I don't think this is being discussed anywhere. Valmy, as our Texan representative and working in power supply, how are you doing?
QuoteMillions of Texans struggle for drinking water following deadly winter storm
Record low temperatures damaged infrastructure and froze pipes, disrupting services and contaminating supplies for 12 million
Millions of Texans are facing water shortages after the deadly winter storm ravaging the state caused pipes to burst and treatment plants to back up, disrupting services and contaminating supplies.
Texas officials ordered 7 million people – a quarter of the population of the nation's second-largest state – to boil tap water before drinking it following days of record low temperatures that damaged infrastructure and froze pipes.
The disruption to water supplies comes after winter storms caused widespread blackouts as they wreaked havoc on the state's power grid and utilities, leaving millions without power for days.
And while the Texas governor Greg Abbott said on Thursday afternoon that all power generating plants in the state were back online, hundreds of thousands of homes still remain without energy because of downed lines and other issues after a ferocious winter storm and cold snap, and more than 13 million Texans are still seeing interruptions in their water services.
Hospitals in Austin and Houston have been among those struggling with disruption to water supplies.
"We are working with our supply chain to provide water for our patients, staff and hospital operations. We began supplementing our onsite water inventory last week, and supplies are continuing to arrive," said David Huffstutler, CEO of St David's HealthCare in Austin, in a statement.
"We continue to work with the City of Austin in an effort to resolve the water outage, but they have been unsuccessful in resolving the water system issue affecting service and water pressure to our hospital."
Austin Water said its water treatment plants were stable on Wednesday, but it was still facing "significant challenges" in restoring water to customers.
Angelica Baton, an ICU nurse in the Texas Medical Center in Houston, said: "The past couple of days have been pretty crazy ... We had a flood. Pipes burst onto a patient. We had to move that patient. Luckily, everyone was communicative."
"I'm sure everyone is going through their own sort of hell, but we are going through it," she added, saying her main concern was for patients needing dialysis. "When you don't have water, how are you supposed to do that?"
An employee at the Woman's Hospital of Texas in Houston said all hospital staff had received a text message on Wednesday morning saying: "Everyone – we are on emergency water conservation effective immediately. The entire city doesn't have water. Please do not flush toilets or proceed with any non-emergency procedures."
The employee, who wanted to remain anonymous, said he felt "added stress" upon receiving the text. "We already felt overwhelmed working in the middle of an ice storm being away from family, plus a pandemic ... and now we had to make sure we were conserving water just in case we had a worst case scenario."
The Guardian contacted Houston's Texas Medical Center and the Woman's Hospital of Texas in Houston for comment.
Water pressure has fallen across the state because lines have frozen, and many residents are leaving faucets dripping in hopes of preventing pipes from freezing, said Toby Baker, executive director of the Texas commission on environmental quality. Abbott urged residents to shut off water to their homes, if possible, to prevent more busted pipes and preserve pressure in municipal systems.
At 19 weeks pregnant, Lisa Gerow had been helping her husband gather containers of snow since they lost water early on Tuesday evening at their San Antonio home.
At first, it was slow going, with only enough snow for a single toilet flush. But by Thursday, they had been able to fill about a quarter of a bathtub with melted water.
"We're like pioneer people, going outside to collect snow, you know, in the freezing cold at night," Gerow said. But she quickly added: "In comparison to other people, it hasn't been too bad."
Gerow and her husband have been using bottled water to brush their teeth, wash their hands and feed their dog. They've got a stock of flavored sparkling water for themselves. Their last opportunity to shower was Monday night, before bed.
"Honestly, I'm grateful that I'm pregnant, and that I don't have a newborn right now, trying to keep a newborn warm," Gerow said. "Or have, you know, water to do formula, and all the other things I don't even know I'm gonna need yet."
Audrey Hartman, an Austin resident, believes her proximity to a hospital prevented her power from going off, but pipes in her home burst on Wednesday morning.
"My wife and I were in bed and we woke up and could hear water on," Hartman said. She had been filling every available water bottle in preparation for this moment and considered herself lucky.
"I'm pretty angry about what's happening to other people. I'm mad at the overall Texas situation," Hartman said.
The weather has disrupted water systems in several other southern cities, including in New Orleans and Shreveport, Louisiana, where city fire trucks delivered water to several hospitals and bottled water was being brought in for patients and staff, the Shreveport television station KSLA reported.
Meanwhile, tens of thousands of Texans are grappling with water damage in their homes. Nelson Garcia's pipes burst on Tuesday, flooding almost every room in his Houston house.
"I saw the ceiling gushing with water. I turned the water off but a lot of damage was done already ... I counted about 10 holes in the copper pipes and I wasn't that thorough."
He tried to extract water in the house using a machine from his carpet cleaning business but the power went off before he began.
Garcia, his wife and three children are now living with a family friend, hoping that insurance will cover the costs.
"I have a friend who does remodels and he said I'm easily looking at around $20,000 for repairs. I don't have that kind of money in the bank."
Katie Liu and Carl Nunziato had been staying with friends after their Austin home lost power on Sunday night. When they went to check on the house on Wednesday, their lights suddenly flickered on as power was finally restored. Then, two pipes burst.
Luckily, the flooding was under the house, and they were able to find caps for self-repairs at an open home improvement store. "Wasn't fun, but we got it done," Nunziato said.
On Thursday, with their pantry running low after days of sharing, they stood in line outside a local grocery store, even as a fresh shower of snow cascaded around them.
"Really just hoping to get anything, you know, of substance, besides noodles," Liu said.
The store was allowing customers to fill water from its taps, though they would need to boil it before drinking.
Meanwhile, Texan politicians keep displaying levels of empathy bordering on the psycopathic:
QuoteRick Perry says Texans will endure blackouts 'to keep the government out of their business'
Former Texas governor says winter weather crisis should not be used as an opportunity for Democrats to advance energy policies
Rick Perry, the former Texas governor who became Donald Trump's energy secretary, has said that Texans would willingly endure longer periods of sub-freezing temperatures if it stymied Democrats' energy policy and efforts to combat the climate crisis.
"Texans would be without electricity for longer than three days to keep the federal government out of their business," Perry was quoted saying in a blogpost published Wednesday on the website of the Republican congressman Kevin McCarthy.
And the poster boy for this sensitivity towards the plight of fellow Texans is, of course, Ted Cruz, who was caught flying to Cancún, and promptly threw his own family under the proverbial bus to save face.
QuoteTed Cruz flies to Cancún as millions of Texans freeze in the dark
Texas senator boarded flight on Wednesday night
Power out for millions after snowstorm hits Cruz's home state
Ted Cruz has sparked outcry after the Republican senator from Texas left the state for a trip to the sunny Mexican tourist resort of Cancún, as millions of his constituents endure deadly power outages and freezing temperatures.
Cruz was spotted waiting for, then later boarding, a flight to Cancún on Wednesday night. After photos of Cruz on the plane went viral on Twitter, prompting fierce criticism, the senator returned to Texas on Thursday, saying the trip was "obviously a mistake".
The senator moved quickly on Thursday to try to contain the self-inflicted damage. In a statement issued earlier in the afternoon, more than 12 hours after he was sighted, Cruz claimed he had taken the nearly 1,000-mile flight to Cancún merely to accompany his daughters on the plane.
Cruz's statement contradicted reports that the senator, who appeared to be accompanied by his wife, had originally been booked to return on Saturday, before hastily changing his flight on Thursday morning.
He also called the deadly emergency that has affected millions "an infuriating week for Texans".
Meanwhile, text messages obtained by the New York Times appeared to show the trip had been planned at short notice. Messages repeatedly sent by Cruz's wife, Heidi, described their house as "FREEZING" and invited others on a group message thread to join them at the Ritz-Carlton in Cancún.
