Nope, not going to try to pose as a man for a scholarship. :P
Very interesting article, if a bit long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/sports/20runner.html?hpw (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/sports/20runner.html?hpw)
QuoteBERLIN — On the blue track at the Olympic Stadium, all three medalists celebrated after the women's 800 meters at the world track and field championships. But when it came time for the postrace news conference, the gold medalist, Caster Semenya, was nowhere to be seen. She had been replaced on the rostrum by Pierre Weiss, the general secretary of the International Association of Athletics Federations, the sport's governing body.
Caster Semenya of South Africa, center, crosses the finish line ahead of competition in the women's 800 meters final during the world athletics championships at the Olympic stadium in Berlin.
Earlier in the day, I.A.A.F. officials had confirmed that Semenya, a muscular 18-year-old from South Africa competing in her first senior championship, was undergoing sex-determination testing to confirm her eligibility to race as a woman.
According to Weiss, track and field officials had not had time to resolve the issue before this meet because Semenya had emerged at the world-class level only in the past month. Weiss said that I.A.A.F. officials and South African track and field officials had agreed that it would be too much to ask of an inexperienced teenager to field questions about the gender issue from the news media.
But Weiss stressed that the testing had been initiated because of "ambiguity, not because we believe she is cheating."
It was an unprecedented scene at a major sports event, one that eclipsed the night's other finals, including Yusuf Saad Kamel's victory for Bahrain in the men's 1,500 meters with Bernard Lagat of the United States taking the bronze medal.
But despite the controversy, Semenya had no apparent difficulty handling the pressure of her first major final. She broke free of her much more experienced competitors on the final lap and won by the huge margin of more than two seconds, finishing in 1 minute 55. 45 seconds. (That was still more than two seconds slower than the world record.)
The silver medal went to Janeth Jepkosgei, the defending world champion from Kenya, who finished well back in 1:57.90. The bronze went to Jennifer Meadows of Britain in 1:57.93.
Weiss said that the medal ceremony for the 800 would take place as scheduled on Thursday evening in the stadium but that if the investigation proves Semenya is not a woman, she would be stripped of the gold and the other medalists elevated. The investigation could take weeks, he said.
"But today there is no proof and the benefit of the doubt must always be in favor of the athlete," he said. "Which is why we had no reason, nothing in our hands, to forbid the athlete to compete today."
Not all of the finalists agreed. "These kind of people should not run with us," Elisa Cusma of Italy, who finished sixth, said in a postrace interview with Italian journalists. "For me, she's not a woman. She's a man."
Mariya Savinova, a Russian who finished fifth, told Russian journalists that she did not believe Semenya would be able to pass a test. "Just look at her," Savinova said.
But sex-determination testing is a complex process that has often not been handled effectively by sports organizations.
"It turns out genes, hormones and genitals are pretty complicated," Alice Dreger, a professor of medical humanities and bioethics at Northwestern University, said in a telephone interview. "There isn't really one simple way to sort out males and females. Sports require that we do, but biology doesn't care. Biology does not fit neatly into simple categories, so they do these tests. And part of the reason I've criticized the tests is that a lot of times, the officials don't say specifically how they're testing and why they're using that test. It should be subject to scientific review."
Sex-determination testing was once obligatory for female athletes at the Olympics because of persistent allegations that some competitors were not really women. Sanctions are very rare. One case came at the 2006 Asian Games, where a middle-distance runner, Santhi Soundarajan of India, was stripped of a silver medal after failing a verification test.
The sex-determination testing was phased out in 1999 because of concerns about inequities. The testing is now reserved for specific cases in Olympic sports.
Nick Davies, a spokesman for the I.A.A.F., said that Semenya, who is listed at 5 feet 7 and 140 pounds in her I.A.A.F. biography, first came to his organization's attention this year by slicing more than seven seconds off her best time of 2008 in the 800.
