Poll
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
I was going to say "the black guy", but this being Spain I figured his skin tone wasn't outside the range of what you might expect... :unsure:
That one should go instead of Covid? :lol:
Incel is a state of mind.
I'd rather vote for Covid :sleep:
Phrenology lives!
Nope, it is outside the normal range, although that's getting into slightly dodgy territory. In that guy's case there's no argument, as he's actually half African (his mother is from Equatorial Guinea, a former Spanish colony).
I have a rule that my trust in a politician scales lower in proportion to how close their collar line above the tie is to the horizontal.
So I image-searched the pic and read up on the guy.
[spoiler]Is he a riot just because he's a black guy in a far-right nationalist party, or is there more to it than that?[/spoiler]
The guy himself is rather vanilla, it is just that indeed [spoiler]he's the (joint) first ever Spaniard of African descent to be elected to national office (he's a Spanish MP), and he did so while standing for a far right anti-immigration party. He's their "we're not racist!" card[/spoiler]
heh
Kind of?
You know the rules - you must vote for the hottest pic, and just hope he or she is not a Nazi. :contract:
Well, she was kicked upstairs and now she's the head of the party (or at least what remains of it) nationally.
Now there were some nasty party shenanigans involved in choosing the Catalan candidate. The Ciudadanos primary voters, in all their wisdom, chose this:
(https://img2.rtve.es/v/4652258?w=1600&preview=1530543009539.jpg)
However she was, to be frank, not a very good parlamentarian and given they were cratering in the polls she was "invited" to resign and the party establishment kinda forced the current candidate. It was kinda ugly and that girl ultimately left the party and is now #2 in Incel guy's list.
Incel guy is probably the most Barrister-y candidate, but I played dirty and chose a picture without a tie in order to confound him :sleep:
Yes, me. I vote for the worse candidate.
Good instinct.
You're fine, she's the [spoiler]En Comú - Podemos candidate[/spoiler]
I did so too, in the name of tradition. I'll admit I was tempted to vote for COVID on this one. :P
Women certainly look better with teeth, but if that's all you go on you will have a lot of mistaken identity. Many, many women have teeth.
Well then. Well worth climbing the mountain with Nemas and his so.
Now she would have gotten my vote.
Ah yes. THAT party.
Voter #4, blond lady. Hopefully, she's not far left. The older lady with a shamanistic baton ;) , the one you know personally, does look far left.
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_449_220/uploads/2019/11/20/5fa53700ac4bf.jpeg)
:ultra:
That baton is given to Spanish mayors as symbol of their authority, nothing shamanistic in it :P
Can't say I see the resemblance :hmm:
So maybe Chinless isn't the only incel... :ph34r:
Not having enough in common with the others to form a coalition seems to be one of the best endorsements.
But I was right with her being far left! :P
Somebody did some research of how the PQ in Canada has dealt with the separatist question.
Well, it's not as if PP has ever been severely punished at the voting booths for its unabashed corruption, so...
But that was not because of their corruption, it was because of the rise of Ciudadanos and the arrival of Vox.
I'd say that their rise was helped by PP's corruption.
I don't think that was much of a factor myself. PP plumetted because it started to have serious competition for votes on the right wing, which it had monopolized until then.
It's even funnier when instead of colours they use fruits and vegetables. :P
"Tomatoes are up to 26%, while cucumbers fall to 12%"
Also on my Twitter Podemos is typically the aubergine emoji which is a choice :lol:
Well, they're the purple party, after all. It's either that or beets. :P
Association with yellow? :unsure:
What are they using for ERC nowadays, then?
Grapes?
Lemons.
Could be, but for some reason the only fruit they commonly use is oranges for Ciudadanos.
Now that I think of it, PP always uses blue, which is awfully difficult to associate to a fruit or veggie. :lol:
They can get away with it using fish, although it breaks a bit the theme.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
They are a liberal political party...what's left of them.
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
They grew through a weird coalition of anti-nationalist progressives (they were born as a splinter of the Catalan SocDems), liberals, and Spanish nationalists. Eventually they had to decide what exactly they wanted to be, which would inevitably alienate some of these groups. Problem is that they went so shoddily about it that they ultimately managed to alienate them all.
