I'm planning on buying a new PC in the next couple of weeks, and am hoping to spend around $2000-$2500 on it. Does anyone have any online dealers they like or dislike? I've found what I think is a pretty good deal on Alienware, but I remember a few years ago thinking they were overpriced junk, so am a bit surprised.
What should it be able to do? This has little to do with your question but I'm just curious.
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
Hes gay.
Fae, get an apple
What are the specs for a good gaming system now? I am thinking of buying a new one as well.
For that kind of money you should do what I did and get a Mac Pro. :cool:
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
He's probably thinking only of getting one from a manufacturer (hence the Alienware comment), which will have a huge price impact.
I strongly recommend against doing this, Fae, but I've noticed that alot of ppl on Languish are afraid to try building their own PCs and just won't listen. ^_^
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 06:35:31 AM
I strongly recommend against doing this, Fae, but I've noticed that alot of ppl on Languish are afraid to try building their own PCs and just won't listen. ^_^
Time is money.
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 06:35:31 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
He's probably thinking only of getting one from a manufacturer (hence the Alienware comment), which will have a huge price impact.
I strongly recommend against doing this, Fae, but I've noticed that alot of ppl on Languish are afraid to try building their own PCs and just won't listen. ^_^
DGuller's thread should be required reading for anyone thinking of building their own machine for the first time.
As compared to buying a system from a manufacturer ike, say, Apple. I had my Mac Pro running within minutes. :cool:
Building your own machine? You go to a store that sells pre-designed packages that they build from cheap good parts. You don't have to do dick and you get a cheap powerful system.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
I'd have said 1985. A 386 used to go for BIG money.
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 10:57:07 AM
DGuller's thread should be required reading for anyone thinking of building their own machine for the first time.
Meh, in retrospect I'm happy to have gone that route, and I'm one of those people who value their time. Sometimes it was frustrating, but overall it was an interesting challenge.
What I would never, ever do is consider buying anything from HP ever again.
I've actually spent more time uninstalling bloatware from Princesca's new Acer laptop than I would have building a new desktop PC from components. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 07:53:02 AM
I've actually spent more time uninstalling bloatware from Princesca's new Acer laptop than I would have building a new desktop PC from components. :lol:
You know, Apples have literally zero bloatware... :whistle:
Of course not. Why would anyone bother coding an app for the Apple OS? Most businesses enjoy making money. :)
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 10:42:20 AM
Of course not. Why would anyone bother coding an app for the Apple OS? Most businesses enjoy making money. :)
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Mac+OS+developers&meta=&aq=f&oq= (//http://)
58,300,000 hits. -_-
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 10:37:59 AM
You know, Apples have literally zero bloatware... :whistle:
Hey neither did my computer. Bonus: It was probably about 1/4 the price and doesn't say "Apple" anywhere on it. :cool:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 04, 2009, 10:47:16 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 10:37:59 AM
You know, Apples have literally zero bloatware... :whistle:
Hey neither did my computer. Bonus: It was probably about 1/4 the price and doesn't say "Apple" anywhere on it. :cool:
I have some stickers that could take care of that problem. :)
Burger, he'll always have a comback on this subject. Apple is his freaking religion. :huh:
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 10:55:55 AM
I have some stickers that could take care of that problem. :)
Actually, I kinda already screwed that up myself since I have to have iTunes for the phone. So every once in a while, when I sync the thing, the horrible logo and such appears on my screen. :cry:
Edit: And it came with a sticker for some reason.
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 10:57:41 AM
Burger, he'll always have a comback on this subject. Apple is his freaking religion. :huh:
Christianity is my religion. :huh:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 04, 2009, 10:57:47 AM
Edit: And it came with a sticker for some reason.
They're wierd that way. My iPod, and my Mac Pro, came with goofy white Apple logo stickers.
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 11:05:53 AM
They're wierd that way. My iPod, and my Mac Pro, came with goofy white Apple logo stickers.
Why are you surprised? Apple's recent renaissance is entirely due to marketing. Giving you a bunch of dumb stickers = viral marketing.
"Hi, I'd like to be a walking billboard and not get paid for it. Where do I sign up!?" :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 11:07:14 AM
Why are you surprised? Apple's recent renaissance is entirely due to marketing. Giving you a bunch of dumb stickers = viral marketing.
"Hi, I'd like to be a walking billboard and not get paid for it. Where do I sign up!?" :cool:
You'll notice that I still have the stickers to be able to give to MBM :shifty:
I have to disagree it's just about marketing. OS X is, to use your word, OSSUM. OS 9 and prior, not so much.
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 11:07:14 AM
"Hi, I'd like to be a walking billboard and not get paid for it. Where do I sign up!?" :cool:
:lol: You know, I can't find where I tossed the box right now, but I think the sticker(s) that came with it are the same size ones that people put all over their cars. The standard Apple sticker, I guess.
Edit: No really...where's that box...I managed to hang on to the one for my old phone for...more than two years...I lose the iPhone box (with stickers still in it) in a month. I might need to take you up on the offer Beeb, if only to replenish my stock of Apple stickers for whatever reason.
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 07:53:02 AM
I've actually spent more time uninstalling bloatware from Princesca's new Acer laptop than I would have building a new desktop PC from components. :lol:
If you go to parts retailer that also builds their own computers you dont get bloatware. It isnt worth their time to install it.
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 11:07:14 AM
Why are you surprised? Apple's recent renaissance is entirely due to marketing. Giving you a bunch of dumb stickers = viral marketing.
"Hi, I'd like to be a walking billboard and not get paid for it. Where do I sign up!?" :cool:
You'll notice that I still have the stickers to be able to give to MBM :shifty:
Because the Yukon lumberjacks would have beaten you up if you had offered the stickers to them.
Quote from: Syt on August 04, 2009, 11:21:00 AM
Because the Yukon lumberjacks would have beaten you up if you had offered the stickers to them.
We don't have a lumber industry here. It's the miners that would beat me up. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 11:43:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 04, 2009, 11:21:00 AM
Because the Yukon lumberjacks would have beaten you up if you had offered the stickers to them.
We don't have a lumber industry here. It's the miners that would beat me up. :rolleyes:
3rd graders?
Quote from: The Brain on August 04, 2009, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 04, 2009, 11:43:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 04, 2009, 11:21:00 AM
Because the Yukon lumberjacks would have beaten you up if you had offered the stickers to them.
We don't have a lumber industry here. It's the miners that would beat me up. :rolleyes:
3rd graders?
They may have left school after 3rd grade, yes.
Quote from: The Brain on August 04, 2009, 12:55:17 PM3rd graders?
:lol:
Your memory truly is Machiavellian. :menace:
Quote from: Faeelin on August 02, 2009, 12:36:55 PM
I'm planning on buying a new PC in the next couple of weeks, and am hoping to spend around $2000-$2500 on it. Does anyone have any online dealers they like or dislike? I've found what I think is a pretty good deal on Alienware, but I remember a few years ago thinking they were overpriced junk, so am a bit surprised.
Seriously, I would recommend building the computer yourself. You will save a lot of money, and you'll be much more certain of the upgrade potential for the computer. A lot of pre-built systems these days are very physically limited in how much new stuff you can put in them.
Can't you do what I suggested? Or don't you have such places in the third world?
I'd agree with the idea of getting a independent shop to build a system up for you.
The only good thing about a alienware computer is you'll have something pretty in your room and you can show it off to geeks (though they will probably rant at you for not building your own and point out how much cheaper it would be...)
Quote from: Tyr on August 04, 2009, 04:12:14 PM
I'd agree with the idea of getting a independent shop to build a system up for you.
The only good thing about a alienware computer is you'll have something pretty in your room and you can show it off to geeks (though they will probably rant at you for not building your own and point out how much cheaper it would be...)
