Slightly prompted by talk in the China thread but also been reading a fair bit about the end of history moment - and what's striking is how sudden the end of the USSR is and how unexpected it was for most people including participants in East and West.
So I was wondering for the older Languishites who remember it, when did you realise it was all over and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was collapsing irreversibly? And before then did you even realy think it was likely that it would end?
7.15 am, Thursday, 7th September, 1989.
edit:
More seriously, I think it's best to look at them as two separate but linked events.
Once it was clear Gorbachev wasn't going to back Eastern Bloc countries in putting down their civilian uprisings, then the writing was on the wall for those client regimes. So late summer for me.
I don't think the collapse of the USSR or at least it not transforming into some form of working federation was inevitable, certainly the nationalist tensions in places like Georgia, Armenia/Azerbaijan indicated a likely route to disintegration, but a different Yeltsin-Gorbachev dynamic, for instance might has seen the USSR develop into a federation.
When the Berlin Wall fell. Sure, there had been the exodus of East Germans via Czechoslovakia and Hungary, but I was 13 at the time not paying full attention to politics, and only when the Wall opened did it sink in.
And not until it was dissolved did I expect the USSR to collapse.
I was still a child without comprehension of the politics in 1989. But I lived in a city that had a direct border to the GDR. When the Wall fell, the East Germans in their Trabants came over and visited. I can vividly remember everybody being in high spirits about it. We visited the next village across the border as well and I remember how drab and grey everything looked.
When Czechoslovakia announced it would open its border to East Germans transiting to the West.
I remember learning belatedly of the '91 putsch since I was on holidays and not paying much attention to TV.
OTOH, since the study of the USSR was part of the geography curriculum, teachers made clear that what we learned would probably become irrelevant very quickly: USSR, under serious reservations.
1980 Winter Olympics. If they couldn't win against the US in hockey they had no chance at anything.
I was in 4th grade I think. The teacher had set up a radio so she could hear the news. I had no clue what was going on.
I realized it when Ukraine became an independent nation.
Don't remember exactly when in 1989 I realized that the Eastern Bloc was done. At the very latest when the wall came down of course. Now the Soviet Union was a different matter, it wasn't as obvious that the USSR was necessarily done (even if it was considered a very likely development). As late as 1991 Gorbachev was killing civilians in the Baltic states to keep the Soviet Union afloat (while the world's eyes were on Kuwait), and then there was the (fairly lame) coup attempt. After the coup failed the Soviet Union could finally be written off.
Edit: earlier during the 80s it wasn't considered likely to happen anytime soon as I remember it.
The 1991 coup. I was kinda young when the Wall fell to really grasp what it meant, besides the fact I would no longer mix up both Germanies in geography exams (yay!).
It was the coup for me as well. The massive outpouring of popular support for Yeltsin and the pathetic performance by Gorbachev and the hardliners sort of woke me up to the fact that the citizens of the USSR had never been fooled by the Soviet propaganda, they just hadn't had an opportunity to make their disgust with the Soviet regime known before that.
The fall of the Berlin Wall made it clear that eastern Europe had moved out of the Soviet sphere, but I still didn't believe that the USSR would itself fall apart.
basically when the coup on Gorbatsjev happened and with Yeltsin standing on that tank, ending with the humilitiation of Gorbatsjev later that year.
But it's a very vague something as I wasn't even in highschool then. And a weird period altogether what with the (2nd :p) Gulf War earlier that year.
Memories of the wall coming down are even vaguer, but Tsjernobyl going up with a bang, Challenger exploding, Halley passing (all 86) or the Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing just out of the port of Zeebrugge (87) I remember well.
the stuff one remembers seeing on tv...
I consider the Berlin Wall coming down the biggest event in my lifetime. It was shocking when it happened and it changed everything. However, it only dawned on me the whole damn thing was going to come down when Lithuania was able to break free a few months later, that was something else. I mean sure the satellites are starting to break away but suddenly a part of the USSR is going? It seemed clear the whole USSR was done.
But the facts remain: before Bush wall, with Bush no wall! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgbQkoPsCIE
I was 12 when all that happened. The Cold War seemed like something that would just go on forever. I am very bitter that the US blew such a great chance to declare victory and go home. Now here we are 32 years later still getting involved in what happens in Syria.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 03, 2021, 11:12:22 AM
So I was wondering for the older Languishites who remember it, when did you realise it was all over and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was collapsing irreversibly?
