What should they do in the face of this demand?
Quote$500,000 Jefferson Davis chair stolen in Selma will be a toilet unless Confederate group hangs banner, email claims
A Confederate monument valued at $500,000 was stolen in March from a Selma cemetery, officials confirmed today.
This morning, a group that claims to have taken the monument, the Jefferson Davis Memorial Chair, sent emails to AL.com saying they will give the chair to the United Daughters of the Confederacy if that organization agrees to hang a banner outside its Richmond, Va. headquarters.
In those emails, a group calling itself White Lies Matter say they stole the chair from the Old Live Oak Cemetery and are demanding that the UDC hang a large banner at 1 p.m. on Friday -- the anniversary of the Confederacy's surrender in the Civil War -- and leave it there for 24 hours.
The banner bears a quote from Assata Shakur, a Black Liberation Army activist wanted by the FBI for the 1973 murder of a New Jersey state trooper: "The rulers of this country have always considered their property more important than our lives."
White Lies Matter said it had already delivered the banner to the UDC.
"Failure to do so will result in the monument, an ornate stone chair, immediately being turned into a toilet," the email states. "If they do display the banner, not only will we return the chair intact, but we will clean it to boot."
A woman who answered the phone at the Virginia offices of the UDC said she had heard the reports of the theft and ransom demand were "fake news" and there was no immediate response to an email to the organization seeking further comment.
Selma police and District Attorney Michael Jackson confirmed the theft and said they were aware of the ransom demand.
The felony theft occurred sometime between midnight and 3 a.m. on March 19, according to a Selma police report.
District Attorney Michael Jackson said the chair is reportedly worth $500,000.
"This incident is sending Selma back into 'The Twilight Zone,'" he said. "There's never a dull moment in Selma."
There is a $5,000 reward leading to information about the disappearance of the chair, described as being about 3-feet-tall and weighing several hundred pounds, The Montgomery Advertiser reported.
"The Ladies of Selma presented the stone chair in memory of Jefferson Davis in 1893, over 20 years after he'd last visited the city," that report stated.
In 2012, a bronze bust of Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest was stolen from the cemetery.
"Like most Confederate monuments, (the chair) mostly exists to remind those who's freedom had to be purchased in blood, that there still exists a portion of our country that is more than willing to continue to spill blood to avoid paying that debt down," the White Lies Matter email states.
"We took their toy, and we don't feel guilty about it. They never play with it anyway. They just want it there to remind us what they've done, what they are still willing to do. But the south won't rise again. Not as the Confederacy. Because that coalition left out a large portion of its population. All that's left of that nightmare is an obscenely heavy chair that's a throne for a ghost whose greatest accomplishment was treason."
(https://www.al.com/resizer/U1Tf95seIHXkKuRYoXDeBGtxNks=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/DSOQWODGSVD35G3K55M6IEBHJI.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/i7O2ZQKmJ3V84e0waTnZRWPhr-4=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/Q65KNF534ZFFJD2RPPCC5EBHKM.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/BFnI2oW2apxmcR9AEUi-OCw0WAU=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/VP4XCFMJE5FN3AN3KYGCHRQEBE.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/V-Wn0wxa-yhUeKGYNRGx_XtUmQs=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/HBNBDB4DLZA3FGP4TVTSUMV4DA.jpg)
Pictures provided by White Lies Matter appear to show the theft of the chair.
Source: https://www.al.com/news/2021/04/500000-jefferson-davis-chair-stolen-in-selma-will-be-a-toilet-unless-confederate-group-meets-demands-email-claims.html
Is it going to be hooked up to the plumbing, or will the shit just drop to the floor below and ferment there?
Mass suicide.
Build a $1,000,000 toilet and let them keep the $500,000 one.
Classy font and background of the ransom demand. Very appropriate.
Hang the banner, and when the chair is returned destroy it. Then disband.
Yes. I'm down with everything in this.
For being a cherished part of the South's heritage that chair surely looks in need of some cleaning. Being stolen might be the best thing to happen to it, in the end.
Hang the banner. Get back the stupid chair. Put it in a museum so people can look at old Confederate monuments someplace.
I mean presuming they are about heritage and not hate :P
I do like the pro-American anti-Traitor position of a group called "white lies matter"
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Oh yes. This organization has been the standard bearer for neo-Confederate propaganda for over 100 years.
Are you under some kind of impression we have healthily dealt with that period of our history at this point? Less than 1% of Confederate monuments has come down despite the gnashing of teeth for all the statue cancelations.
Hell we have probably put up new ones just to own the libs.
Quote from: Jacob on April 05, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
What should they do in the face of this demand?