:yes:
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
:lol:
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
Myeah.
It comes down to how much your time is worth really.
If it was me I'd build my own. I'm not going to blow £30 on getting some guy in the shop to put it together for me. I have plenty of free time anyway.
If it was someone with a decent job and/or a dirth of time though then its really not all that much to pay to save yourself a task.
That is of course if it even does cost extra.
I think in many shops they may give you assembly free (or at least for very little extra) if you're buying the whole system from them.
But anyway, since Faeelin is talking about buying a alienware system I think its a safe assumption he has a fair bit of money.
There are also those of us who enjoy building systems and consider it fun.
If I was born 30 years earlier, I'd probably be working on cars all the time instead of computers.
Quote from: Caliga on August 05, 2009, 11:23:52 AM
There are also those of us who enjoy building systems and consider it fun.
If I was born 30 years earlier, I'd probably be working on cars all the time instead of computers.
True.
Personally I hate it.
I like fiddling around with gadgets and all that sort of thing but when it comes to computers (especially my own) I'm too paranoid I'm going to fuck up and wreck it.
Though it is rather fun to tell lay people you 'built' your computer.
Back at senior school I was regarded as some kind of freaky genius for doing that.
PC components (aside from the CPU) are surprisingly robust. I had a motherboard actually catch fire once from an uninsulated wire that touched something (forget what), and the board worked fine after that for many years, even though a small portion of it was blackened and a little melted. Also, I've bent motherboards hard several times and never had one crack or snap.
I like building computers. Send me parts & I'll build one for any of you guys.
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
Good post.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 05, 2009, 11:39:03 AM
I like building computers. Send me parts & I'll build one for any of you guys.
You ever do a RAID array?
Never tried no.
I should try that, next time I upgrade.
Reason for asking is that I just got a new 1 Tb drive and my old drive is still working nicely (300 Gb), so I was thinking about running some sort of RAID config. I think my options are fairly limited since the drives ain't identical.
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
I've got a cute girl who's offered to put it together for me in return for drinks, so ya'll can suck it.
Though pricing the specs for the compuer I want leads to a weird result; seems like there's only a $100-$200 difference if I have it made...
Quote from: Faeelin on August 05, 2009, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
I've got a cute girl who's offered to put it together for me in return for drinks, so ya'll can suck it.
Though pricing the specs for the compuer I want leads to a weird result; seems like there's only a $100-$200 difference if I have it made...
Jesus, you're not buying the drinks in a bar are you?
Quote from: Faeelin on August 05, 2009, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I think the independent shop is a fine idea, if you're not a real man or are a homosexual.
I've got a cute girl who's offered to put it together for me in return for drinks, so ya'll can suck it.
Though pricing the specs for the compuer I want leads to a weird result; seems like there's only a $100-$200 difference if I have it made...
What are the specs? I just assembled a new computer from NewEgg last month. I had to buy everything but a keyboard and mouse and it was $1500. Unless you play Crysis at max resolution this will be able to run anything at top settings.
Does your school have an MSDN AA with Microsoft? You can probably get a 64-bit Windows OS from there and save $100.
Here's the tower I put together. https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=9613051 (https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=9613051)
:huh: I don't think you can share your wishlist with others.
You can but you have to make it public.
Quote from: Caliga on August 06, 2009, 08:42:03 AM
:huh: I don't think you can share your wishlist with others.
Whoops. The list was public but I made it so long ago it doesn't show up. Here's the specs:
Quote
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
$109.99
EVGA E758-A1 3-Way SLI (x16/x16/x8) LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
$299.99
EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
$239.99
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
$119.99
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920
$279.99
OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK
$99.99
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
$84.99
Acer X233Hbid Black 23" 5ms HDMI Full 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor
$179.99
SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support
$28.99
XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler
$44.98
Subtotal: $1,488.89
:mmm:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
Makes it more awesome.
All of the cases in my house are CoolerMaster Cavaliers. Great cases that I think are no longer manufactured, but I keep reusing them for each system build.
Hey Caliga, what kind of raid you want? For speed or for back up?
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 06, 2009, 08:59:52 AM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
Makes it more awesome.
The tower I bought has great air flow but its a tight fit. In hindsight I probably should have gone with a larger case like that.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 06, 2009, 09:05:17 AM
Hey Caliga, what kind of raid you want? For speed or for back up?
If I have to choose, I choose backup.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
evidently, he'll get more than decent :P
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 10:57:07 AM
DGuller's thread should be required reading for anyone thinking of building their own machine for the first time.
As compared to buying a system from a manufacturer ike, say, Apple. I had my Mac Pro running within minutes. :cool:
Choose components.
Have them delivered to your place.
Pay 65$ to have them assembled.
Install Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit, wich takes about 5 minutes of user interactive time while the rest is done by itself with no used input.
Download and install latest drivers: about 30 minutes.
Save 1000$. Get your computer up&running in minutes ;)
Of course, there are always people who are afraid of breaking something, so they'll want to pay 1000$ for nothing, but hey, it's their money.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 05, 2009, 01:50:54 PM
Never tried no.
I should try that, next time I upgrade.
It's not worth the hassle.
The gain in speed is negligeable.
Yeah, I was looking it up & I think I remembered why I never bothered.
Well, I've got the new hard drive in and am formatting it now.
Question: Can I install Vista on the new HDD and then just copy shit over from the old one at my leisure? Will MS balk at two instances of Vista with the same key on the same PC?
Quote from: Caliga on August 06, 2009, 09:06:20 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 06, 2009, 09:05:17 AM
Hey Caliga, what kind of raid you want? For speed or for back up?
If I have to choose, I choose backup.
RAID 0+1 will give you both, but as I said, it's not worth it. And it's not really a backup.
RAID 1 will copy your data on a second hard drive so that if one fails, you still have a copy on the other one. However, you can't operate with just one hard drive, you need another replacement before restarting your system, and then you need to rebuild the RAID array.
RAID 0 will give you extra speed by splitting the data accross 2 hdds and having them work concurrently. So when you write&read data to your hdd, instead of loading one big file, it's as if you were loading 2 small files. That's for theory. In practice, you'd never get 2x the speed. Maybe gain at most 5% more speed, in the best possible conditions (moving large chunks of data, like one of those gigantic blu-ray ripped porn movies :P ).
The inconvenient is that if one drive fails, you lose everything. You will have to reformat your new hard drive and the old one before you can rebuild a RAID array.
RAID 0+1 gives you the best of both world for 4x the price of one HDD as you now need 4 identical HDDs (ideally) to operate your system, but still, if one fail, you'll have to format everything.
Everyone makes the same mistake of thinking RAID 1 is backup, but RAID is not backup. It does not replace backup. It can be used as a complement to backup.
For the forum server, RAID can be useful, but for a gaming/any personal computer I don't recommend it, based on personal experience and past misconceptions...
Yeah, I was just kinda idly musing on the RAID thing.
Should be fine Caliga re: Vista.
I multi-boot XP-Vista-7 in both 32 & 64 bits on the same system at work.
I figured it prolly would be, but doesn't Micro$oft track your hardware changes and if you make too many changes with the same license, require you to call in or some other such annoying junk?
Otherwise, it's not like both copies can run simultaneously.
I think it's all about the Mobo.
Yeah, that makes sense. :yes:
ARGH, why didn't I just do a quick format on this new HDD? I always forget to do it that way.
5h Format sucks, eh?
Well, it's 42% done and been going about an hour.
Quote from: The Brain on August 06, 2009, 03:00:04 AM
Jesus, you're not buying the drinks in a bar are you?
Course I am. She just turned 21 :cheers:
Quote from: Faeelin on August 06, 2009, 10:56:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 06, 2009, 03:00:04 AM
Jesus, you're not buying the drinks in a bar are you?