That is a huge drop in a relatively short race, but after running 2:04.23 and winning the 2008 Commonwealth Youth Games, she ran 2:00.58 in a local South African meet on March 9 and burst to prominence by winning the African Junior Championships on July 31 in Bambous, Mauritius, in 1:56.72. That was the fastest time of the year, senior level included.
Davies said that potential doping was the first concern when a dramatic drop in time occurs, but in Semenya's case, he said the I.A.A.F. had moved on to examining other possibilities.
"We just acted in a way we thought was sensible," Davies said. "If we would have sat back and done nothing, it would have been very strange of us as well."
He said the I.A.A.F. had decided to confirm the existence of the investigation only when asked about it in Berlin by reporters. "The choice is that you lie, which we don't like to do," said Davies, acknowledging that it was unfortunate that Semenya's privacy had been violated.
Weiss said there had not been enough time to reach a conclusion. "She was unknown three weeks ago," he told reporters. "Nobody could anticipate this one. Sorry. We are fast, but we are not a lion."
He said the I.A.A.F. would have "preferred not to have the controversy" at its marquee event, but not at the price of depriving a potentially eligible athlete like Semenya from competing.
"If none of it's true, I feel very sorry for her," said Meadows, the British athlete who sat next to Weiss during the medalists' news conference.
Weiss said that the two-pronged investigation was being conducted in South Africa and in Berlin in hospitals that specialize in sex-testing issues. He said that Dr. Harold Adams, a South African on the I.A.A.F. medical commission, was helping to coordinate the work in South Africa.
Davies emphasized that the testing is extensive, beginning with a visual evaluation by a physician. "There is chromosome testing, gynecological investigation, all manner of things, organs, X-rays, scans," he said. "It's very, very comprehensive."
Dreger said the doctors could examine genes, gonads, genitalia, hormone levels and medical history.
"But at the end of the day, they are going to have to make a social decision on what counts as male and female, and they will wrap it up as if it is simply a scientific decision," Dreger said. "And the science actually tells us sex is messy. Or as I like to say, 'Humans like categories neat, but nature is a slob.'
Quote from: merithyn on August 19, 2009, 10:00:42 PM
Nope, not going to try to pose as a man for a scholarship. :P
Why not? Dorsey posed as a Mexican for a scholarship. Or was it Puerto Rican? I can't remember.
Well, I would pass the physical part of the test, I think, as I have no uterus nor ovaries. :D
The rest is just cosmetic, right? :unsure:
If only we had our discussions from old Languish. :(
Personally, I've no idea.
It's called chromosomes.
He who uses no skin products, wears no make-up, and tosses away accessories is a man. She who does the opposite is a woman.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 19, 2009, 10:46:08 PM
He who uses no skin products, wears no make-up, and tosses away accessories is a man. She who does the opposite is a woman.
False. Lesbians are not men.
I use skin products.
How about this instead
"He who does not spend a few dollars to help their skin be clean and healthy is probably a Chinaman."
Quote from: Jaron on August 19, 2009, 11:21:17 PM
I use skin products.
How about this instead
"He who does not spend a few dollars to help their skin be clean and healthy is probably a Chinaman."
Soap and shampoo is all you need. Anything else is girlish.
winning the womens 800 m at the IAAF World Championship makes you a man apparently...
Quote from: Monoriu on August 19, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Soap and shampoo is all you need. Anything else is girlish.
False, but then I imagine you don't have much interaction with real people which is evidenced by the fact that you didn't mention deodorant. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 19, 2009, 10:02:57 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 19, 2009, 10:00:42 PM
Nope, not going to try to pose as a man for a scholarship. :P
Why not? Dorsey posed as a Mexican for a scholarship. Or was it Puerto Rican? I can't remember.
He also aged himself so that he could get a seniors discount.
an age old question. that is. I wish I knew. Seriously. :(
Quote from: garbon on August 19, 2009, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 19, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Soap and shampoo is all you need. Anything else is girlish.