The morality of Cruz's Mexican sojourn, came under further scrutiny when it was reported that Cruz directed police to help him travel through Houston airport.
As news of the vacation broke Cruz, normally a prolific tweeter, remained silent, but behind the scenes the senator changed his plans and scrambled to return to his besieged state, the New York Times reported.
Cruz's statement, issued from Mexico, contradicted the reporting of the Times, and multiple other outlets.
"With school cancelled for the week, our girls asked to take a trip with friends," Cruz said.
"Wanting to be a good dad, I flew down with them last night and am flying back this afternoon."
Cruz said he and his staff were in "constant communication with state and local leaders" about the crisis in Texas.
A journalist for the travel news outlet Skift had earlier reported that Cruz was originally due to return on Saturday, but had booked a flight at 6am on Thursday, to return that day.
It was discussed in Weather WTF, sorry :
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 18, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 18, 2021, 01:41:28 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Euh2aGDXcAQJn_K?format=jpg&name=small)
:lol:
Goddamn Ted don't back down own this and be a legend
Ah, one of the threads I routinely ignore in the forum. :lol:
You shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
Valmy sounds angry.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
If you ever want to pass for being British, this is a terrible start.
But then ever wanting to pass for being British, is a terrible start. :P
Quote from: Tamas on February 19, 2021, 08:07:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
If you ever want to pass for being British, this is a terrible start.
Not something I ever intended to do. :P
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
Only if one views chatter about the weather as only about the weather.
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
And yet, you created this thread.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 08:30:20 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AMYou shouldn't weather is very interesting ;)
It's one of the most inane, if not *the* most inane conversation topic there is, IMO.
And yet, you created this thread.
Extreme weather events that affect the lives of millions and create political controversies =/= It feels a bit nippy today, doesn't it?
From Twitter:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Euh8aqHWgAEdqVB?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Euh8aqHXAAMWeg9?format=jpg&name=small)
I don't really see how or why that is warranted (other than frustration at Cruz).
I liked this other reference, yet another proof that anything that might happen has already been referenced in The Simpsons.
(https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/8572724454?profile=RESIZE_710x)
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2021, 08:39:02 AM
I don't really see how or why that is warranted (other than frustration at Cruz).
You're right, we don't really know how hirsuite he is or not.
I love that after Cruz put out his statement someone (presumably a friend) released Heidi Cruz's group texts about going on holiday.
It's just extraordinary the extent that the more someone knows Cruz well, the more they're willing to brief against him. Whether it's family friends, fellow Senators, former fellow students etc - I'd be fascinated to see quite how awful he is in person, because as a politician he just seems like a politician but everyone who knows him seems to really dislike him :lol:
Best part is how he tried to blame the whole thing on his daughters. The sign of true political courage right there ... :lol:
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
Some Politicians matter.
but Zodiac Ted? Not a damn thing.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 09:22:58 AM
but Zodiac Ted? Not a damn thing.
That's got to be my favorite bizarre political fake news/meme of the past 10 years :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on February 19, 2021, 09:29:58 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 09:22:58 AM
but Zodiac Ted? Not a damn thing.
That's got to be my favorite bizarre political fake news/meme of the past 10 years :lol:
and the craziest thing? He leans into it!
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 19, 2021, 09:29:58 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 09:22:58 AM
but Zodiac Ted? Not a damn thing.
That's got to be my favorite bizarre political fake news/meme of the past 10 years :lol:
and the craziest thing? He leans into it!
Well - Zodiac always liked attention.
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1296134869320380419
QuoteTed Cruz
@tedcruz
California is now unable to perform even basic functions of civilization, like having reliable electricity.
Biden/Harris/AOC want to make CA's failed energy policy the standard nationwide.
Hope you don't like air conditioning!
QuoteOffice of the Governor of California
@CAgovernor
· Aug 19, 2020
We must do our part conserve energy through 10 PM:
👉🏾 Turn off unnecessary lights
👉🏾 Avoid using major appliances
👉🏾 Set thermostat to 78 or higher
Get more info on energy conservation. 🔽 twitter.com/Cal_OES/status...
7:20 PM · Aug 19, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
It is a function of living in a democracy.
People expect their leaders to be 'one of them' to an extent, to understand their experiences and to share them; they also expect their leaders to be working for the good of the public.
There may be little that a senator can *physically* do at that particular moment (he isn't going to personally reset generators or anything), but at the least they could be investigating the crisis, pressuring the right people who can get things done, bargaining with the federal government for aid, canvassing other senators to organize support for the state - you know, leadership stuff. Which is sort of what he is elected to do.
Buggering off to a warmer climate on vacation during a double crisis - pandemic and storm power outage - is both tone deaf (he relaxes while his constituents freeze in the dark) and a complete abdication of responsibility (he relaxes while everyone else is presumably working to correct the situation). It exemplifies his lack of care for others, which is more or less the hallmark of the Trump Republicans.
He compounded that by lying about it, notably claiming he only went to Mexico to support his daughters - thus adding lying and cowardice to selfishness. Lying and moral cowardice are also hallmarks of the Trump Republicans.
Quote from: Malthus on February 19, 2021, 10:19:55 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
It is a function of living in a democracy.
People expect their leaders to be 'one of them' to an extent, to understand their experiences and to share them; they also expect their leaders to be working for the good of the public.
There may be little that a senator can *physically* do at that particular moment (he isn't going to personally reset generators or anything), but at the least they could be investigating the crisis, pressuring the right people who can get things done, bargaining with the federal government for aid, canvassing other senators to organize support for the state - you know, leadership stuff. Which is sort of what he is elected to do.
Buggering off to a warmer climate on vacation during a double crisis - pandemic and storm power outage - is both tone deaf (he relaxes while his constituents freeze in the dark) and a complete abdication of responsibility (he relaxes while everyone else is presumably working to correct the situation). It exemplifies his lack of care for others, which is more or less the hallmark of the Trump Republicans.
He compounded that by lying about it, notably claiming he only went to Mexico to support his daughters - thus adding lying and cowardice to selfishness.
One of the best examples of going above and beyond was the major of Calgary during its flood crisis. He did a lot of things outside the normal job description and powers of a mere mayor to bring relief to the city.
Beto O'Rourke, meanwhile, organized an effort to call hundreds of thousands of Texans to see how they do and if anyone needed help.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
Moral responsibility. Show you share the same downsides as other citizens.
Quote from: Legbiter on February 19, 2021, 10:40:10 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
Moral responsibility. Show you share the same downsides as other citizens.
Especially when there are hints that you know you're above them.
Donald Trump Jr with a rambling video to defend Cruz.
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1362539576963837952?s=20
My favorite bit: "Now, if I were a Trump ... which I am ... I would come up with a nickname, like 'Cancun Cruz.'" :lol:
You can add to Ted Cruz's tally that he had asked Texans on monday to just stay home and refrain from travelling during this period, as well as having critiziced the major of Austin for also taking a holiday in Mexico during the Covid pandemic.
He's now also being lambasted for leaving his dog behind in Texas during the trip. :lol:
QuoteTed Cruz 'left behind' pet poodle, Snowflake, at 'freezing' Texas home during Cancun trip
Security guard was reportedly looking after Republican senator's dog during family's Mexico vacation
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EujeYvtWgAg2f9s?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Monoriu on February 19, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
I don't understand the focus on where politicians are during a crisis. It likely makes next to zero difference on people's water or power supply.
You don't understand any attitude other than sucking them off and granting them absolute unfettered power over your life so I can understand why you might find this reaction confusing :hmm:
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 07:56:42 AM
Valmy sounds angry.
I have been better.
One of my consultants is in Austin. As of yesterday he still had no water, and every place he checked was out of bottled drinks, so he was starting to melt snow to drink.
