https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-pm-warns-unilever-severe-consequences-ben-jerrys-decision-2021-07-20/
QuoteIsrael PM warns Unilever of 'severe consequences' from Ben & Jerry's decision
JERUSALEM, July 20 (Reuters) - Israel warned consumer goods giant Unilever Plc (ULVR.L) on Tuesday of "severe consequences" from a decision by subsidiary Ben & Jerry's to stop selling ice cream in Israeli-occupied territories, and urged U.S. states to invoke anti-boycott laws.
Monday's announcement followed pro-Palestinian pressure on the Vermont-based company over its business in Israel and Jewish settlements in the West Bank, handled since 1987 through a licensee partner, Ben & Jerry's Israel.
Ben & Jerry's said it would not renew the licence when it expires at the end of next year. It said it would stay in Israel under a different arrangement, without sales in the West Bank, among areas where Palestinians seek statehood.
Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's office said in a statement that he had complained to Unilever Chief Executive Alan Jope about the "glaring anti-Israel measure".
"From Israel's standpoint, this action has severe consequences, legal and otherwise, and it will move aggressively against any boycott measure targeting civilians," Bennett told Jope in a phone conversation, according to the premier's office.
Unilever did not immediately respond.
Most world powers deem Israel's settlements illegal. It disputes this, citing historical and security links to the land, and has moved to penalise anti-settlement measures under law.
Avi Zinger, CEO of Ben & Jerry's Israel, said he was unwilling to refuse to sell the ice cream to Israeli citizens in settlements and was legally prevented from doing so.
"So when they (Ben & Jerry's) realised that there is no way that I will stop it, they decided not to renew my contract," he told Reuters.
Gilad Erdan, Israel's ambassador to Washington, said he had raised the Ben & Jerry's decision in a letter to 35 U.S. governors whose states legislated against boycotting Israel.
"Rapid and determined action must be taken to counter such discriminatory and antisemitic actions," read the letter, tweeted by the envoy, which likened the case to Airbnb's 2018 announcement that it would delist settlement rental properties.
Airbnb reversed that decision in 2019 following legal challenges in the United States, but said it would donate profits from bookings in the settlements to humanitarian causes.
Palestinians welcomed the Ben & Jerry's announcement. They want the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip for a future state. Israel deems all of Jerusalem its capital, a status not recognised internationally. Gaza is controlled by Hamas Islamists who refuse coexistence with Israel.
Orna Barbivai, Israel's economy minister, posted a video of herself throwing a tub of Ben & Jerry's into the trash. Ayman Odeh, an opposition lawmaker from Israel's Arab minority, tweeted an image of him smiling as he dug into his own tub.
I will never forgive B&J's for discontinuing Dublin Mudslide.
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
Ice cream is a vital national security interest in Israel.
Do those state laws about boycotting Israel apply if a company keeps working in Israel, just not the occupied territories?
Quote from: Syt on July 20, 2021, 12:19:27 PM
Do those state laws about boycotting Israel apply if a company keeps working in Israel, just not the occupied territories?
I don't know man. I was not even aware that states were passing laws requiring private companies to do business in certain countries.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
I think you could have communicated as much just by saying "Israel".
It is interesting how extra quick they are to scream anti semitism these days.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
I tend to agree.
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2021, 12:22:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
I tend to agree.
In isolation, absolutely. I can't imagine Ben & Jerry's is selling a whole lot of ice cream in the occupied territories.
But there is an overall context. Israel has been subject for many years to the organized BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanctions) for decades. I understand the thinking that you can't just roll over on the small instances, as they just grow bigger and bigger.
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2021, 12:22:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
I tend to agree.
In isolation, absolutely. I can't imagine Ben & Jerry's is selling a whole lot of ice cream in the occupied territories.
But there is an overall context. Israel has been subject for many years to the organized BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanctions) for decades. I understand the thinking that you can't just roll over on the small instances, as they just grow bigger and bigger.
Boycotting, divesting, and sanctions is slightly different than only selling your ice cream to 95% of the population.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
Boycotting, divesting, and sanctions is slightly different than only selling your ice cream to 95% of the population.
I don't get the "only selling your ice cream to 95% of the population" reference. B&J is going to stop selling their ice cream in the occupied territories, which has a pretty sizeable population.
And B&J refusing to sell their ice cream in the occupied territories is absolutely a form of boycott.
... but it a different action than not enaging with Israel at all.
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
Boycotting, divesting, and sanctions is slightly different than only selling your ice cream to 95% of the population.
I don't get the "only selling your ice cream to 95% of the population" reference. B&J is going to stop selling their ice cream in the occupied territories, which has a pretty sizeable population.
And B&J refusing to sell their ice cream in the occupied territories is absolutely a form of boycott.