They do not know who they are or where they are, but they should find them and they should kill them.
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
I do like the pro-American anti-Traitor position of a group called "white lies matter"
isn't it contradictory? Being pro-American means being pro-traitor, since your founding fathers were all traitors to their King and country ;)
Quote from: viper37 on April 06, 2021, 01:32:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
I do like the pro-American anti-Traitor position of a group called "white lies matter"
isn't it contradictory? Being pro-American means being pro-traitor, since your founding fathers were all traitors to their King and country ;)
Well...you got me there. :lol:
I'm really confused about this chair.
-The picture shows it with a hole already. So isn't it already broken?
-This chair seems super dumb. It was a commemorative chair that was given to davis at some point? How is it possibly worth $500k? It seems in a rather unique space of being a shit monument, a shit historical artifact, and a shit personal effect of Davis if you want to venerate Davis for some reason (since it seems unlikely he used it). It even seems like a shit chair.
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Oh yes. This organization has been the standard bearer for neo-Confederate propaganda for over 100 years.
Are you under some kind of impression we have healthily dealt with that period of our history at this point? Less than 1% of Confederate monuments has come down despite the gnashing of teeth for all the statue cancelations.
No, I was not under that impression. But I was also not aware the tip of the hat to the confederacy was so blatant.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 06, 2021, 01:53:18 PM
I'm really confused about this chair.
-The picture shows it with a hole already. So isn't it already broken?
-This chair seems super dumb. It was a commemorative chair that was given to davis at some point? How is it possibly worth $500k? It seems in a rather unique space of being a shit monument, a shit historical artifact, and a shit personal effect of Davis if you want to venerate Davis for some reason (since it seems unlikely he used it). It even seems like a shit chair.
Sounds like bullshit to me, as well. What was a half-million-dollar chair doing sitting in a cemetery anyway?
The theft and destruction of the chair is a tragedy, and the Daughters will weep for it (in the press). Then, way down the road (though preferably before the end of the fiscal year) they'll file the insurance claim.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Oh yes. This organization has been the standard bearer for neo-Confederate propaganda for over 100 years.
Are you under some kind of impression we have healthily dealt with that period of our history at this point? Less than 1% of Confederate monuments has come down despite the gnashing of teeth for all the statue cancelations.
No, I was not under that impression. But I was also not aware the tip of the hat to the confederacy was so blatant.
Well it was created by literal daughters of confederate veterans. They were more than just tipping their hats but staking a political movement for honoring the Confederacy. They are responsible for most of the big confederate monuments across the South.
They were all gold diggers whoring after pension money.
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Oh yes. This organization has been the standard bearer for neo-Confederate propaganda for over 100 years.
Are you under some kind of impression we have healthily dealt with that period of our history at this point? Less than 1% of Confederate monuments has come down despite the gnashing of teeth for all the statue cancelations.
No, I was not under that impression. But I was also not aware the tip of the hat to the confederacy was so blatant.
Well it was created by literal daughters of confederate veterans. They were more than just tipping their hats but staking a political movement for honoring the Confederacy. They are responsible for most of the big confederate monuments across the South.
I would have thought that we would be talking about the daughters of the daughters of the daughters by this point. I am not surprised it was created. I was surprised it still exists.
Foundations like that with some $$$ usually don't disappear.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 06, 2021, 04:12:15 PM
Foundations like that with some $$$ usually don't disappear.
If one only considers the money, likely never.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
I would have thought that we would be talking about the daughters of the daughters of the daughters by this point. I am not surprised it was created. I was surprised it still exists.
Again I am surprised you are surprised. It is more credit than my country deserves :P
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 04:38:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
I would have thought that we would be talking about the daughters of the daughters of the daughters by this point. I am not surprised it was created. I was surprised it still exists.
Again I am surprised you are surprised. It is more credit than my country deserves :P
I just don't know much about the South. When I think about the US, my experience is mainly West Coast. I love the West Coast of the US :wub:
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 06, 2021, 01:32:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
I do like the pro-American anti-Traitor position of a group called "white lies matter"
isn't it contradictory? Being pro-American means being pro-traitor, since your founding fathers were all traitors to their King and country ;)
Well...you got me there. :lol:
The Treaty of Paris absolved the Americans of "past misunderstandings". Don't lose sleep.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 06, 2021, 01:53:18 PM
-The picture shows it with a hole already. So isn't it already broken?
Photoshop. You ever heard of it? :P
I guess they drew a hole in the chair's picture.
Quote
-This chair seems super dumb.