This is some real fucking third world shit :rolleyes:
My parents have had no power since Monday and our boiling water. They had been charging their cell phones in their cars but they are starting to run out of gas and oil.
Fortunately things should start melting tomorrow and the storm will pass tomorrow so I should be able to get to them soon.
Ridiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
Ridiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
On the flip side, we purposely located one of our failover data centers in Dallas due to the separate power grid.
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
One of my consultants is in Austin. As of yesterday he still had no water, and every place he checked was out of bottled drinks, so he was starting to melt snow to drink.
This is some real fucking third world shit :rolleyes:
Finally This War of Mine experience is useful for something.
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PMRidiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
Any opinion on Perry's statement about Texans happily enduring blackouts in order to keep the Feds out of their businesses?
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PMRidiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
Any opinion on Perry's statement about Texans happily enduring blackouts in order to keep the Feds out of their businesses?
Well if they are "happily" enduring the blackout that will make Perry's successor very happy but I have my doubts there is much happy enduring going on out there. I don't know how much the average Texan knows or cares about our precious independent grid and how willing average joes and janes are to make sacrifices to preserve it. They just want power.
Funny enough I was about to get into a big spat with Sharyland Utilities about them building a huge DC Tie to export power and making Texas Rate Payers pay for it, well they probably have enough ammunition to get that into the rates now.
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
One of my consultants is in Austin. As of yesterday he still had no water, and every place he checked was out of bottled drinks, so he was starting to melt snow to drink.
This is some real fucking third world shit :rolleyes:
Well they will be happy to live with it since they are not at the mercy of communism leftists.
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PMRidiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
Any opinion on Perry's statement about Texans happily enduring blackouts in order to keep the Feds out of their businesses?
Well if they are "happily" enduring the blackout that will make Perry's successor very happy but I have my doubts there is much happy enduring going on out there. I don't know how much the average Texan knows or cares about our precious independent grid and how willing average joes and janes are to make sacrifices to preserve it. They just want power.
I was paraphrasing from an article I saw, here it is so you can get a better picture:
QuoteRick Perry says Texans will endure blackouts 'to keep the government out of their business'
Former Texas governor says winter weather crisis should not be used as an opportunity for Democrats to advance energy policies
Rick Perry, the former Texas governor who became Donald Trump's energy secretary, has said that Texans would willingly endure longer periods of sub-freezing temperatures if it stymied Democrats' energy policy and efforts to combat the climate crisis.
"Texans would be without electricity for longer than three days to keep the federal government out of their business," Perry was quoted saying in a blogpost published Wednesday on the website of the Republican congressman Kevin McCarthy.
The blogpost had asserted that those "watching on the left may see the situation in Texas as an opportunity to expand their top-down, radical proposals. Two phrases come to mind: don't mess with Texas, and don't let a crisis go to waste".
Perry's comments come as millions of Texas are struggling with a brutal winter storm, which created a surge in demand for electricity to warm up homes unaccustomed to such extreme lows, buckling the state's power grid and causing widespread blackouts. Frigid temperatures and snow have covered most of the central US this week, resulting in at least two dozen deaths, but Texas in particular has reeled because most of its power is on a state-run grid that has repeatedly been described as mismanaged.
Residents of the Lone Star state are lining up at grocery stores that are running out of food. Pipes have burst because of the cold, leaving residents without water to drink or prepare food. Many are scrambling to find shelter in buildings with electricity. Multiple municipalities have instituted "boil water" orders, as power outages have impacted water treatment facilities.
Meanwhile, many Texans slammed authorities for their handling of the crisis. The severe winter storm has, among some Republicans, been used to open up a new culture war around the expansion of renewable energy, which is a stated priority of the Biden administration in order to address the climate crisis.
Perry was among the many Republicans who falsely claimed that frozen wind turbines spurred the mass electricity shutdowns. In reality, the utility system's failure to prepare for perils presented by cold temperatures – such as frozen natural gas pipes – had a significantly larger role in this crisis.
Renewable energy sources such as wind did see failures; these lapses contributed to 13% of Texas' power outages, while generating approximately 25% of the state's winter energy. But sources such as coal, gas and nuclear power ceded nearly twice as many gigawatts of power due to the low temperatures.
Nonetheless Greg Abbott, the Texas governor, voiced anti-wind sentiments similar to Perry's.
"This shows how the Green New Deal would be a deadly deal for the United States of America," the Republican governor told Fox News host Sean Hannity on Tuesday. "Our wind and our solar got shut down, and they were collectively more than 10% of our power grid, and that thrust Texas into a situation where it was lacking power on a statewide basis ... It just shows that fossil fuel is necessary."
Abbott's attack contradicts the operators of the Texas grid, which is overwhelmingly run on gas and oil, who have confirmed the plunging temperatures caused gas plants to seize up at the same time as a huge spike in demand for heating. Nevertheless, images of ice-covered wind turbines, taken in Sweden in 2014, were shared widely among conservatives on social media as proof of the frailty of clean energy.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Democratic congresswoman behind the Green New Deal platform, said that Abbott was "blaming policies he hasn't even implemented for his own failures" while the renewable energy industry also hit back.
"It is disgraceful to see the longtime antagonists of clean power engaging in a politically opportunistic charade misleading Americans," said Heather Zichal, the chief executive of the American Clean Power lobby group.
Perry and Abbott's own policies were what led to the explosion of Wind in Texas. So blaming the left for that is impressive. Do they take their orders from the left? The whole reason we have the separate grid is so the Governor can dictate every aspect of our energy system. Any failures are ultimately 100% the responsibility of the governor. They can whine and cry all they want but that is the price of power.
And of course everything comes down to partisan politics, at least let's figure out what actually happened before we start spreading memes about Sweden on Social Media eh?
Wait, what? Sweden?
Quote from: The Brain on February 19, 2021, 12:57:07 PM
Wait, what? Sweden?
QuoteNevertheless, images of ice-covered wind turbines, taken in Sweden in 2014, were shared widely among conservatives on social media as proof of the frailty of clean energy.
One of your wind turbines got covered in ice in 2014.
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:37:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
Ridiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
On the flip side, we purposely located one of our failover data centers in Dallas due to the separate power grid.
Tell your boss to put it in Quebec. Seperate Power grid & actual government oversight.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:37:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
Ridiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
On the flip side, we purposely located one of our failover data centers in Dallas due to the separate power grid.
Tell your boss to put it in Quebec. Seperate Power grid & actual government oversight.
:huh: In Texas government is an oversight.
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 19, 2021, 12:57:07 PM
Wait, what? Sweden?
QuoteNevertheless, images of ice-covered wind turbines, taken in Sweden in 2014, were shared widely among conservatives on social media as proof of the frailty of clean energy.
One of your wind turbines got covered in ice in 2014.
Oh no.
Anyway.
Quote from: The Brain on February 19, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:37:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
Ridiculous and disgraceful. And we cannot even blame the Feds for it since we have jealously kept them out of having any influence over the Texas power grid.
On the flip side, we purposely located one of our failover data centers in Dallas due to the separate power grid.
Tell your boss to put it in Quebec. Seperate Power grid & actual government oversight.
:huh: In Texas government is an oversight.
:hmm: The difference a word can make!
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 12:51:12 PM
Any opinion on Perry's statement about Texans happily enduring blackouts in order to keep the Feds out of their businesses?
He has a point given the kind of idiot that was running the Department of Energy c. 2017-2019.
There are 3 kinds of stupid: stupid, really fucking stupid, and Rick Perry stupid.
Well that's not fair. Perry is also very corrupt.
Quote from: The Brain on February 19, 2021, 01:00:18 PM
Oh no.
Anyway.