False, but then I imagine you don't have much interaction with real people which is evidenced by the fact that you didn't mention deodorant. :(
I wouldn't classify deoderant as a "skin product."
For the record, I do not use deodorant. Never has, never will.
:x :x :x
Quote from: garbon on August 20, 2009, 12:58:18 AM
:x :x :x
I shower every day. That's enough. No one has ever complained. And my wife is not exactly the sort who will tolerate this kind of thing :P
Quote from: Monoriu on August 19, 2009, 10:46:08 PM
He who uses no skin products, wears no make-up, and tosses away accessories is a man. She who does the opposite is a woman.
You'll get my apricot facial scrub when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 19, 2009, 11:50:44 PM
an age old question. that is. I wish I knew. Seriously. :(
:hug:
You are who you are, my friend, and that's good enough for me.
I once tried to explain to my mom, a nurse of 40 years, that there are more than just two genders. She looked at me as though I'd lost my mind and told me that I had no idea what I was talking about. Quite obviously, a person is what their genitalia make them, and that is that. Ah, but if only the world worked as easily and simply as my mom's mind.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 20, 2009, 01:04:14 AM
I shower every day. That's enough.
It's not. Especially in your climate.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 20, 2009, 01:04:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 20, 2009, 12:58:18 AM
:x :x :x
I shower every day. That's enough. No one has ever complained. And my wife is not exactly the sort who will tolerate this kind of thing :P
Dudes... he's probably got no pit hair.
Quote from: merithyn on August 20, 2009, 04:59:36 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 19, 2009, 11:50:44 PM
an age old question. that is. I wish I knew. Seriously. :(
:hug:
You are who you are, my friend, and that's good enough for me.
I once tried to explain to my mom, a nurse of 40 years, that there are more than just two genders. She looked at me as though I'd lost my mind and told me that I had no idea what I was talking about. Quite obviously, a person is what their genitalia make them, and that is that. Ah, but if only the world worked as easily and simply as my mom's mind.
:lol:
Don't ever change, Meri.
:hug:
Quote from: Slargos on August 20, 2009, 06:29:57 AM
:lol:
Don't ever change, Meri.
:hug:
Okay. :) :hug:
Quote from: merithyn on August 20, 2009, 04:59:36 AM
I once tried to explain to my mom, a nurse of 40 years, that there are more than just two genders.
So should we have three genders in the Olympics?
Men, women, and other?
QuoteQuite obviously, a person is what their genitalia make them, and that is that. Ah, but if only the world worked as easily and simply as my mom's mind.
I guess it depends on whether you consider gender a social construct or as a division made due to slight human sexual dimorphism like in sports.
If you do not have the physical disadvantages of being a woman competing as one is cheating.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 20, 2009, 04:59:36 AM
I once tried to explain to my mom, a nurse of 40 years, that there are more than just two genders.
So should we have three genders in the Olympics?
Men, women, and other?
In theory, the problem is not the number of options, but viewing gender as a binary. The bulk of gender identity is in perception and mannerisms, though, so arguing about someone's perception or even their chromosomes, if there are no other outward indicators, isn't exactly germane to a sports oversight authority trying to maintain anatomical consistency. <_<
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 20, 2009, 07:53:32 AM
In theory, the problem is not the number of options, but viewing gender as a binary. The bulk of gender identity is in perception and mannerisms, though, so arguing about someone's perception or even their chromosomes, if there are no other outward indicators, isn't exactly germane to a sports oversight authority trying to maintain anatomical consistency. <_<
Yep we do not split off female and male competitors because of their gender identity and mannerisms.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 07:46:44 AM
So should we have three genders in the Olympics?
Men, women, and other?
Men, women and fruits.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 07:46:44 AM
So should we have three genders in the Olympics?
Men, women, and other?
Regular Olympics and The Hermaphrodite Games
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 07:55:09 AM
Yep we do not split off female and male competitors because of their gender identity and mannerisms.