Duh. Like everything related to the Confederacy. They weren't the most thawed pogos in the box to begin with. Generations of inbreeding hasn't made them better.
Quote
It was a commemorative chair that was given to davis at some point? How is it possibly worth $500k?
Because some idiot is willing to pay 500k$ for it?It's like these shitty paintings by a monkey or a dog, they're worth something because some idiot is willing to pay something.
Quote
It seems in a rather unique space of being a shit monument, a shit historical artifact, and a shit personal effect of Davis if you want to venerate Davis for some reason (since it seems unlikely he used it). It even seems like a shit chair.
I guess Davis had a good PR firm. I understand how they could celebrate their history, despite the whole slavery thing (not that it was unique to the seceding States anyway). I understand they can resist the label of "traitorous" for their military officiers and appreciate some of their military accomplishments, but frankly, Davis was an inept politician and his ineptitude likely caused the South to be defeated.
Had the US Continental Congress acted like that in the Revolution, you'd be a British Dominion today. :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 04:48:10 PM
I love the West Coast of the US :wub:
It's like B.C., but warmer and with more space between the water and the mountains? :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 06, 2021, 03:32:29 PM
They were all gold diggers whoring after pension money.
I like your explanation! :D
The South was not defeated because of Jefferson Davis's ineptitude (though he made a lot of mistakes). It was defeated because Abe Lincoln held the North together long enough for its irresistible military potential to be realized. The Confederates lost the war when they fired on Fort Sumpter.
Let's hope the modern A. Blinken can do the same.
The weird thing about the US civil war is that the North didn't really try that hard. They never went into the full war production and while they did impose a draft very few soldiers were drafted. I agree with Grumbler, there was no way in Hell that the South could have won. To even think about winning they would have needed all three border states to voluntarily join the South, and even then it's not likely.
The Royalist never stood a chance against the resources commanded by parliament and eventual military might of the New Model Army. :bowler:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2021, 08:08:44 PM
The weird thing about the US civil war is that the North didn't really try that hard. They never went into the full war production and while they did impose a draft very few soldiers were drafted. I agree with Grumbler, there was no way in Hell that the South could have won. To even think about winning they would have needed all three border states to voluntarily join the South, and even then it's not likely.
They needed to win big victories early on in the border states...they did not.
Quote from: mongers on April 06, 2021, 08:14:08 PM
The Royalist never stood a chance against the resources commanded by parliament and eventual military might of the New Model Army. :bowler:
They needed to take London early on...they did not.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 06, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
There is still an organization calling itself the United Daughters of the Confederacy?
Oh yes. This organization has been the standard bearer for neo-Confederate propaganda for over 100 years.
Are you under some kind of impression we have healthily dealt with that period of our history at this point? Less than 1% of Confederate monuments has come down despite the gnashing of teeth for all the statue cancelations.
No, I was not under that impression. But I was also not aware the tip of the hat to the confederacy was so blatant.
Well it was created by literal daughters of confederate veterans. They were more than just tipping their hats but staking a political movement for honoring the Confederacy. They are responsible for most of the big confederate monuments across the South.
I would have thought that we would be talking about the daughters of the daughters of the daughters by this point. I am not surprised it was created. I was surprised it still exists.
AFAIK it's a hereditary organization, so its membership can increase exponentially over time, in theory. And having given themselves an objective with no end in sight such as keeping alive the memory of the truly bullshit Lost Cause theory they'll keep being a nuisance, as their initial success has given their cause a dignity it doesn't deserve.
Truly the shortcomings of Reconstruction must be one of the US' greatest historical failures.
Quote from: The Larch on April 07, 2021, 04:55:47 AM
Truly the shortcomings of Reconstruction must be one of the US' greatest historical failures.
I think reconstruction only failed when viewed from a modern lens with a modern view of the war.
It is always hard to establish the goals and motivations of a democracy, but there were two overwhelming ones at the end of the war / start of reconstruction:
1) to ensure the continued preservation of the union,
2) to ensure the final and total eradication of slavery.
Both of these were achieved.
There were people in the North that wanted to achieve something more and elevate former slaves to a more equal status in society, but equality was not the aim of the north and to make it such would have upended the entire war effort. The 15th amendment giving black people the right to vote didn't get through congress until 1869 (as much because republican struggles in the elections of 1868 convinced them they needed more voters) and wasn't ratified until 1870. States like New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, and California rejected the amendment (before final ratification).
Also guys, should we keep this on topic about the chair? Do we really need another ACW hijack?
Quote from: alfred russel on April 07, 2021, 07:13:32 AM
Also guys, should we keep this on topic about the chair? Do we really need another ACW hijack?
