Was going to put this into the Shooting Gallery, but I think ICE might deserve its own thread at this point.
https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d
QuoteImmigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says
WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal immigration officers are asserting sweeping power to forcibly enter people's homes without a judge's warrant, according to an internal Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by The Associated Press, marking a sharp reversal of longstanding guidance meant to respect constitutional limits on government searches.
The memo authorizes ICE officers to use force to enter a residence based solely on a more narrow administrative warrant to arrest someone with a final order of removal, a move that advocates say collides with Fourth Amendment protections and upends years of advice given to immigrant communities.
The shift comes as the Trump administration dramatically expands immigration arrests nationwide, deploying thousands of officers under a mass deportation campaign that is already reshaping enforcement tactics in cities such as Minneapolis.
For years, immigrant advocates, legal aid groups and local governments have urged people not to open their doors to immigration agents unless they are shown a warrant signed by a judge. That guidance is rooted in Supreme Court rulings that generally prohibit law enforcement from entering a home without judicial approval. The ICE directive directly undercuts that advice at a time when arrests are accelerating under the administration's immigration crackdown.
The memo itself has not been widely shared within the agency, according to a whistleblower complaint, but its contents have been used to train new ICE officers who are being deployed into cities and towns to implement the president's immigration crackdown. New ICE hires and those still in training are being told to follow the memo's guidance instead of written training materials that actually contradict the memo, according to the whistleblower disclosure.
It is unclear how broadly the directive has been applied in immigration enforcement operations. The Associated Press witnessed ICE officers ramming through the front door of the home of a Liberian man, Garrison Gibson, with a deportation order from 2023 in Minneapolis on Jan. 11, wearing heavy tactical gear and with their rifles drawn.
Documents reviewed by The AP revealed that the agents only had an administrative warrant — meaning there was no judge who authorized the raid on private property.
The change is almost certain to meet legal challenges and stiff criticism from advocacy groups and immigrant-friendly state and local governments that have spent years successfully urging people not to open their doors unless ICE shows them a warrant signed by a judge.
The Associated Press obtained the memo and whistleblower complaint from an official in Congress, who shared it on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive documents. The AP verified the authenticity of the accounts in the complaint.
The memo, signed by the acting director of ICE, Todd Lyons, and dated May 12, 2025, says: "Although the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has not historically relied on administrative warrants alone to arrest aliens subject to final orders of removal in their place of residence, the DHS Office of the General Counsel has recently determined that the U.S. Constitution, the Immigration and Nationality Act, and the immigration regulations do not prohibit relying on administrative warrants for this purpose."
The memo does not detail how that determination was made nor what its legal repercussions might be.
Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin said in an e-mailed statement to the AP that everyone the department serves with an administrative warrant has already had "full due process and a final order of removal."
She said the officers issuing those warrants have also found probable cause for the person's arrest. She said the Supreme Court and Congress have "recognized the propriety of administrative warrants in cases of immigration enforcement," without elaborating. McLaughlin did not respond to questions about whether ICE officers entered a person's home since the memo was issued, relying solely on an administrative warrant and if so, how often.
Recent arrests shine a light on tactics
Whistleblower Aid, a nonprofit legal organization that assists workers exposing wrongdoings, said in the whistleblower complaint obtained by The Associated Press that it represents two anonymous U.S. government officials "disclosing a secretive — and seemingly unconstitutional — policy directive."
A wave of recent high-profile arrests, many unfolding at private homes and businesses and captured on video, has placed a spotlight on immigration arrest tactics, including officers' use of proper warrants.
Most immigration arrests are carried out under administrative warrants, internal documents issued by immigration authorities that authorize the arrest of a specific individual but do not permit officers to forcibly enter private homes or other non-public spaces without consent. Only warrants signed by judges carry that authority.
All law enforcement operations — including those conducted by ICE and Customs and Border Protection — are governed by the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, which protects all people in the country from unreasonable searches and seizures.
People can legally refuse federal immigration agents entry into private property if the agents only have an administrative warrant, with some limited exceptions.
Memo shown to 'select' officials
The memo says ICE officers can forcibly enter homes and arrest immigrants using just a signed administrative warrant known as an I-205 if they have a final order of removal issued by an immigration judge, the Board of Immigration Appeals or a district judge or magistrate judge.
The memo says officers must first knock on the door and share who they are and why they're at the residence. They're limited in the hours they can go into the home — after 6 a.m. and before 10 p.m. The people inside must be given a "reasonable chance to act lawfully." But if that doesn't work, the memo says, they can use force to go in.
"Should the alien refuse admittance, ICE officers and agents should use only a necessary and reasonable amount of force to enter the alien's residence, following proper notification of the officer or agent's authority and intent to enter," the memo reads.
The memo is addressed to all ICE personnel. But it has been shown only to "select DHS officials" who then shared it with some employees who were told to read it and return it, Whistleblower Aid wrote in the disclosure.
One of the two whistleblowers was allowed to view the memo only in the presence of a supervisor and then had to give it back. That person was not allowed to take notes. A whistleblower was able to access the document and lawfully disclose it to Congress, Whistleblower Aid said.
Although the memo was issued in May, David Kligerman, senior vice president and special counsel at Whistleblower Aid, said it took time for its clients to find a "safe and legal path to disclose it to lawmakers and the American people."
Memo says ICE officers are told to rely solely on administrative warrants
ICE has been rapidly hiring thousands of new deportation officers to carry out the president's mass deportation agenda. They're trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Georgia.
During a visit there by The Associated Press in August, ICE officials said repeatedly that new officers were being trained to follow the Fourth Amendment.
But according to the whistleblowers' account, newly hired ICE officers are being told they can rely solely on administrative warrants to enter homes to make arrests, even though that conflicts with written Homeland Security training materials.
Lindsay Nash, a law professor at Yeshiva University's Cardozo School of Law in New York, said the memo "flies in the face" of what the Fourth Amendment protects against and what ICE itself has historically said are its authorities.
She said there's an "enormous potential for overreach, for mistakes and we've seen that those can happen with very, very serious consequences."
The memo itself: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26499371-dhs-ice-memo-1-21-26/
Didn't CDM already run a thread with this exact same title years ago? Prescient he was.
Wherever he is, I hope he's doing well.
:(
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 21, 2026, 08:45:36 PMhttps://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d
QuoteImmigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says
Sorry, guys. I have failed you :(
Either way, I assume they'll argue that the final deportation order is already judge-approved so an additional warrant is superfluous?
https://apnews.com/article/ice-immigration-detention-death-texas-f04b5cb76f175255e58b947f0e14bc12
QuoteAutopsy finds Cuban immigrant in ICE custody died of homicide due to asphyxia
WASHINGTON (AP) — A Cuban migrant held in solitary confinement at an immigration detention facility in Texas died after guards held him down and he stopped breathing, according to an autopsy report released Wednesday that ruled the death a homicide.
Geraldo Lunas Campos died Jan. 3 following an altercation with guards. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said the 55-year-old father of four was attempting suicide and the staff tried to save him.
But a witness told The Associated Press last week that Lunas Campos was handcuffed as at least five guards held him down and one put an arm around his neck and squeezed until he was unconscious.
His death was one of at least three reported in little more than a month at Camp East Montana, a sprawling tent facility in the desert on the grounds of Fort Bliss, an Army base.
The autopsy report by the El Paso County Medical Examiner's Office found Lunas Campos' body showed signs of a struggle, including abrasions on his chest and knees. He also had hemorrhages on his neck. The deputy medical examiner, Dr. Adam Gonzalez. determined the cause of death was asphyxia due to neck and torso compression.