Since Inés took over the she's running it as a traditional European liberal party, but seems it's too late, plus I'm not sure that brand has that many buyers in this day and age.
And they got no MPs, first party in number of votes not to get any. Were these results the death throes of Pujolism? It's quite amazing how Puigdemont has completely hijacked and turned the old Convergencia into a totally different thing.
Newsflash, they've always sucked, and are in a death spiral since 2019, all thanks to Albert Rivera and his crazy machinations. It remains to be seen if they're able to stabilize the bloodlet and accept a much more reduced role or if they'll inevitably become the new UPyD and eventually dissappear in 1-2 election cycles.
Yeah, it's possibly the end - which is a bad thing since it removes a "landing platform" for those more moderate nationalist types (my dad voted for them, for example). Thing is, if the two moderate splinters from Convergència (PDeCAT and PNC) had agreed to a coalition, you add up their votes and they get 4 MPs.
They seem the perfect example that in much of Europe if you vote liberal they will focus on winning the right and normally coming to some sort of accommodation with/fight for the votes of the populist right/far-right. So we should be under no illusions about liberals <_<
I've had to look who are these PNC types (as I said, it's difficult to keep track of all the former Convergencia splinters), and I see that they barely got 5k votes, would they have tipped the balance that much?
She's running it as a traditional liberal party because their Spanish nationalist branch (ie, the "Girauta" branch) has defected to Vox (which tells you that their commitment to Cs was tenuous at best since the beginning) and their progressive branch is going back to the Socialists, so liberals are basically the ones left after the storm has passed.
Yeah, PDeCAT only needed 1000 more votes to get over the 3% cutoff.
Yes, the figure is fantastically ironic.
Unió formally dissolved some years ago but their spirit lives on! There are, of course, several splinters. :lol:
- Demócrates de Catalunya: populist right separatist splinter. They were part of ERC's coalition in 2017 (because they had feuded with PDeCAT and thus didn't join the JxCAT coalition), but ran with JxCAT in 2021 (since PDeCAT had been kicked out, and they are a much better ideological fit). They score very highly on the craziness scale, they are essentially the right-wing version of CUP. They got one seat this election as part of JxCAT.
- Units per Avançar: the moderate non-separatist splinter. They are the closest to the original party. They ran in coalition with PSC in 2017 and 2021, and got 1 seat each time.
Some other members of Unió have popped up in the large array of nationalist, non-separatist microparties that have failed to capture any traction: Lliures, Portes Obertes, Lliga Democràtica, etc...
:D
So many parties... Being used to the alternance of two nearly identical parties (in governance policies) for most of my life, I feel... overwhelmed... :P
That'll do nicely indeed! :cheers:
Llaneras' content is always great. He actually started as Spain's Nate Silver, analyzing election polling and then he moved to other areas.
And yeah, pro-independence vote has always been tied to both income and origin (and income and origin have also been closely linked themselves). So middle-class and up Catalan-speaking dudes (I'm the weird exception) vote separatist, Spanish-speaking working class votes unionist.
He also got convicted for being an RAF, ETA and Al-Qaeda (?!) apologist, among others. Charming fellow.
The lack of language divide is probably helpful for Scottish independence - because there the more working class and deprived an area the more likely it was to vote for independence. It might be different if there was also a Gaelic or Scots angle - although there is a wider cultural movement to improve position of Gaelic and in nationalist circles a growth in the use of a type of Scots. But neither is a particularly core issue.
Question: Who would you vote for?
Option 1: 
votes: 11
votes: 11
Option 2: 
votes: 2
votes: 2
Option 3: 
votes: 1
votes: 1
Option 4: 
votes: 6
votes: 6
Option 5: 
votes: 1
votes: 1
Option 6: 
votes: 3
votes: 3
Option 7: 
votes: 5
votes: 5
Option 8: 
votes: 0
votes: 0
Option 9: 
votes: 4
votes: 4
Title: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:51:30 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:51:30 PM
So, today the Catalan Supreme Court of Justice has finally struck down the decree from the Catalan government cancelling the election planned for Valentine's Day, so we're voting in two weeks! :w00t:
Polls are all over the place, some have separatists losing their majority, while others have them increasing it and even getting past the 50% treshold for the first time. With the pandemic, it's hard to predict turnout, although we're having record levels of mail vote.