Denikin needed to coordinate his offensive with Kolchak...he did not.
Wait no that's a RCW hijack.
Well, while we are hijacking the a thread for the US civil war I discovered something about my own ancestors that fought in the war. It's actually an interesting story. No, wait, it's the opposite of that. My grandmother remembered that her grandfather (my great, great grandfather), wore his old Union uniform everywhere he went (this would have been in the late 1920's or 1930's.). That's not that surprising, insanity runs in my family. What I learned though was he only moved to Missouri in 1867, he must have fought in an Ohio unit. I don't know why he moved to Rat's Ass, Missouri. Again he was probably crazy so that might be it.
Quote from: grumbler on April 06, 2021, 07:53:53 PM
The South was not defeated because of Jefferson Davis's ineptitude (though he made a lot of mistakes). It was defeated because Abe Lincoln held the North together long enough for its irresistible military potential to be realized. The Confederates lost the war when they fired on Fort Sumpter.
Let's hope the modern A. Blinken can do the same.
The South never managed to present a united front the way the North did. They never managed to leveraged the manpower from all States, develop a coherent strategy, assign high offices to people based on their competence and not their political affiliations or simply have their railways used to efficiently deliver supplies where they were needed.
The whole organization of the Confederacy was a big mess and it's a miracle it held for so long. Tax collection was deficient, use of slave labor varied from State to State, for some reason Black folks didn't rush to defend the Confederacy once they were given an alternative with the North (who would have thought! ;) ) and, well, all in all, each State was there for its own, not especially caring about the global war effort but pulling for its own side.
The more I think about it, the more I believe Longstreet's (and others) strategy of "stalling" in the East and fighting in the West would have given them a decent chance at tiring the North enough so they would have eventually agreed to a peace treaty.
That's a lot of "ifs", a lot of conditional history and would have required a different leadership with different generals, so that's like, highly improbable it could have happened, but if you compare Lincoln's conduct of the war with Davis' conduct of the war, you see a clear difference on what a good leader can do. Well, you kinda seen first hand what a bad leader can do too, I think, for the last 4 years :P
The CSA sending more resources west would be nice, more fodder for Grant and his homies and hopefully a quicker end to the war. Perhaps Lee would lose a battle or two more and that might also hasten things. Stalling in the east was what they were barely able to do with the historical resources allocated.
Otherwise I believe it was a matter of logistics. The US is huge and no matter how they do it would take time to build the logistic capability to support huge armies far into the south. And huge armies were needed to pacify the south.
Quote from: viper37 on April 07, 2021, 08:48:51 AM
The South never managed to present a united front the way the North did. They never managed to leveraged the manpower from all States, develop a coherent strategy, ... or simply have their railways used to efficiently deliver supplies where they were needed.
I don't think this part is fair (I did use a "..." to omit out a part that I thought was :) ).
The population of the north was about 22 million and the south about 9. of course the white population in the south was only about 5, and slaves weren't used in armies. If you look at relative army sizes, they mobilized more effectively than the north.
The strategy the south had was coherent, though I know some disagree on that. They had a defensive strategy, with a few short term offensives, and tried to defend all of the states in its territory--whether that was the right strategy is obviously debatable but I don't think there was a political alternative.
The railway system totally broke down by the end of the war, and much has been written about confederate railroad management (obviously not all positive) but at the end of the day they lacked the industrial capacity to maintain a rail system, went through economic collapse during the war, and were effectively embargoed by war's end. Rail maintenance deteriorated by war's end so that trains were running at a snail's pace, and troops were getting out to walk along side the trains on uphill sections so the trains could make it.
The phrase "shit just got real" is over-used I think. Are there really large groups of people denying the reality of shit these days? Is there some sort of gnostic revival movement focused on excrement that I've missed?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 07, 2021, 10:18:07 AM
The phrase "shit just got real" is over-used I think. Are there really large groups of people denying the reality of shit these days? Is there some sort of gnostic revival movement focused on excrement that I've missed?
A lot of shit these days is complex.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 07, 2021, 10:18:07 AM
The phrase "shit just got real" is over-used I think. Are there really large groups of people denying the reality of shit these days? Is there some sort of gnostic revival movement focused on excrement that I've missed?
The GOP?
Quote from: Jacob on April 07, 2021, 10:21:16 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 07, 2021, 10:18:07 AM
The phrase "shit just got real" is over-used I think. Are there really large groups of people denying the reality of shit these days? Is there some sort of gnostic revival movement focused on excrement that I've missed?
The GOP?