Sounds like people are drawing lines just to be pissy- "gender identification" is a soft science, but comparative anatomy is a pretty hard one.
Why would you make a statement like that, Valmy?
Gender is the expression of sex-roles in culture. If the culture does not recognize more than two, why throw that canard out there about more than two genders in the olympics? The point is, some cultures do have more than two genders, but at the present I do not see Western Culture at that stage.
Quote from: PDH on August 20, 2009, 09:43:35 AM
If the culture does not recognize more than two, why throw that canard out there about more than two genders in the olympics?
Because the whole arguement about the cultural gender stuff is a canard when we are talking about athletic competition. If there is no physical difference between men and women then there would not be separate events for them. It is not because it is somehow a feminine cultural trait to run the 800 meters 10 seconds slower.
Are you telling me that the women could run the 800 meters in 1:45 but choose to run it in 1:55 because of some sort of cultural expression? What enormous bullshit. Trying to compete in the woman's 800 meters without anatomically being a woman is fucking cheating no matter how many feminine cultural traits you embrace.
First of all, I believe I said that the West does indeed recognize two genders, and so that split seems a valid test to divide athletes - that is why this person is being tested.
Nowhere did I even attempt to argue that gender, gender roles, or gender identification should be used to cause the cultural value male-female division to be applied to athletics or the like. Sex is biological, sex expressed in culture is gender. The West has traditionally made the gender-sex division a duality.
I am not telling you a woman runs slower because of gender, I am telling you a woman runs slower because of sex. THAT difference is why I am not arguing for more than two genders, that follow the biological division as in the west, should be allowed in such things as a divided arena such as the Olympics. This is also why they are testing this person to determine biological sex...
Quote from: PDH on August 20, 2009, 10:02:06 AM
Sex is biological, sex expressed in culture is gender.
Curse you academics and your academic definitions!
Quote from: PDH on August 20, 2009, 10:02:06 AMI am telling you a woman runs slower because of sex.
With me that just makes them run faster :(
I wonder how this will work out, she does look pretty mannish.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
Because the whole arguement about the cultural gender stuff is a canard when we are talking about athletic competition. If there is no physical difference between men and women then there would not be separate events for them. It is not because it is somehow a feminine cultural trait to run the 800 meters 10 seconds slower.
If it's a physical difference rather than a cultural one, explain why "male" robots outperform "female" ones. :yeahright:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fb1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com%2F00493%2F17%2F60%2F493950671_s.jpg&hash=6e677168f5a83a147cff6be7be44fb502a1d5ec5)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 20, 2009, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
Because the whole arguement about the cultural gender stuff is a canard when we are talking about athletic competition. If there is no physical difference between men and women then there would not be separate events for them. It is not because it is somehow a feminine cultural trait to run the 800 meters 10 seconds slower.
If it's a physical difference rather than a cultural one, explain why "male" robots outperform "female" ones. :yeahright:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fb1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com%2F00493%2F17%2F60%2F493950671_s.jpg&hash=6e677168f5a83a147cff6be7be44fb502a1d5ec5)
He's got you there Valmy. :yes:
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on August 20, 2009, 09:43:35 AM
If the culture does not recognize more than two, why throw that canard out there about more than two genders in the olympics?
Because the whole arguement about the cultural gender stuff is a canard when we are talking about athletic competition. If there is no physical difference between men and women then there would not be separate events for them. It is not because it is somehow a feminine cultural trait to run the 800 meters 10 seconds slower.
Are you telling me that the women could run the 800 meters in 1:45 but choose to run it in 1:55 because of some sort of cultural expression? What enormous bullshit. Trying to compete in the woman's 800 meters without anatomically being a woman is fucking cheating no matter how many feminine cultural traits you embrace.
If you do transition fully to female you lose all that muscle mass. gone. MTFs do have less (none, almost) testoserone than biological women. They may be horsy, and less elegant looking, but not moreso than your average female athlete. No Tranny could ever have legs like Flo-Jo without roids.