The report said witnesses saw Lunas Campos "become unresponsive while being physically restrained by law enforcement." It did not elaborate on what happened during the struggle but cited evidence of injuries to his neck, head and torso associated with physical restraint. The report also noted the presence of petechial hemorrhages — tiny blood spots from burst capillaries that can be associated with intense strain or injury — in the eyelids and skin of the neck.
Dr. Victor Weedn, a forensic pathologist who reviewed the autopsy report for AP, said the presence of petechiae in the eyes support the conclusion that asphyxia caused the death. Those injuries suggest pressure on the body and are often associated with such deaths, he said.
He said the contusions on Lunas Campos' body may reflect physical restraint and the neck injuries were consistent with a hand or knee on the neck.
The autopsy also found the presence of prescription antidepressant and antihistamine medications, adding that Lunas Campos had a history of bipolar disorder and anxiety. It made no mention of him attempting suicide.
Government provided changing accounts of what happened
ICE's initial account of the death, which included no mention of an altercation with guards, said Lunas Campos had become disruptive and staff moved him into a cellblock where detainees are held away from others.
"While in segregation, staff observed him in distress and contacted on-site medical personnel for assistance," the agency said in its Jan. 9 statement. "Medical staff responded, initiated lifesaving measures, and requested emergency medical services."
Lunas Campos was pronounced dead after paramedics arrived.
Last Thursday, after Lunas Campos' family was first informed the death was likely to be ruled a homicide, Department of Homeland Security spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin amended the government's account, saying he had attempted suicide and guards tried to help him.
"Campos violently resisted the security staff and continued to attempt to take his life," she said. "During the ensuing struggle, Campos stopped breathing and lost consciousness."
After the final autopsy report was released Wednesday, McLaughlin issued a statement emphasizing that Lunas Campos was "a criminal illegal alien and convicted child sex predator."
New York court records show Lunas Campos was convicted in 2003 of sexual contact with a person under 11, a felony for which he was sentenced to one year in jail and placed on the state's sex offender registry. Lunas Campos was also sentenced to five years in prison and three years of supervision in 2009 after being convicted of attempting to sell a controlled substance, according to the New York corrections records. He completed the sentence in January 2017.
"ICE takes seriously the health and safety of all those detained in our custody," McLaughlin said Wednesday, adding that the agency was investigating the death. DHS has not responded to questions about whether any outside law enforcement agency was also investigating.
Deaths put a spotlight on Camp East Montana
The AP reported in August that the $1.2 billion contract to build and operate Camp East Montana, expected to become the largest detention facility in the U.S., was awarded to a private contractor headquartered in a single-family home in Richmond, Virginia. The company, Acquisition Logistics LLC, had no prior experience running a corrections facility and has subcontracted with other companies to help operate the camp.
It was not immediately clear whether the guards present when Lunas Campos died were government employees or those of a private contractor.
A final determination of homicide by the medical examiner would typically be critical in determining whether any guards are held criminally or civilly liable. The fact that Lunas Campos died on an Army base could limit state and local officials' legal jurisdiction to investigate.
Lunas Campos was among the first detainees sent to Camp Montana East, arriving in September after ICE arrested him in Rochester, New York, where he lived for more than two decades. He was legally admitted to the U.S. in 1996, part of a wave of Cuban immigrants seeking to reach Florida by boat.
ICE said he was picked up in July as part of a planned immigration enforcement operation due to criminal convictions that made him eligible for removal.
In addition to Lunas Campos, ICE announced that on Dec. 3 an immigrant from Guatemala held in Camp East Montana died after being transferred to a El Paso hospital for care. While the cause of death was still pending, the agency said Francisco Gaspar-Andres, 48, was suspected to have died of liver and kidney failure.
On Sunday, ICE announced that Victor Manuel Diaz, a 36-year-old immigrant from Nicaragua, died at Camp East Montana on Jan. 14 of a "presumed suicide." The agency said Diaz was detained by ICE earlier this month during the immigration crackdown in Minneapolis.
Unlike with the two prior deaths, Diaz's body wasn't sent to the county medical examiner in El Paso. McLaughlin said Wednesday that the autopsy for Diaz is being performed at the Army medical center at Fort Bliss. DHS again did not respond to questions about whether any agency other than ICE will investigate the death.
Rep. Veronica Escobar, a Democrat whose district includes El Paso, called on DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and acting ICE Director Todd M. Lyons to brief Congress about the recent deaths.
"DHS must preserve all evidence — including halting their effort to deport the witnesses," Escobar said Wednesday. "I reiterate my call for Camp East Montana to be shut down and for the contract with the corporation running it to be terminated."
Quote from: Syt on January 22, 2026, 02:51:25 AMEither way, I assume they'll argue that the final deportation order is already judge-approved so an additional warrant is superfluous?
The final deportation order comes from an immigration "judge" who is an executive branch official not an Article 3 federal judge. That order is an authorization of administrative action, nothing more.
Immigration judges can't provide ICE agents authority to enter a home; the warrant requirement is enshrined in Article IV of the Constitution, and it can't be evaded because some acting agency clown has a flunky draft a memo full of legal baloney.
I had strongly suspected that something like this memo was floating around because even in this lawless authoritarian muck of an administration, there had to be some agency guidance underlying the widespread and endemic abuse of administrative warrants by ICE. Obviously that suspicion was widely shared as this whistleblower org finally snagged a copy.
Sure BUT the ICE agents will only be accountable if their fascist masters ever lose power. So there is that.
Quote from: Syt on January 22, 2026, 02:50:40 AMSorry, guys. I have failed you :(
A separate ICE thread may not be such a bad idea though. :console:
Quote from: Tamas on January 22, 2026, 11:46:17 AMSure BUT the ICE agents will only be accountable if their fascist masters ever lose power. So there is that.
When ICE agents start breaking into the wrong peoples' homes and get greeted by a legal shotgun blast to the face, this process will slow down.
It's more than a bit ironic that the NRA death cult boys have claimed for so long that they need guns to protect against just this sort of tyranny, and they are likelier to be behind the mask than in front of it.
The picture of the five year old boy being taken away by ICE - on his way home from pre-school wearing that floppy eared hat - is just hear breaking.
An independent autopsy has confirmed that Rene Goode's death came about as a result of the third shot fired by Ross from the side of the vehicle and through the driver-side window. None of the other wounds were life-threatening.
DHS surely knows this from their own autopsy, but they insist the Ross is so innocent that no investigation is needed and, in fact, that all efforts should be made to ensure that an investigation is impossible.
Minnesota Elementary School Sends Urgent Message as ICE Sends Flyers Offering Food Support to Families (https://meidasnews.com/news/minnesota-elementary-school-sends-urgent-message-as-ice-sends-flyers-offering-food-support-to-families)
Just when you think they can't be any scummier.
Quote from: grumbler on January 22, 2026, 07:01:38 PMQuote from: Tamas on January 22, 2026, 11:46:17 AMSure BUT the ICE agents will only be accountable if their fascist masters ever lose power. So there is that.
When ICE agents start breaking into the wrong peoples' homes and get greeted by a legal shotgun blast to the face, this process will slow down.
It's more than a bit ironic that the NRA death cult boys have claimed for so long that they need guns to protect against just this sort of tyranny, and they are likelier to be behind the mask than in front of it.
I tend to wonder if their thinking is the opposite...that some cynical folks at the top are hoping such a thing will happen in order to give a pretext to escalate.