It proves wind energy cannot work as soon as it gets to 0C. Fortunately it has never gotten that cold in Sweden since then.
Quote from: Syt on February 19, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
Donald Trump Jr with a rambling video to defend Cruz.
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1362539576963837952?s=20
My favorite bit: "Now, if I were a Trump ... which I am ... I would come up with a nickname, like 'Cancun Cruz.'" :lol:
With friends like these ...
My mom watches MSNBC 27/7 and apparently they are predicting the end of Cruz's career. She asked me if I thought this was the end of Ted Cruz. I said "no, people didn't like Cruz that well to begin with. If they tolerate him now they'll tolerate him in 4 years." She asked me if I thought this was important (the Cruz trip not the power outage). Again I said "No. Nobody will care about this in six months.".
Cable news is a bane on this country.
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2021, 01:14:37 PM
It proves wind energy cannot work as soon as it gets to 0C. Fortunately it has never gotten that cold in Sweden since then.
The Dear Leader has said that wind power does not work, causes cancer, and makes your penis small (really - the wind causes shrinkage). Also Scandinavians are all nasty people. Except for those wonderful manly Norwegians. :wub:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 19, 2021, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2021, 12:51:12 PM
Any opinion on Perry's statement about Texans happily enduring blackouts in order to keep the Feds out of their businesses?
He has a point given the kind of idiot that was running the Department of Energy c. 2017-2019.
There are 3 kinds of stupid: stupid, really fucking stupid, and Rick Perry stupid.
There is something to be said about our total dysfunction of government here.
Someone upthread mentioned that Cruz could be displaying leadership by lobbying the government for more resources, or Senators for some legislative relief action. You might think that Cruz would lobby senior levels of Health and Human Services for the pandemic issue, and Energy for the power one, but of course there isn't any approved leadership for those roles because the Senate hasn't approved the nominations. Legislative relief action is undermined because the Senate is in recess.
I went back and checked the dates the HHS secretary got approved under Clinton and Bush 2: January 22 and February 2.
For Energy, it was January 22 and January 20.
It used to be a bipartisan priority to get new administrations up and running, but now it is deeply partisan--McConnell even suggested that he would block all Biden cabinet positions if he kept a senate majority. Schumer doesn't even seem to care: they just halted all confirmations for an impeachment trial with a preordained outcome and now are taking a week's recess. We will start next week with only 7 people confirmed. I suspect the pace of confirmations is an all time slow pace.
Cruz is probably the single most obstructionist senator in the body so he gets zero pass for the current dysfunction, but it is still worth nothing the dysfunction.
Is this Texas cold snap a once in a 1000 years event? :hmm: Those will blindside you (Laki and Heimaey eruptions here) but if this happens every 10-20 years you'd think the energy grid would be robust enough to handle it much better.
Quote from: Legbiter on February 19, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
Is this Texas cold snap a once in a 1000 years event? :hmm: Those will blindside you (Laki and Heimaey eruptions here) but if this happens every 10-20 years you'd think the energy grid would be robust enough to handle it much better.
I did see this is the first time the weather service has ever issued a winter weather advisory for Texas. Or winter storm warning, one of those.
We get a winter storm someplace every year, just usually not over the entire state like this and certainly not for multiple days at a time like this. Dallas and farther north get winter storms from time to time.
Did I read right here, texas' power grid isn't linked up to the rest of the US? :blink:
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 05:08:53 AM
Did I read right here, texas' power grid isn't linked up to the rest of the US? :blink:
They don't want Communist electrons to mess with their purity of essence.
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 05:08:53 AM
Did I read right here, texas' power grid isn't linked up to the rest of the US? :blink:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Reliability_Council_of_Texas
https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/08/texplainer-why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/
Looks like an accident of history combined with the desire of local companies to avoid Federal Regulation that either became State Policy under Republican and Democrat governors or something that they didn't care about.
Texas does have three connections to Mexico and 2 to the Eastern Interconnection according to what I have read just now.
Quotehttps://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/02/03/rolling-blackouts-force-texas-to-import-power-from-mexico/
Remember the Alamo!!!
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/17/texas-freeze-allows-jerry-jones-natural-gas-company-to-hit-jackpot/
QuoteTexas freeze allows Jerry Jones' natural gas company to "hit jackpot"
Posted by Charean Williams on February 17, 2021, 9:51 PM EST
As many as 4 million Texans have had no power during the historic winter weather experienced by the state this week. As of Wednesday night, 7 million in the state had water issues with either boil notices or no water at all.
Fingers are pointing. Pipes are bursting. Homes are flooding. Grocery store shelves are emptying. Gas pumps are drying. Nerves are fraying.
The Insurance Council of Texas said insurers are expecting the winter storm of 2021 to become the costliest weather event in the history of the state, topping Hurricane Harvey.
So how, you ask, does this relate to pro football? Glad you asked.
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones owns a Frisco-based natural gas producer that is cashing in on a surge in prices for the fuel, Bloomberg reports.
The billionaire owns Comstock Resources Inc., which has sold gas from its Haynesville Shale wells in East Texas and northern Louisiana at premium prices the past week. Demand has led to gas prices at some regional hubs to soar past $1,000 per million British thermal units, according to Bloomberg.
"This week is like hitting the jackpot with some of these incredible prices," Chief Financial Officer Roland Burns said on an earnings call Wednesday, via Bloomberg. "Frankly, we were able to sell at super premium prices for a material amount of production."
That seems good news for Jones, who, two years ago, had a total investment of $1.1 billion in Comstock. His oil and gas company has become the leading producer in one of the nation's largest natural gas basins.
Jones would make many in the state happy by using some of that money to sign quarterback Dak Prescott to a long-term deal sooner than later. He would even have enough money left over to upgrade to a better bottle of celebratory wine at Target.
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 05:08:53 AM
Did I read right here, texas' power grid isn't linked up to the rest of the US? :blink:
Yeah. 80% of our grid is not synchronous to the rest of the US. Quebec is the same way in Canada. So this failure us 100% our fault. Can't blame the Feds for this.
El Paso is on the Western Interconnect and not connected to the rest of the state at all, even via a DC tie.
Quote from: Valmy on February 20, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 05:08:53 AM
Did I read right here, texas' power grid isn't linked up to the rest of the US? :blink:
Yeah. 80% of our grid is not synchronous to the rest of the US. Quebec is the same way in Canada. So this failure us 100% our fault. Can't blame the Feds for this.
No, it is Biden, AOC, the EPA, and socialism at fault.
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
You are the Brits of Canada. :D You just HAVE to do things differently.
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2021, 02:10:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
You are the Brits of Canada. :D You just HAVE to do things differently.
:unsure:
Quote from: Jacob on February 21, 2021, 02:38:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2021, 02:10:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
You are the Brits of Canada. :D You just HAVE to do things differently.
:unsure:
:lol:
Tamas may want to change that to the Texans of Canada, but then what do we do with Alberta :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
One of my consultants is in Austin. As of yesterday he still had no water, and every place he checked was out of bottled drinks, so he was starting to melt snow to drink.
This is some real fucking third world shit :rolleyes:
If he's still having issues, Mozart's Coffee Roasters (https://mozartscoffee.com/) is offering up to 5 gallons of water (BYOC.) (Or was as of yesterday, he might want to phone first.)
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2021, 02:10:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
You are the Brits of Canada. :D You just HAVE to do things differently.
Britain is actually connected to continental grid and imports and exports power.
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2021, 02:10:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Is the Texas grid sync offset too? Ours is both physically disconnected and is a little offset, unless that changed, from the standard 60hz.
You are the Brits of Canada. :D You just HAVE to do things differently.
The weirdest analogy I have ever read about the Quebecois
The Brits do things differently from whom?
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 21, 2021, 04:37:59 PM
The Brits do things differently from whom?