Course I am. She just turned 21 :cheers:
:bleeding: Make them yourself in your home if you're a man.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
evidently, he'll get more than decent :P
Or a Mac.
Quote from: Caliga on August 06, 2009, 07:22:43 PM
Yeah, I was just kinda idly musing on the RAID thing.
RAID really only works well when you have a separate RAID controller. You can run it off your main processor, but all you are really doing is sucking up system resources to support a useless feature.
If you are going RAID, get the separate controller and go RAID 5 on three 1TB disks. If you are not running a server, though, this is way overkill.
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 06:35:31 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
2500$?
Dude, this isnt 2001 anymore, a decent gaming computer is barely 1k$.
He's probably thinking only of getting one from a manufacturer (hence the Alienware comment), which will have a huge price impact.
I strongly recommend against doing this, Fae, but I've noticed that alot of ppl on Languish are afraid to try building their own PCs and just won't listen. ^_^
I'm building one. :)
I'm getting Korea a new laptop, as well, but don't think I could build that, so I'm getting a manufacturer one (probably an HP as I'm rather tired of my Dells breaking). Just as a comparison, I was looking at some HP desktops, and while on the surface they have some relatively good deals, they do their level best to rip you right the fuck off.
My favorite example--charging $200
on top of the "included in price" crap video card for a reasonably powerful/advanced 1GB GTS 250--a card I can buy off the shelf for roughly $145. So basically you're paying, give or take
, $250-300 for a $145 GPU. I mean, Christ, okay, I could see $20, 30 maybe even $50 extra, and rationalize it as the price of installation or even a little extra profit for HP's shareholders. But $105-155 is Goddamn highway robbery (And there is, of course, no option to simply leave the card out, and buy your own--although insanely you'd still save a few slim bucks even if you got the lame card and then replaced it immediately with a card you bought independently. :face: )
As another, more obviously bad if not quite as extreme, example, a 1TB HD add-on is $150.00 extra. So you wind up paying roughly $200-250 for a Goddamn $90 piece of equipment.
Quote from: Caliga on August 05, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
PC components (aside from the CPU) are surprisingly robust. I had a motherboard actually catch fire once from an uninsulated wire that touched something (forget what), and the board worked fine after that for many years, even though a small portion of it was blackened and a little melted. Also, I've bent motherboards hard several times and never had one crack or snap.
Quit smoking your employees' bribe-weed over open computers, dude.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 09, 2009, 07:37:36 PM
I'm building one. :)
I'm getting Korea a new laptop, as well, but don't think I could build that, so I'm getting a manufacturer one (probably an HP as I'm rather tired of my Dells breaking). Just as a comparison, I was looking at some HP desktops, and while on the surface they have some relatively good deals, they do their level best to rip you right the fuck off.
My favorite example--charging $200 on top of the "included in price" crap video card for a reasonably powerful/advanced 1GB GTS 250--a card I can buy off the shelf for roughly $145. So basically you're paying, give or take, $250-300 for a $145 GPU. I mean, Christ, okay, I could see $20, 30 maybe even $50 extra, and rationalize it as the price of installation or even a little extra profit for HP's shareholders. But $105-155 is Goddamn highway robbery (And there is, of course, no option to simply leave the card out, and buy your own--although insanely you'd still save a few slim bucks even if you got the lame card and then replaced it immediately with a card you bought independently. :face: )
As another, more obviously bad if not quite as extreme, example, a 1TB HD add-on is $150.00 extra. So you wind up paying roughly $200-250 for a Goddamn $90 piece of equipment.
You better fucking not buy an HP. :ultra: As for video cards, I agree that it's a rip off, but be careful when buying a brand name with a clunker card, with plans to upgrade on your own. Brand name desktops these days are usually very tightly packed, with very little actual room for expansion, and very marginal power. In a way I'm actually glad that my HP desktop was a lemon, because there was no way I would be able to jam either new power supply or GTX 285 into it in any way.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
RAID 1 will copy your data on a second hard drive so that if one fails, you still have a copy on the other one. However, you can't operate with just one hard drive, you need another replacement before restarting your system, and then you need to rebuild the RAID array.
With a good controller its possible for a RAID 1 populated with 4 or more disks to rebuild the RAID and continue operation in the event of a single-drive failure, as long as the RAID has more free space than the size of the failed drive. RAID 1 with only two disks only makes sense if you are absolutely paranoid about data loss or too lazy to do regular tape dumps.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:18:00 PMRAID 0 will give you extra speed by splitting the data accross 2 hdds and having them work concurrently. So when you write&read data to your hdd, instead of loading one big file, it's as if you were loading 2 small files. That's for theory. In practice, you'd never get 2x the speed. Maybe gain at most 5% more speed, in the best possible conditions (moving large chunks of data, like one of those gigantic blu-ray ripped porn movies :P ).
As grumbler pointed out, this is highly dependent on what is acting as the RAID controller. Windows software RAIDs are damn near worthless, as are many RAID controllers on consumer-grade motherboards. The Linux kernel's Logical Volume Manager, however, is a very effective software RAID. With the proper filesystem and drives that properly support RAIDs I've seen LVM get 70% or more of the theoretical maximum transfer rate out of each drive channel.
That's another thing, the drives. Many consumer-grade drives don't really support RAID configurations. You have to make sure the drives actually support being placed in a RAID in order to get the performance benefits.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:18:00 PMThe inconvenient is that if one drive fails, you lose everything. You will have to reformat your new hard drive and the old one before you can rebuild a RAID array.
RAID 0+1 gives you the best of both world for 4x the price of one HDD as you now need 4 identical HDDs (ideally) to operate your system, but still, if one fail, you'll have to format everything.
Again, this is controller-dependent. A good controller will rebuild the RAID pack automatically when the new drive is inserted, and may try to do so with the remaining available space. As long as a RAID is mirrored, it can be rebuilt.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:18:00 PMEveryone makes the same mistake of thinking RAID 1 is backup, but RAID is not backup. It does not replace backup. It can be used as a complement to backup.
Backup against drive failure is the whole point of RAID mirroring.
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:18:00 PMFor the forum server, RAID can be useful, but for a gaming/any personal computer I don't recommend it, based on personal experience and past misconceptions...
I still agree with this statement, but because the striping and mirroring properties of RAID are useless for gaming and most home applications, even at full performance. The 300MB/s theoretical transfer rate of SATA II is good enough for any current home applications. The only home application I can see for RAID is the Just a Bunch Of Disks (JBOD) configuration, since this allows multiple hard drives to be configured as one. I have LVM on the server configured this way, even though there is only one drive right now, so I can add drives without rebuilding the filesystems.
Quote from: DGuller on August 09, 2009, 10:38:24 PM
You better fucking not buy an HP. :ultra: As for video cards, I agree that it's a rip off, but be careful when buying a brand name with a clunker card, with plans to upgrade on your own. Brand name desktops these days are usually very tightly packed, with very little actual room for expansion, and very marginal power. In a way I'm actually glad that my HP desktop was a lemon, because there was no way I would be able to jam either new power supply or GTX 285 into it in any way.
I've actually found a Toshiba I like better, with a nice mid-range Intel Core 2 Duo P8700, 4MB of RAM, a 1GB Radeon 4650 video card, and apparently a free copy of MS Office. :) It's a bit less than $1100--I
think this is pretty reasonable, but don't mind being corrected.
I'm definitely not getting any HP tower. A little research further revealed some indications that their stock PSUs are not really enough to properly, if at all, run the shit they could theoretically and exorbitantly come with. Replacing a GPU and PSU inside a tiny, thermally problematic case is not my idea of fun. Additionally, I want to actually build the PC, as a learning experience/fun thing to do. :)
So far what I've come up with for the fair dinkum thinkum is this:
Case: Azzo Solano 1000
Apparently the damn thing's gigantic and made of fans and holes for fans. With my current the GPU running at 68C idle (and 80C should I be so presumptuous as to watch a Goddamn avi :rolleyes:), I've decided that henceforth I should be sensitive to the thermal properties of a case. I want this new system to last a long time. $120.