There is no upside to wasting mental bandwidth on US internal issues at this point except in a national security sense. They're not a role model for governance, civic amenities, or culture really. Mentally downgrade them to "Brazilian government decides to employ the military to clear out Venezuelan migrants". You glance at the headline and move on with your life.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 22, 2026, 11:04:28 PMI tend to wonder if their thinking is the opposite...that some cynical folks at the top are hoping such a thing will happen in order to give a pretext to escalate.
What the bosses want is not all that relevant to the guy facing a shotgun blast to the face.
ICE deport 100M$ jewelry thief before trial (https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/ice-deports-jewelry-heist-suspect-b2905236.html)
There was a huge jewlery theft in 2022, in California, the 7 thieves got away with 100M$.
5 of them got caught, they were each facing up to 25 years in prison. The stolen merchandise, nor the value of the product have been found since.
One of the thief got snatched by ICE, he was Salvadorian. He appeared in front of an immigration tribunal for "voluntary deportation" given his criminal status. Guy didn't deny anything of his criminal charges, was self represented, agreed for deportation.
At his criminal trial, his lawyer was surprised to hear he couldn't be there because ICE had deported him to Salvador, but that wasn't his fault he couldn't be there to face trial, see, that was ICE doing...
Well, one less criminal in the US, I suppose.
Another shooting by ICE in Minnesota. ICE magdumped an unarmed guy while struggling with him, probably after one of them accidentally discharged while pistol-whipping him.
That clap by ICE at the end :wacko: : https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressiveHQ/comments/1qlqu86/124_mn_ice_shooting_another_angle_from_farther/
Again, where is the NRA? This guy was apparently attacked and then executed for having a legal handgun. Where are all the "mah Secon''Mendment" slappies now? Behind masks?
Everytime I see footage of ICE activities in Minneapolis or Chicago, or any other city then been deployed to terrorize, there is a gaggle of ICE agents milling about with their giant SUVs and tactical gear. The whistles are really superfluous at this point, as they stand out so glaringly even undocumented Hellen Keller would know whenever ICE is in the vicinity. It doesn't seem like these people have the slightest clue what they are doing.
The budget for the agency is now greater than the entire Justice Department (including the FBI, DEA, US Marshalls, ATF, Bureau of Prisons, the US Attorneys' office in all 50 states and fed districts, and Main Justice). It's higher the entire defense budget for either Israel or Italy. It's about 10 times higher than it was under Obama, who still managed more deportations. What a colossal waste. It would take every Somali fraudster in the world 1000 years to screw over the taxpayer more.
It's only a waste if they can't create a situation bad enough to serve as pretext for Trump's third term.
Quote from: Legbiter on January 22, 2026, 11:12:35 PMThere is no upside to wasting mental bandwidth on US internal issues at this point except in a national security sense. They're not a role model for governance, civic amenities, or culture really. Mentally downgrade them to "Brazilian government decides to employ the military to clear out Venezuelan migrants". You glance at the headline and move on with your life.
Quite right and nicely put.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 24, 2026, 03:51:45 PMQuote from: Legbiter on January 22, 2026, 11:12:35 PMThere is no upside to wasting mental bandwidth on US internal issues at this point except in a national security sense. They're not a role model for governance, civic amenities, or culture really. Mentally downgrade them to "Brazilian government decides to employ the military to clear out Venezuelan migrants". You glance at the headline and move on with your life.
Quite right and nicely put.
Would be the right approach for my mental health for sure.
I have watched the latest incidents from a few angles and this is very obviously another execution.
As expected Tyranny reigns.
Yep. Once it was ok to shoot citizens of the United States and only leftwing weirdos were against it it was a slippery slope to just having it be ok for law enforcement to kill us.
And it is just a smart thing to do. Dead people tell no tales. Dead people have no rights.
Quote from: Tamas on January 24, 2026, 04:18:40 PMI have watched the latest incidents from a few angles and this is very obviously another execution.
And an extremely dangerous one to his fellow agents as well. The agent claims to have been in fear of his life from an unarmed (they'd removed his gun) blind man (pepper sprayed from within inches of his eyes) on his knees, facing away. And HSA claims this was a counter-terrorism action.
The felons then fled the scene of the murder.
Quote from: Tamas on January 24, 2026, 04:18:40 PMI have watched the latest incidents from a few angles and this is very obviously another execution.
It'd be hard to disagree, yet Noem and Trump do.
Looks like the victim was only guilty of being a person who cared about other people :(
The US is a write-off. Domestic policy: death squads. Foreign policy: attacking allies.
The person ICE murdered
QuoteThe man fatally shot by Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis was Alex Jeffrey Pretti, a U.S. citizen with no criminal record, officials said.
Mr. Pretti, who was 37, was a registered nurse who worked in the intensive-care unit at the Veterans Affairs hospital in Minneapolis, according to interviews and public records, and lived in an apartment in Minneapolis a short drive away from where he was killed.
I suggest the cutsie thread title be changed
Edit: someone put together some of the victim's pictures
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT6045sDZ3Z/?igsh=MWg5NGwyd3J1eWwwdg==
Quote from: grumbler on January 24, 2026, 08:24:32 PMQuote from: Tamas on January 24, 2026, 04:18:40 PMI have watched the latest incidents from a few angles and this is very obviously another execution.
And an extremely dangerous one to his fellow agents as well. The agent claims to have been in fear of his life from an unarmed (they'd removed his gun) blind man (pepper sprayed from within inches of his eyes) on his knees, facing away. And HSA claims this was a counter-terrorism action.
The felons then fled the scene of the murder.
Yeah, they didn't even know he had a gun until they had him pinned on the ground. Shortly before executing him for the audacity of shielding a women from pepper spray.
Thanks
I know I shouldn't be surprised, and I am not, but I am still finding it extraordinary that the FBI director and other senior government and federal leaders continue to completely ignore the well-documented reality and talk absolute and obvious falsehoods about the murder.
We keep crying about social media and such but trivially easy access to cameras and even more importantly to the sharing of recorded footage is, once again, instrumental in holding the ones in power to account.
If it wasn't for those recordings all we'd know now is the official narrative and eye witnesses (fellow protesters) disagreeing with it. No doubt there'd be a debate on this very forum on which one we should take at face value.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 11:49:18 AMI know I shouldn't be surprised, and I am not, but I am still finding it extraordinary that the FBI director and other senior government and federal leaders continue to completely ignore the well-documented reality and talk absolute and obvious falsehoods about the murder.
We keep crying about social media and such but trivially easy access to cameras and even more importantly to the sharing of recorded footage is, once again, instrumental in holding the ones in power to account.
If it wasn't for those recordings all we'd know now is the official narrative and eye witnesses (fellow protesters) disagreeing with it. No doubt there'd be a debate on this very forum on which one we should take at face value.
Social media lets people ignore the obvious evidence in favor of either distractions from what is happening or by providing convenient narratives about the event rather than viewing and judging it themselves.
So I think it still bears a considerable responsibility.
And before social media people were able to video things.
Social media allows the US government to spread its lies to its followers, who have no idea they are being lied to because that social media is their only source of information.
Yeah we had no overwhelming propaganda through the media before social media, what the hell are you guys smoking. Fox News and that's not even a state one.
With social media people can connect and organise.
If that was so inconsequential like you claim, autocracies wouldn't be limiting access to it.
Social media reinforce our own echo chamber.
I get fed with right wing propaganda conspiracy theories as soon as I click on a link to read what I think is some news. Deleting cookies and browsing in private windows ain't enough anymore.
You are missing my point. I will try again:
Newspapers: improve the reach of the government and those with substantial financial resources. Heavily limited by distribution logistics. Extremely limited option as platform for an individual or a disorganised community.
Radio and TV: as above except near impossible as a individual or not tightly organised community/organisation to utilise, at least not without the government having trivial and effective tools to curtail it.