Almost the rest of the entire world, basically. :P
In closer terms, Brits tend to not do anything the same way as Europeans, for instance. Say, from driving on the left side, not having IDs, having different electrick sockets to leaving the EU as an extreme thing to do.
Some countries do a few things differently (Ireland also drives on the left, the Scandinavians don't use the Euro...), but Brits do all those things differently.
The Empire knows best. It's weird because here we do things differently from the Empire.
Quote from: The Larch on February 21, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 21, 2021, 04:37:59 PM
The Brits do things differently from whom?
Almost the rest of the entire world, basically. :P
In closer terms, Brits tend to not do anything the same way as Europeans, for instance. Say, from driving on the left side, not having IDs, having different electrick sockets to leaving the EU as an extreme thing to do.
Some countries do a few things differently (Ireland also drives on the left, the Scandinavians don't use the Euro...), but Brits do all those things differently.
So Brits don't do anything the same as Europeans based on your ragtag collection of things?
I read about some Swede in Texas. She claimed that they have no insulation in their house and that that is quite common. I'm thinking that insulation in a place like Texas would be at least as important as insulation in Sweden. I get that there is no heating in lots of buildings, but to keep the heat out insulation should at least be around, otherwise you would waste electricity like mad with the ACs.
What's the deal there?
Quote from: Threviel on February 22, 2021, 04:23:08 AM
I read about some Swede in Texas. She claimed that they have no insulation in their house and that that is quite common. I'm thinking that insulation in a place like Texas would be at least as important as insulation in Sweden. I get that there is no heating in lots of buildings, but to keep the heat out insulation should at least be around, otherwise you would waste electricity like mad with the ACs.
What's the deal there?
Wouldn't that help the environment? And wouldn't that make you A LIBERAL?
Quote from: Threviel on February 22, 2021, 04:23:08 AM
I read about some Swede in Texas. She claimed that they have no insulation in their house and that that is quite common. I'm thinking that insulation in a place like Texas would be at least as important as insulation in Sweden. I get that there is no heating in lots of buildings, but to keep the heat out insulation should at least be around, otherwise you would waste electricity like mad with the ACs.
What's the deal there?
Why insulate when you have A/C? :P (Also, what Brain said.)
(https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2018.07.23/main.png)
(https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2018.07.23/chart2.png)
(https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2018.07.23/chart3.png)
Wait a minute... 5% of annual energy expenditure in Alaska goes to cooling down the houses? FFS.
In Japan houses don't have much insulation despite winters being proper winters as standard. They prioritise the worse discomfort of their hot summers. Insulation in the uk does make houses uncomfortably hot when the weather gets above 20.
I guess it's a hold over from before ac was everywhere when air flow was the way to keep cool?
We have a well insulated modern house with floor heating (thus very slow to react) and when the sun unexpectedly shines it can get very hot inside. I usually open a window and that's that.
For very hot summer days it can get very hot indeed. Normally we keep everything closed up as well as we can and the house stays coolish until the afternoon and then we open windows. It does not work very well when it's above 30 degrees, but then we only get 5-20 such days every year. If we start getting more hot days I'll install an AC and then the insulation will make damn sure that we won't be ruined by the electricity bill. I don't understand why insulation would be less important in a hot climate.
Saw on John Oliver that Texas ran into similar issue in 2011, and there were calls then to get the power infrastructure winter ready which were subsequently ignored. Is that true? :unsure:
Quote from: Syt on February 22, 2021, 07:42:51 AM
Saw on John Oliver that Texas ran into similar issue in 2011, and there were calls then to get the power infrastructure winter ready which were subsequently ignored. Is that true? :unsure:
That's the year Texas had to rely on Mexico, at least, as said previously.
Quote from: Threviel on February 22, 2021, 05:56:05 AM
Wait a minute... 5% of annual energy expenditure in Alaska goes to cooling down the houses? FFS.
No, on average 5% of total home energy is spent on cooling in the colder climates (that include about 50% of the US). There is no separate entry for Alaska.
Quote from: Syt on February 22, 2021, 07:42:51 AM
Saw on John Oliver that Texas ran into similar issue in 2011, and there were calls then to get the power infrastructure winter ready which were subsequently ignored. Is that true? :unsure:
I've read, I'll try to find it some Texan publication, that the operators are saying they did make some changes. But 1) it hasn't gotten cold enough to test anything until now 2) it was significantly colder than last time.
Quote from: grumbler on February 22, 2021, 09:21:39 AM
Quote from: Threviel on February 22, 2021, 05:56:05 AM
Wait a minute... 5% of annual energy expenditure in Alaska goes to cooling down the houses? FFS.
No, on average 5% of total home energy is spent on cooling in the colder climates (that include about 50% of the US). There is no separate entry for Alaska.
Wait a minute... Are you saying that Alaska is part of a group of states that spend 5% of their annual energy consumption on cooling?
J/k. I can obviously not into graphics.
Yeah, when I lived in NYC my AC ran like crazy during the summer, and that's part of the "cold" climate in the map.
Quote from: The Larch on February 21, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
not having IDs
:hmm:
There's not a national ID card system in the UK (assuming that's what you meant)? If so how does NHS work?
Quote from: Caliga on February 22, 2021, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 21, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
not having IDs
:hmm:
There's not a national ID card system in the UK (assuming that's what you meant)? If so how does NHS work?
Free at the point of delivery, after which hospital trusts then use their own revenue/enforcement staff to chase up people who aren't eligible or from outside the UK or countries we don't have agreements with.
Just saw some media outlets noting that there are tiktokers who have put out videos purportedly showing that the government created the 'fake' snow in Texas.
Aaah, the joys of an unleashed and unregulated energy market.
QuoteAfter Days Of Mass Outages, Some Texas Residents Now Face Huge Electricity Bills
Millions of Texas residents suffered last week when a winter storm caused a statewide electrical grid failure. But those who had power, even intermittently, are also paying a price — literally.
Many residents face enormous bills for the electricity they used during the storm.
Residents with variable-rate power plans are being hit the hardest. Such plans charge different prices for electricity depending on how much demand there is. The more demand, the higher the price.
Variable-rate plans are enticing to many people because the price of electricity is often low during normal weather conditions and because it theoretically allows people to use more electricity when the price is lower — for example, by running appliances overnight.
But when a winter storm caused Texas' grid to all but shut down last week, the wholesale price of electricity skyrocketed.
One of the most popular wholesale plans in the state is offered by the company Griddy. As the storm moved in, the company took the extraordinary step of urging its customers to switch to a different electricity provider. But it was too late for many residents. Switching electricity companies can take days, and in the meantime the price of electricity increased dramatically.
Griddy customers have taken to social media to post harrowing examples of electricity bills gone haywire.
Griddy laid the blame with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the vast majority of the state's grid, and the Public Utility Commission of Texas. As the storm caused temperatures across the state to plummet early last week, the utility commission ordered ERCOT to allow prices to increase to reflect the lack of supply. As a result, electricity prices skyrocketed.
The average price for electricity in Texas in the winter is about 12 cents per kilowatt-hour, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Texas utility regulators allowed that price to rise to $9 per kilowatt-hour.
Officials for ERCOT and the Public Utility Commission of Texas were not immediately available for comment.
"We intend to fight this for, and alongside, our customers for equity and accountability – to reveal why such price increases were allowed to happen as millions of Texans went without power," Griddy's leaders wrote in a blog post.
On Saturday, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott held an emergency meeting to discuss the exorbitant energy bills. "We have a responsibility to protect Texans from spikes in their energy bills that are a result of the severe winter weather and power outages," the governor said.
It's still unclear how many Texans are facing huge bills. At the Saturday meeting, a group of nine bipartisan state legislators "focused on the need to quickly calculate the total cost of these energy bills and how the state can help reduce this burden," according to a statement released by the governor's office.