PSU: Corsair TX650W. I could go with a 700 or 750W device, but I suspect that's overkill. $120.
CPU: Intel i7-920 2.66GHz. Significant improvement over the processor in my current setup, if not as ridiculously and unnecessarily so as I might prefer. I would very much like to get a 3GHz 940 instead, but 1)know damned well I don't really need it and 2)don't want to pay for it. $279.
Motherboard: ECS Black Series X58. I don't know very much about boards, and chose this one, aside from the obvious reason that it is a i7-compatible X58-type board, because it offered 6 memory slots, integrated networking stuff, and fails to be very expensive. I am open to suggestion here, and am still researching the matter. As I said, I wish this system to persist for a very long time, and I understand a quality motherboard is essential to achieving that goal. $210.
Memory: 6GB OCZ 3 x 2GB 240-pin DDR3-1600 SDRAM. I believe this will have no issue with my selected motherboard, but if I am blithely ignoring something--like frequency--please tell me. $113 (I believe this might have been a sale, and subject to vary, however).
GPU: Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 4870 Vapor-X 2GB. Almost certainly more than I will immediately need, this video card has 16 times the dedicated memory of my current one. :xd: It's actually likely to be even more superior than that simple metric would indicate, due to the vast gulf in time and methods between their manufacture. For example, the Geforce 8300POS currently in my possession still uses DDR2 memory. That may or may not be on fire. This brings me to what surely appears as the most gimmicky aspect of the new card, the Vapor-X cooling thing. I've read a number of reviews that suggest that it really-really-works, however, and keeps the thing quite cold, extending the lifespan of the device. Finally, it has HDMI connectivity with integrated audio whatevers, a major selling point for me. $200. Note: I could get the 1GB for $150, and am not completely sold on the 2GB model, which has been intimated to not add much to performance. It is possible that my desire for the 2GB card is driven primarily by a frankly irrational urge to see the desktop strongly outcompete the laptop in every category.
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Green 7200rpm 1TB. Cool. Believe it or not, I looked at SSDs, but as you might imagine very quickly retreated. I rather wanted one for the laptop, however. Their prices have not fallen as quickly as I'd hoped. :( I'll be cannibalizing the current system for its rather new 750GB drive, as well. $85.
Optical: LG BD-RW. Besides providing me with an extra blu-ray player--a decidedly marginal value since I have a dedicated unit to do that--a blu-ray burner will permit shitloads of space-efficient backup. Additionally, a vague idea is forming in my mind of buying my parents an HDTV and throwing in the redundant blu-ray player for Christmas. This will largely depend upon my sister's desire for participation, as I am in no wise spending ~$700 on my parents' presents. $150.
Software: This is a Goddamn pickle. If I buy from a manufacturer, I get a Windows 7 upgrade free. But if I actually buy Vista, I don't get shit. Options are as follows--1) never get Windows 7 and use Vista 64 till the day my computer dies; 2)wait till October 22 to build my computer, purchase Windows 7; 3)buy Vista and then buy Windows 7, which I call the "retarded option"; 4)use a free OS, some Linux bullshit, and complain for the rest of my life about how I can't get anything to work remotely correctly; 5)use a free OS, then buy Windows 7 on 10/22.
Option Four has the advantage of possibly never costing me anything, and the disadvantage of raising the spectre of preventing major applications like Photoshop CS3 or any game made ever from running period, and, even more insidiously, potentially turning me into vonmoltke. In all likelihood, I will choose Option One, although that is by far the least fun of them all because it involves waiting.
Total as it stands with parts above is $1287, with costs likely increasing to roughly $1400, depending on my OS solution. I think that's pretty okay.
I don't think there's anything I'm forgetting (obviously I need thermal compound and SATA shit, but besides that, I believe I've covered all my bases).
I think it's a pretty good system. I'm open to suggestions on all points, however.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2009, 04:56:09 AMHDD: Western Digital Caviar Green 7200rpm 1TB. Cool. Believe it or not, I looked at SSDs, but as you might imagine very quickly retreated. I rather wanted one for the laptop, however. Their prices have not fallen as quickly as I'd hoped. :($90.
This is exactly the model I just put in my desktop and I'm extremely impressed with it so far.
Quote from: Caliga on August 10, 2009, 05:00:28 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2009, 04:56:09 AMHDD: Western Digital Caviar Green 7200rpm 1TB. Cool. Believe it or not, I looked at SSDs, but as you might imagine very quickly retreated. I rather wanted one for the laptop, however. Their prices have not fallen as quickly as I'd hoped. :($90.
This is exactly the model I just put in my desktop and I'm extremely impressed with it so far.
It's very cheap--I'm always amazed by the price of HDD storage. I sort of feel hosed on the 750GB drive I bought, as it was actually a few bucks more expensive than the 1TB. But at the end of the day, they were both about as cheap as the metal they're made of. If only SSDs were as cheap as what they're made of--as you might imagine, I was particularly interested in their impact-resistant technologies for Korea's new laptop. :face:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2009, 04:56:09 AM
Motherboard: ECS Black Series X58. I don't know very much about boards, and chose this one, aside from the obvious reason that it is a i7-compatible X58-type board, because it offered 6 memory slots, integrated networking stuff, and fails to be very expensive. I am open to suggestion here, and am still researching the matter. As I said, I wish this system to persist for a very long time, and I understand a quality motherboard is essential to achieving that goal. $210.
That describes any Nehalem board. The Nehalem chips have three integrated memory controllers supporting triple-channel memory, so all the boards will have 6 or 9 slots per processor socket (Nehalem Xeon memory is a more complicated thing). This affects the choice below, as well.
For the motherboard, go with one of the eVGA, Asus, or Gigabyte boards. There are several at the price point of that ECS board, with the added bonus that they aren't ECS boards.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2009, 04:56:09 AM
Memory: 6GB OCZ 3 x 2GB 240-pin DDR3-1600 SDRAM. I believe this will have no issue with my selected motherboard, but if I am blithely ignoring something--like frequency--please tell me. $113 (I believe this might have been a sale, and subject to vary, however).
That memory is too fast for the chip you picked. Officially, the 920 doesn't support memory faster than 1066MHz. If you go for something like the OCZ Gold 3x2GB 1600MHz, though, you really aren't paying more than you would for good 1066MHz memory anyway.
There are more memory issues with the Nehalems that require me to consult some documentation I have at work in order to address, so I'll update that later.
As for the Windows question, I was able to buy Vista 64 with a free upgrade to Windows 7, just like you would with a brand name PC. I'm not sure if Newegg still offers it.
EDIT: Here it is. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116677
Quote from: vonmoltke on August 10, 2009, 07:52:41 AM
That describes any Nehalem board. The Nehalem chips have three integrated memory controllers supporting triple-channel memory, so all the boards will have 6 or 9 slots per processor socket (Nehalem Xeon memory is a more complicated thing). This affects the choice below, as well.
I could've sworn I saw ones with only three slots. I must've been reading them wrong (3 X PCI-E slots, maybe.) :blink: Either way, this makes a lot more sense.
Aha--I did find
one with a different number. Intel's own DX58SO has four, which is baffling. I don't understand this.
QuoteFor the motherboard, go with one of the eVGA, Asus, or Gigabyte boards. There are several at the price point of that ECS board, with the added bonus that they aren't ECS boards.
You got it. Is the Gigabyte UD-4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128374) decent? 1333 seems to be the memory standard (with support for overclocking that I won't be doing), and although it's potentially hype, the thermal and power efficiency aspects of the board appeal to me.