Social media: very effective for the government and other malicious actors with significant financial resources. Extremely low barrier of entry for utilisation by individuals and disorganised communities.
So yeah, cross of social media from that list and you have curtailed the government's arsenal to 3 otherajor media areas. But you have also eliminated the only efficient way for a grass roots movement or for mere individuals to resist l, inform, and be informed.
Meanwhile:
QuoteMeanwhile, at the Department of Homeland Security press conference in Minneapolis, the commander of the US border patrol Greg Bovino lectured the hall and listeners virtually about "choices" and how "many actions that take place are due to our choices."
"And then when you choose," he said, "When someone chooses to listen to a politician, a so-called journalist, a community leader that spouted that type of vilification towards law enforcement or anything else we choose to listen to that that is a choice, and there are consequences and actions there also. I think we saw that yesterday."
It's a fairly polite way to threaten protestors, I'll give him that much.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 12:58:26 PMYeah we had no overwhelming propaganda through the media before social media, what the hell are you guys smoking. Fox News and that's not even a state one.
With social media people can connect and organise.
If that was so inconsequential like you claim, autocracies wouldn't be limiting access to it.
If you don't see the difference, I'm not sure I can explain it to you
I now know how old you are, you post like you are a lot younger because you seem to not know the world before the Internet.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 12:58:26 PMYeah we had no overwhelming propaganda through the media before social media, what the hell are you guys smoking. Fox News and that's not even a state one.
With social media people can connect and organise.
If that was so inconsequential like you claim, autocracies wouldn't be limiting access to it.
Yeah. I think there is a bit of both here. Law enforcement, intelligence agencies, the coercive wing of the state lie - and they have always lied.
There is an element of social media that makes it easier for the truth to be recorded and spread. The new thing in the context of senior leaders of a law enforcement agency depending their guys killing someone is the sheer volume of video being circulated from different angles showing the shooting.
On social media more generally though I'm really struck by a line in the list I shared of the German journalist from what she'd heard from people in Iran where one was just saying they had no idea they were so infiltrated. We look back 15 years ago and social media had a huge, transformative role in the Arab Spring, I think it was important in other revolutions too like the Maidan Revolution. One is purely anecdotal/perceptual but there seem to be fewer of those revolutions in recent years and also that line from Iran. I can't help but wonder if repressive regimes are now technologically sophisticated that social media is as (perhaps more) helpful in infiltrating, tracking and disrupting activist networks as it previously has been in organising them and disseminating.
Edit: Also - could be totally wrong - but I think the failed Turkish coup was maybe the pivot point between these two eras.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 25, 2026, 04:03:18 PMQuote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 12:58:26 PMYeah we had no overwhelming propaganda through the media before social media, what the hell are you guys smoking. Fox News and that's not even a state one.
With social media people can connect and organise.
If that was so inconsequential like you claim, autocracies wouldn't be limiting access to it.
If you don't see the difference, I'm not sure I can explain it to you
I now know how old you are, you post like you are a lot younger because you seem to not know the world before the Internet.
This was really condescending. I started typing a reply out but if you think somebody who grew up in a fucking village that was until his early teens behind the fucking Iron Curtain can't remember what life was without the Internet, then that prices your opinion in, not mine.
Plus, you are not just arguing with me but with the rules of Russia, China, Iran and other similar places which curtail social media and Internet access to control dissent.
Take this latest murder. How would YOU (or as a matter of fact, state authorities) would have seen evidence of what actually happened if it wasn't for the extremely easy access mobile technology and Internet (social media) offers individuals to record and share that evidence? Maybe if somebody had a camera ICE couldn't confiscate, it might had found itself to some TV station that wasn't too afraid of legal troubles for showing the footage. Or it would had eventually made it's way to you via some Internet bulletin boards or forums if you want to focus on social media as this non-utility.
And eye witness accounts of course. We would have read the government's version and the witnesses taking to the press, and then we would have the speculation, probably with Zoupa in full anti-establishment zeal arguing with "impartial logical mode" Yi on the other side, with the rest of us chipping in.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 04:23:36 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on January 25, 2026, 04:03:18 PMQuote from: Tamas on January 25, 2026, 12:58:26 PMYeah we had no overwhelming propaganda through the media before social media, what the hell are you guys smoking. Fox News and that's not even a state one.
With social media people can connect and organise.
If that was so inconsequential like you claim, autocracies wouldn't be limiting access to it.
If you don't see the difference, I'm not sure I can explain it to you
I now know how old you are, you post like you are a lot younger because you seem to not know the world before the Internet.
This was really condescending. I started typing a reply out but if you think somebody who grew up in a fucking village that was until his early teens behind the fucking Iron Curtain can't remember what life was without the Internet, then that prices your opinion in, not mine.
Plus, you are not just arguing with me but with the rules of Russia, China, Iran and other similar places which curtail social media and Internet access to control dissent.
Take this latest murder. How would YOU (or as a matter of fact, state authorities) would have seen evidence of what actually happened if it wasn't for the extremely easy access mobile technology and Internet (social media) offers individuals to record and share that evidence? Maybe if somebody had a camera ICE couldn't confiscate, it might had found itself to some TV station that wasn't too afraid of legal troubles for showing the footage. Or it would had eventually made it's way to you via some Internet bulletin boards or forums if you want to focus on social media as this non-utility.
And eye witness accounts of course. We would have read the government's version and the witnesses taking to the press, and then we would have the speculation, probably with Zoupa in full anti-establishment zeal arguing with "impartial logical mode" Yi on the other side, with the rest of us chipping in.
You asked what people were smoking, you kind of deserved it
On social media, I agree that it can be used to organize.
However, I think that if the fascists control it it can also be used to surveil and shape public opinion to a high degree of efficiency. The Chinese are quite good at it, for example.
Given that the American social media oligarchs are aligned with the Trumpists, I am not optimistic about the long term potential for social media to serve as a locus of resistance in the US. I could be wrong, though.
In the long run, I think social media would be a more effective tool for authoritarians than for individuals seeking freedom. It had its early successes before the more clever authoritarians caught on and taught the less clever authoritarians their tricks.
A local example, when North Carolina had its ICE surge members of several local social media groups were reporting on and tracking ICE's activities. Shortly after this started they were flooded by new accounts shouting them down and attacking them for being un-American. Just about all of those groups either shut down, became private or declared that politics could no longer be discussed on them.
The two killings. Are you all claiming that we as the general public would have seen evidence of what has happened, without social media? (or the easy cross-connectivity technology provides, if you will, but that is not detachable from social media as it's the same phenomenon).
No I don't think anyone is claiming that. I think the claim is that even as we know, social media manipulation undermines the power of that knowledge.
It could be wrong though.
For what its worth, Tamas, I fully agree with you. Without modern camera phones and social media to share said video footage, the FBI/ICE/DHS would have had a monopoly on the "truth" and the legacy media would have just accepted their version and aired/published/reported on it. Probably word for word like they do with most police and government statements. Passive voice and all.
Agreed but on aggregate I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad when it comes to social media.
Quote from: Zoupa on January 26, 2026, 02:05:35 AMAgreed but on aggregate I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad when it comes to social media.
That's because you live in a free society.
A regime like Hungary which I know in detail has been perfectly able to brainwash a large swath of the population and just dominate and control discourse without social media as their prime weapon. Yes they use it but they didn't need it.
But there is no wide-reach independent media in Hungary, hasn't been for about a decade, outside of YouTube and social media. I expect the situation is the same in other hybrid regimes as well and so it will be in the US, too.
