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Heard a Canadian has a chance to be pope. All hail Pope Canuck, first of his name.
Quote from: HVC on April 21, 2025, 11:14:16 AMHeard a Canadian has a chance to be pope. All hail Pope Canuck, first of his name.
at some point it'll be an african or an asian again. It's been since roman times since we've had any from there
I think the Global South countries are going to be dominating the Papacy for awhile. At least my feeling was Francis had pushed things in that direction.
But it isn't like I have any special insight into who or what priorities the Cardinals have.
I wish I didn't care, but with the recent emergency of right wing Catholics dominating the MAGA movement having a Pope sympathetic to them could be very bad.
The bookies seem to favor a progressive Filipino cardinal.
Quote from: Maladict on April 21, 2025, 12:56:01 PMThe bookies seem to favor a progressive Filipino cardinal.
So basically a bit to the right of B16. :P
IIRC there's a Swedish candidate for anti-Christ.
Only one? Swedish Black and Death Metal bands disagree I bet.
Some of the candidates have cool titles. The best I saw is Cardinal Grand Master of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre.
Quote from: Zanza on April 21, 2025, 01:19:18 PMGrand Master of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre.
Sounds like one of those landless titles you could give out in CK2.
I'm going to call my shot:
Next pope is Mykola Bychok, a Ukrainian Greek Catholic, born and trained in Ukraine although currently serving in Australia, and the youngest current Cardinal at age 45.
Uniate priests are allowed to marry, although Bychok started out as a monk so I think he is chaste (as a married Pope might otherwise be - unusual, if technically permitted for a Uniate).
I am almost certainly wrong, but what the heck. It would be quite the message.
Ignoring the other implausibilities, 45 is way too young.
Putting a Ukrainian Pope in there would sure be a nice slap in the face to JD Vance.
But I don't think it will happen.
Quote from: The Brain on April 21, 2025, 01:11:20 PMIIRC there's a Swedish candidate for anti-Christ.
I'd vote for you if you'd like.
Technically one doesn't have to be a cardinal to become pope. So I might put my name in.
Quote from: Josephus on April 21, 2025, 03:10:35 PMTechnically one doesn't have to be a cardinal to become pope. So I might put my name in.
So you did put your name into the goblet of fire!
I don't think they are voting in anyone under the age of 70.
Peter Erdo - 72
Marc Ouellet at 80 could satisfy the global south for a couple of years while their good candidates age a little more.
Quote from: Josephus on April 21, 2025, 03:10:35 PMTechnically one doesn't have to be a cardinal to become pope. So I might put my name in.
The last time that happened it led to the Western Schism. Just saying.
Yeah, Tagle would be a good choice, but I don't think they'll elect someone who is "only" 67.
I'm going with Pierbattista Pizzaballa. :pope:
While I love the name, Pizza Baller is definitely too young. The cardinals have seemed hesitant to go for a candidate who's expected to last more than 15 years or so.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 21, 2025, 04:58:23 PMWhile I love the name, Pizza Baller is definitely too young. The cardinals have seemed hesitant to go for a candidate who's expected to last more than 15 years or so.
They all want a turn.
Clearly, Joe Biden should be the new Pope. He's the right age.
Hopefully the Papacy leads the way in learning from Trump and not going for a far right nut as has been long expected.
I mean sure, it's the pope. He's not going to be a progressive idol. But Francis was cool as priests of conservative religions go.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 21, 2025, 04:58:23 PMWhile I love the name, Pizza Baller is definitely too young. The cardinals have seemed hesitant to go for a candidate who's expected to last more than 15 years or so.
They need the deccenial media circus to retain relevance?
The Archbishop from Kabul?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 22, 2025, 10:07:19 AMThe Archbishop from Kabul?
There is none. There was a Mission
sui Juris before the Taliban take over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan)
There is a Bishops' conference of Central Asia, however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia)
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2025, 11:36:03 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on April 22, 2025, 10:07:19 AMThe Archbishop from Kabul?
There is none. There was a Mission sui Juris before the Taliban take over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan)
There is a Bishops' conference of Central Asia, however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia)
It's a reference...
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 22, 2025, 11:38:26 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2025, 11:36:03 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on April 22, 2025, 10:07:19 AMThe Archbishop from Kabul?
There is none. There was a Mission sui Juris before the Taliban take over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_sui_iuris_of_Afghanistan)
There is a Bishops' conference of Central Asia, however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops%27_Conference_of_Central_Asia)
It's a reference...