Ok fine. I looked it up and 90% of the Israeli population lives in Israel proper with 10% in the occupied territories. Sorry for missing the number by such a huge percentage that you didn't get the reference. :lol:
I mean not every company in the United States does business in every state or territory for any number of reasons. Would it make any sense to have a law requiring every single company that does business in the US do business in every single locality?
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2021, 12:38:24 PM
... but it a different action than not enaging with Israel at all.
Yes. And it is not like Israel is very big.
Quote from: Syt on July 20, 2021, 11:53:10 AM
Gilad Erdan, Israel's ambassador to Washington, said he had raised the Ben & Jerry's decision in a letter to 35 U.S. governors whose states legislated against boycotting Israel.
"Rapid and determined action must be taken to counter such discriminatory and antisemitic actions," read the letter, tweeted by the envoy, which likened the case to Airbnb's 2018 announcement that it would delist settlement rental properties.
Airbnb reversed that decision in 2019 following legal challenges in the United States, but said it would donate profits from bookings in the settlements to humanitarian causes.
How is that kosher?
Private entities should be free to avoid doing business in places on moral grounds.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:41:45 PM
Ok fine. I looked it up and 90% of the Israeli population lives in Israel proper with 10% in the occupied territories. Sorry for missing the number by such a huge percentage that you didn't get the reference. :lol:
I was thinking of the Palestinian population in those territories and that it was nowhere close to being only 5% of the total population of Israel + the territories. -_-
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
Whataboutism. Besides Russia has actual sanctions because of Crimea.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
It's funny how ideologues make up shit and say "it's always funny" when referring to the shit they just made up. The reason "it's always funny" is because you are so fucking predictable. Makes it look like it's not really about honesty at all.
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2021, 12:22:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
I tend to agree.
In isolation, absolutely. I can't imagine Ben & Jerry's is selling a whole lot of ice cream in the occupied territories.
But there is an overall context. Israel has been subject for many years to the organized BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanctions) for decades. I understand the thinking that you can't just roll over on the small instances, as they just grow bigger and bigger.
So in your view should a private company be forced by the state to renew a contract it does not wish to renew?
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:41:45 PM
Ok fine. I looked it up and 90% of the Israeli population lives in Israel proper with 10% in the occupied territories. Sorry for missing the number by such a huge percentage that you didn't get the reference. :lol:
I was thinking of the Palestinian population in those territories and that it was nowhere close to being only 5% of the total population of Israel + the territories. -_-
Ah I see. Good point.
I was not clear if Ben and Jerry would still be selling Ice Cream in areas of non-Israel settlement. Like those Hamas militiamen might need a sweet treat after a tough day.
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
In isolation, absolutely. I can't imagine Ben & Jerry's is selling a whole lot of ice cream in the occupied territories.
But there is an overall context. Israel has been subject for many years to the organized BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanctions) for decades. I understand the thinking that you can't just roll over on the small instances, as they just grow bigger and bigger.
I don't really have an issue with any of that in relation to the West Bank - and I'm not convinced there's been much rolling over on the issue of settlements from Israel in the last decade or so.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 20, 2021, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
In isolation, absolutely. I can't imagine Ben & Jerry's is selling a whole lot of ice cream in the occupied territories.
But there is an overall context. Israel has been subject for many years to the organized BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanctions) for decades. I understand the thinking that you can't just roll over on the small instances, as they just grow bigger and bigger.
I don't really have an issue with any of that in relation to the West Bank - and I'm not convinced there's been much rolling over on the issue of settlements from Israel in the last decade or so.
I don't think there has - but Israel has also been pushing back hard against BDS during that time.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
Yeah, but they have a good reason. Several years ago Netanyahu gave a speech at the UN where he illustrated Israeli policy. After the speech he wasn't looking at where he was going and ran into President Rouhani of Iran who was coming up to give his speech. Both were knocked to the ground and papers flew every which way. When both men realized who they had run into they frowned, quickly gathered their belongings, and stormed out. Unfortunately, Netanyahu picked up the Iranian policy papers by mistake and has used them as governing and political policy ever since.
Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2021, 02:35:47 PM
I don't think there has - but Israel has also been pushing back hard against BDS during that time.
Sure - but in terms of protesting Israeli settlements and policy in the West Bank I don't feel like there's many options left short of boycotting (for products from the West Bank).
I think the soft diplomacy and concern of the Obama years were pretty comprehensively rejected - not least because in the Netanyanhu years Israel was playing at domestic American politics to an outrageous degree.
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
I believe in Europe it's mandatory to label products from settlements "made in Israel", from Palestinian territories "made in Palestine". That ruling caused a lot of irritation in Israel - possibly for that very reason.
I mean it's not like there's much to boycott. Some produce/food but that's about it.