Quote from: Tamas on January 26, 2026, 03:49:29 AMQuote from: Zoupa on January 26, 2026, 02:05:35 AMAgreed but on aggregate I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad when it comes to social media.
That's because you live in a free society.
A regime like Hungary which I know in detail has been perfectly able to brainwash a large swath of the population and just dominate and control discourse without social media as their prime weapon. Yes they use it but they didn't need it.
But there is no wide-reach independent media in Hungary, hasn't been for about a decade, outside of YouTube and social media. I expect the situation is the same in other hybrid regimes as well and so it will be in the US, too.
If the US did what you are saying, there is no reason they would allow free speech on social media.
Well yeah because it's too effective a tool to be left alone. That's my point. It's a net good that we have it where and when we have it. A modern state can absolutely brainwash without it but you can't just share your regime-damning evidence with the world at a push of a button without it.
Another example: Gaza, no Internet blackout by Israel, lots of grim details and photos got out. Iran? Internet blackout and we are only guessing what was happening.
"where is the gun?!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/s/Oqqn7PHGp4
So, Americans, what's your take gun-culture wise, how are the protestors with a gun permit likely to respond to this? Will they be more likely to leave their guns home in the hope that will increase their chances of walking away without being summarily executed for standing somewhere, or the opposite - seeing how they can get killed even if they are having their hands high up in the air, will they be more likely to brandish their gun and open fire if ICE approaches them?
Quote from: Tamas on January 26, 2026, 07:56:27 AMSo, Americans, what's your take gun-culture wise, how are the protestors with a gun permit likely to respond to this? Will they be more likely to leave their guns home in the hope that will increase their chances of walking away without being summarily executed for standing somewhere, or the opposite - seeing how they can get killed even if they are having their hands high up in the air, will they be more likely to brandish their gun and open fire if ICE approaches them?
Legal gun owners will generally not brandish guns, since that is a crime pretty much anywhere even when facing a threat, whether you're licensed or not.
Quote from: Tamas on January 26, 2026, 07:56:27 AMSo, Americans, what's your take gun-culture wise, how are the protestors with a gun permit likely to respond to this? Will they be more likely to leave their guns home in the hope that will increase their chances of walking away without being summarily executed for standing somewhere, or the opposite - seeing how they can get killed even if they are having their hands high up in the air, will they be more likely to brandish their gun and open fire if ICE approaches them?
That is THE question, IMO. The Trump regime is clearly trying to provoke a violent response in order to have an excuse to implement some sort of martial law. This would, they hope, create some sort of "rally 'round the flag" effect among their supporters and justify criminalizing even peaceful protest.
ICE is building a database of "domestic terrorists" using facial recognition of the protestors filmed by ICE/CPB agents. What do you think the odds are that this database will be used in the midterm elections at critical voting places to arrest the "domestic terrorists" standing in line to vote?
Yeah, it's a very precarious position. Be passive and they can implement their fascist rule and they can coerce people not to go and vote. Resist too much and you give them the excuse to do so even more brazenly, at which point there's no turning back without a, well, a revolution, really.
Like we have been discussing, I think pro-democracy forces need to walk this careful balance until the mid-terms. But if the mid-terms fail to produce a Republican collapse, something more radical will be needed.
Quote from: Sophie Scholl on January 26, 2026, 01:08:50 AMFor what its worth, Tamas, I fully agree with you. Without modern camera phones and social media to share said video footage, the FBI/ICE/DHS would have had a monopoly on the "truth" and the legacy media would have just accepted their version and aired/published/reported on it. Probably word for word like they do with most police and government statements. Passive voice and all.
We had citizens taking photographs and videos of police wrongdoing long before the internet. We also had something called investigative journalism and news media (both print and tv) who saw their role of holding government to account as being important.
The notion that we didn't have a way of keeping government accountable before social media is frankly absurd.
The combination of those to things
Seems to me like two sides talking past each other.
The fact that camera phones are ubiquitous and the internet facilitates near instantaneous sharing of information is clearly a good thing, exposing the absurdity of the lies being pushed by officials in real time.
The fact social media is dominated by a small number of corporatized platforms motivated to privilege the spread of disinformation and slop is a bad thing.
Both things can be and are true at the same time.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2026, 01:12:42 PMSeems to me like two sides talking past each other.
The fact that camera phones are ubiquitous and the internet facilitates near instantaneous sharing of information is clearly a good thing, exposing the absurdity of the lies being pushed by officials in real time.
The fact social media is dominated by a small number of corporatized platforms motivated to privilege the spread of disinformation and slop is a bad thing.
Both things can be and are true at the same time.
Not really. I am saying the coexistence of these two make easy Internet access (which like it or not various social media is a big part of) a net good. Everyone else except Sophie say their coexistence make easy Internet access a net bad.
Social media allows us to see some crimes of a government that was elected with the big help of social media.
https://thehill.com/homenews/5707075-pretti-shooting-white-house-response/
QuoteLeavitt distances Trump from Noem, Miller rhetoric on Pretti killing
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt on Monday notably distanced President Trump from rhetoric made by high-profile members of his administration in the aftermath of the shooting death of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis.
Leavitt was peppered with questions during the White House press briefing about whether Trump agreed with sentiments of Pretti's killing that Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller made over the weekend.
That included Noem saying Pretti "attacked" federal law enforcement while "brandishing" a firearm and saying the incident was an example of "domestic terrorism." Meanwhile, Miller referred to Pretti as a "would-be assassin" who "tried to murder federal law enforcement."
Multiple angles of video captured by witnesses of Pretti's confrontation with federal law enforcement Saturday show an officer shooting Pretti in the back after an altercation in which Pretti, filming the officers, sought to help a woman being pepper-sprayed before he was also pepper-sprayed. Video appears to show an officer taking Pretti's gun and walking away before he was shot.
When asked whether Trump agrees with Noem and Miller's sentiments on the circumstances, Leavitt said she has not heard the president "characterize Mr. Pretti in that way."
"However, I have heard the president say he wants to let the facts and the investigation lead itself," Leavitt said.
Leavitt did not give a definitive answer when another reporter asked whether Miller will be apologizing to Pretti's family.
"Again, this incident remains under investigation, and nobody here at the White House, including the president of the United States, wants to see Americans hurt or killed and losing their lives in American streets," she responded.
Leavitt's public navigation of the aftermath of Pretti's shooting showed a shift in how the White House was handling the situation, and it marked a major contrast with some of the administration's reaction to the shooting death of Renee Good earlier this month. The administration across the board was quick to defend the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer who fatally shot Good, who was unarmed.
Trump, however, did express notions while sitting down for an interview with The New York Times that he did not want to see anyone shot when he watched video of Good.
"Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of federal law enforcement and the many Americans who have been victimized at the hands of illegal alien criminals," Leavitt told reporters.
...
Between this and the news that Gregory Bovino and some agents are leaving, is Trump doing the well trod thing of deflecting blame to subordinates when policies prove toxic?
Of course, BBC report notes that it looks like immigrations raids are still ongoing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrdlr70qg4o
Quote from: garbon on January 27, 2026, 04:01:38 AMhttps://thehill.com/homenews/5707075-pretti-shooting-white-house-response/
Between this and the news that Gregory Bovino and some agents are leaving, is Trump doing the well trod thing of deflecting blame to subordinates when policies prove toxic?
Of course, BBC report notes that it looks like immigrations raids are still ongoing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrdlr70qg4o
Quote from: Tamas on January 26, 2026, 02:22:34 PMNot really. I am saying the coexistence of these two make easy Internet access (which like it or not various social media is a big part of) a net good. Everyone else except Sophie say their coexistence make easy Internet access a net bad.