Nestorius is a better one for Central Asia, despite not being catholic though these days historians are not sure if Nestorius was really... nestorian.
Watch Conclave - its really quite a good movie. Won the Oscar for best screen play and I think well deserved.
The Archbishop of Kabul is a character that plays a role in the movie.
Can't say I remembered the movie.
Besides, Oscars are hardly an argument these days.
This is how a a pre-conclave could (not should ?) like :
FB video link
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16HX7MhZ2L/
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2025, 05:15:42 AMCan't say I remembered the movie.
Besides, Oscars are hardly an argument these days.
This is how a a pre-conclave could (not should ?) like :
FB video link
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16HX7MhZ2L/
It's on streamers. Amazon Prime has it for free. Well worth it. Based on a book by Robert Harris.
And there very well may be a cardinal in Kabul.....
Elect an African pope, get MAGA people in America raise up again the old anti-Catholic fever, detach latino voters from Republicans.
Quote from: Josephus on April 23, 2025, 06:21:01 AMBased on a book by Robert Harris.
Does it have Xaver März in it?
Quote from: Josephus on April 23, 2025, 06:21:01 AMIt's on streamers. Amazon Prime has it for free. Well worth it. Based on a book by Robert Harris.
And there very well may be a cardinal in Kabul.....
Yeah, but you need to pay for Amazon Prime France, assuming Bezos France has it. Other streamers offering it are not free over here, as well.
It's too bad that Jewish guy from France who was Papabile circa 2005 or so isn't around any longer. A Jewish pope would kick ass! :showoff:
Just don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2025, 08:26:18 PMJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Pope JD Vance.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 23, 2025, 09:02:11 PMQuote from: Valmy on April 23, 2025, 08:26:18 PMJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Pope JD Vance.
At least with a Damien antichrist pope someone on Languish would feel vindicated. :D
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 23, 2025, 09:02:11 PMQuote from: Valmy on April 23, 2025, 08:26:18 PMJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Pope JD Vance.
Sounds like a sucky dj
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 23, 2025, 09:02:11 PMQuote from: Valmy on April 23, 2025, 08:26:18 PMJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Pope JD Vance.
Yeah. That might as well happen.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 21, 2025, 03:18:34 PMI don't think they are voting in anyone under the age of 70.
Peter Erdo - 72
Marc Ouellet at 80 could satisfy the global south for a couple of years while their good candidates age a little more.
I agree - but I very much doubt they'd go for one over 80 either. Ouellet probably had his chance in 2013. And with Francis they elected a 77 year old with one and a half lungs so probably didn't expect him to actually do much :lol:
FWIW - and this would have been my guess in 2013 too so I know nothing (and no-one does) - I suspect they'll want an Italian. it's been almost 50 years of foreign popes, I think there might be a sense that it's time to give Rome an Italian bishop again. I agree I don't think they'll want someone too young (or too old) - I don't think they want another JPII.
On a purely aesthetic level I think they want an accessories pope (and, why not). It has been noted semi-jokingly how the cardinals all immediately got out the fancy vestments and cracked out the golden pectoral crosses which we haven't seen since Benedict's pontificate - maybe not fully someone wanting to crack out the red Pradas, but definitely a bit more of a fancy pope.
QuoteHopefully the Papacy leads the way in learning from Trump and not going for a far right nut as has been long expected.
:lol: The Pope will continue to be Catholic - like JPII and Benedict and Francis they wlll oppose abortion in all circumstances, there will not be women priests, homosexuality will be a sin. This stuff is not going to change (never say never - but certainly not in my lifetime). At the same time they'll almost certainly have robust things to say (as JPII, Benedict and especially Francis did) on the environment, against neo-liberalism (and indeed, original flavour liberalism), for migrants and the marginalised.
As my favourite Catholic writer put it the Catholic Church is about nine times older than the left-right divide. Even including that, there's about twenty different axes the cardinals can be plotted against and three of those are specifically about being Italian :P
QuoteWatch Conclave - its really quite a good movie. Won the Oscar for best screen play and I think well deserved.
It's mad but it is very fun and really beautiful (any film set in the Vatican has a cheat code for cinematography) - I enjoyed it a lot. Also fantastic sound design.
Conclave's getting all the attention for obvious reasons but on recent papal films I also think the Two Popes is pretty good. A lot of the other stuff I could do without but just the scenes of Anthony Hopkins as Benedict and Jonathan Pryce as Francis are fantastic.