QuoteThat memory is too fast for the chip you picked. Officially, the 920 doesn't support memory faster than 1066MHz. If you go for something like the OCZ Gold 3x2GB 1600MHz, though, you really aren't paying more than you would for good 1066MHz memory anyway.
After looking it up, the 920 FSB runs at 1333MHz, and this is the speed the memory should run at as well, I think. Also, I take it OCZ isn't "good"? :unsure: I'm not married to it--does memory vary enough by manufacturer to make a difference?
QuoteThere are more memory issues with the Nehalems that require me to consult some documentation I have at work in order to address, so I'll update that later.
:) Cool, let me know. Thanks for your help, W. :hug:
Quote from: DGullerAs for the Windows question, I was able to buy Vista 64 with a free upgrade to Windows 7, just like you would with a brand name PC. I'm not sure if Newegg still offers it.
EDIT: Here it is. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116677
Very awsome, DG. I googled the heck out of it, but all I got were links to Microsoft's "keep manufacturers from losing six months of sales" partnership programs. Never bothered looking on Newegg. I am: poor searcher.
I think I'll be going with Option Six now, having my cake and eating it too. :hug:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AM
After looking it up, the 920 FSB runs at 1333MHz, and this is the speed the memory should run at as well, I think. Also, I take it OCZ isn't "good"? :unsure: I'm not married to it--does memory vary enough by manufacturer to make a difference?
People say it does matter, but I don't think it matters any more than with any other component manufacturers. There is always a cheapo brand or two that does truly suck, but most of the other manufacturers are about the same in quality.
I think the most important component is the motherboard, and that's the only one where I am fairly selective with manufacturers--all of my motherboards ever have been ASUS except for one DFI board I bought about 6 years ago because it was an absolute steal at the time (and it did turn out to be a great board).
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AM
I could've sworn I saw ones with only three slots. I must've been reading them wrong (3 X PCI-E slots, maybe.) :blink: Either way, this makes a lot more sense.
Aha--I did find one with a different number. Intel's own DX58SO has four, which is baffling. I don't understand this.
That board was Intel's reference design at launch. I have no idea why they only put four slots on there. The technical documentation indicates it only supports 16GB of addressable memory; I don't know why this is, either.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AMYou got it. Is the Gigabyte UD-4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128374) decent? 1333 seems to be the memory standard (with support for overclocking that I won't be doing), and although it's potentially hype, the thermal and power efficiency aspects of the board appeal to me.
That board is fine.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AMAfter looking it up, the 920 FSB runs at 1333MHz, and this is the speed the memory should run at as well, I think. Also, I take it OCZ isn't "good"? :unsure: I'm not married to it--does memory vary enough by manufacturer to make a difference?
OCZ memory is certainly good; I use it. That's why I pointed out those particular sticks.
The current i7 chips (except the ridiculously overpriced "Extreme" chips) don't officially support memory speeds higher than 1066MHz or Quickpath throughputs higher than 4.8GT/s. Several motherboard manufacturers have figured out how to unlock the 1333MHz clock, but it isn't "official".
As for the memory topology, I couldn't find the document I was looking for, but I found enough other documentation to jog my memory. The i7 has three memory channels and supports two DIMMs on each channel. (Note: I get specific terminology mixed up when talking about Intel's products, as they aren't very clear in some cases. I have seen the memory channels referred to as if each had its own controller, and I have seen them referred to as a single controller. I can't confirm which is correct.) If the i7 Bloomfield cores work the same way as the Xeon Gainestown cores, adding DIMMs to each channel drops the memory bus speed. In your case you weould get full speed, but if you added a second rank of memory to the board it may drop the bus speed.
IIRC I have only used OCZ, Crucial, Corsair, and Patriot. I did send a defective stick back once but I forget which of those brands it was.
Quote from: vonmoltke on August 10, 2009, 12:38:01 AM
I still agree with this statement, but because the striping and mirroring properties of RAID are useless for gaming and most home applications, even at full performance. The 300MB/s theoretical transfer rate of SATA II is good enough for any current home applications. The only home application I can see for RAID is the Just a Bunch Of Disks (JBOD) configuration, since this allows multiple hard drives to be configured as one. I have LVM on the server configured this way, even though there is only one drive right now, so I can add drives without rebuilding the filesystems.
yes, as I said, I was referring to personal computers where it's near worthless. Who's gonna invest in 4 HDDs at home, under Linux to get the best possible performance from Firefox? ;)
Definitely don't buy memory from G.SKILL, they sent me one dead stick. OCZ memory seems fine.
Quote from: vonmoltke on August 11, 2009, 07:50:04 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AM
I could've sworn I saw ones with only three slots. I must've been reading them wrong (3 X PCI-E slots, maybe.) :blink: Either way, this makes a lot more sense.
Aha--I did find one with a different number. Intel's own DX58SO has four, which is baffling. I don't understand this.
That board was Intel's reference design at launch. I have no idea why they only put four slots on there. The technical documentation indicates it only supports 16GB of addressable memory; I don't know why this is, either.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AMYou got it. Is the Gigabyte UD-4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128374) decent? 1333 seems to be the memory standard (with support for overclocking that I won't be doing), and although it's potentially hype, the thermal and power efficiency aspects of the board appeal to me.
That board is fine.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 04:12:37 AMAfter looking it up, the 920 FSB runs at 1333MHz, and this is the speed the memory should run at as well, I think. Also, I take it OCZ isn't "good"? :unsure: I'm not married to it--does memory vary enough by manufacturer to make a difference?
OCZ memory is certainly good; I use it. That's why I pointed out those particular sticks.
The current i7 chips (except the ridiculously overpriced "Extreme" chips) don't officially support memory speeds higher than 1066MHz or Quickpath throughputs higher than 4.8GT/s. Several motherboard manufacturers have figured out how to unlock the 1333MHz clock, but it isn't "official".
As for the memory topology, I couldn't find the document I was looking for, but I found enough other documentation to jog my memory. The i7 has three memory channels and supports two DIMMs on each channel. (Note: I get specific terminology mixed up when talking about Intel's products, as they aren't very clear in some cases. I have seen the memory channels referred to as if each had its own controller, and I have seen them referred to as a single controller. I can't confirm which is correct.) If the i7 Bloomfield cores work the same way as the Xeon Gainestown cores, adding DIMMs to each channel drops the memory bus speed. In your case you weould get full speed, but if you added a second rank of memory to the board it may drop the bus speed.
Yes, you're right. I think I saw the socket number when I first woke up, read it wrong, and then attributed the bus speed to it. :frusty: :lol:
Now, I understand that the CPU will downclock 1333 memory to 1066 just fine, and I could, if I so chose, increase the memory multiplier from 8 to 10 to get it working at 1333 (as you say, "unofficially"). I probably wouldn't choose to do that since I suspect there are negatives, particularly regarding lifespan, but I guess it's nice to have the option.
About the OCZ memory--I believe the voltage is too high for that Gigabyte board, and few OCZ modules are listed on Gig's website as compatible--the 1333 one that is comes up as dual-channel, although I wasn't aware that was something built into the memory. :unsure:
At any rate, I've found a Asus board (PT6 SE) for $190 after rebate that will work just as well. It too says it runs with 1.5v memory, but that's a very nifty price. I've found a Corsair 6B kit instead, slightly more expensive than the latest OCZ one I was looking at ($110 after rebate vs. $100 upfront). Combined with the Asus board that makes a $60 net saving--also, the Corsair modules are 2GB instead of 1, meaning that, should I so desire, I could easily double up and get
12GB of RAM (out of the mind-bogglingly unnecessary maximum of 24, using 4GB modules :blink: ).