Given that social media arose near to when smartphone and their cameras came about, I think it is hard to divorce impact of each development.
I think we are now also entering a period where we have to be increasing vigilant about what we see given the increasing level of sophistication that AI can bring to video. It makes the potential impact of 'real' video speaking truth to power via social media harder to assess/harder to have an impact as we move forward.
Apparently, the Gestapo leader is out of a job. Sort of. Not even a cozzy retirement, just moved to an administrative position.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2026/01/greg-bovino-demoted-minneapolis-border-patrol/685770/
Quote from: viper37 on January 27, 2026, 09:30:52 AMApparently, the Gestapo leader is out of a job. Sort of. Not even a cozzy retirement, just moved to an administrative position.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2026/01/greg-bovino-demoted-minneapolis-border-patrol/685770/
He'll be back at some point in other words
Looks like ICE is going to italy for the olympics? Must be nice for the fascists to go visit where it all started. Like a pilgrimage
Quote from: HVC on January 27, 2026, 11:14:02 AMLooks like ICE is going to italy for the olympics?
What?
https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/27/europe/italy-ice-agents-security-olympics-intl
Thanks for the link, I just heard it :)
It'd be funny if they got deported. Wonder if el salvador is willing to take Italian deporties.
Quote from: HVC on January 27, 2026, 11:14:02 AMLooks like ICE is going to italy for the olympics? Must be nice for the fascists to go visit where it all started. Like a pilgrimage
What the hell? Is ICE's jurisdiction the whole world and everything? I thought they were supposed to enforce customs and immigration?
There are available to do your king's bidding, wherever that may be.
Plus some of them, I am sure, have earned a winter vacation.
With such an assignment you can give them comfy hotel rooms etc and it's not like they have coloured people to worry about on the winter olympics, amiright
Quote from: HVC on January 27, 2026, 11:28:39 AMIt'd be funny if they got deported. Wonder if el salvador is willing to take Italian deporties.
Italy should really at least stop them from entering the country. We don't want them in the EU.
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2026, 11:31:50 AMQuote from: HVC on January 27, 2026, 11:14:02 AMLooks like ICE is going to italy for the olympics? Must be nice for the fascists to go visit where it all started. Like a pilgrimage
What the hell? Is ICE's jurisdiction the whole world and everything? I thought they were supposed to enforce customs and immigration?
To be fair, there are lots of non-US citizens in Italy.
QuoteThe chief federal judge in Minnesota says the Trump administration has failed to comply with orders to hold hearings for detained immigrants and ordered the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement to appear before him Friday to explain why he should not be held in contempt.
In an order dated Monday, Chief Judge Patrick J. Schiltz said Todd Lyons, the acting director of ICE, must appear personally in court. Schiltz took the administration to task over its handling of bond hearings for immigrants it has detained.
How many divisions does the federal judge of Minnesota have?
Quote from: viper37 on January 27, 2026, 09:30:52 AMApparently, the Gestapo leader is out of a job. Sort of. Not even a cozzy retirement, just moved to an administrative position.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2026/01/greg-bovino-demoted-minneapolis-border-patrol/685770/
Pretty sure Kristi Noem and Stephen Miller are still there.
Not to mention the shooters...
Quote from: Tamas on January 27, 2026, 01:15:33 PMHow many divisions does the federal judge of Minnesota have?
Four.
Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, and Fergus Falls.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 27, 2026, 02:44:33 PMNot to mention the shooters...
Didn't Jonathan Ross just sort of disappear? Maybe they moved him around like the Catholic Church does with pedo priests and now he is threatening suburban Moms in another state.
Not leaving you by the side of the road if you are a loyal servant is a core aspect of maffia states.
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2026, 03:26:47 PMQuote from: Tonitrus on January 27, 2026, 02:44:33 PMNot to mention the shooters...
Didn't Jonathan Ross just sort of disappear? Maybe they moved him around like the Catholic Church does with pedo priests and now he is threatening suburban Moms in another state.
The dude became a millionaire almost overnight after the shooting of Rene Good. He's set up for life.
Link (https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/jonathan-ross-net-worth-takes-a-big-leap-gofundme-givesendgo-over-1m-after-minneapolis-ice-shooting-renee-good-101768600701256.html)
First link I found 'cause I'm lazy, but there are others for the same news.
I look forward to a civil lawsuit that will take that million away.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 27, 2026, 09:29:30 PMI look forward to a civil lawsuit that will take that million away.
What are the chances he doesn't get qualified immunity?
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 27, 2026, 09:29:30 PMI look forward to a civil lawsuit that will take that million away.
And then some
Quote from: HVC on January 27, 2026, 09:33:07 PMQuote from: Tonitrus on January 27, 2026, 09:29:30 PMI look forward to a civil lawsuit that will take that million away.
What are the chances he doesn't get qualified immunity?
Qualified immunity doesn't protect federal officers if they committed crimes. Good was killed by the third, clearly criminal, shot.
And QI is one of those questionable precedents that should keep being tested in court at every opportunity.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2026, 01:12:42 PMSeems to me like two sides talking past each other.
The fact that camera phones are ubiquitous and the internet facilitates near instantaneous sharing of information is clearly a good thing, exposing the absurdity of the lies being pushed by officials in real time.
The fact social media is dominated by a small number of corporatized platforms motivated to privilege the spread of disinformation and slop is a bad thing.
Both things can be and are true at the same time.
Picking up on this, I fear we're just in a short window until AI video doctoring becomes good enough that it manages to completely muddle the picture (thanks also to social media) even when there's footage available of a controversial incident. Or even if there isn't.
One of the positives that came out of the death of poor Mr. Pretti is the fact that we're still capable of creating some sense of consensus around factual truth when it stares you in the face - even this morally bankrupt administration had to eventually walk back their lies - but how long will that last?
Yeah, AI is a worry (in Hungary, Fidesz is making heavy use of it already, although only in mocking videos I don't think they expect even their followers to truly believe authentic), but hopefully it will ultimately swing the pendulum back in the sense that it will make people seek out trustworthy, larger organisations (newspapers and such) as sources of news rather than relying on ChadAlpha69 on Twitter for their news updates.
Quote from: celedhring on January 28, 2026, 02:59:33 AMQuote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2026, 01:12:42 PMSeems to me like two sides talking past each other.
The fact that camera phones are ubiquitous and the internet facilitates near instantaneous sharing of information is clearly a good thing, exposing the absurdity of the lies being pushed by officials in real time.
The fact social media is dominated by a small number of corporatized platforms motivated to privilege the spread of disinformation and slop is a bad thing.
Both things can be and are true at the same time.
Picking up on this, I fear we're just in a short window until AI video doctoring becomes good enough that it manages to completely muddle the picture (thanks also to social media) even when there's footage available of a controversial incident. Or even if there isn't.
One of the positives that came out of the death of poor Mr. Pretti is the fact that we're still capable of creating some sense of consensus around factual truth when it stares you in the face - even this morally bankrupt administration had to eventually walk back their lies - but how long will that last?
Yes, AI imaging will make things worse. But social media misinformation is already here.
QuoteEverything I've done, I've done at the direction of the president and Stephen
--Kristi Noem
This is the moment where the wheels come off the Unitary Executive car, in a very public way.
For months, federal officers with no law enforcement training and little actual law enforcement authority have been terrorizing US cities, unleashing waves of indiscriminate violence. Understandably, the focus in the Pretti killing videos has been on the killing itself. But just a significant is that the videos capture that -- BEFORE the killing -- a scrum of disorganized masked agents assaulted two women and surrounded Pretti when in a fetal position, viciously kicking and punching him, with one agent smashing him with a metal cannister. I.e. an ordinary day of ICE "enforcement" in America.