Although on Conclave stuff - absolutely love that Cardinal Becciu, dismissed from his curial offices by Francis, then arrested, charged and convicted (by a Vatican court) of embezzlenment and other financial crimes has insisted on his right to vote. I believe he's in prison and insists he's the victim of a Curia conspiracy. But apparently Pope Francis left a letter with the Secretary of State banning him from attending the conclave. Which is very Cardinal Lawrence and a nun with photocopier.
QuoteIt's too bad that Jewish guy from France who was Papabile circa 2005 or so isn't around any longer. A Jewish pope would kick ass! :showoff:
The last Pope who was probably of Jewish descent was St Gregory VII (from a prominent Roman family that converted). Given that he led the papal revolution, was the "terror of princes", instituted the imperial papacy and deposed an Emperor they're probably going to hold off :ph34r:
QuoteJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
I think 99% of the MAGA or not is to do with internal politics of the American Catholic right. Whoever the Pope is doesn't actually matter - whoever it is there'll be some negative polarisation of them as a MAGA/not MAGA pope which may or may not be connected to reality and may or may not change over time.
Flagged by Matt Sitman but in 2016 the common criticism of the American Catholic right (Ross Douthat, George Weigel, First Things) was that Pope Francis basically was Donald Trump - they were both populist, personalist, disrespectful of traditions, institutions and their predcessors etc. It said more about their reaction to the 2016 primaries than Pope Francis. In 2020 you've got some with the same line and others including the mad Archbishop Vigano at Stop the Steal seeing Francis as part of a globalist cabal. None of this has anything to do with Francis or the Catholic Church it's just the American Catholic right's pathologies, neuroticisms and routes to money-making. It will reveal more about hem than anything about the Pope.
I forgot how surreal it is for all the international news agencies to be live streaming a chimney for hours on end.
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2025, 12:17:12 PMI forgot how surreal it is for all the international news agencies to be live streaming a chimney for hours on end.
And yet it's probably the 3rd time in our lives they're focused on it
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 07, 2025, 12:32:57 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 07, 2025, 12:17:12 PMI forgot how surreal it is for all the international news agencies to be live streaming a chimney for hours on end.
And yet it's probably the 3rd time in our lives they're focused on it
Maybe 4th; John Paul I did not last long.
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2025, 12:17:12 PMI forgot how surreal it is for all the international news agencies to be live streaming a chimney for hours on end.
I don't think that's surreal, unless the chimney is also a sea urchin. It sounds more like a Warhol film instead.
;)
Quote from: Valmy on May 07, 2025, 12:17:12 PMI forgot how surreal it is for all the international news agencies to be live streaming a chimney for hours on end.
Beats a lot of their normal coverage.
On why the first ballot was delayed - it was a huge mistake letting a charismatic speak :lol:
QuoteAusten Ivereigh
@austeni
I'm hearing that Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa, who was slated to give the cardinals their pep talk after the extra omnes, went on for 50 minutes rather than his allotted 15.
They need music like awards shows to drown the cardinals out :lol:
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 24, 2025, 06:06:10 AMQuote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 23, 2025, 09:02:11 PMQuote from: Valmy on April 23, 2025, 08:26:18 PMJust don't want a Maga friendly reactionary Pope.
Please Catholic Jesus deliver us
Pope JD Vance.
Sounds like a sucky dj
Its Pope JD Vance cracking down on vice, I'm the whitest MC since Vanilla ICE
QuoteThe Pope will continue to be Catholic - like JPII and Benedict and Francis they wlll oppose abortion in all circumstances, there will not be women priests, homosexuality will be a sin. This stuff is not going to change (never say never - but certainly not in my lifetime). At the same time they'll almost certainly have robust things to say (as JPII, Benedict and especially Francis did) on the environment, against neo-liberalism (and indeed, original flavour liberalism), for migrants and the marginalised.
As my favourite Catholic writer put it the Catholic Church is about nine times older than the left-right divide. Even including that, there's about twenty different axes the cardinals can be plotted against and three of those are specifically about being Italian :P
Reading summaries of the lead candidates though I can see nuances.
I'd much rather have a "Gay? Tut tut. Shame on you sinner." guy than a "Burn the sodomites!" one.
Quote from: HVC on May 07, 2025, 05:59:36 PMThey need music like awards shows to drown the cardinals out :lol:
The first Scandinavian Cardinal (at least since the Reformation) very much fitting the stereotype :lol:
QuoteJoel Halldorf
@joelsh
"Everyone is tired of the Italians, they use so many words and always exceed the allotted five minutes."
- Cardinal Anders Arborelius, when I interviewed him yesterday, on the proceedings during the general congregation.