Added bonus!: stumbling around on Corsair's website, their PSU configurator told me I was going overboard with a 650W power supply, and even when I input counterfactual system compositions--four hard drives, 2 video cards, and overclocked CPU--recommended a 520W supply, which I can have, minus rebate, for $90, for savings of $30 on the original plan. I presume they're right--logic dictates that, if anything, Corsair would err on the side of
overestimating your power needs, since they'd want you to buy the most expensive PSU they can sell you, right?
Finally, apropos of nothing, WTF is the deal with every motherboard manufacturer on the planet employing website writers with the English skills of Borat? "Due to massive memory on the market, we can only verify some of them." I know they're foreign, but still.
Rock solid. HEART TOUCHING.
Reminds me, what the fuck is that "Asus heartbeat" all about, anyway? Maybe I'm missing something, but do I need LED lights on my motherboard informing me of a successful boot? Am I Superman? Is my case made of glass? Do I not own a monitor?
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:13:24 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but do I need LED lights on my motherboard informing me of a successful boot?
They're helpful when the system doesn't boot, because some motherfuckers sold you a defective RAM chip.
Quote from: DGuller on August 11, 2009, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:13:24 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but do I need LED lights on my motherboard informing me of a successful boot?
They're helpful when the system doesn't boot, because some motherfuckers sold you a defective RAM chip.
:lol: No RAM from G. Skill, then. They have a stupid name, which would have put me off anyway.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:13:24 PM
Reminds me, what the fuck is that "Asus heartbeat" all about, anyway? Maybe I'm missing something, but do I need LED lights on my motherboard informing me of a successful boot? Am I Superman? Is my case made of glass? Do I not own a monitor?
My ASUS board has a thing that shows through the back of the case with little code phrases telling you everything is cool, or not as the case may be, e.g. "CPU INIT".
Quote from: Caliga on August 12, 2009, 05:42:10 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:13:24 PM
Reminds me, what the fuck is that "Asus heartbeat" all about, anyway? Maybe I'm missing something, but do I need LED lights on my motherboard informing me of a successful boot? Am I Superman? Is my case made of glass? Do I not own a monitor?
My ASUS board has a thing that shows through the back of the case with little code phrases telling you everything is cool, or not as the case may be, e.g. "CPU INIT".
Ah so. The description made it sound like Laser Floyd at the CPU.
:lol:
It's just a teeny blue LED panel.
After Dguller's misfortune, I broke down and ordered a comp with a two year warranty.
Quote from: Faeelin on August 24, 2009, 10:28:55 AM
After Dguller's misfortune, I broke down and ordered a comp with a two year warranty.
OK, don't panic, I'm sure you can still return it.
Seriously, my misfortune turned out to be a kind of hardware incompatibility that could happen to any system. It had more to do with the reverse Midas touch that I seem to possess when dealing with computers, rather than the con of building own system.
All my stuff should be coming today. :)
What'd you end up getting, Faeelin? I'm happy that I'm getting exactly what I want, but I wonder if I actually saved any money...
Quote from: Ideologue on August 24, 2009, 11:19:37 AM
All my stuff should be coming today. :)
What'd you end up getting, Faeelin? I'm happy that I'm getting exactly what I want, but I wonder if I actually saved any money...
When you think about whether you saved money, it helps to think of less tangible benefits. Stuff like more space inside the case, more upgrade options, more power from PSU, all that is worth something, but not easy to put a price on.
Its depressing how much cheaper you can buy your components over there.... :(
All my shit is here. :o
Quote from: Ideologue on August 24, 2009, 04:08:03 PM
All my shit is here. :o
Good luck. Start a thread so we can all be amused.
Stats:
Processor Intel Core i7 Extreme 965(3.2GHz)
Memory 12GB DDR3
Hard Drive 1TB SATA 7200RPM
Optical Drive 1 SuperMulti, Double Layer DVD±RW, DVD-RAM
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 1GB Installed Video Memory
Audio High-definition audio with 7.1-channel audio support
Ethernet Gigabit Ethernet LAN
Power Supply 750W
I paid $2100 for it.
Your HD is holding you back. Get a quicker one.
*sigh*
Maybe next year...
Also, I hope I never have to remove that Caviar Green HDD, because a screw just tore itself part, leaving a bar inside the HDD cage and a top on my screwdriver. That's not normal, is it? :(
Seriously, I cannot immediately think of anyway to ever get that out short of sawing open the cage.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 25, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Also, I hope I never have to remove that Caviar Green HDD, because a screw just tore itself part, leaving a bar inside the HDD cage and a top on my screwdriver. That's not normal, is it? :(
Seriously, I cannot immediately think of anyway to ever get that out short of sawing open the cage.
You mean the headless part of the screw is inside both the hard drive and the hole in the cage?
Quote from: DGuller on August 25, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
You mean the headless part of the screw is inside both the hard drive and the hole in the cage?
Not everything is a metaphor for a penis DG.
Quote from: DGuller on August 25, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 25, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Also, I hope I never have to remove that Caviar Green HDD, because a screw just tore itself part, leaving a bar inside the HDD cage and a top on my screwdriver. That's not normal, is it? :(
Seriously, I cannot immediately think of anyway to ever get that out short of sawing open the cage.
You mean the headless part of the screw is inside both the hard drive and the hole in the cage?
Da. It's just a bar with threads. Can I at least presume it'll hold it in there? At the end of the day, I have space for seven more HDDS--as long as it won't rattle, I can just use the other seven bays in the eventuality that it blows up.
How the fuck did I tear a piece of metal apart, anyway? It was still moving when I was turning the screwdriver, right before it surprised me by getting immediately much looser. <_< I thought HD screws were supposed to go in real tight--I guess I took that too far? :(
On the plus side, I haven't dropped anything yet, despite a great opportunity earlier to destroy the motherboard, the CPU, fan, and memory all in one go. SATA cables get really stuck in there.
I will add that it is very gratifying, if puzzling, that my cats have shown absolutely no interest whatsoever in the bonanza of dangly things hanging out of the case. I thought I'd have to lock them up, but they really do not give a shit. Of course, these are the same creatures that try to jump at light cords about three feet two tall for them to reach and have little to no nutritional value, and think it's the highest form of entertainment to watch a human being urinate, so maybe I shouldn't presume to know what interests them.
Okay, I cannot figure out how to put this video card in. I know it's supposed to be simple, but the card (Sapphire Radeon 4890 Vapor-X) will either not:
1)go all the way into the PCIe slot; OR
2)goes all the way into the PCIe slot, but the metal hook on the back will not go flush with the case, and hence cannot be screwed in, and hence any attempt to leave it stationary depends entirely on the strength of a plastic PCIe slot that I might have already broken.
To figure this out, I need to know if the PCIe connection on the card is supposed to be entirely flush with the PCIe slot, i.e. no golden connectors peeking out.
Also, they are supposed to go in upside (heatsink/fan) down, right?
Any help's appreciated--the GPU is the last thing I need to do, other than tidying up cables and plugging fans in and so forth.
If I recall correctly, and I may not be, PCIe cards have a "hook" at the end of the connector strip. Before you can seat the card, you need to hook the card. I'm not sure if you've done that or not. They definitely need to be all the way in.
Thanks DG, that's probably it. :face:
They have some sort of a plastic thing, the purpose of which eluded me--I thought maybe it was like the white things on the end of memory slots.
It would help a lot if the manual had pictures, or at least a description of the installation process more detailed than "plug it in."
Seriously, quote:
Quote from: Sapphire1 Locate the slot; insert the card firmly into the PCI-Express/AGP/PCI slot
The "PCIe/AGP/PCI slot" bit gives you an idea how vague every single manual I've gotten is (except the MB manual, which is detailed in many areas but only goes so far as to tell me where my PCIe slots are). The worst is the case manual, which uses some kind of foreign grammar and the phrase "please open both side panels before intally." Shit, I always do things intally, you don't have to tell me.