When the Berlin wall fell and the USSR did nothing, I knew it was over.
Not before. International news arrived from local newspaper and regular channel information, I did not have access to english newspapers or magazines like today, and I wasn't even out of high school yet, so my focus was elsewhere at the time.
QuoteAnd before then did you even realy think it was likely that it would end?
I knew it was a possibility. I knew the USSR had failed miserably in Afghanistan and I knew of Gorbatchev's perestroïka, but to say I knew with a certainty it would soon end, no, I did not.
Too young. But this was a very interesting thread. Great idea.
I was a teen at the time, living in Leningrad. I remember that ideological indoctrination at our school steadily fell off during the late 1980s, as communist paraphernalia were increasingly ignored, teachers started speaking more bravely and openly, etc. Overall, the rise of Yeltsin felt like it was bringing something new, and everything culminated with the 1991 coup which made him the hero of Russia. At that point, the Soviet Union became just an abstract afterthought.
The 1991 coup. There was no internet then. One day I sorta overheard my mother's radio that something was happening in the USSR. A few hours later I was in a car, and was as usual forced to listen to the radio. I paid attention, and someone said something like "Gorbachev is in charge of the USSR...err...supposedly. Not sure who is in charge now."
I had always assumed that throughout my entire life, WWIII would loom over my head and the Soviet tanks would always be a few hours from rushing over the border. That was the moment when I realised that the world would change.
The Berlin Wall for sure; and seeing all the East Berliners/Germans streaming to the west in their Trabants and not being shot. I remember watching a lot of that live on TV and thinking "Holy shit, everything is changing."
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 03, 2021, 07:55:33 PM
Too young. But this was a very interesting thread. Great idea.
he did say "older Languishites". He meant specifically to exclude kids like you!
:P
I had no grand foresight in this area. I remember watching all the news of 1989, starting with the Chinese Tianamen protests, then leading into eastern Europe and the fall of the Berlin Wall. But even then I could scarcely believe the USSR would fall 2 years later.
Or that even after the USSR fell, I then believe that the PRC would probably fall / reform soon, which is yet another prediction that has failed to come true.
I kept the newspaper the day the wall fell. I still have it.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 03, 2021, 11:12:22 AM
Slightly prompted by talk in the China thread but also been reading a fair bit about the end of history moment - and what's striking is how sudden the end of the USSR is and how unexpected it was for most people including participants in East and West.
So I was wondering for the older Languishites who remember it, when did you realise it was all over and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was collapsing irreversibly? And before then did you even realy think it was likely that it would end?
I was stationed in West Germany at the time.
It's never over with the Russians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=bul69OK0P5k
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 04, 2021, 01:37:54 PM
I kept the newspaper the day the wall fell. I still have it.
I have a Toronto Star front page with the headline "Gorbachev Ousted"
Quote from: 11B4V on April 04, 2021, 01:48:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 03, 2021, 11:12:22 AM
Slightly prompted by talk in the China thread but also been reading a fair bit about the end of history moment - and what's striking is how sudden the end of the USSR is and how unexpected it was for most people including participants in East and West.
So I was wondering for the older Languishites who remember it, when did you realise it was all over and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was collapsing irreversibly? And before then did you even realy think it was likely that it would end?
I was stationed in West Germany at the time.
It's never over with the Russians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=bul69OK0P5k
Says the man who plays SSI's 'Fulda Gap 83'* once a month.
* I made up the name, don't know if it's real.
I actually remember the Russian coup.
I was sleeping over at my friend's place and we had a plan to stay up late and watch eurotrash (purely from a boobies tee hee perspective) on the TV his parents had wisely put in his room.
All night reporting of this Russia thing sort of ruined that.
It was an odd period of history just before. I've got a kids atlas from the time which calls that part of the world the CIS and presents it as a viable thing....
I thought it was still around just with a different name? Man, am I out of touch...
One vivid memory I have is watching some new report with Romanians waving their flags with holes in the middle. I was interested in flags at that time, and that super complicated crap in the middle of the Romanian flag always annoyed me, so I was happy to see people cutting it out. I liked simple tricolor flags. It wasn't until much later than I understood the significance of the hole in the flag.
Yeah, I remember a discussion with a friend about the Romanian flag; we agreed that they should keep the hole in the middle as a commemoration.