Polls are all over the place, some have separatists losing their majority, while others have them increasing it and even getting past the 50% treshold for the first time. With the pandemic, it's hard to predict turnout, although we're having record levels of mail vote.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Damn, I forgot one and I refuse to make yet another poll :blush:
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/202002/1200_1581092877_Pere_Aragones_foto_Adria_Costa_006ACRX2886.jpg)
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/202002/1200_1581092877_Pere_Aragones_foto_Adria_Costa_006ACRX2886.jpg)
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
Dont worry, nobody would pick that guy.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 01:57:51 PM
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 01:57:51 PM
Voted #4, she looks compassionate.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:07:42 PM
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:07:42 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
I was going to say "the black guy", but this being Spain I figured his skin tone wasn't outside the range of what you might expect... :unsure:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on January 29, 2021, 02:08:36 PM
Post by: Sheilbh on January 29, 2021, 02:08:36 PM
3rd from the bottom but very tempted by 2nd from the bottom.
Edit:
Edit:
QuoteThe sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:oh no
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:20:40 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:20:40 PM
2nd from the bottom I actually know her personally (that picture shows her accepting the mayoral staff from my hometown). My brother was part of her campaign staff.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
#5 Looks like an Incel.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Damn, I forgot one and I refuse to make yet another poll :blush:
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/202002/1200_1581092877_Pere_Aragones_foto_Adria_Costa_006ACRX2886.jpg)
That one should go instead of Covid? :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 02:27:26 PM
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
#5 Looks like an Incel.
Incel is a state of mind.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:34:00 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 02:25:08 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Damn, I forgot one and I refuse to make yet another poll :blush:
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/202002/1200_1581092877_Pere_Aragones_foto_Adria_Costa_006ACRX2886.jpg)
That one should go instead of Covid? :lol:
I'd rather vote for Covid :sleep:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 02:34:32 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 02:34:32 PM
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Tonitrus on January 29, 2021, 02:41:58 PM
Post by: Tonitrus on January 29, 2021, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 02:27:26 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
#5 Looks like an Incel.
Incel is a state of mind.
Phrenology lives!
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:07:42 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
I was going to say "the black guy", but this being Spain I figured his skin tone wasn't outside the range of what you might expect... :unsure:
Nope, it is outside the normal range, although that's getting into slightly dodgy territory. In that guy's case there's no argument, as he's actually half African (his mother is from Equatorial Guinea, a former Spanish colony).
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Tonitrus on January 29, 2021, 02:50:23 PM
Post by: Tonitrus on January 29, 2021, 02:50:23 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
I have a rule that my trust in a politician scales lower in proportion to how close their collar line above the tie is to the horizontal.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
So I image-searched the pic and read up on the guy.
[spoiler]Is he a riot just because he's a black guy in a far-right nationalist party, or is there more to it than that?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:02:51 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:58:17 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
So I image-searched the pic and read up on the guy.
[spoiler]Is he a riot just because he's a black guy in a far-right nationalist party, or is there more to it than that?[/spoiler]
The guy himself is rather vanilla, it is just that indeed [spoiler]he's the (joint) first ever Spaniard of African descent to be elected to national office (he's a Spanish MP), and he did so while standing for a far right anti-immigration party. He's their "we're not racist!" card[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Brain on January 29, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
Post by: The Brain on January 29, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
Voted red.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 03:16:47 PM
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:02:51 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 02:58:17 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 02:00:23 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So I always try to pick out the non-crazy right winger, but when you throw nationalist politics it makes it more difficult.
I'm gonna go with 3rd from the bottom.
The sharp-dressed black dude? Now that one's a riot :lol:
So I image-searched the pic and read up on the guy.
[spoiler]Is he a riot just because he's a black guy in a far-right nationalist party, or is there more to it than that?[/spoiler]
The guy himself is rather vanilla
heh
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
I am voting for the party I usually support...thus kind of breaking the rules of these polls but Ced has made me too well informed about Catalan Regional politics :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2021, 03:25:24 PM
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2021, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
I am voting for the party I usually support...thus kind of breaking the rules of these polls but Ced has made me too well informed about Catalan Regional politics :P
Kind of?