Meanwhile, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has launched an investigation. His office is seeking documents from ERCOT, including communications between the council and electricity providers about "energy pricing and/or price increases" during the winter storm, as well as price-related complaints that the council received from customers.
Paxton is also investigating the prices charged by individual electricity providers during the storm, including prices charged by Griddy.
The top elected official for Dallas County, Judge Clay Jenkins, used Twitter to ask for help from his constituents. "Tweet back at me please- What electric companies sold Texans variable rate plans?" he wrote in a Friday tweet. "Variable rate plans are predatory as we all clearly are seeing now! Who did they target with those plans and what did they tell them?"
His constituents obliged. The replies poured in from customers of multiple companies, including Griddy and Reliant. Some residents said they were surprised to realize they were signed up for variable-rate plans.
Indeed, some customers with variable-rate plans may not even know that they are being charged in that way, according to reporting by Christopher Connelly of NPR member station KERA in Dallas.
"Many retail energy providers move customers automatically onto variable-rate plans after their fixed-rate contract term expires," Connelly reports. "If your 12-month, fixed-rate contract ends and you don't go shop for a new fixed-rate plan, you may find yourself moved onto a variable rate plan."
At least one state, Connecticut, has banned variable-rate power plans for residential customers. And this is not the first time such plans have drawn scrutiny after a polar vortex. In Pennsylvania, after a 2014 cold snap caused electricity rates to increase by 300% or more, the state's government took multiple utilities to court.
Quote from: mongers on February 22, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Free at the point of delivery, after which hospital trusts then use their own revenue/enforcement staff to chase up people who aren't eligible or from outside the UK or countries we don't have agreements with.
Ok, but without an identity card how do you prove you are who you say you are and thus eligible or not? Driver's license?
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 07:29:17 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 22, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Free at the point of delivery, after which hospital trusts then use their own revenue/enforcement staff to chase up people who aren't eligible or from outside the UK or countries we don't have agreements with.
Ok, but without an identity card how do you prove you are who you say you are and thus eligible or not? Driver's license?
People are assigned NHS patient numbers.
Are you eligible for free care?
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 07:29:17 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 22, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Free at the point of delivery, after which hospital trusts then use their own revenue/enforcement staff to chase up people who aren't eligible or from outside the UK or countries we don't have agreements with.
Ok, but without an identity card how do you prove you are who you say you are and thus eligible or not? Driver's license?
More important to prove who you are to get the correct medical treatment and avoid identity theft.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 23, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
Are you eligible for free care?
Yes, however as of 2015, there is an NHS surcharge that has to be paid when applying for a visa to then defray some cost of use of NHS. I think it was about 1k for my last visa but I believe costs have gone up again.
Quote from: garbon on February 23, 2021, 07:36:48 AM
People are assigned NHS patient numbers.
So you just show up at the doctor and say "Hi, I'm Patient #123456" and that's it?
Sorry for all the questions but I really thought the UK had national identity cards. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 08:00:55 AM
So you just show up at the doctor and say "Hi, I'm Patient #123456" and that's it?
Sorry for all the questions but I really thought the UK had national identity cards. :hmm:
No you never really need your NHS number. It can be helpful, but it's more of an internal record.
Quote from: garbon on February 23, 2021, 07:50:40 AM
Yes, however as of 2015, there is an NHS surcharge that has to be paid when applying for a visa to then defray some cost of use of NHS. I think it was about 1k for my last visa but I believe costs have gone up again.
I think it's calculated annually?
Quote
£470 per year for a student or Youth Mobility Scheme visa, for example £940 for a 2-year visa
£470 per year for visa and immigration applicants who are under the age of 18 at time of application
£624 per year for all other visa and immigration applications, for example £3,120 for a 5-year visa
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
No you never really need your NHS number. It can be helpful, but it's more of an internal record.
:hmm:
Now I'm really confused. So you go to your doctor and there's no need to prove you are who you say you are? If there is a need, then how do you do it?
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 08:37:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
No you never really need your NHS number. It can be helpful, but it's more of an internal record.
:hmm:
Now I'm really confused. So you go to your doctor and there's no need to prove you are who you say you are? If there is a need, then how do you do it?
Everytime I've gone to new GP or hospital I did some new patient paperwork. I think only GP needed by ID
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 08:00:55 AM
So you just show up at the doctor and say "Hi, I'm Patient #123456" and that's it?
Sorry for all the questions but I really thought the UK had national identity cards. :hmm:
No you never really need your NHS number. It can be helpful, but it's more of an internal record.
Quote from: garbon on February 23, 2021, 07:50:40 AM
Yes, however as of 2015, there is an NHS surcharge that has to be paid when applying for a visa to then defray some cost of use of NHS. I think it was about 1k for my last visa but I believe costs have gone up again.
I think it's calculated annually?
Quote
£470 per year for a student or Youth Mobility Scheme visa, for example £940 for a 2-year visa
£470 per year for visa and immigration applicants who are under the age of 18 at time of application
£624 per year for all other visa and immigration applications, for example £3,120 for a 5-year visa
Yes and pro-rated as 5 year spouse scheme is actually two separate 30 month visas.
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 08:37:36 AM:hmm:
Now I'm really confused. So you go to your doctor and there's no need to prove you are who you say you are? If there is a need, then how do you do it?
Date of birth and name - I mean this is for a GP where you need to register. I'm not sure what you need for that because once you're in the system you just move your records. I don't know if you need ID - I don't think so. You don't need proof of address or immigration status.
If you're in the hospital and you're a visitor to the UK then you (or your insurer) will be asked to pay after treatment (with exemptions for threatment for A&E, family planning, sexual health, covid, and genital mutilation)
Quote from: garbon on February 23, 2021, 08:42:30 AM
Everytime I've gone to new GP or hospital I did some new patient paperwork. I think only GP needed by ID
Yeah you fill in your details for them to create a record rather than to prove eligibility.
Edit: Create or match and update records.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 08:49:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 23, 2021, 08:42:30 AM
Everytime I've gone to new GP or hospital I did some new patient paperwork. I think only GP needed by ID
Yeah you fill in your details for them to create a record rather than to prove eligibility.
Edit: Create or match and update records.
You do need proof of address for that initial step to make sure you fall within that surgeries coverage area.
Native-Brits are literally born into the system. You get your NHS number assigned more or less from birth and are registered at your parent(s)'s GP. When you move you change GP and your records follow. Your GP will correspond with specialists at hospitals, clinics and so on if you get specialist treatment. You tend to get asked simple security questions at various points; the pharmacist asks me for the first line of my address when I pick up drugs for example.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 23, 2021, 09:01:09 AM
Native-Brits are literally born into the system. You get your NHS number assigned more or less from birth and are registered at your parent(s)'s GP. When you move you change GP and your records follow. Your GP will correspond with specialists at hospitals, clinics and so on if you get specialist treatment. You tend to get asked simple security questions at various points; the pharmacist asks me for the first line of my address when I pick up drugs for example.
Yeah, that is the efficiency of a Unitary system. You never really have to worry about where in the country you are, your one number follows you and so it seems like you don't even have or need one.
In Canada, where the provinces administer health care, it is a bit more involved as each province wants to makes sure it is only paying the costs of its residence. As a result, typically when we go to a new health care provider, we present our health card and that is recorded. But we don't need to present it after the initial visit.
Cal, what happens in the background is the physicians bill the government's medical plan using that number as the patient ID. The patient never sees any of that because, they don't pay anything.
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 06:17:48 AM
Aaah, the joys of an unleashed and unregulated energy market.
Needless to say nobody is going to paying those bills. No regulations and the power of the free market all sound great until the mobs with torches show up.