You have nothing to complain about, at least your manual seems to have at least one sentence without a spelling mistake.
Quote from: DGuller on August 25, 2009, 06:57:56 PM
If I recall correctly, and I may not be, PCIe cards have a "hook" at the end of the connector strip. Before you can seat the card, you need to hook the card. I'm not sure if you've done that or not. They definitely need to be all the way in.
:yes:
I think my case actually may have been mismanufactured... I had to break a piece off the mesh faceplate to get the DVD drive in. The screw-off pieces were actually in front of the hard drives cages, each of which includes a fan. I am certainly willing to think that I fucked something up, but I cannot understand why there would be a need easily-removeable pieces in front of the fan (neither of which actually fully uncover the fan) over of in my optical drive bays.
Especially given that, due to their shitty screw(s) and/or my apparent Thor-like strength, my HDD will still be in there long after I pass from this mortal coil.
You do in fact have to do that with some cases, Ide. I think I did with my current two cases (CoolerMaster Cavaliers).
I: newb.
But I have claimed wiktorie over my GPU.
Moment of truth in a few minutes.
I managed to construct the entire machine without snapping anything apart (except for parts of the case and I meant to do that). This almost certainly means that I have destroyed one or more pieces of equipment in a more subtle way. Possibly by bleeding on it.
Problems that have not been remedied include the weird angles that the motherboard and GPU have decided to rest at. The MB is not touching the case, but is not parallel to its side wall. This has resulted in the IO panel being uninstallable. I might tape it on later, but really, given the porousness of this case, dust coming in through an open IO slot is going to be marginal.
The GPU may be perpendicular to the MB and it's only the angle of the MB that gives the appearance of oddity, but, given the GPU's weight, I would not be surprised if it is a combination of both viewing angle and poor installation.
I'm pretty sure I put the power supply in upside down. However, everything's hooked up fine as far as I can tell--with the exception that the 24-pin MB cord seems looser than I think it should be. But the lack of an "up" arrow on virtually everything except items that are actually basically symmetrical, like the hard drive cage, is annoying. One Corsair logo is upside down and one is right side up. The fan faces the GPU fan, which is facing the ground per necessity and possibly by design.
I'm kind of considering getting a guy I know who's built like a million computers come over and give it a once over before I do something stupid like turning it on. : /
Edit: I think I figured out why the hard drive cage mesh can be removed--to permit installation of HDDs without having to remove everything else in the Goddamn case. That is actually kind of a useful feature. :)
I have successfully built a device for powering small fans!
A computer, not so much. :(
:(
Good luck Ideo.
Isn't the motherboard supposed to beep and shit if there's a hardware failure? No beeps, no codes, no nothing. At least it's not on fire.
The lights are on, but no one is home. The MB is definitely powered, the red power symbol light shows up fine, and the button will turn on the system as expected. The GPU is powered, as it lights up too. Of course, the fans and LEDs and shit are all drawing power. The only indication that something might not be getting power is that the CPU fan doesn't spin up.
Is it making it to the Bios?
Nope.
N/m about the CPU fan, I got it to work. So, basiscally, it's just not responding whatsoever, just drawing power for mechanical objects.
Something may be coming out of the GPU--I get a "no [whatever] signal" message, but I got a repeat of the "no HDMI signal" right after I turned off the machine.
What case did you get?
Mobo should touch the case, should be about 1/4 inch above it.
If the power supply is on the bottom it should be upside down.
Mesh to be removed for installation of drive bays is normal.
Yeah, it doesn't touch the case. The spacers keep it from touching, it's just a bit closer than 1/4 inch.
The case is an Azza Solano.
I'd really try to get the mobo lined up properly. I don't even know how you managed to insert the cards into it with it being askew. When I did it, it was a PITA to line it up, but eventually it was manageable.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 25, 2009, 09:47:32 PM
Nope.
N/m about the CPU fan, I got it to work. So, basiscally, it's just not responding whatsoever, just drawing power for mechanical objects.
Something may be coming out of the GPU--I get a "no [whatever] signal" message, but I got a repeat of the "no HDMI signal" right after I turned off the machine.
My mobo has a two-digit led display inside, which normally displays interior temperature, but during startup displays POST codes. Does your mobo have something like this?
Quote from: DGuller on August 26, 2009, 09:42:06 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 25, 2009, 09:47:32 PM
Nope.
N/m about the CPU fan, I got it to work. So, basiscally, it's just not responding whatsoever, just drawing power for mechanical objects.
Something may be coming out of the GPU--I get a "no [whatever] signal" message, but I got a repeat of the "no HDMI signal" right after I turned off the machine.
My mobo has a two-digit led display inside, which normally displays interior temperature, but during startup displays POST codes. Does your mobo have something like this?
No. Nothing but the red taking-in-power light.
I think I've broken it completely, btw. It happened when I put the case speaker in. I think I switched the positive and negative wires on it, although I'd like to point out that this is not entirely my fault as "red" and "black" are not labels, "positive" and "negative" or "+" and "-" are fucking labels. A label proudly declaring that it is a "SPEAKER" is not really very helpful, and this space would have been better spent telling me what red and black mean, because I am not a Goddamn electrician.
Would a misinstalled speaker wire actually be capable of destroying whatever the fuck I have now destroyed?
When I powered it on that time it came on, and went off, came on, went off, ad infinitum, until I freaked out and killed the PSU switch. Turning the speaker around, it still flashed on and off. Fully removed the speaker. Still flashed on and off.
The red power light still says that power is going in. This is currently the only sign that it is not completely ruined.
Sigh. I knew in my heart of hearts I should've gotten someone to do this for me.
Try paring down the PC to bare essentials. No need to add more things that could go wrong at this stage. Doing the wires wrong probably didn't ruin it. Leave only one RAM stick in, and give all three of them a try if that doesn't help (assuming you have three of them). Bad RAM stick will certainly cause the computer to do practically nothing at all when you turn it on.
Uh, actually, I'm just a retard. I must have knocked out or pulled the CPU's 8-pin without replacing it. :sadblush:
Powers on fine now, and the speaker was successfully installed (I am: COMPUTER GNEIUS), and I believe it's telling me one dash and two dots, signifying a memory problem.
Have I entered the world of DGuller? :o
Quote from: Ideologue on August 26, 2009, 07:18:54 PM
Have I entered the world of DGuller? :o
The wonderful world of building your own computer and struggling for hours on end to find something wrong with a part the size of a matchbook and realizing if you had just ordered a full computer you could be jacking off to porn at Xvideos?
Yeah.
Well, my old computer still works, so porn is still available, and has been a great support in these trying times.
Some very preliminary research indicates that the Corsair 1333 RAM may not be immediately compatible with the P6T SE board, and that the BIOS needs to be configured to accept 1333 (instead of 1066) RAM.
The problem with this, to the best of my knowledge, is that I cannot get into the BIOS to actually do that without RAM... I'd cannibalize my old computer's RAM in order to do this, but DDR2 will definitely not work with the P6T...
I was under the impression that the board would auto-downgrade 1333 to 1066. Not true?
I also notice that Corsair TR3X6G1333C9 is not on the board manual's list of memory--could have sworn I looked that up before I bought it. Edit: nevermind, it's actually definitely on there.
My RAM is not 1066 either, but it downgrades to 1066 just fine. Have you tried using one stick at a time?
^Yeah. I've tried single and dual channel configurations, with combinations designed to identify any individual nonfunctional stick, to no avail. It's puzzling. I'm going to try some other stuff to make sure the error codes it's giving are correct; if that's the case, then that means there's a problem with the board somewhere.
I've narrowed it down to three theories:
1)every memory slot on the board is shot. This seems unlikely, but less unlikely than all three memory sticks being lemons.