Portrait of Arborelius just before he entered the conclave. We stopped for an icecream and he mentioned that he has not made a single intervention during the general congregation. Not gone to the Vatican to network. He has remained in his monastery.
I'm sure they are taking atheist, anti-Catholic viewpoint into consideration when picking a new Pope.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2025, 06:04:52 AMQuote from: HVC on May 07, 2025, 05:59:36 PMThey need music like awards shows to drown the cardinals out :lol:
The first Scandinavian Cardinal (at least since the Reformation) very much fitting the stereotype :lol:
QuoteJoel Halldorf
@joelsh
"Everyone is tired of the Italians, they use so many words and always exceed the allotted five minutes."
- Cardinal Anders Arborelius, when I interviewed him yesterday, on the proceedings during the general congregation.
Portrait of Arborelius just before he entered the conclave. We stopped for an icecream and he mentioned that he has not made a single intervention during the general congregation. Not gone to the Vatican to network. He has remained in his monastery.
So the Brain is a conclave cardinal now? At least, he could get an ™Antichrist™ of his choosing.
Curiosity question for our anglo friends. Why the Sixtine chapel is named "Sistine" in english? I mean, the pope behind its construction was Sixtus IV (Sixte IV in french).
I'd guess just because it's Capella Sistina in Italian and we picked up the name from them rather than the actual source/official name?
For a moment I thought Raz was calling Cardinal Arborelius an atheist anti-Catholic :lol:
... but I think he was talking to Josq.
I'm anti-catholic? :unsure:
Habemus papam
Quote from: Jacob on May 08, 2025, 10:22:14 AMFor a moment I thought Raz was calling Cardinal Arborelius an atheist anti-Catholic :lol:
... but I think he was talking to Josq.
I have absolutely no idea what Raz was babbling about there. Was anybody out here suggesting that anti-Catholic atheists were going to vote in the Conclave?
POPE INCOMING!
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:srnkqtcpptdtesojmwbgoek2/bafkreicfo37btcx5s7vkfplxij4yyk5laridfv52izid7oli2gl2pux3vi@jpeg)
Habemus Papam!
I predict a conservative old white man.
With glasses or without?
It could be anyone :w00t:
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2025, 12:03:12 PMI predict a conservative old white man.
So long as it isn't a fascist one.
Robert Prevost from the USA
An American Pope? Leo XIV
Um...who is this guy? Robert Prevost?
He is a Peruvian Citizen. It seems that he was Francis' choice to succeed him. That sounds reassuring.
But from Chicago.
(https://i.imgflip.com/9tb3i3.jpg)
So... New guy is big on child abuse but otherwise ok?
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2025, 12:03:12 PMI predict a conservative old white man.
I would have preferred an ultra-conservative black man for the identity politics people, such as Robert Sarah, cardinal of Conakry. :P
There goes any chance of getting deep dish "pizza" declared blasphemy...
Quote from: Josquius on May 08, 2025, 12:20:09 PMSo... New guy is big on child abuse but otherwise ok?
No idea. I freaked out a bit when I heard he was American, considering how psychotic our Catholics are these days, but it seems he has been in Peru and then in the Vatican for years. And a protege of the last guy.
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2025, 12:26:54 PMQuote from: Josquius on May 08, 2025, 12:20:09 PMSo... New guy is big on child abuse but otherwise ok?
No idea. I freaked out a bit when I heard he was American, considering how crypto-protestant our Catholics are these days, but it seems he has been in Peru and then in the Vatican for years. And a protege of the last guy.
Fixed! :P
I see he is from the order of Saint Augustine, as Martin Luther, so the Brain will be happy. :lol:
Quote from: Josquius on May 08, 2025, 10:37:06 AMI'm anti-catholic? :unsure:
I don't think so, but you're a more likely candidate than an actual cardinal... I think :unsure:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2025, 12:29:52 PMI see he is from the order of Saint Augustine, as Martin Luther, so the Brain will be happy. :lol:
:lol: :pope:
An interesting choice. He's a safe pair of hands, handpicked by his predecessor.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 08, 2025, 12:25:49 PMThere goes any chance of getting deep dish "pizza" declared blasphemy...
Pizza casserole, Italian beef, high taxes, aging infrastructure, and rampant corruption for all! :pope:
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2025, 02:18:16 PMQuote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 08, 2025, 12:25:49 PMThere goes any chance of getting deep dish "pizza" declared blasphemy...