But where does this come from? Is ICE shot through with rogue agents, willfully ignoring agency directives and flouting their superior orders? No they are following the marching orders given by their operational superior Gregory Bovino. But where does Bovino's authority come from? From the fact that he reported directly to Kristi Noem, the United States Secretary for Homeland Security.
Bingo - it's Noem. But Noem now says that she did not independently exercise her own powers and discretion. Rather, she acted at the "direction of the president and Stephen". But where is that direction to be found? The President has issued numerous executive orders on immigration, but none of them authorize the military-style deployments in the US interior and operating procedures that violate constitutional rights.
So what we have is a massive exercise of executive power, contrary to the constitution, but there is no written or public directive that could be subject to public scrutiny or court challenge. Rather, it is a direction made orally, or perhaps by implication through social media. Moreover, it is a direction not just (or perhaps even principally) from the President, but from "stephen," an advisor with no official authority whatsoever.
This all follows the logic of the Unitary Executive. Cabinet officers are mere passive flunkies, carrying out Presidential will. Since the Executive is synonymous with the person of the President, that will can be expressed informally, in monarchical fashion, thus escaping the rule of law. And like most monarchical regimes, true power will ultimately devolve to the overwhelmed or dissolute King's "wicked counsellors."
The Unitary Executive is not merely a semantic tautology attempting to masquerade as constitutional theory. It is a direct threat to the rule of law and the American constitutional order.
https://join.justice.gov/
(https://i.ibb.co/6RWFNKTZ/image.png)
QuoteDEFINE AMERICA FOR GENERATIONS
- 70 Nationwide locations
- Potential for remote and intermittent work/full-time telework
- Preside over cases in federal Immigration Court and determine whether an alien has to leave the United States or gets to stay
- Make decisions with generational consequences; ensure that only aliens with legally meritorious claims are allowed to remain
- Ensure adherence to the law; combat fraud and ensure those seeking to exploit vulnerabilities in our immigration system are not successful
- Restore integrity and honor to our Nation's Immigration Court system
At least they admit that they lack integrity and honor.
Damn Bruce Springsteen is old now.
"Potential for remote and intermittent work/full-time telework"
That's fucking hilarious, after forcing all government employees to go back into an office or get fired.
There is no such thing as a "deportation judge"
Maybe these idiots should read the damn federal code before they solicit candidates for a job involving "adherence to the law"
QuoteThe term immigration judge means an attorney whom the Attorney General appoints as an administrative judge within the Executive Office for Immigration Review, qualified to conduct specified classes of proceedings, including a hearing under section 240 of the Act. An immigration judge shall be subject to such supervision and shall perform such duties as the Attorney General shall prescribe, but shall not be employed by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
8 CFR § 1001.1(l)
There really is no end to the cretinous illiteracy of this administration.
Why does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
Quote from: Tamas on January 28, 2026, 04:10:16 AMYeah, AI is a worry (in Hungary, Fidesz is making heavy use of it already, although only in mocking videos I don't think they expect even their followers to truly believe authentic), but hopefully it will ultimately swing the pendulum back in the sense that it will make people seek out trustworthy, larger organisations (newspapers and such) as sources of news rather than relying on ChadAlpha69 on Twitter for their news updates.
Maybe - I think there'll be a reaction against it to some extent. But I also worry the opposite is happening and worry that we're heading into a more oral, post-literate world of rumour and anecdote and re-enchantment and "seems like".
It would go along with the re-monarchization of our political culture.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 03:38:27 PMWhy does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
We're to the point where we can just reuse the Soviet jokes. :(
Quote from: DGuller on January 28, 2026, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 03:38:27 PMWhy does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
We're to the point where we can just reuse the Soviet jokes. :(
I've been checking the front page of the newspaper for an obituary every day.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 06:41:29 PMQuote from: DGuller on January 28, 2026, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 03:38:27 PMWhy does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
We're to the point where we can just reuse the Soviet jokes. :(
I've been checking the front page of the newspaper for an obituary every day.
"But obituaries aren't on the front page."
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 28, 2026, 05:19:08 PMIt would go along with the re-monarchization of our political culture.
Yeah.
Weirdly I've been reading Gyorgy Lukacs recently - I'm not an expert and I've nothing concrete from it. But while I'm nodding along, I'm also not sure what will be produced with the new oral/video first communication or knowledge production and economic structure.
(There is nothing to make you mourn for the old haute bourgeois like reading an inter-war Marxist and then looking at the cultural detritus of our elites.)
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 28, 2026, 05:19:08 PMIt would go along with the re-monarchization of our political culture.
Did we ever stop that?
:whistle:
First day in weeks I open MSN.ca and there's no news about Meghan Markle, one of the Prince, the King, the Queen in waiting or some other royal somewhere else.
(yeah, yeah, I know, now what Oex meant).
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 28, 2026, 09:00:33 PMQuote from: Sheilbh on January 28, 2026, 07:21:49 PMQuote from: Oexmelin on January 28, 2026, 05:19:08 PMIt would go along with the re-monarchization of our political culture.
Yeah.
Weirdly I've been reading Gyorgy Lukacs recently - I'm not an expert and I've nothing concrete from it. But while I'm nodding along, I'm also not sure what will be produced with the new oral/video first communication or knowledge production and economic structure.
(There is nothing to make you mourn for the old haute bourgeois like reading an inter-war Marxist and then looking at the cultural detritus of our elites.)
(https://doctorak.co/boutique/images/georg_lukacs.jpg)
DHS agent carries no ID, has a weapon on him, does not want to comply with officer instructions for DUI.
Let me recapitulate:
- This administration did say Americans should carry an ID at all time?
- This administration did say carrying a gun made you a criminal in certain situation?
- This administration did say refusing to comply with law enforcement was a valid reason to be shot?
Well, he got off easy, all things considered. If these officers had followed standard DHS procedures, he would have been unalived in front of his kids.
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2026, 07:20:28 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 06:41:29 PMQuote from: DGuller on January 28, 2026, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 03:38:27 PMWhy does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
We're to the point where we can just reuse the Soviet jokes. :(
I've been checking the front page of the newspaper for an obituary every day.
"But obituaries aren't on the front page."
Quote from: grumbler on January 28, 2026, 07:20:28 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 06:41:29 PMQuote from: DGuller on January 28, 2026, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2026, 03:38:27 PMWhy does ICE always travel in threes?
One to read, one to write, and one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
We're to the point where we can just reuse the Soviet jokes. :(
I've been checking the front page of the newspaper for an obituary every day.
"But obituaries aren't on the front page."
The one I'm waiting for will be.
Time to bring back the Irving Berlin classic...
Can't be arsed to translate, and there's likely to be an English news link somewhere.
But in the meantime, to the general surprise of no one, ICE is tailoring its recruiting message in a not so subtle way to appeal to white supremacists.
Here's the original link (https://www.lapresse.ca/international/etats-unis/2026-01-29/recrutement-de-l-ice/des-messages-font-appel-aux-supremacistes-blancs.php)
Some of the posters:
(https://mobile-img.lpcdn.ca/v2/924x/5d69b57446ab361388c1f13564b3e070.jpg)
(https://mobile-img.lpcdn.ca/v2/924x/e2bcf5b92ada37619604d8b98072a90d.jpg)
CBC front burner podcast had that topic this morning
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/front-burner/id1439621628?i=1000747153063
A local cop intervened to stop this arrest by ICE. If Americans are willing to treat each other in this imported GWOT-style it's no wonder they're tariffing former allies and demanding Greenland. This is also how you get Americans to 2nd Amendment each other.
https://x.com/David_J_Bier/status/2017631864337437034 (https://x.com/David_J_Bier/status/2017631864337437034)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZRWgVzPB/image.png)
These are the dastardly bomb-throwing anarchists in top hats we're looking for?