You know the rules - you must vote for the hottest pic, and just hope he or she is not a Nazi. :contract:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:27:38 PM
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:27:38 PM
There was a time the party I support and the hottest politician was the same person :weep:
I miss Inés :(
I miss Inés :(
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:34:53 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 03:27:38 PM
There was a time the party I support and the hottest politician was the same person :weep:
I miss Inés :(
Well, she was kicked upstairs and now she's the head of the party (or at least what remains of it) nationally.
Now there were some nasty party shenanigans involved in choosing the Catalan candidate. The Ciudadanos primary voters, in all their wisdom, chose this:
(https://img2.rtve.es/v/4652258?w=1600&preview=1530543009539.jpg)
However she was, to be frank, not a very good parlamentarian and given they were cratering in the polls she was "invited" to resign and the party establishment kinda forced the current candidate. It was kinda ugly and that girl ultimately left the party and is now #2 in Incel guy's list.
Incel guy is probably the most Barrister-y candidate, but I played dirty and chose a picture without a tie in order to confound him :sleep:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 02:34:32 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on January 29, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
#5 Looks like an Incel.
And he got a vote.
Yes, me. I vote for the worse candidate.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:26:32 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:26:32 PM
Voted for scarf lady.
Gave some thought to back lit smiling blonde lady but something about her gave me the creeps.
Gave some thought to back lit smiling blonde lady but something about her gave me the creeps.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:40:09 PM
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:26:32 PM
Gave some thought to back lit smiling blonde lady but something about her gave me the creeps.
Good instinct.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:42:50 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:42:50 PM
God I love it when I'm right.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 05:45:21 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 05:45:21 PM
Smiling lady is far more palatable than scarf lady.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:46:06 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 05:46:06 PM
Fuck
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: PDH on January 29, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
Post by: PDH on January 29, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
Teeth woman looks remarkably similar to the ex-wife of a friend.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PM
Post by: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PM
How come nobody is admitting voting for the redhead? :hmm:
I did. Cel please tell me I didn't waste my vote. :P
I did. Cel please tell me I didn't waste my vote. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 05:54:09 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 05:54:09 PM
Voted smiling lady (non scarf).
Incel guy gives off a right wing dude living in his parents basement kind of vibe.
Incel guy gives off a right wing dude living in his parents basement kind of vibe.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PM
How come nobody is admitting voting for the redhead? :hmm:
I did. Cel please tell me I didn't waste my vote. :P
You're fine, she's the [spoiler]En Comú - Podemos candidate[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:54:59 PM
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:54:59 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PM
How come nobody is admitting voting for the redhead? :hmm:
I did. Cel please tell me I didn't waste my vote. :P
I did so too, in the name of tradition. I'll admit I was tempted to vote for COVID on this one. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 05:57:05 PM
Post by: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 05:57:05 PM
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
Teeth woman looks remarkably similar to the ex-wife of a friend.
Women certainly look better with teeth, but if that's all you go on you will have a lot of mistaken identity. Many, many women have teeth.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Post by: Iormlund on January 29, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
You're fine, she's the [spoiler]En Comú - Podemos candidate[/spoiler]
Well then. Well worth climbing the mountain with Nemas and his so.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 06:08:52 PM
Post by: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 06:08:52 PM
That party does have a thing for redheads, this is her predecessor:
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/201810/1200_1540918376_ELISENDA_ALAMANY_foto_Adria_Costa_201850630102018-_ACR5916.jpg)
Current redhead isn't a natural, though.
