on September 24, 2009, 07:34:46 AM
Who's the chick?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2009, 07:54:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 24, 2009, 07:34:46 AM
Who's the chick?
Latesa Kiki Amana Anne  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Ed Anger on September 24, 2009, 07:55:43 AM
Too much fucking french on that card.
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Caliga on September 24, 2009, 07:57:34 AM
It's probably Kiki Amana Anne Latesa.  Wonder what "BHS" is.... Bahamas?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Valmy on September 24, 2009, 07:59:10 AM
Quote from: Caliga on September 24, 2009, 07:57:34 AM
It's probably Kiki Amana Anne Latesa.  Wonder what "BHS" is.... Bahamas?

http://www.mba.com/NR/rdonlyres/00A46F9D-766F-4F29-BDE2-F150E8662CA4/0/CountryCodes.pdf

Yep
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2009, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 23, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
I'd like to make 54k has an entry salary.

Go to law school. :contract:

But becoming a Federal court prosecutor is a highly prestigious position given to lawyers of experience and good service. Most people who go in prosecution start as prosecutors in provincial courts, with shitty salaries, backward offices, and dated equipment.

Maybe it is better in other provinces. I know however that, in Quebec, being a Prosecutor is the lawyering equivalent at working at McDonald's compared to the means Defence counsels have. Prosecutors even went on strike here a few years ago to put pressure on the Attorney-General to increase their budget.  :blush:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: DisturbedPervert on September 24, 2009, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 10:05:36 AMand dating equipment.

Instructional video tapes from the Seduction Community?
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 10:15:07 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 24, 2009, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 10:05:36 AMand dated equipment.

Instructional video tapes from the Seduction Community?

Fixed.

The grammarStasi sure is becoming zealous today.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Federal government tough on crime, but also on prosecutors
Post by: DGuller on September 24, 2009, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 24, 2009, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 10:05:36 AMand dating equipment.

Instructional video tapes from the Seduction Community?
:lmfao: