http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090815_Solomon_Jones__Vick_had_to_face_his_kids__and_that_s_the_hardest_part_of_all.html (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090815_Solomon_Jones__Vick_had_to_face_his_kids__and_that_s_the_hardest_part_of_all.html)
QuoteAS A HUSBAND and father, my family is my most prized possession. It's my job to love them, protect them, provide for them and, most of all, present them with a living portrait of manhood.
That's why it struck a chord with me when I watched the news conference announcing that Michael Vick - who served 18 months in prison for bankrolling a dogfighting ring - had been signed by the Eagles.
Amid everything Vick said about contrition and redemption, one thing stood out for me as a father. The most difficult part of his ordeal, he said, was telling his children what he'd done.
Like all of us, I've made my share of mistakes and suffered my portion of consequences. But to risk damaging the portrait of manhood I've painted for my children would be devastating. Not just for them, but for me.
That's why I believe Michael Vick has already faced a punishment more severe than prison. He's done something most fathers pray they'll never have to do. He's admitted his greatest faults to his children.
But Vick has also admitted something more. He's admitted that he must change.
As a father, Eagles coach Andy Reid knows the value of that. Having watched his two sons make mistakes that resulted in jail time, Reid understands that none of us is infallible, and that there are times when a second chance is warranted.
I applaud Reid for demonstrating forgiveness. I commend him for facing a media more concerned with stoking the flames than dousing the fire. Most importantly, I admire Reid for presenting a portrait of manhood to which all of us should aspire.
Standing up for what is right isn't always popular. Embracing someone who has fallen isn't always easy. But sometimes, as a man, you must stand on the strength of your convictions, and ignore the cries of the crowd.
No one understands that better than Tony Dungy - a man who won a Super Bowl with the same quiet dignity with which he has lived his life, and endured the loss of a son to suicide along the way.
Dungy learned, like all of us do, that sometimes, despite our best efforts, the results are beyond our control. That hasn't stopped Dungy from mentoring Vick. In fact, I have the feeling that Dungy, an intensely spiritual man, is comforted in knowing that a higher authority is in charge.
It's a good thing, too. Were everything left to us, the voices of condemnation would drown out the voices of reason.
As a father, I hope those voices would scream as loudly if the people I love most were hurt. But based on what I've seen in other cases involving athletics, I'm not sure that would happen.
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was accused of raping a woman, and ESPN refused to cover it. Phillies pitcher Brett Myers beat his wife in public and rejoined the team within weeks. Louisville coach Rick Pitino had an extramarital affair- and allegedly paid to terminate a resultant pregnancy - and the university is standing by him, despite his contract's morals clause.
In none of those cases was the public outcry as loud or sustained as the one against Michael Vick.
As a father of two daughters, as a husband and son, as a man with female co-workers, friends and readers of every age and hue, that concerns me.
If the women I love and respect were ever mistreated, I would hope the perpetrator would be forced not only to face me, but to face the same public outrage that Michael Vick has endured for his treatment of dogs.
What am I saying? I'm saying that, as a man, I must stand on the strength of my convictions. I believe Michael Vick was wrong. I believe he must change. But I also believe that if our society values animals more than it values women, we have to change, as well.
I'm a bit offended by this article. First, he's equated women to dogs. Second, he's singled out situations that are nowhere near as horrific as what Michael Vick did (except for Brett Myers, but the wife dropped all charges and asked that he not be further punished for his actions; not exactly the Phillies' fault). Mind you, Ben Roethlesberger has never been convicted, merely accused. Not sure why he's even on this list.
Poorly written article or poorly held view?
Is this Indiana Jone's grandson?
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:10:58 AM
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090815_Solomon_Jones__Vick_had_to_face_his_kids__and_that_s_the_hardest_part_of_all.html (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090815_Solomon_Jones__Vick_had_to_face_his_kids__and_that_s_the_hardest_part_of_all.html)
QuoteAS A HUSBAND and father, my family is my most prized possession. It's my job to love them, protect them, provide for them and, most of all, present them with a living portrait of manhood.
That's why it struck a chord with me when I watched the news conference announcing that Michael Vick - who served 18 months in prison for bankrolling a dogfighting ring - had been signed by the Eagles.
Amid everything Vick said about contrition and redemption, one thing stood out for me as a father. The most difficult part of his ordeal, he said, was telling his children what he'd done.
Like all of us, I've made my share of mistakes and suffered my portion of consequences. But to risk damaging the portrait of manhood I've painted for my children would be devastating. Not just for them, but for me.
That's why I believe Michael Vick has already faced a punishment more severe than prison. He's done something most fathers pray they'll never have to do. He's admitted his greatest faults to his children.
But Vick has also admitted something more. He's admitted that he must change.
As a father, Eagles coach Andy Reid knows the value of that. Having watched his two sons make mistakes that resulted in jail time, Reid understands that none of us is infallible, and that there are times when a second chance is warranted.
I applaud Reid for demonstrating forgiveness. I commend him for facing a media more concerned with stoking the flames than dousing the fire. Most importantly, I admire Reid for presenting a portrait of manhood to which all of us should aspire.
Standing up for what is right isn't always popular. Embracing someone who has fallen isn't always easy. But sometimes, as a man, you must stand on the strength of your convictions, and ignore the cries of the crowd.
No one understands that better than Tony Dungy - a man who won a Super Bowl with the same quiet dignity with which he has lived his life, and endured the loss of a son to suicide along the way.
Dungy learned, like all of us do, that sometimes, despite our best efforts, the results are beyond our control. That hasn't stopped Dungy from mentoring Vick. In fact, I have the feeling that Dungy, an intensely spiritual man, is comforted in knowing that a higher authority is in charge.
It's a good thing, too. Were everything left to us, the voices of condemnation would drown out the voices of reason.
As a father, I hope those voices would scream as loudly if the people I love most were hurt. But based on what I've seen in other cases involving athletics, I'm not sure that would happen.
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was accused of raping a woman, and ESPN refused to cover it. Phillies pitcher Brett Myers beat his wife in public and rejoined the team within weeks. Louisville coach Rick Pitino had an extramarital affair- and allegedly paid to terminate a resultant pregnancy - and the university is standing by him, despite his contract's morals clause.
In none of those cases was the public outcry as loud or sustained as the one against Michael Vick.
As a father of two daughters, as a husband and son, as a man with female co-workers, friends and readers of every age and hue, that concerns me.
If the women I love and respect were ever mistreated, I would hope the perpetrator would be forced not only to face me, but to face the same public outrage that Michael Vick has endured for his treatment of dogs.
What am I saying? I'm saying that, as a man, I must stand on the strength of my convictions. I believe Michael Vick was wrong. I believe he must change. But I also believe that if our society values animals more than it values women, we have to change, as well.
I'm a bit offended by this article. First, he's equated women to dogs. Second, he's singled out situations that are nowhere near as horrific as what Michael Vick did (except for Brett Myers, but the wife dropped all charges and asked that he not be further punished for his actions; not exactly the Phillies' fault). Mind you, Ben Roethlesberger has never been convicted, merely accused. Not sure why he's even on this list.
Poorly written article or poorly held view?
I don't understand your comments.
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:10:58 AM
First, he's equated women to dogs.
Not really. You're just looking for something to offend you.
QuoteSecond, he's singled out situations that are nowhere near as horrific as what Michael Vick did
Not really. For one thing, funding a dogfighting operation isn't horrific. For another, beating your wife is worse than killing a few dozen dogs.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:24:59 AM
For another, beating your wife is worse than killing a few dozen dogs.
I disagree.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 15, 2009, 09:41:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:24:59 AM
For another, beating your wife is worse than killing a few dozen dogs.
I disagree.
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Still, the funniest part of Meri's reaction is that, on the one hand, she's offended by having crimes against women and crimes against animals mentioned in the same breath, thinking that doing so diminishes women. On the other hand, she feels that the crimes against women that were mentioned are trivial next to the crimes against animals.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Still, the funniest part of Meri's reaction is that, on the one hand, she's offended by having crimes against women and crimes against animals mentioned in the same breath, thinking that doing so diminishes women. On the other hand, she feels that the crimes against women that were mentioned are trivial next to the crimes against animals.
Not trivial; different. Apples and oranges.
- Ben wasn't convicted; Vick was.
- Brett's wife dropped all charges (because she's an idiot) and they've been in marriage counseling since; the dogs are still dead and had no voice in any of this.
- Piton is an idiot, his wife was cuckolded, but no one was injured or killed; Vick directly lead to the death of dozens of dogs.
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:10:58 AM
I'm a bit offended by this article. First, he's equated women to dogs. Second, he's singled out situations that are nowhere near as horrific as what Michael Vick did (except for Brett Myers, but the wife dropped all charges and asked that he not be further punished for his actions; not exactly the Phillies' fault). Mind you, Ben Roethlesberger has never been convicted, merely accused. Not sure why he's even on this list.
Poorly written article or poorly held view?
What the article is really trying to convey is that since Michael Vick will now be wearing a Philly uniform, it is okay for to cheer for him. Also there is probably a subtle suggestion of a racial angle, since all the guys mentioned are white. A better comparable case would be the player who killed someone driving drunk, but he won't have to sit out as long as Vick.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Of course you would dismiss it; you'd never want to disappoint Mr. Pewterschmidt, even though one dog is worth more than your wife.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 15, 2009, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Of course you would dismiss it; you'd never want to disappoint Mr. Pewterschmidt, even though one dog is worth more than your wife.
Actually, my family is the one with the money. My inlaws have nicknamed my family 'The Rockefellers'.
Besides, no domestic animal is worth anywhere near a human. Human life isn't worth much, but it's worth far more than a parasite.
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Still, the funniest part of Meri's reaction is that, on the one hand, she's offended by having crimes against women and crimes against animals mentioned in the same breath, thinking that doing so diminishes women. On the other hand, she feels that the crimes against women that were mentioned are trivial next to the crimes against animals.
Not trivial; different. Apples and oranges.
- Ben wasn't convicted; Vick was.
- Brett's wife dropped all charges (because she's an idiot) and they've been in marriage counseling since; the dogs are still dead and had no voice in any of this.
- Piton is an idiot, his wife was cuckolded, but no one was injured or killed; Vick directly lead to the death of dozens of dogs.
Causing a human being discomfort is more serious than killing an animal.
Besides, the dogs would never have a voice anyways. Here's a Neil Fact for you: Animals can't speak. They don't have the mouth, tongue or throat equipment for English.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 15, 2009, 09:41:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:24:59 AM
For another, beating your wife is worse than killing a few dozen dogs.
I disagree.
Depends on the severity and frequency of the beatings imo.
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Still, the funniest part of Meri's reaction is that, on the one hand, she's offended by having crimes against women and crimes against animals mentioned in the same breath, thinking that doing so diminishes women. On the other hand, she feels that the crimes against women that were mentioned are trivial next to the crimes against animals.
Not trivial; different. Apples and oranges.
- Ben wasn't convicted; Vick was.
- Brett's wife dropped all charges (because she's an idiot) and they've been in marriage counseling since; the dogs are still dead and had no voice in any of this.
- Piton is an idiot, his wife was cuckolded, but no one was injured or killed; Vick directly lead to the death of dozens of dogs.
Dogs don't really have a voice alive or dead.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 10:14:58 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:46:12 AM
Your disagreement is noted, and dismissed.
Still, the funniest part of Meri's reaction is that, on the one hand, she's offended by having crimes against women and crimes against animals mentioned in the same breath, thinking that doing so diminishes women. On the other hand, she feels that the crimes against women that were mentioned are trivial next to the crimes against animals.
Not trivial; different. Apples and oranges.
- Ben wasn't convicted; Vick was.
- Brett's wife dropped all charges (because she's an idiot) and they've been in marriage counseling since; the dogs are still dead and had no voice in any of this.
- Piton is an idiot, his wife was cuckolded, but no one was injured or killed; Vick directly lead to the death of dozens of dogs.
Causing a human being discomfort is more serious than killing an animal.
Besides, the dogs would never have a voice anyways. Here's a Neil Fact for you: Animals can't speak. They don't have the mouth, tongue or throat equipment for English.
Parrots can speak. Granted, they are rarely dogs, if that's what you were trying to say and failed.
QuoteThe most difficult part of his ordeal, he said, was telling his children what he'd done.
His kids could very well think dog fighting is cool and that he's being unjustly held down by the man. They probably have a gerbil fighting ring going on right now.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 15, 2009, 12:12:40 PM
QuoteThe most difficult part of his ordeal, he said, was telling his children what he'd done.
His kids could very well think dog fighting is cool and that he's being unjustly held down by the man. They probably have a gerbil fighting ring going on right now.
If he's wise he will teach them the real lesson: it's only illegal if you get caught.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 15, 2009, 12:12:40 PM
QuoteThe most difficult part of his ordeal, he said, was telling his children what he'd done.
His kids could very well think dog fighting is cool and that he's being unjustly held down by the man. They probably have a gerbil fighting ring going on right now.
Canary fight club, get with the times.
What I do:
http://www.videoklipp.se/videos/Animerat/Family_Guy_Gladiator_mice
I think it's a poorly written article.
The crap about Reid forgiving Vick was lame. Reid isn't the owner, he may (or may not) have had input to Vick's signing but ultimately it was not his decision. And as Coach, he'd be crazy to say anything negative about a player who could potentially end up being a key figure on the team if McNabb was to get hurt. So, of course he is going to "forgive" Vick and give him a second chance.
The part about the children is crap as well. Vick didn't care about them when he started fighting dogs. Hell, he might even have had them watch it. So, why would it bother Vick now? It didn't bother him when he decided to create the Ron Mexico personae. It didn't bother him when he purposefully gave a woman an STD. I don't think anything bothers Vick except losing all his cash.
Does he deserve a second chance? He has had a second chance. This is more like a third or fourth chance. And, more importantly, this has nothing to do with Vick as a person but with Vick as an athlete. If I get a DWI I lose my job and I don't get a second chance. Why? A lot of people can do my job just as well as I can. Only about 100 people in the World can play Quarterback in the NFL. So, all this BS about his character and how he wants forgiveness is a bunch of crap.
Quote from: Strix on August 15, 2009, 12:40:06 PM
The part about the children is crap as well. Vick didn't care about them when he started fighting dogs. Hell, he might even have had them watch it. So, why would it bother Vick now? It didn't bother him when he decided to create the Ron Mexico personae. It didn't bother him when he purposefully gave a woman an STD. I don't think anything bothers Vick except losing all his cash.
WTF is the "Ron Mexico personae"? Almost all professional athletes, actually all celebrities, use pseudonyms when checking into hotels. Is the more to the "Ron Mexico personae" than that?
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/advocacy_group_decries_petas?utm_source=videoembed
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 09:24:59 AM
Not really. For one thing, funding a dogfighting operation isn't horrific. For another, beating your wife is worse than killing a few dozen dogs.
Running an organized crime ring crossing state lines is a fucking federal crime you dumbshit. Last I checked beating your wife is not running an organized crime ring. Surely you can see a distinction so freaking simple as that. If he didn't want to serve a year in federal prison maybe he shouldn't have broken several major federal laws.
Anyway he is going to get a...what is this? Fourth chance? And he is only a mediocre loser of a QB, I guess Tom Brady could import crack from Columbia while running an international child pornography distribution ring and get suspended for a game or something.
He was not convicted for being mean to dogs, that is where he is fucked in the court of public opinion.
Quote from: sbr on August 15, 2009, 02:32:34 PM
WTF is the "Ron Mexico personae"? Almost all professional athletes, actually all celebrities, use pseudonyms when checking into hotels. Is the more to the "Ron Mexico personae" than that?
Ron Mexico was the pseudonym he used for the STD thing.
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2009, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 15, 2009, 02:32:34 PM
WTF is the "Ron Mexico personae"? Almost all professional athletes, actually all celebrities, use pseudonyms when checking into hotels. Is the more to the "Ron Mexico personae" than that?
Ron Mexico was the pseudonym he used for the STD thing.
Yeah I saw that later on Wiki. :Embarrass:
Ron Mexico sounds like a porno name.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 15, 2009, 04:23:36 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/advocacy_group_decries_petas?utm_source=videoembed
That's great! :lol:
Finally, Obama's brilliant plan to deal with the Federal debt.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/u_s_government_stages_fake_coup
I agree with Valmy and Strix! :o
Quote from: Strix on August 15, 2009, 12:40:06 PM
Does he deserve a second chance? He has had a second chance. This is more like a third or fourth chance. And, more importantly, this has nothing to do with Vick as a person but with Vick as an athlete. If I get a DWI I lose my job and I don't get a second chance. Why? A lot of people can do my job just as well as I can. Only about 100 people in the World can play Quarterback in the NFL. So, all this BS about his character and how he wants forgiveness is a bunch of crap.
I missed this the first time through.
100 people?! I think that number is way to high, based on my years of viewing the NFL there are barely 32 people capable of playing the position in any given year.
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2009, 05:18:47 PM
Running an organized crime ring crossing state lines is a fucking federal crime you dumbshit. Last I checked beating your wife is not running an organized crime ring. Surely you can see a distinction so freaking simple as that. If he didn't want to serve a year in federal prison maybe he shouldn't have broken several major federal laws.
Criminality != immorality.
Besides, dogfighting is a victimless crime. Quit being such a cunt.
Quote from: sbr on August 15, 2009, 10:08:09 PM
Quote from: Strix on August 15, 2009, 12:40:06 PM
Does he deserve a second chance? He has had a second chance. This is more like a third or fourth chance. And, more importantly, this has nothing to do with Vick as a person but with Vick as an athlete. If I get a DWI I lose my job and I don't get a second chance. Why? A lot of people can do my job just as well as I can. Only about 100 people in the World can play Quarterback in the NFL. So, all this BS about his character and how he wants forgiveness is a bunch of crap.
I missed this the first time through.
100 people?! I think that number is way to high, based on my years of viewing the NFL there are barely 32 people capable of playing the position in any given year.
Have you ever actually watched a season of football. I guarantee you that there will be far more than 32 people playing quarterback in the NFL this year.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 10:34:48 PM
Have you ever actually watched a season of football. I guarantee you that there will be far more than 32 people playing quarterback in the NFL this year.
Shit, I remember a Jets game a few years ago when they went through all 3 of their QBs & had to have (punter) Tom Tupa come in since he was the backup.
Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2009, 10:34:48 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 15, 2009, 10:08:09 PM
Quote from: Strix on August 15, 2009, 12:40:06 PM
Does he deserve a second chance? He has had a second chance. This is more like a third or fourth chance. And, more importantly, this has nothing to do with Vick as a person but with Vick as an athlete. If I get a DWI I lose my job and I don't get a second chance. Why? A lot of people can do my job just as well as I can. Only about 100 people in the World can play Quarterback in the NFL. So, all this BS about his character and how he wants forgiveness is a bunch of crap.
I missed this the first time through.
100 people?! I think that number is way to high, based on my years of viewing the NFL there are barely 32 people capable of playing the position in any given year.
Have you ever actually watched a season of football. I guarantee you that there will be far more than 32 people playing quarterback in the NFL this year.
Just because they are on a roster doesn't mean they are capable of playing the position well.
Quote from: sbr on August 16, 2009, 01:21:49 AM
Just because they are on a roster doesn't mean they are capable of playing the position well.
You didn't specify well. Shit, when Jim Sorgi comes in to hand the ball off a couple of times and then kneel down, that's playing QB in the NFL.
Quote from: merithyn on August 15, 2009, 09:10:58 AM
I'm a bit offended by this article. First, he's equated women to dogs. Second, he's singled out situations that are nowhere near as horrific as what Michael Vick did (except for Brett Myers, but the wife dropped all charges and asked that he not be further punished for his actions; not exactly the Phillies' fault). Mind you, Ben Roethlesberger has never been convicted, merely accused. Not sure why he's even on this list.
Poorly written article or poorly held view?
At what point does he equate women to dogs? The only common thread is "mistakes resulting in jail time."
Personally, I think it's a flimsy argument, but I think it's flimsy in that I don't believe that the disappointment of "having to tell your children" comes close to compensating for the penalties he plea bargained his way out of.
Also, whether Andy Reid is a forgiving man or not, it's just another signal that the NFL will only hold its players to standards of conduct until they pump out enough crocodile tears- at a diner discussion on Friday night, one guy at my table was saying, "Unlike some, I believe in second chances," and my reply was, "That would be the second dogfight. He's had plenty of chances, and didn't do anything to stop it before the feds intervened."
I don't care about second chances. However, he can still play, and it's not like dogfighting is a serious crime.
Quote from: Neil on August 16, 2009, 08:23:04 AM
I don't care about second chances. However, he can still play, and it's not like dogfighting is a serious crime.
I'm less concerned about second chances than that, regardless of how well he can play, the NFL should 1) enforce its own rules of conduct much more strongly, and 2) tons of NFL fans are dog owners, so we've got another situation of the NFL trampling the audience, from whom the revenue comes, just so they can get their multi-million-dollar golden boy back on the field.
I'm a dog owner. Let him play. He's paid his debt.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 16, 2009, 08:35:40 AM
I'm a dog owner. Let him play. He's paid his debt.
Your dog disagrees. I hope he pisses in your shoes tomorrow morning.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 16, 2009, 08:52:58 AM
Your dog disagrees.
In that case, she's free to boycott Eagles games. :)
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 16, 2009, 08:32:48 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 16, 2009, 08:23:04 AM
I don't care about second chances. However, he can still play, and it's not like dogfighting is a serious crime.
I'm less concerned about second chances than that, regardless of how well he can play, the NFL should 1) enforce its own rules of conduct much more strongly, and 2) tons of NFL fans are dog owners, so we've got another situation of the NFL trampling the audience, from whom the revenue comes, just so they can get their multi-million-dollar golden boy back on the field.
:lol:
Are you under the impression that the NFL actually cares about Michael Vick or has some vested interest in his success? If the NFL thought for a second that there was an audience to be gained from it, they'd have Michael Vick burned at the stake. However they realize, quite rightly, that they will lose nobody from having Vick in the league. PETA faggots don't watch football (CdM is the exception that proves the rule), and nobody else cares enough to have it affect their lives, apart from partaking in some self-righteousness.
Quote from: Neil on August 16, 2009, 09:06:38 AM
:lol:
Are you under the impression that the NFL actually cares about Michael Vick or has some vested interest in his success? If the NFL thought for a second that there was an audience to be gained from it, they'd have Michael Vick burned at the stake. However they realize, quite rightly, that they will lose nobody from having Vick in the league. PETA faggots don't watch football (CdM is the exception that proves the rule), and nobody else cares enough to have it affect their lives, apart from partaking in some self-righteousness.
Self-righteousness? I just don't like the fact that an asshole convicted felon has 100 times my earnings potential. :contract:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 16, 2009, 09:24:24 AM
Self-righteousness? I just don't like the fact that an asshole convicted felon has 100 times my earnings potential. :contract:
You get too hung up on the felony thing. It's not like he was convicted of a real crime. After all, there are thousands of felons that have substantially more earning potential than you do.
Quote from: Neil on August 16, 2009, 09:46:37 AM
You get too hung up on the felony thing. It's not like he was convicted of a real crime. After all, there are thousands of felons that have substantially more earning potential than you do.
Only because it gets people fired from real jobs.