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/201810/1200_1540918376_ELISENDA_ALAMANY_foto_Adria_Costa_201850630102018-_ACR5916.jpg)
Current redhead isn't a natural, though.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 06:30:41 PM
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 06:30:41 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 06:08:52 PM
That party does have a thing for redheads, this is her predecessor:
(https://dades.grupnaciodigital.cat/redaccio/arxius/imatges/201810/1200_1540918376_ELISENDA_ALAMANY_foto_Adria_Costa_201850630102018-_ACR5916.jpg)
Now she would have gotten my vote.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 06:32:23 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 06:32:23 PM
Psycho eyes
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 07:57:39 PM
Post by: Valmy on January 29, 2021, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:34:53 PM
Incel guy is probably the most Barrister-y candidate, but I played dirty and chose a picture without a tie in order to confound him :sleep:
Ah yes. THAT party.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: viper37 on January 29, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Post by: viper37 on January 29, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:51:30 PM
So, today the Catalan Supreme Court of Justice has finally struck down the decree from the Catalan government cancelling the election planned for Valentine's Day, so we're voting in two weeks! :w00t:
Polls are all over the place, some have separatists losing their majority, while others have them increasing it and even getting past the 50% treshold for the first time. With the pandemic, it's hard to predict turnout, although we're having record levels of mail vote.
Voter #4, blond lady. Hopefully, she's not far left. The older lady with a shamanistic baton ;) , the one you know personally, does look far left.
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_449_220/uploads/2019/11/20/5fa53700ac4bf.jpeg)
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: viper37 on January 29, 2021, 08:38:10 PM
Post by: viper37 on January 29, 2021, 08:38:10 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PMBecause on Languish, we do not judge people solely by their looks. :glare: :ph34r:
How come nobody is admitting voting for the redhead? :hmm:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 08:43:41 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2021, 08:43:41 PM
I didn't vote for her because I thought the other chicks were cuter.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 08:51:38 PM
Post by: Barrister on January 29, 2021, 08:51:38 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 03:34:53 PM
Incel guy is probably the most Barrister-y candidate, but I played dirty and chose a picture without a tie in order to confound him :sleep:
:ultra:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on January 29, 2021, 08:52:09 PM
Post by: Sheilbh on January 29, 2021, 08:52:09 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 03:01:46 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 03:01:46 AM
Incidentally, I should point out that scarf lady is very tall and when she puts on heels she tends to tower over most other candidates, men or women.
(https://cdn01.diarimes.com/uploads/imagenes/10col/2019/04/25/_foto3489552_d1f614af.jpg?31d99aa4ef8f8e36b0b3da0a23ed3aa1)
(this is from the debate among Barcelona candidates for the 2019 Spanish general election, a good way as any to sneak in an Inés pic :blush:)
(https://cdn01.diarimes.com/uploads/imagenes/10col/2019/04/25/_foto3489552_d1f614af.jpg?31d99aa4ef8f8e36b0b3da0a23ed3aa1)
(this is from the debate among Barcelona candidates for the 2019 Spanish general election, a good way as any to sneak in an Inés pic :blush:)
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2021, 03:04:12 AM
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2021, 03:04:12 AM
The bouncer must be from the Reconquista party.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sophie Scholl on January 30, 2021, 04:16:14 AM
Post by: Sophie Scholl on January 30, 2021, 04:16:14 AM
Went with the "Made for TV" movie version of Russell Crowe with glasses, aka 4th from the bottom.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 04:49:11 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 04:49:11 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 29, 2021, 08:32:27 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 29, 2021, 01:51:30 PM
So, today the Catalan Supreme Court of Justice has finally struck down the decree from the Catalan government cancelling the election planned for Valentine's Day, so we're voting in two weeks! :w00t:
Polls are all over the place, some have separatists losing their majority, while others have them increasing it and even getting past the 50% treshold for the first time. With the pandemic, it's hard to predict turnout, although we're having record levels of mail vote.
Voter #4, blond lady. Hopefully, she's not far left. The older lady with a shamanistic baton ;) , the one you know personally, does look far left.
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_449_220/uploads/2019/11/20/5fa53700ac4bf.jpeg)
That baton is given to Spanish mayors as symbol of their authority, nothing shamanistic in it :P
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on January 30, 2021, 04:16:14 AM
Went with the "Made for TV" movie version of Russell Crowe with glasses, aka 4th from the bottom.
Can't say I see the resemblance :hmm:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2021, 05:40:36 AM
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2021, 05:40:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 03:01:46 AM
Incidentally, I should point out that scarf lady is very tall and when she puts on heels she tends to tower over most other candidates, men or women.