Pizza casserole, Italian beef, high taxes, aging infrastructure, and rampant corruption for all! :pope:
Quite an improvement for the US. :P
(https://media.surlyhorns.com/monthly_2025_05/FB_IMG_1746731177414.jpg.ea05984cc2d307de2147b9bd15221921.jpg)
Well damn. I guess this new Pope will work out great.
The Vatican is a Communist state.
In my personal fantasy dictatorship, inaccurate use of the term Marxist would be a criminal offense. It's the worst political cringe.
Ah, would it be if it were
Of course the Chicago guy won, the other Cardinals made the mistake of only bringing a knife to a conclave. Especially Pizzabolla who had one of those circular ones.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2025, 03:38:24 PMEspecially Pizzabolla who had one of those circular ones.
He shoulda at least brought the mezzaluna.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 08, 2025, 03:19:24 PMIn my personal fantasy dictatorship, inaccurate use of the term Marxist would be a criminal offense. It's the worst political cringe.
It is pretty annoying. I put that up there with "America is not a Democracy, it's a Republic."
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2025, 03:04:17 PMWell damn. I guess this new Pope will work out great.
The Vatican is a Communist state.
Set up a second, pro-Trump pope at Avignon. :hmm:
Quote from: Josquius on May 08, 2025, 12:20:09 PMSo... New guy is big on child abuse but otherwise ok?
When it comes to mainstream press, this is the first time they've even heard of the guy and are just looking for the key points and controversies from a quick search - I remember for the first few weeks of his pontificate the Guardian especially, but media generally were writing about Francis as the "junta's Pope".
Choosing Leo obviously carries a lot of symbolism. Leo XIII issued Rerum Novarum which is the foundational document of Catholic social teaching (much advanced by Francis). Very exciting if, like me, you're a big fan of that school of thinking about economics and the world (genuinely recommend people read Fratelli Also love that the first American Pope chose the name of the Pope who condemned the heresy of Americanism - and in talk of "MAGA Popes" and the politicisation of the church in the US, I think there's a non-zero chance we go another round of Rome v Americanism.
John Allen was doing a Papabile of the day, here's his take on Prevost:
Quote'Papabile' of the Day: Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost
ROME – Once upon a time, it was said that the idea of an American pope was unthinkable. In the beginning, it was for basically logistical reasons – steamships from the New World took so long to reach Rome that American cardinals often arrived too late to vote, and in any event they were never part of the political sausage-grinding before the conclave began.
Later, the veto on an American pope became geopolitical. You couldn't have a "superpower pope," or so the thinking ran, because too many people around the world would wonder if papal decisions were really being crafted in the Vatican or at CIA headquarters in Langley.
Today, however, that logic feels superannuated. America is no longer the world's lone superpower, and, in any event, dynamics inside the College of Cardinals have changed. Geography is largely dead as a voting issue; cardinals no longer care what passport a candidate holds, but rather what spiritual, political and personal profile he embodies.
As it happens, there is an American this time around with a serious shot: 69-year-old Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost, who served as head of the Vatican's ultra-powerful Dicastery for Bishops under Pope Francis for the past two years. That made him responsible for advising the pope on picking new bishops around the world, which is, inter alia, a great way to make friends in the Catholic hierarchy.
As his fellow prelates have gotten to know the former Augustinian superior, many of them like what they see: A moderate, balanced figure, known for solid judgment and a keen capacity to listen, and someone who doesn't need to pound his chest to be heard.
Born in Chicago in 1955 into a family of Italian, French and Spanish origins, Prevost went to high school at a minor seminary run by the Order of St. Augustine, called the "Augustinians." From there he enrolled at Villanova University in Philadelphia, eventually earning an undergraduate degree in mathematics in 1977. He joined the Augustinians the same year and began studies at the Catholic Theological Union, where he earned a Master of Divinity degree in 1982. (Prevost is actually the first CTU alumnus to be named a cardinal.)
Next he was shipped off to Rome, where he earned a doctorate degree in canon law from the Dominican-run University of St. Thomas Aquinas, popularly known as the "Angelicum."
In 1985 Prevost joined the Augustinian mission in Peru. His leadership qualities were quickly recognized, as he was named chancellor of the territorial prelature of Chulucanas from 1985 to 1986. He spent a couple of years back in Chicago as the pastor for vocations for his Augustinian province before returning to Peru, where he would spend the next decade running an Augustinian seminary in Trujillo while also teaching canon law and serving as prefect of studies in the diocesan seminary.