Quote from: grumbler on July 20, 2021, 01:23:19 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
It's funny how ideologues make up shit and say "it's always funny" when referring to the shit they just made up. The reason "it's always funny" is because you are so fucking predictable. Makes it look like it's not really about honesty at all.
funny how that's always the reaction when hypocrisy is revealed.
funny how funny this thread is
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
Sure. I remember that coming up as an issue with Soda Stream - it's an Israeli company that manufactured some items in the West Bank and pointed out that fact. The broader Palestinian community however still supports BDS.
Soda Stream eventually closed it's West Bank facilities in response to BDS pressure.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2021, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
This could just be me but it seems like Israel is over-reacting.
Yeah, but they have a good reason. Several years ago Netanyahu gave a speech at the UN where he illustrated Israeli policy. After the speech he wasn't looking at where he was going and ran into President Rouhani of Iran who was coming up to give his speech. Both were knocked to the ground and papers flew every which way. When both men realized who they had run into they frowned, quickly gathered their belongings, and stormed out. Unfortunately, Netanyahu picked up the Iranian policy papers by mistake and has used them as governing and political policy ever since.
This is a bit behind the times.
Bibi is out of power now.
Though the current guy, Bennett, is also apparently a right wing loon, his actual party is pretty small - he heads a coalition that includes left wing parties and even an Islamic party as members. They share little in common, except the desire to oust Bibi.
Damn, I forgot that. I worked hard on that joke!
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
I have no idea.
But if it is true it kind of illustrates why I oppose to BDS movement in general. The end result would be huge amounts of suffering for the Palestinians and then we would be blamed for it. Sanctions just sort of usually end up that way for us.
But one would think one could sell in Palestinian areas and not in settler ones, but what do I know?
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 20, 2021, 01:23:19 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
It's funny how ideologues make up shit and say "it's always funny" when referring to the shit they just made up. The reason "it's always funny" is because you are so fucking predictable. Makes it look like it's not really about honesty at all.
funny how that's always the reaction when hypocrisy is revealed.
Exactly. That's why I pointed the hypocrisy out.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
I have no idea.
But if it is true it kind of illustrates why I oppose to BDS movement in general. The end result would be huge amounts of suffering for the Palestinians and then we would be blamed for it. Sanctions just sort of usually end up that way for us.
But one would think one could sell in Palestinian areas and not in settler ones, but what do I know?
The US is already being blamed for enabling the illegal settlements.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2021, 05:07:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
I have no idea.
But if it is true it kind of illustrates why I oppose to BDS movement in general. The end result would be huge amounts of suffering for the Palestinians and then we would be blamed for it. Sanctions just sort of usually end up that way for us.
But one would think one could sell in Palestinian areas and not in settler ones, but what do I know?
The US is already being blamed for enabling the illegal settlements.
So go ahead and starve the Palestinians? No thanks.
I would prefer we just cut off military aid until they behave how we would prefer.
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2021, 05:07:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Doesn't boycotting products made in the West Bank end up hurting mostly Palestinian workers?
I have no idea.
But if it is true it kind of illustrates why I oppose to BDS movement in general. The end result would be huge amounts of suffering for the Palestinians and then we would be blamed for it. Sanctions just sort of usually end up that way for us.
But one would think one could sell in Palestinian areas and not in settler ones, but what do I know?
The US is already being blamed for enabling the illegal settlements.
So go ahead and starve the Palestinians? No thanks.
I would prefer we just cut off military aid until they behave how we would prefer.
Well until your government does that - and there is no sign that it ever would - what are the other options?
Besides, if you are very concerned about the plight of Palestinians, propping up the system that is depriving them of essentials is not a great way to go about it.
Also, how does cutting off ice cream to illegal settlements starve Palestinians?
If Unilever doesn't want to do business in the territories that's their business.
Is Israeli wants to retaliate against Unilever, that is Israel's business, subject to any trade or investment treaties to which it may be a party.
But US states should not be imposing sanctions on companies that don't want to do business there. Both because it violates speech rights and because they should not be supporting or condoning Israeli policy in the territories.
There is and should be a distinction between the BDS concept generally and Israeli policy in West Bank.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 20, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
it's always funny how other illegal occupations (Northern Cyprus, Western Saharan, Crimea, etc) never lead to calls for boycotts from these organisations. Makes it look as if it's not really about illegal occupations at all
I don't know of any US state that has laws sanctioning companies who elect not to do business in those locations.
Makes it look like its really about politicians trying to strong arm private companies into following their policy preferences to drum up votes.
On the federal level, the US and I think Europe imposed sanctions prohibiting import/export toRussian occupied Crimea.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2021, 04:58:25 PM
Damn, I forgot that. I worked hard on that joke!
I chuckled. :)