What's the big deal? No one cares about women's athletics anyway.
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2009, 12:01:04 PM
What's the big deal? No one cares about women's athletics anyway.
except tennis & figure skating.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 20, 2009, 11:57:21 AM
If you do transition fully to female you lose all that muscle mass. gone. MTFs do have less (none, almost) testoserone than biological women. They may be horsy, and less elegant looking, but not moreso than your average female athlete. No Tranny could ever have legs like Flo-Jo without roids.
You may be right about that BUT once you go down that road you are opening yourself up to lots of room for cheating.
I would prefer the trannies compete with the men if they fancy themselves world class olympic athlete trannies.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 20, 2009, 11:57:21 AM
If you do transition fully to female you lose all that muscle mass. gone. MTFs do have less (none, almost) testoserone than biological women. They may be horsy, and less elegant looking, but not moreso than your average female athlete. No Tranny could ever have legs like Flo-Jo without roids.
You may be right about that BUT once you go down that road you are opening yourself up to lots of room for cheating.
I would prefer the trannies compete with the men if they fancy themselves world class olympic athlete trannies.
I disagree.... but it's a pretty small amount of athletes to start with.... not really worth discussing.
You could get around the problem by just banning butt ugly people from competing. The questionable cases look like puke.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 20, 2009, 12:15:33 PM
I disagree.... but it's a pretty small amount of athletes to start with.... not really worth discussing.
Well there is the small problem that taking hormone treatments of any sort is illegal for athletes.
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
You could get around the problem by just banning butt ugly people from competing. The questionable cases look like puke.
sure... as long that applies to ugly bio male and females also. and horses with questionable breeding histories and ugly forlocks in the equestrian events.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 20, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
You could get around the problem by just banning butt ugly people from competing. The questionable cases look like puke.
sure... as long that applies to ugly bio male and females also. and horses with questionable breeding histories and ugly forlocks in the equestrian events.
Of course. Sports is show biz. I'm not paying to see ugly people.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 20, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
horses with questionable breeding histories and ugly forlocks in the equestrian events.
It is good to know your audience
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 07:46:44 AM
So should we have three genders in the Olympics?
Men, women, and other?
I guess it depends on whether you consider gender a social construct or as a division made due to slight human sexual dimorphism like in sports.
If you do not have the physical disadvantages of being a woman competing as one is cheating.
:unsure:
I don't remember making any of those comments. I was merely relaying an anecdote about old ideas versus new science. In fact, I've made no comment whatsoever about the article, as I've no opinion on the matter.
Quote from: merithyn on August 20, 2009, 12:50:43 PM
I don't remember making any of those comments. I was merely relaying an anecdote about old ideas versus new science. In fact, I've made no comment whatsoever about the article, as I've no opinion on the matter.
The fact your comments had nothing to do with my misplaced rant does not mean my misplaced rant is any less true!
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 12:53:14 PM
The fact your comments had nothing to do with my misplaced rant does not mean my misplaced rant is any less true!
THAT is languish, god bless you!
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 12:53:14 PM
The fact your comments had nothing to do with my misplaced rant does not mean my misplaced rant is any less true!
See, and I was just telling Max that Languish felt.. wrong. I've been reading reasonable discourse and actually learning a good bit from the lot of you. I was scared. :cry:
Thank you for bringing us back to where we started, Valmy. ^_^
Quote from: merithyn on August 20, 2009, 12:57:56 PM
See, and I was just telling Max that Languish felt.. wrong. I've been reading reasonable discourse and actually learning a good bit from the lot of you. I was scared. :cry:
Thank you for bringing us back to where we started, Valmy. ^_^
I am here to make you feel at home :)
Anyway I misunderstood and I admitted it no need to pile on. :(
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 12:10:25 PM
I would prefer the trannies compete with the men if they fancy themselves world class olympic athlete trannies.