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2021, 08:41:57 PM
One vivid memory I have is watching some new report with Romanians waving their flags with holes in the middle. I was interested in flags at that time, and that super complicated crap in the middle of the Romanian flag always annoyed me, so I was happy to see people cutting it out. I liked simple tricolor flags. It wasn't until much later than I understood the significance of the hole in the flag.
When you came to America and saw a donut, did you go "whoa!"?
Quote from: PDH on April 05, 2021, 04:55:24 PM
I thought it was still around just with a different name? Man, am I out of touch...
It still exists and even does some stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States
It exists. As does the union of Belarus and Russia. Its not quite what it says on the tin though. Certainly not the successor of the ussr but democratic it was presented as.
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2021, 08:41:57 PM
One vivid memory I have is watching some new report with Romanians waving their flags with holes in the middle. I was interested in flags at that time, and that super complicated crap in the middle of the Romanian flag always annoyed me, so I was happy to see people cutting it out. I liked simple tricolor flags. It wasn't until much later than I understood the significance of the hole in the flag.
I loved flags (and capital cities) as a kid - I think it's quite a common thing, though I could be wrong.
Interesting responses - thanks. I'm a little too young. I'm a 90s kid so my first international/political memory is Kosovo. But it's just strange because we are still in a world I very much recognise from my childhood - it's still a recognisably 90s style world. Though I wonder if the pieces are in flux at the minute and will, perhaps surprisingly quickly, settle into a new norm. It's just really striking that the previous post-war world which also seemed permanent changed so utterly and so quickly.
Everything here is an example of that - how late everyone realises and how decisive the changes already were by that point.
When the Wall came down. When Ceausescu was shot the next Christmas, that was another falling brick. When the Russian countercoup failed in 91, and Yeltsin stood on a tank, risking snipers, it was over.
It was like one of those weird dreams you keep waking up from. There were layers of realization.
Quote from: saskganesh on April 06, 2021, 06:14:07 PM
When the Wall came down. When Ceausescu was shot the next Christmas, that was another falling brick. When the Russian countercoup failed in 91, and Yeltsin stood on a tank, risking snipers, it was over.
Yeah, those were the three events that really registered with me as well. I don't know if I'd say "I knew the USSR/ Eastern Bloc was over" at the time, but those were momentous events that made it clear that everything had changed.
August 1989, taking part in a party in the main square of Budapest - all ages were there. The amazing energy and hope in crowd was something that is hard to describe. But I knew there was no going back.
A relatively early sign was the use of backdoor routes by DDR citizens to move to the federal republic. They would get permission to visit Czechoslovakia or Poland and from there get to Hungary which had opened up its border with Austria (19th August 1989 apparently). I kept waiting for the inevitable crackdown but it never came.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 06, 2021, 04:35:17 AM
I'm a 90s kid so my first international/political memory is Kosovo.
When I was a kid, I used to ignore the news. Until one day, my parents told me that Hong Kong would be handed over to Mainland China. That's my first political memory.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 07, 2021, 01:46:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 06, 2021, 04:35:17 AM
I'm a 90s kid so my first international/political memory is Kosovo.
When I was a kid, I used to ignore the news. Until one day, my parents told me that Hong Kong would be handed over to Mainland China. That's my first political memory.
"-One day all this will be theirs." :)
Quote from: Monoriu on April 07, 2021, 01:46:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 06, 2021, 04:35:17 AM
I'm a 90s kid so my first international/political memory is Kosovo.
When I was a kid, I used to ignore the news. Until one day, my parents told me that Hong Kong would be handed over to Mainland China. That's my first political memory.
I was going to say that my earliest was the Six day war, but I was living in Singapore in 1965 when they gained their independence from Malaysia. There was an excellent parade shortly after :cool:
I was too young to really understand what was happening, but the Berlin Wall and Ceaucescu stand out as memories.
And I was also sad to see the SU go :blush:
They seemed like the underdog, and all the imagery and secrecy had an effect on an impressionable kid.
I don't really remember the Berlin Wall falling down, for some reason or the other it didn't really register in my 10 y.o. mind at the time. I do remember the 91 coup, though, and how it seemed to be a pretty big deal. It took place while we were visiting my maternal grandparents in the countryside, and all the adults in the house were glued to the tv those days.