And of course only a tiny percentage of rate payers have variable rates like that. I cannot imagine how you would win much, the prices always go way up in the summer, right when your usage would go up.
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 12:52:59 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 06:17:48 AM
Aaah, the joys of an unleashed and unregulated energy market.
Needless to say nobody is going to paying those bills. No regulations and the power of the free market all sound great until the mobs with torches show up.
And of course only a tiny percentage of rate payers have variable rates like that. I cannot imagine how you would win much, the prices always go way up in the summer, right when your usage would go up.
Let's say that mobs with torches are an inherent, indirect regulator of the market that is always part of the equation. :lol:
So will those bills be voided? Recalculated? A top prize established?
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 12:56:59 PM
Let's say that mobs with torches are an inherent, indirect regulator of the market that is always part of the equation. :lol:
So will those bills be voided? Recalculated? A top prize established?
I suspect recalculated to an earlier rate.
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 01:00:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 12:56:59 PM
Let's say that mobs with torches are an inherent, indirect regulator of the market that is always part of the equation. :lol:
So will those bills be voided? Recalculated? A top prize established?
I suspect recalculated to an earlier rate.
Do you think that this will make Texan authorities change the way they've been letting the energy market be controlled by the private sector? Or increase regulations regarding maintenance and winter-proofing, and the like?
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 12:52:59 PM
I cannot imagine how you would win much, the prices always go way up in the summer, right when your usage would go up.
I think having variable rates makes a lot of sense, logically, but you do need some limits to handle corner cases like natural disasters, and there has to be transparency (or the whole point is lost). Having variable rates would encourage people to use energy in a counter-cyclical manner, which would lower the need for capacity in the network.
It would also reward people who can handle it for not blasting their AC as much during the summer. If you're the person who can tolerate the heat well, or you have a house that naturally keeps cool in the summer, you can probably benefit from fair variable rate pricing. You'll also have some incentives to make sure that your house can keep cool without AC.
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 01:00:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 23, 2021, 12:56:59 PM
Let's say that mobs with torches are an inherent, indirect regulator of the market that is always part of the equation. :lol:
So will those bills be voided? Recalculated? A top prize established?
I suspect recalculated to an earlier rate.
Do you think that this will make Texan authorities change the way they've been letting the energy market be controlled by the private sector? Or increase regulations regarding maintenance and winter-proofing, and the like?
The two places that have done this with regards to the energy market are California and us (we basically copied them with a few additional rules to correct some problems that had been having). And I suppose people have noticed we are the two states that seem to have energy problems, thus the continued existence of centrally planned communist energy systems in most of the rest of the states.
But I suspect some adjustments will be made, new rules (we don't call them regulations, they are RULES...even though that is the same damn thing but it plays better) will be introduced and basically we will try to make the current system work.
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2021, 01:10:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 12:52:59 PM
I cannot imagine how you would win much, the prices always go way up in the summer, right when your usage would go up.
I think having variable rates makes a lot of sense, logically, but you do need some limits to handle corner cases like natural disasters, and there has to be transparency (or the whole point is lost). Having variable rates would encourage people to use energy in a counter-cyclical manner, which would lower the need for capacity in the network.
It would also reward people who can handle it for not blasting their AC as much during the summer. If you're the person who can tolerate the heat well, or you have a house that naturally keeps cool in the summer, you can probably benefit from fair variable rate pricing. You'll also have some incentives to make sure that your house can keep cool without AC.
Well in any case only a tiny number of customers even have the option.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 23, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
Cal, what happens in the background is the physicians bill the government's medical plan using that number as the patient ID. The patient never sees any of that because, they don't pay anything.
Yeah, I understand that nobody pays. I am just surprised you don't have to present an ID, because even though I understand that the program is fully government-funded, I assume they are still expected to track services provided by patient, if for no other reason than to be able to track comprehensive plans of care for each resident.
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
Yeah, I understand that nobody pays. I am just surprised you don't have to present an ID, because even though I understand that the program is fully government-funded, I assume they are still expected to track services provided by patient, if for no other reason than to be able to track comprehensive plans of care for each resident.
So they have medical records - from my understanding the NHS' patient records is the gold mine for health research because it's single records, from a single provider for almost an entire country. Edit: And as RH says normally across people's entire lifetime - I certainly know Google have a lot of interest in working with the NHS on analysing their data which has, so far, been largely resisted (thank God).
But you don't need any form of ID to access it. When I go for an appointment I have to provide month and day of birth and my surname. I suppose there is a fraud risk - but I don't really know what anyone would get out of it given that they could get their own free treatment if they wanted.
In terms of government services I've accessed I don't think I've ever had to show ID. I've no doubt that's probably less likely to be the case especially if you're a minority given May's time as Home Secretary and the hostile environment.
Also relevant is that we don't have a national ID that people have so there are people with no form of ID and, in this country, they are disproportionately the elderly who are probably likely to use quite a lot of government services: pensions, NHS, free bus pass etc. So any ID requirement would discriminate against the elderly (unless there's a mandatory, free ID card).
Can people from visa waiver countries sail in, ring up big medical bills, and walk away?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 23, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Can people from visa waiver countries sail in, ring up big medical bills, and walk away?
I don't think so. So if you're moving to the UK there is a surcharge of £4-650 a year for the NHS for the duration of your visa.
But if you're just a visitor/tourist from the US, say, who gets loads of NHS treatment then, as mentioned, the hospital will take your details and bill you for it at a rate of 150% NHS rates (so the rate the NHS internally mark the treatment as costing). That's still probably lower than the cost of treatment in the US based on the bills I've heard about.
However there are exemptions and no-one is charged for A&E, family planning, sexual health, treatment relating to genital mutilation or covid (testing, treatment or vaccination - though you'd need to be registered with the NHS for that).
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
I don't think so. So if you're moving to the UK there is a surcharge of £4-650 a year for the NHS for the duration of your visa.
But if you're just a visitor/tourist from the US, say, who gets loads of NHS treatment then, as mentioned, the hospital will take your details and bill you for it at a rate of 150% NHS rates (so the rate the NHS internally mark the treatment as costing). That's still probably lower than the cost of treatment in the US based on the bills I've heard about.
However there are exemptions and no-one is charged for A&E, family planning, sexual health, treatment relating to genital mutilation or covid (testing, treatment or vaccination - though you'd need to be registered with the NHS for that).
OK, but let's say I travel to You Kay, get run over by the Grenadier Guards, and tell the NHS that I'm you? Maybe slip you a fiver for the trouble.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 23, 2021, 05:09:10 PM
OK, but let's say I travel to You Kay, get run over by the Grenadier Guards, and tell the NHS that I'm you? Maybe slip you a fiver for the trouble.
If you get run over that's A&E (accidents and emergency) - you don't have to pay unless you're admitted into hospital for an overnight stay.
But in principle there's nothing to stop you saying that you're me. They may notice some differences between us though.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 04:57:21 PM
But you don't need any form of ID to access it. When I go for an appointment I have to provide month and day of birth and my surname. I suppose there is a fraud risk - but I don't really know what anyone would get out of it given that they could get their own free treatment if they wanted.
Like Yi is saying, the financial risk would be that people who aren't entitled to NHS services could pretty easily steal them, from the sounds of it. If you don't mind funding the services of people who aren't entitled to them, then that's on you all collectively as UK taxpayers. :)
Keep in mind that I think your system, and systems like it, are great and I wish we had one here, but were we to have one here I'd want to be sure it was being used appropriately.
Also, please don't take my comments to mean that I think healthcare should be denied to illegal immigrants, because I don't think that at all. I think access to healthcare should be treated as a basic human right. But if, say, we had such a system here and 2 million people were coming here for treatments yearly, I'd want to know that so I could try to determine why.