There's an old rule in clerical life, which is that competence is its own curse – your workload tends to expand in direct proportion to the perception that you're gifted at getting things done. Thus it was that in addition to his day jobs, Prevost also put in stints as a parish priest, an official at diocesan headquarters, a director of formation for Trujillo and the judicial vicar for the diocese.
Prevost returned to Chicago again in 1999, this time to serve as prior of his province. It was during this period that he would have a brush with the clerical sexual abuse scandals, signing off on a decision to allow an accused priest to reside in a priory close to a school. Though the move would later draw fire from critics, it came before the US bishops adopted new standards in 2002 for handling such cases, and his signature was basically a formality for a deal that had already been worked out between the archdiocese and the accused priest's spiritual advisor and overseer of a safety plan.
In 2001 Prevost was elected the Prior General of the worldwide Augustinian order, with its headquarters in Rome at the Augustinian Pontifical Patristic Institute, known as the "Augustinianum," which is located immediately adjacent to St. Peter's Square and tends to be prime real estate for meeting visiting clergy and bishops from around the world. Prevost would serve two terms in the post, earning a reputation as a deft leader and administrator, before returning briefly to Chicago from 2013 to 2014 as a director of formation for the order.
In November 2014 Pope Francis appointed Prevost apostolic administrator of the Diocese of Chiclayo in Peru, and a year later he became the diocesan bishop. Historically speaking, the Peruvian bishops have been badly divided between a left wing close to the liberation theology movement and a right wing close to Opus Dei. In that volatile mix, Prevost came to be seen as a moderating influence, reflected in the fact that he served on the conference's permanent council and as vice-president from 2018 to 2023.
This past February, Pope Francis inducted Prevost into the exclusive order of Cardinal Bishops, a clear sign of papal trust and favor – and this despite the fact, according to observers, that Prevost and the late pontiff didn't always see eye-to-eye, but Francis nevertheless saw in the American prelate a man he felt he could rely upon.
What's the case for Prevost?
Fundamentally, there are three qualities cardinals look for every time they have to kick the tires on a possible pope: They want a missionary, someone who can put a positive face on the faith; a statesman, someone who can stand on the global stage with the Donald Trumps, Vladimir Putins and Xi Jinpings of the world and hold his own; and a governor, someone who can take control of the Vatican and make the trains run on time, including dealing with its financial crisis.
There's a solid argument Prevost ticks all three boxes.
He spent much of his career in Peru as a missionary, and parts of the rest of it in seminary and formation work, giving him an appreciation for what it takes to keep the fires of faith lit. His global experience would be an asset in the challenges of statecraft, and his naturally reserved and equanimous personality might well lend itself to the art of diplomacy. Finally, his successful runs in various leadership positions – religious superior, diocesan bishop and Vatican prefect – offer proof of his capacity to govern.
Moreover, Prevost does not play to classic stereotypes of brash American arrogance. Instead, as both the Italian newspaper La Repubblica and the national TV network RAI recently put it, he comes off as il meno americano tra gli americani, "the least American of the Americans."
Fundamentally, a vote for Prevost would be seen in broad strokes as a vote for continuity with much of the substance of the Pope Francis agenda, but not necessarily the style, as he's more pragmatic, cautious and discreet than the late pope – all qualities many of his fellow cardinals might well find desirable.
Moreover, Prevost is seen as having more or less the right age profile. He turns 70 in September, so a Prevost papacy likely would be long enough to guarantee stability, not so long as to conjure images of an Eternal Father instead of a Holy Father.
The case against?
To begin with, Prevost is something of a cypher when it comes to many of the contested issues in Catholic life. In terms of where he stands on matters such as the ordination of women deacons, or the blessing of persons in same-sex unions, or the Latin Mass, he's played his cards awfully close to the vest. For some cardinals, that might make Prevost too much of a journey into the unknown, especially among more conservative voters who want some guarantee of greater clarity.
In addition, Prevost is among several U.S. cardinals against whom complaints have been lodged by the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP) for allegedly mishandling abuse complaints. One concerns the accused priest in Chicago, the other two priests in Chiclayo in Peru. There is a compelling other side to that story: Multiple parties have defended Prevost's conduct in both cases, the canon lawyer who initially represented the Peruvian victims is a disgraced ex-priest with an axe to grind, and while in Chiclayo Prevost was head of a successful diocesan commission for child protection. Still, the mere hint of culpability might be enough to worry some electors.
At a basic level, there may be concern about whether Prevost really has the charisma to play on the global stage, to inspire and to excite. Given that so much of his work over the years has been behind the scenes, he hasn't had much of an opportunity to turn the world on with his smile. On the other hand, it's worth recalling that Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina had a reputation in Buenos Aires for being a distant, gray figure uncomfortable in the public eye, and we all know how that turned out once he stepped into the Shoes of the Fisherman.