:lol: OMG I know crying over this state of affairs is more appropriate but we have crossed so much into the absurd.
Respect for them and the others putting their safety and freedom on the line while most of their country continues to enjoy the comforts they are not aware are at grave risk.
Indeed. Massive respect to these women and others like them.
My God, not anarchists in pink heart shirts, the horror!
The poor Homeland Sec agents, they only have 2 officers to keep hold of the deadly giant in the white poofy coat.
It's almost like they are trying to parody themselves.
Poofy jacket girl is a teaching assistant in a special education school. Arrested in the school parking lot.
"anarchist" What a joke.
I hope there's a mobilization of legal resources to support the people being arrested.
Do we know what happened to these women and others like them who've been detained for protesting against ICE?
Just remember: the goal is much less to win an eventual case, and much more to convince people to remain home and be fearful about protests.
Pretty much. This will be an effective cudgel until someone physically stops DHS from picking people up for bullshit reasons. Obviously less effective than if charges stuck, but most people will be put off by the thought of the run-in itself.
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2026, 02:44:58 PMJust remember: the goal is much less to win an eventual case, and much more to convince people to remain home and be fearful about protests.
And justify the deployment of ICE etc on the streets of cities. Which would also convince pele to remain home and be (more justifiably) fearful of the ruling party's paramilitaries.
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2026, 02:44:58 PMJust remember: the goal is much less to win an eventual case, and much more to convince people to remain home and be fearful about protests.
Agreed. That's the administration's goals. Just like it's their goal to keep repercussions from reaching individual ICE agents.
Conversely, the goals for the resistance is to support these people as much as possible. If individual arrestees have their lives ruined and their fellow protestors, friends, and families turn their back on them then the arrests will have their intended effect.
If the arrestees are supported and celebrated - if their situations turn into embarrassing legal cases for the government, if it doesn't end up impacting their lives that much, and if supportive and celebratory narratives flourish on social and traditional media - then the policy of intimidation may end up being counter-productive for the regime.
Oex you've often talked about the necessities of civil organization and resisting where you can. One (possible) upside of these arrests is that they can (potentially) serve as locuses of further organization. If there are civil minded lawyers ready to fight the government on each of these cases that can become both a vector for actively fighting the regimes repression, and even for mobilizing further support.
So I'm hoping there are lawyers out there willing to help, which is why I'm asking.
I have seldom seem a less scary looking bunch of people than this bunch of "domestic terrorists" :(
Couldn't ICE even be bothered to find some big tough guys to arrest?
I thing they may have very sharp tongues that could hurt a male ego. :unsure:
Quote from: Norgy on February 04, 2026, 06:43:37 AMI thing they may have very sharp tongues that could hurt a male ego. :unsure:
:yes:
Richard clearly lacks the necessary low level of self confidence required to see the real threat here.
The transcript of the case is quite the read.
QuoteAn ICE attorney who publicly expressed frustrations with her role and told a court "this job sucks" is no longer detailed to the US attorney's office for the district of Minnesota, according to NBC News.
"The system sucks. This job sucks," Julie Le, an attorney representing the US attorney's office in Minnesota, said in response to a federal judge's questions on why ICE has repeatedly failed to comply with court orders.
"I wish you would hold me in contempt so I would have a full 24 hours sleep," she added in comments that quickly went viral.
US district judge Jerry Blackwell had ordered Le, as well as assistant US attorney Ana Voss, to appear in his St Paul courtroom on Tuesday to explain why the DHS missed multiple deadlines to release five detainees who the judge said never should have been arrested in the first place.
A court order is not advisory, and it is not conditional," Blackwell said. "It is not something that any agency can treat as optional as it decides how or whether to comply."
During the hearing, Le acknowledged that many at the DHS did not understand the seriousness of an order from a federal judge.
"It took a long, long, long time, and many orders to show cause to explain and let them know that if you don't fix it, I'm going to quit and you're going to be dragging yourself into court," she said.
Le said that she moved from her job as an ICE lawyer to the Minnesota US attorney's office on 5 January to help it respond to an influx of civil filings of detainees, known as petitions of habeas corpus.
Le also told the court that she had previously submitted her resignation, after handling more than 88 immigration cases in less than a month. She ultimately ended up staying in the role because there was no one to replace her.
Le's testimony took place amid intense scrutiny of the ICE operations in Minnesota, which have resulted in the detention of adults and children without criminal records, including Liam Ramos, the five-year-old in the viral photograph being detained by ICE agents in his bunny hat.
Tom Homan, the White House border czar, announced on Wednesday that about 700 federal agents would leave Minnesota, a large drop in agents on the ground but still leaving about 2,000 agents there, far above typical levels for the state.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/04/ice-attorney-minnesota-removed-after-court-statement
Viewable here.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26871634-19-ts-of-020326-hearing-segundo-apg-v-bondi-26-cv-603/
This is another demonstration why, when I referred to the operation in Minnesota as a "shit show," it was a both a gross understatement, and an unfair aspersion cast on honest purveyors of feces-based entertainment.
QuoteMs Le: what I can tell you too is, Judge, that most of the e-mail was sent to my DOJ e-mail. And I did not received it until it was too late. And I still am having trouble accessing my DOJ e-mail. . . If it's sent to a DOJ one, I don't have a way to access the system.
The Court: So are you telling the Court that you were brought in brand new, a shiny, brand new penny into this role, and you received no proper orientation or training on what you were supposed to do?
MS. LE: I have to say yes to that question, Your Honor
THE COURT: So is then each attorney within your office making up his or her own process?
MS. LE: I don't know about that, Your Honor, but as the SAUSAs attorney, there are four of us, and we are trying to figure out what do we need to do to handle this operation . . .
So for that, again, it was during the assignment in the second week of -- on the job. Again, at this time I have not sworn as a U.S. Attorney to present or have cases in front of Your Honor, so all -- everything goesto the chief. I get nothing, no notification, nothing at all, except for whatever that was sent to me to work on. I received the assignment on the 12th . . . And on the 14, I file my response with the Court. I receive the court order through all the e-mail exchanges within the office . . .
The Court: On January 15th, there was an order from this Court that he had been ordered released and respondent shall confirm the date, time, and location of petitioner's release within 48 hours from the date of this order on the 15th.January 17th, which was the date you were referring to, is when you first --
MS. LE: Received the order.
THE COURT: -- received the order because it didn't get to you within your office
QuoteTHE COURT: And do you feel there's anything wrong with taking hours or days to fly them out of Minnesota -- - to fly them out of Minnesota and then take 13 days to return them when they've been found to have been unlawfully detained?
MS. LE: Your Honor, I did ask the same question too. I have not got the answer
res ipsa loquitur
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 05, 2026, 12:21:54 PMViewable here.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26871634-19-ts-of-020326-hearing-segundo-apg-v-bondi-26-cv-603/
This is another demonstration why, when I referred to the operation in Minnesota as a "shit show," it was a both a gross understatement, and an unfair aspersion cast on honest purveyors of feces-based entertainment.
:D
I had to chuckle when Tom Homan made all his threats about prosecuting protestors for obstruction. They can make all the arrests they want, but the feds in Minnesota don't have the personnel to prosecute those cases.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 05, 2026, 12:40:00 PMres ipsa loquitur
The government lawyers who understand your post have already resigned.