The basic principle of the NHS isn't based on entitlement or not. It's that it is available free at the point of (medical) need. It's not like other bits of the welfare state where there normally is an element of entitlement or eligibility or not. That's why, for example, you are not required to show your immigration status to register with a GP. I think that aspect is a fairly key difference with the social insurance models in much of Europe (which I quite like).
My understanding is that the NHS works a little bit like tax and it's mainly based on residency - so if you're in the UK for 183 days in a year then you are considered resident for the purposes of paying tax and the NHS (which makes sense given how the NHS is funded).
There are scare stories of health tourism been scare stories of NHS health tourism. From studies it's pretty small - so £1-300 million is the estimated cost from people coming to the UK for treatment, there's also £1.8 billion on people who are visiting the UK and require treatment (I imagine mainly in A&E). They are big numbers but the NHS budget is about £150 billion so it's not a huge issue and it is partially offset by recover of about £350-500 million from individuals and there's also money that the NHS recovers through the European Health Insurance Card.
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 23, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
Cal, what happens in the background is the physicians bill the government's medical plan using that number as the patient ID. The patient never sees any of that because, they don't pay anything.
Yeah, I understand that nobody pays. I am just surprised you don't have to present an ID, because even though I understand that the program is fully government-funded, I assume they are still expected to track services provided by patient, if for no other reason than to be able to track comprehensive plans of care for each resident.
Cal I'm gonna guess your job or a job you used to do in part involved that function, which is perhaps why you're finding it so hard to comprehend that we don't really have 'Cals' over here. :P
The principal guardian against fraud by medical tourists would almost certainly be the GP. In order to access expensive medical care at hospitals one would need a letter of referral from him/her. The problem for the potential fraudster is that the GP will have met most of their patients, he/she will be especially familiar with patients with complex and expensive medical needs.
The NHS counter fraud authority reckons that health tourism fraud is only £35m a year https://cfa.nhs.uk/fraud-prevention/reference-guide/nhscfa-thematic-fraud-areas/fraudulent-access-to-NHS-care . Which is simply not big enough to justify heavy-handed checks on all patients.
I reckon that a better way to cheat the NHS is to supply them with faulty goods and services; for more details on that contact your nearest tory MP :P
One way, perhaps the main way, would be for a Brit to move to a foreign country and not inform the NHS. So, for example, I could retire to Florida and skimp on my medical insurance; then, if a costly illness occurred, fly straight back to the UK and claim that I had never left. Yes, i can see that working.
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 23, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
Cal, what happens in the background is the physicians bill the government's medical plan using that number as the patient ID. The patient never sees any of that because, they don't pay anything.
Yeah, I understand that nobody pays. I am just surprised you don't have to present an ID, because even though I understand that the program is fully government-funded, I assume they are still expected to track services provided by patient, if for no other reason than to be able to track comprehensive plans of care for each resident.
Indeed, and as I and others noted above, it is an individual's medical health number that is used to track services provided to an individual patient.
As an aside, one of the big benefits of that is it provides a treasure trove of data for medical researchers assessing the benefits/risks of various treatments.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 23, 2021, 04:57:21 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
Yeah, I understand that nobody pays. I am just surprised you don't have to present an ID, because even though I understand that the program is fully government-funded, I assume they are still expected to track services provided by patient, if for no other reason than to be able to track comprehensive plans of care for each resident.
So they have medical records - from my understanding the NHS' patient records is the gold mine for health research because it's single records, from a single provider for almost an entire country. Edit: And as RH says normally across people's entire lifetime - I certainly know Google have a lot of interest in working with the NHS on analysing their data which has, so far, been largely resisted (thank God).
But you don't need any form of ID to access it. When I go for an appointment I have to provide month and day of birth and my surname. I suppose there is a fraud risk - but I don't really know what anyone would get out of it given that they could get their own free treatment if they wanted.
In terms of government services I've accessed I don't think I've ever had to show ID. I've no doubt that's probably less likely to be the case especially if you're a minority given May's time as Home Secretary and the hostile environment.
Also relevant is that we don't have a national ID that people have so there are people with no form of ID and, in this country, they are disproportionately the elderly who are probably likely to use quite a lot of government services: pensions, NHS, free bus pass etc. So any ID requirement would discriminate against the elderly (unless there's a mandatory, free ID card).
I think you and Cal are talking past eachother. He is wondering how a patient is identified. Their individual medical plan number is the identifier. You are talking about confirmation that you are who you claim you are, which is a separate issue.
I think Cal is asking both.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
I think Cal is asking both.
Then he got an answer to both :)
I was, and I did. Thanks guys. :)
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 24, 2021, 02:27:32 AM
...snip....
I reckon that a better way to cheat the NHS is to supply them with faulty goods and services; for more details on that contact your nearest tory MP :P
:yes:
I entirely agree.
I guess it makes sense that the power companies couldn't handle the cold, but now they can't handle the heat either. Isn't that what Texas is know for?
Quote from: HVC on June 16, 2021, 05:45:51 PM
I guess it makes sense that the power companies couldn't handle the cold, but now they can't handle the heat either. Isn't that what Texas is know for?
Struggling during peak summer heat is normal, happens all the time. Just now people are paying more attention.
Non peak power consumption doesn't justify investing in greater capacity, or is there another issue? GF and Viper have plenty to sell you. Open your grid :P
Quote from: HVC on June 16, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Non peak power consumption doesn't justify investing in greater capacity, or is there another issue? GF and Viper have plenty to sell you. Open your grid :P
Rapidly growing load mostly. Every summer is an adventure. The winter is usually the easy part.
A/C consumption in Texas during the summer must be through several roofs, I imagine.
Quote from: The Larch on June 16, 2021, 06:15:43 PM
A/C consumption in Texas during the summer must be through several roofs, I imagine.
Oh yeah.
The way it works in HK is that the power companies are guaranteed a return, say 10%, on capital investments. They can charge whatever price until they reach that cap.
So they are incentivized to maximise investments in capacity. They always invest more than enough to meet any conceivable demand. There are entire power plants sitting idle just in case, even during peak demand.
We just turn on the air-conditioning as much as we want, and we almost never have any issues with stoppages. If there are, the power companies will simply invest in more spare capacity to ensure the power supply is 200% safe.
Quote from: Monoriu on June 16, 2021, 08:25:53 PM
The way it works in HK is that the power companies are guaranteed a return, say 10%, on capital investments. They can charge whatever price until they reach that cap.
So they are incentivized to maximise investments in capacity. They always invest more than enough to meet any conceivable demand. There are entire power plants sitting idle just in case, even during peak demand.
We just turn on the air-conditioning as much as we want, and we almost never have any issues with stoppages. If there are, the power companies will simply invest in more spare capacity to ensure the power supply is 200% safe.
That is exactly how it works in most places in the US except for a few US States, like Texas and California, who are trying to use this free market framework to get a more efficient grid. We were happy to brag about it when it resulted in lower energy rates. Though El Paso still works exactly as you describe, they kind of do their own thing out west.
Though we don't really have power companies anymore in ERCOT. Generators, transmission, and distribution are all different companies now.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 24, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
One way, perhaps the main way, would be for a Brit to move to a foreign country and not inform the NHS. So, for example, I could retire to Florida and skimp on my medical insurance; then, if a costly illness occurred, fly straight back to the UK and claim that I had never left. Yes, i can see that working.
Happens all the time with the infamous section of Spanish expats et al. It's the main fraud the nhs gets.
Certainly when I moved abroad I never told them and remained in the system.
Anyway to defend our grid I will point out that this was the highest load in the history of ERCOT. Thanks to COVID ending it is increasing much faster than usual expected.
And despite that is was just a conservation warning which as I said happens several times a summer anyway, no some load shed emergency.