The bottom line is that Prevost satisfies a great deal of what cardinals have traditionally looked for, and even his lack of a clear track record on some disputed issues might be more of an asset than a liability. A 2023 tribute from CTU at the time of his elevation to the College of Cardinals more or less sums up his appeal.
"Prevost brings to the College of Cardinals the heart of a missionary and years of ministerial experience, ranging from academic classrooms to poor barrios to the upper echelons of administration," it said. "He embodies the Gospel call to be ready to serve wherever the Spirit leads."
We'll see in a few days if that strikes at least two-thirds of Prevost's fellow cardinal electors as the profile of a pope.
And a nice line in his first address: "Let us keep in our ears the weak voice of Pope Francis that blesses Rome. The Pope who blessed Rome, gave his blessing to the entire world that morning of Easter. Allow me to follow up on that blessing. God loves us. God loves everyone. Evil will not prevail."
Quote from: Legbiter on May 08, 2025, 05:18:09 PMQuote from: Valmy on May 08, 2025, 03:04:17 PMWell damn. I guess this new Pope will work out great.
The Vatican is a Communist state.
Set up a second, pro-Trump pope at Avignon. :hmm:
There no Avignon in America, but Paris Texas might work :D
An American Pope? If I wasn't an atheist already I'd be considering becoming one :lol:
I'm hearing Trump threatened to impose tariffs on all imports from Vatican City unless they elected an American.
Quote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 05:37:12 PMAn American Pope? If I wasn't an atheist already I'd be considering becoming one :lol:
If it helps, he became a naturalised Peruvian citizen in 2015 :P
Edit: And from what I can see Peruvians are very much taking this as one of theirs winning :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2025, 06:07:39 PMQuote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 05:37:12 PMAn American Pope? If I wasn't an atheist already I'd be considering becoming one :lol:
If it helps, he became a naturalised Peruvian citizen in 2015 :P
60 years as an American. 60! America ruins religion :contract: :P
Huh, looking it up he's only been a cardinal less than 2 years. That seems oddly short.
Quote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 06:12:38 PMHuh, looking it up he's only been a cardinal less than 2 years.
Not his fault, he was drafted by the Cubs and only recently traded.
Quote from: Rex Francorum on May 08, 2025, 07:47:22 AMCuriosity question for our anglo friends. Why the Sixtine chapel is named "Sistine" in english? I mean, the pope behind its construction was Sixtus IV (Sixte IV in french).
My guess is because sixteen is a number
Well, he does not have Catturd's support. :(
(https://i.imgur.com/Cllc0qI.png)
Well that film dated rather quickly, even before I had the chance to watch it. :pope:
(https://i.imgur.com/fq8uvHV.jpeg)
They want us to be woke now eh
Quote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 06:10:56 PMQuote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2025, 06:07:39 PMQuote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 05:37:12 PMAn American Pope? If I wasn't an atheist already I'd be considering becoming one :lol:
If it helps, he became a naturalised Peruvian citizen in 2015 :P
60 years as an American. 60! America ruins religion :contract: :P
Peruvians are American, but not United Statesians. :P Except maybe the current pope.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2025, 07:04:17 AM(https://i.imgur.com/fq8uvHV.jpeg)
Stop teasing the Brain, will you?
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2025, 03:04:17 PM[snip]
Well damn. I guess this new Pope will work out great.
The Vatican is a Communist state.
Please don't feed that troll. :sleep:
Oh, the Pope is the Antichrist? Well that's a new one we've never heard before...
Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2025, 07:44:01 AMOh, the Pope is the Antichrist? Well that's a new one we've never heard before...
:D
I think Trump already clinched the title.
Why wouldn't it be Xi?
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2025, 09:39:38 AMWhy wouldn't it be Xi?
Damn Roman numerals. Took me a second to realize you weren't talking about Leo :D
Well, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Technically, the Pope can now be elected President of the US.
Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2025, 07:44:01 AMOh, the Pope is the Antichrist? Well that's a new one we've never heard before...
:lol:
(https://preview.redd.it/80lwswd71us81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=beacb1e0f2fa71b4042d2438cd0810eb2ed2303e)
The unparalleled skill of Northern Irish unionists to win friends and influence people.