In Thailand they compete with the men if they want to play sports. Back in the mid 90s a gay/trannie team won the national volleyball tournament.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 20, 2009, 01:14:49 PM
In Thailand they compete with the men if they want to play sports. Back in the mid 90s a gay/trannie team won the national volleyball tournament.
It is good to see my ideas working out in reality.
Lesbians(or regular 'ol women) can buy attachments to switch genders.
www.runnerstribe.com/lenjohnsonhome.php (http://www.runnerstribe.com/lenjohnsonhome.php)
Under 'Women's 800 - Situation Normal: Friday August 7, 2009' there's an artical about various winners and a nice picture of her too.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 20, 2009, 01:19:21 PM
Lesbians(or regular 'ol women) can buy attachments to switch genders.
I made the mistake of watching that Southern Comfort documentary about "men" who used to be women (I guess there were some who flipped the opposite way as well). They were able to grow beards & all from the hormone injections & had their boobs cut off, but one thing they couldn't hide was their bitch hips, which were quite evident when they wore jeans.
Quote from: derspiess on August 20, 2009, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 20, 2009, 01:19:21 PM
Lesbians(or regular 'ol women) can buy attachments to switch genders.
I made the mistake of watching that Southern Comfort documentary about "men" who used to be women (I guess there were some who flipped the opposite way as well). They were able to grow beards & all from the hormone injections & had their boobs cut off, but one thing they couldn't hide was their bitch hips, which were quite evident when they wore jeans.
I wouldn't admit watching that in this forum. Rookie mistake. :mad:
Well at least he conceded it was a mistake. :blush:
Gender is social, sex is genetic.
Even in sex distinctions, though, you have XXY chromosome combos and the like, which muddy things.
Is there a gradual transition of times between genders, or is there a big gap?
If the variation is discontinuous, then surely the easiest thing to do is place people, regardless of gender in groups where their time range fits.
You might even find there is a third group for people whose mixed gender characteristics give them a mixture of advantages and disadvantages. You might even find a fourth group where people are extreme enough to slip off the end of the distribution curve.
Take gender out of sport I say!
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 02:58:17 PM
Take gender out of sport I say!
Yeah, that would be great. You might as well say take women out of sport.
But as people have already said in this thread it is sex that is in sport not gender. -_-
"Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina."
-Gay little kid from Kindergarden Cop
If a five year old knows the answer, how come some adults on here don't? -_-
@ Valmy
Exactly. It would be how well people do within their own time group. It could even solve the drugs problem -there could be groups for the athletes who take the choice to risk their health to get a better performance
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 02:58:17 PM
Is there a gradual transition of times between genders, or is there a big gap?
If the variation is discontinuous, then surely the easiest thing to do is place people, regardless of gender in groups where their time range fits.
You might even find there is a third group for people whose mixed gender characteristics give them a mixture of advantages and disadvantages. You might even find a fourth group where people are extreme enough to slip off the end of the distribution curve.
Take gender out of sport I say!
You want to hand out a gold medal to the fastest person in the pretty slow group? :huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 20, 2009, 03:15:31 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 02:58:17 PM
Is there a gradual transition of times between genders, or is there a big gap?
If the variation is discontinuous, then surely the easiest thing to do is place people, regardless of gender in groups where their time range fits.
You might even find there is a third group for people whose mixed gender characteristics give them a mixture of advantages and disadvantages. You might even find a fourth group where people are extreme enough to slip off the end of the distribution curve.
Take gender out of sport I say!
You want to hand out a gold medal to the fastest person in the pretty slow group? :huh:
That's what we do already. It's just that it's called the women's group
Sports like wrestling and boxing have already embraced the idea of having classes for people who are completely unfit for the sport (120 lb boxer like wtf).
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
That's what we do already. It's just that it's called the women's group
I don't know...celebrating the world's fastest/strongest woman is a little more glorious than celebrating the world's fastest/strongest slow/weak person.