2)the CPU is not seated correctly, which may (?) show up as a memory problem if the memory controllers are not working
3)I read on some forum that someone with a similar problem was experiecing a case short due to some part of the motherboard interacting unfavorably with some part of the case, or perhaps the GPU anchor.
I plan on testing three and two, in that order, but want to research more about theory 3 to determine if it can have these kind of effects. If I can eliminate theories 2 and 3, then in the absence of any other theory, the board's memory slots are broken, and I guess I'll have to RMA it (which may or may not work, because I cannot say with certainty that I did not break it).
This is from a review of the Azza Solano case.
QuoteThe motherboard tray, while not removable, was still easy to access. There are several raised mounting points on the tray, so we only had to install three standoffs to fully mount our ATX motherboard.
I'm using like... six. Would the raised mounting points be enough? It seems obvious in retrospect, but I think this is why it's angled. I'm going to try mounting it on the raised mounts only.
On the other hand, why
are there other mounts if they aren't meant to be used? <_<
I mounted mine with 9 screws and things that have screw holes in them.
I think it's worth a shot, though. Like you said, it shouldn't be at an angle... even if it's not causing the immediate problem, it still should probably be corrected.
I have dominated the machine. :yeah:
It's full of stars. :wub:
The, ah, memory issue was so embarassingly stupid I don't want to discuss it further, but thank you all (especially DGuller) for all the assistance. :hug:
Oh come on - what was the problem?
It appears that I didn't actually have the memory inserted into the slots. :sadblush:
Might as well have used a hammer to get them in there, though. WTF is up with that?
It does require an astonishing amount of force to get it in there, yes.
Quote from: Barrister on August 31, 2009, 07:50:50 PM
It does require an astonishing amount of force to get it in there, yes.
I don't know, I thought it required reasonable force. On my motherboard, you just push down, and eventually the sides close on the RAM chip automatically, which lets you know that you pushed far enough. Are those things on the side not universal these days?
They were there, but damn, it makes a sound like a chair breaking whenever anything is added (correctly) or removed to the board.
Other than the MB 24-pin that comes loose if you pick up the case whatsoever (should I get the hammer for it too? : / ), it's working great. Right now, I have HoI3 running plus a dozen Firefox tabs--a feat already well beyond the capabilities of my old machine--but with memory only 50% occupied and CPU usage not getting much higher than 5%. :bowler:
I've had my own troubles with the MB 24-pin power supply. My power supply arrived with a broken connector, the 4 pins on the side were broken off from the 20 other pins. When I would stick it in the motherboard, the 20 pins would hang on tight, but the other 4 pins would come lose at first opportunity. Eventually I realized that it wasn't broken after all, but rather the connector was designed so that the 4-pin part would go in first, and then the 20 pin part would go next and keep the 4 pin part in place by a tiny overhang.
They separate for convenience, I think, in case the MB has a 20-pin connector. Maybe they're not fully attached to each other, I'll check the next time I have it off. I was disappointed the case didn't have a door like it appeared in one photo, but it is still a lot easier to take apart than my old computer.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 31, 2009, 10:38:14 PM
They separate for convenience, I think, in case the MB has a 20-pin connector. Maybe they're not fully attached to each other, I'll check the next time I have it off. I was disappointed the case didn't have a door like it appeared in one photo, but it is still a lot easier to take apart than my old computer.
My computer has a door that comes right off, and no screws to take it off or remove it. It's the most glorious case I've ever seen.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 31, 2009, 10:25:19 PM
They were there, but damn, it makes a sound like a chair breaking whenever anything is added (correctly) or removed to the board.
Other than the MB 24-pin that comes loose if you pick up the case whatsoever (should I get the hammer for it too? : / ), it's working great. Right now, I have HoI3 running plus a dozen Firefox tabs--a feat already well beyond the capabilities of my old machine--but with memory only 50% occupied and CPU usage not getting much higher than 5%. :bowler:
The 24-pin connector should have a catch that snaps shut when the connector is seated in the socket - at least, imine always have.
If you mean the clip thing, it has one, but it doesn't work very well. As long as I don't physically lift the machine, it's okay.
I thought the comp had flat out died yesterday. Turns out it was the power outlet blowing. Freaked me out, though. <_<
I have first hand learned the devilry of USB fuckups. My old trusty Microsoft Internet Keyboard Pro began malfunctioning (I think its USB connector was fubared) and it was fucking up my PDA, my Sanza Clip, and my mouse. Eventually, it shut down all of my USB ports (some sort of bus overload). Once I removed it, everything worked right, including my Sanza Clip, which had never properly worked before. And my PDA is working better, too.
I do not fucking BELIEVE this.
I left the machine on all night for the first time, mostly as a test to see if it would pass. It did not. When I got up, it was still apparently functional, but I noticed that it would not run any programs, or, really, do anything other than come out of screensaver mode.
I sighed, said, "Fine, Vista sucks" and restarted (which I had to do manually), it POSTed, but then I got an error message no disk detected.
I made sure the boot priority hadn't gotten fucked up. Then when that didn't work, I intentionally changed it to boot from DVD, but while it seems to recognize that the Windows disk is in there, and at first actually did fire up the OS, on later attempts it gives me an eternal black screen.
When it did load the OS, a ckhdsk scan didn't indicate anything wrong. Also, if the HDD is completely fucked, should the BIOS even be able to register it at all? It seems to know it is there in the BIOS control screen, and even in the initial POST message (SATA1: Western Digital etc.), and then gives me the error message.
Is the solution fire?
Oh, wow. :console: Don't know what to say.
I guess tomorrow I'll buy a new HDD and see if it works... I would use my Dell's drives, but don't have storage for the data on them. Further, the strange (lack of) behavior when attempting to boot from the OS DVD makes me wonder if the problem isn't in either the HDD or the optical drive...
Hilariously, if it is the HDD, I can't RMA it, because it's physically imprisoned by that broken screw inside the broken HDD cage. :frusty: I was anticipating that it would be the last thing I'd need to replace. I wonder if I could have possibly fucked up the drive with that screw? I mean, if I did, I don't think it would have worked for a week. :unsure:
Fuck it, I'm just taking it to some repair place. I am dead fucking tired of doing surgery on this thing myself.
If you can't boot from the Windows CD, then it's not really the problem with hard drive, I would think. They also typically don't just drop dead without a warning. Something else is fucked up, and let us know when you find out what it is.
You need to always use no-hardware cases, like the ones I have. Everything is secured with sliding clips. No tools needed, other than a screwdriver to secure the motherboard and the PS in.
Quote from: Caliga on September 05, 2009, 07:07:11 PM
You need to always use no-hardware cases, like the ones I have. Everything is secured with sliding clips. No tools needed, other than a screwdriver to secure the motherboard and the PS in.
This too. I'm surprised that there are still cases sold without tool-less installation setup.
Well, I didn't expect that to work--I switched the SATA cables (the HDD and the optical drive) to another pair of ports, and now it boots fine.
I'm tempted to believe I just didn't have something plugged all the way in again, but I did a rather thorough check to make sure the cables were firmly connected (and on both sides). I also don't know how they could've slipped out, although it's plausible that my cats might have decided the tower would be a fun thing to play on. Man, I'd hate that I came here with another problem, just to figure out (at length) that I still don't know how to jam things into other things. :p
The alternative seems more likely, however. I think that, barring poor physical connection, the failure signifies that the SATA 1 port is nearly completely nonfunctional, and perhaps that both SATA 1 and SATA 2 (which are paired) are both broken. I guess what I might do is transfer everything from the old Dell, which is what I'd been planning to do today until I was rudely interrupted by the computer's fuck-up, and then attempt to connect the old HDDs, which was my original intent anyway, to SATAs 1 and 2. If they don't work then, then I think I'll have pinned down the issue.