Quote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
You thought Josephus was:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1386924681i/27803.jpg)
Quote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
I got to mass :)
I'd back anyone elected Pope - but do like what I've seen of this one so far.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
Wrong Josephus
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
Josephus worked at a Jewish newspaper for years, so not an unreasonable assumption.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
You're not the only one. but no, I was the managing editor for the Canadian Jewish News, so that's a fair assumption.
Quote from: Savonarola on May 09, 2025, 10:33:49 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
You thought Josephus was:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1386924681i/27803.jpg)
Yes, people think that's my biography. It isn't :lmfao:
Quote from: HVC on May 08, 2025, 06:10:56 PM60 years as an American. 60! America ruins religion :contract: :P
I'm following the Peruvian press - "The Pope is Peruvian and he misses ceviche" :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gqh8K8TXcAAM_qU?format=jpg&name=900x900)
What's it the young people say now a days? Copium? :D
Quote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 01:59:20 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
You're not the only one. but no, I was the managing editor for the Canadian Jewish News, so that's a fair assumption.
Well I knew about the newspaper career and your Maltese heritage, but hadn't bothered to make that assumption, so I'd not pigeon-holed you as anything, other than being 'progressive' Josephus. :D
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 09, 2025, 11:04:21 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2025, 10:27:41 AMQuote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Not that it matters, but all this time I thought you were Jewish.
Wrong Josephus
In fairness I did not realize that Grumbler was unique in his longevity.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2025, 07:04:17 AM(https://i.imgur.com/fq8uvHV.jpeg)
Well, at least according to the Prophecy of the Popes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes), Francis was Peter the Roman, so Rome's destruction should be imminent. :ph34r:
Quote from: Solmyr on May 10, 2025, 03:18:21 AMQuote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2025, 07:04:17 AM(https://i.imgur.com/fq8uvHV.jpeg)
Well, at least according to the Prophecy of the Popes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes), Francis was Peter the Roman, so Rome's destruction should be imminent. :ph34r:
I thought Benedict XVI was Petrus Romanus. :hmm:
I miss ceviche and I am not even Peruvian. Shit's awesome.
Quote from: Josephus on May 09, 2025, 09:53:56 AMWell, I, as possibly the only practising Catholic here (?) am proud of my new overlord. :pope:
Obviously not practicing and a none believer but I'm technically a full blown Catholic, like most of the Baby boomers children in Quebec.
Quote from: celedhring on May 10, 2025, 06:58:11 AMI miss ceviche and I am not even Peruvian. Shit's awesome.
Truth.
Probably one of the best dishes I know how to make.
Quote from: celedhring on May 10, 2025, 06:58:11 AMI miss ceviche and I am not even Peruvian. Shit's awesome.
I never had it. But we have a Peruvian intern who misses it a lot.
Quote from: celedhring on May 10, 2025, 06:58:11 AMI miss ceviche and I am not even Peruvian. Shit's awesome.
Fair. It's fantastic.
Also (showing their unseriousness and focus on the signifier) I've seen lots of American trad Catholics are very excited about the Pope wearing the mozzetta (little red cape) and gold pectoral cross (unlike Francis who kept his iron one). They seem to think those fashion choices indicate he's going to be a bit trad and "based".
Meanwhile the Pope spoke to Cardinals today - wanting to renew "our complete commitment" to Vatican II as "masterfully and concretely" set forth by Pope Francis in his encyclical. Then said he chose the name Leo because of Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum establishing Catholic social teaching and noting that he wants to respond to "another industrial revolution and developments in the field of artificial intelligence that pose new challenges for the defence of human dignity, justice and labour". And then he closed off with quoting St Paul VI - the Pope who closed Vatican II and is probably the most siginificant reformer this side of the Catholic Reformation (not only quoting St Paul VI but going for a deep cut document that isn't even translated into English :lol:).
Yep - very, very keen on this Pope so far:
QuoteIn the context of the ongoing digital revolution, we must rediscover, emphasize and cultivate our duty to train others in critical thinking, countering temptations to the contrary, which can also be found in ecclesial circles. There is so little dialogue around us; shouting often replaces it, not infrequently in the form of fake news and irrational arguments proposed by a few loud voices. Deeper reflection and study are essential, as well as a commitment to encounter and listen to the poor, who are a treasure for the Church and for humanity. Their viewpoints, though often disregarded, are vital if we are to see the world through God's eyes. Those born and raised far from the centers of power should not merely be taught the Church's social doctrine; they should also be recognized as carrying it forward and putting it into practice. Individuals committed to the betterment of society, popular movements and the various Catholic workers' groups are an expression of those existential peripheries where hope endures and springs anew. I urge you to let the voice of the poor be heard.