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2009, 03:28:17 PM
Sports like wrestling and boxing have already embraced the idea of having classes for people who are completely unfit for the sport (120 lb boxer like wtf).
Weight or height restrictions make a lot more sense than ones based on performance as Swallow suggests.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 03:33:21 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
That's what we do already. It's just that it's called the women's group
I don't know...celebrating the world's fastest/strongest woman is a little more glorious than celebrating the world's fastest/strongest slow/weak person.
I find it all quite patronising - it would also solve the issues faced by that guy with the artificial running blades - but taking your point on board, it would be best for the athletes to decide what they like best
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
I find it all quite patronising
How is it patronising? Sometimes the female version of an event is actually far more popular and the athletes more famous. There is nothing patronising about it.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 20, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2009, 03:28:17 PM
Sports like wrestling and boxing have already embraced the idea of having classes for people who are completely unfit for the sport (120 lb boxer like wtf).
Weight or height restrictions make a lot more sense than ones based on performance as Swallow suggests.
Mine make a lot of sense if (and, yes, only if) there's a bell curve within each group. People would be better placed in groups, training could be more specific to the body shape (hormones 'gender' skeleton etc, whatever) and overall, performance would get the chance to improve
I want to see a female Quarterback disemboweled by Ray Lewis.
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
Mine make a lot of sense if (and, yes, only if) there's a bell curve within each group. People would be better placed in groups, training could be more specific to the body shape (hormones 'gender' skeleton etc, whatever) and overall, performance would get the chance to improve
People are only going to watch the top group, just like now.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
I find it all quite patronising
How is it patronising? Sometimes the female version of an event is actually far more popular and the athletes more famous. There is nothing patronising about it.
For a similar reason that some female actors prefer to call themselves actors rather than actresses. You want to be judged for what you can do to the best of your own ability, not by what you can do by your gender
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
I find it all quite patronising
How is it patronising? Sometimes the female version of an event is actually far more popular and the athletes more famous. There is nothing patronising about it.
Yeah, but rarely becasue they're better at it, but because they look hot doing it (and then there's tennis, not sure why women is more popular. the grunting? Then curling would be the number one woamsn sport lol )
Quote from: HVC on August 20, 2009, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
I find it all quite patronising
How is it patronising? Sometimes the female version of an event is actually far more popular and the athletes more famous. There is nothing patronising about it.
Yeah, but rarely becasue they're better at it, but because they look hot doing it (and then there's tennis, not sure why women is more popular. the grunting? Then curling would be the number one woamsn sport lol )
The short skirts, duh. And not all female tennis players look like the Williams sisters.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 20, 2009, 03:56:16 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 20, 2009, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
I find it all quite patronising
How is it patronising? Sometimes the female version of an event is actually far more popular and the athletes more famous. There is nothing patronising about it.
Yeah, but rarely becasue they're better at it, but because they look hot doing it (and then there's tennis, not sure why women is more popular. the grunting? Then curling would be the number one woamsn sport lol )
The short skirts, duh. And not all female tennis players look like the Williams sisters.
While there are some hot ones, most are bulky. it's... disconcerting.
Quote from: HVC on August 20, 2009, 03:53:58 PM
Yeah, but rarely becasue they're better at it, but because they look hot doing it
Your tastes may vary but I think few of the fans who turn in for figure skating or gymnastics do so because of the hot girls.
Quote from: swallow on August 20, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
Mine make a lot of sense if (and, yes, only if) there's a bell curve within each group. People would be better placed in groups, training could be more specific to the body shape (hormones 'gender' skeleton etc, whatever) and overall, performance would get the chance to improve
The seems alot more work and alot easier to cheat than a simple sex split.
Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2009, 05:28:33 PM
Your tastes may vary but I think few of the fans who turn in for figure skating or gymnastics do so because of the hot girls.
Some of the gals who do the "rhythmic" gymnastics are pretty hott.