Fake shit! :mad:
The GOP is clearly aware of the reality of shit, as they keep electing pieces of it to Congress.
Quote from: Jacob on April 05, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
What should they do in the face of this demand?
Quote$500,000 Jefferson Davis chair stolen in Selma will be a toilet unless Confederate group hangs banner, email claims
A Confederate monument valued at $500,000 was stolen in March from a Selma cemetery, officials confirmed today.
This morning, a group that claims to have taken the monument, the Jefferson Davis Memorial Chair, sent emails to AL.com saying they will give the chair to the United Daughters of the Confederacy if that organization agrees to hang a banner outside its Richmond, Va. headquarters.
In those emails, a group calling itself White Lies Matter say they stole the chair from the Old Live Oak Cemetery and are demanding that the UDC hang a large banner at 1 p.m. on Friday -- the anniversary of the Confederacy's surrender in the Civil War -- and leave it there for 24 hours.
The banner bears a quote from Assata Shakur, a Black Liberation Army activist wanted by the FBI for the 1973 murder of a New Jersey state trooper: "The rulers of this country have always considered their property more important than our lives."
White Lies Matter said it had already delivered the banner to the UDC.
"Failure to do so will result in the monument, an ornate stone chair, immediately being turned into a toilet," the email states. "If they do display the banner, not only will we return the chair intact, but we will clean it to boot."
A woman who answered the phone at the Virginia offices of the UDC said she had heard the reports of the theft and ransom demand were "fake news" and there was no immediate response to an email to the organization seeking further comment.
Selma police and District Attorney Michael Jackson confirmed the theft and said they were aware of the ransom demand.
The felony theft occurred sometime between midnight and 3 a.m. on March 19, according to a Selma police report.
District Attorney Michael Jackson said the chair is reportedly worth $500,000.
"This incident is sending Selma back into 'The Twilight Zone,'" he said. "There's never a dull moment in Selma."
There is a $5,000 reward leading to information about the disappearance of the chair, described as being about 3-feet-tall and weighing several hundred pounds, The Montgomery Advertiser reported.
"The Ladies of Selma presented the stone chair in memory of Jefferson Davis in 1893, over 20 years after he'd last visited the city," that report stated.
In 2012, a bronze bust of Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest was stolen from the cemetery.
"Like most Confederate monuments, (the chair) mostly exists to remind those who's freedom had to be purchased in blood, that there still exists a portion of our country that is more than willing to continue to spill blood to avoid paying that debt down," the White Lies Matter email states.
"We took their toy, and we don't feel guilty about it. They never play with it anyway. They just want it there to remind us what they've done, what they are still willing to do. But the south won't rise again. Not as the Confederacy. Because that coalition left out a large portion of its population. All that's left of that nightmare is an obscenely heavy chair that's a throne for a ghost whose greatest accomplishment was treason."
(https://www.al.com/resizer/U1Tf95seIHXkKuRYoXDeBGtxNks=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/DSOQWODGSVD35G3K55M6IEBHJI.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/i7O2ZQKmJ3V84e0waTnZRWPhr-4=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/Q65KNF534ZFFJD2RPPCC5EBHKM.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/BFnI2oW2apxmcR9AEUi-OCw0WAU=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/VP4XCFMJE5FN3AN3KYGCHRQEBE.jpg)
(https://www.al.com/resizer/V-Wn0wxa-yhUeKGYNRGx_XtUmQs=/700x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/HBNBDB4DLZA3FGP4TVTSUMV4DA.jpg)
Pictures provided by White Lies Matter appear to show the theft of the chair.
Source: https://www.al.com/news/2021/04/500000-jefferson-davis-chair-stolen-in-selma-will-be-a-toilet-unless-confederate-group-meets-demands-email-claims.html
did they ever get their chair back?
Looks like the police found the chair and arrested the alleged chairnappers.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/10/us/jefferson-davis-chair-memorial-theft-trnd/index.html
Quote from: Valmy on April 06, 2021, 11:45:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2021, 08:08:44 PM
The weird thing about the US civil war is that the North didn't really try that hard. They never went into the full war production and while they did impose a draft very few soldiers were drafted. I agree with Grumbler, there was no way in Hell that the South could have won. To even think about winning they would have needed all three border states to voluntarily join the South, and even then it's not likely.
They needed to win big victories early on in the border states...they did not.
The South lost because Kentucky stayed (mostly) loyal. :)
Missouri and Maryland as well...mostly.
The Confederates come at night... mostly.
Game over, man!
Quote from: grumbler on April 30, 2021, 05:44:50 PM
The Confederates come at night... mostly.
Traitorous thugs act the part.