(https://cdn01.diarimes.com/uploads/imagenes/10col/2019/04/25/_foto3489552_d1f614af.jpg?31d99aa4ef8f8e36b0b3da0a23ed3aa1)
So maybe Chinless isn't the only incel... :ph34r:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: saskganesh on January 30, 2021, 07:23:10 AM
Post by: saskganesh on January 30, 2021, 07:23:10 AM
I voted for the Berber.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on January 31, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
Post by: celedhring on January 31, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
Let's proceed with the unveiling then:
1) Jessica Albiach (En Comú Podem). Left-Wing, non-nationalist, pro-federalist. They aim to build a left-wing trans-sectarian coalition government (they would be a minor partner in it). They will fail.
2) Laura Borràs (JxCAT). Right wing, nationalist-populist. Puigdemont's party, which has become even more trumpy after they expelled the moderates a few months ago. Their stated platform is re-declaring independence if they win the election and there's a separatist majority, and "mobilizing the people to defend the Republic". Nobody believes them besides the most gullible/deranged of their voters, but they are in a close race.
3) Carlos Carrizosa (C's). Liberal, anti-nationalist. They won the election in 2017 (without being able to form a majority), but polls are predicting they'll lose 2/3 of their vote, completing a disastrous cycle for the party, both nationally and regionally.
4) Àngels Chacón (PDeCAT). Right wing, nationalist. The moderate splinter off JxCAT (although technically it's the opposite). They dream of a return to 1990s-2000s nationalist politics. Most polls have them failing to win any MP, but they are not out of the race.
5) Alejandro Fernández (PP). Right wing, unionist. These are the main Spanish conservative party. Dude's actually the best Catalan MP they have had in ages but he indeed looks like an incel and it's a bit too little too late after years of terrible candidates.
6) Salvador Illa (PSC). Socdem, unionist. Former Minister of Health in the Spanish government. Some polls give him a chance to win the election (although I can't see a scenario where he could build a coalition).
7) Ignacio Garriga (Vox). Far right, Spanish nationalist. The "we're not racist!" token guy which they run in every election they can. Polls give them a pretty presentable result, with 5-6 seats (tied with PP)
8) Dolors Sabater (CUP). Far-left nationalist. They used to be the most radical separatist party, but Sabater is more moderate than past candidates (which has raised some controversy within the party). So they are not in favor of re-declaring independence until there's a larger internal majority that makes it more likely to be implemented. Her non-nationalist politics are also more moderate (they are usually the COLLECTIVIZE EVERYTHING! party).
9) SARS-CoV-2. He's running a very successful campaign. Infectious slogans and he kills it in packed venues.
10) Pere Aragonès (ERC). Left-wing, nationalist. He's the current acting president. Under him the party has tried to go moderate, attempting to become the Catalan SNP. Progressive politics, civic nationalism, yadda dada. They were leading the polls decisively a few months ago, but they have been badly burnt by the Covid crisis (the government is a coalition with JxCAT, but ERC runs the Health, Welfare, and Employment Departments), and they have been steadily losing ground. Doesn't help that Aragonès has the charisma of a paperweight.
1) Jessica Albiach (En Comú Podem). Left-Wing, non-nationalist, pro-federalist. They aim to build a left-wing trans-sectarian coalition government (they would be a minor partner in it). They will fail.
2) Laura Borràs (JxCAT). Right wing, nationalist-populist. Puigdemont's party, which has become even more trumpy after they expelled the moderates a few months ago. Their stated platform is re-declaring independence if they win the election and there's a separatist majority, and "mobilizing the people to defend the Republic". Nobody believes them besides the most gullible/deranged of their voters, but they are in a close race.
3) Carlos Carrizosa (C's). Liberal, anti-nationalist. They won the election in 2017 (without being able to form a majority), but polls are predicting they'll lose 2/3 of their vote, completing a disastrous cycle for the party, both nationally and regionally.
4) Àngels Chacón (PDeCAT). Right wing, nationalist. The moderate splinter off JxCAT (although technically it's the opposite). They dream of a return to 1990s-2000s nationalist politics. Most polls have them failing to win any MP, but they are not out of the race.
5) Alejandro Fernández (PP). Right wing, unionist. These are the main Spanish conservative party. Dude's actually the best Catalan MP they have had in ages but he indeed looks like an incel and it's a bit too little too late after years of terrible candidates.
6) Salvador Illa (PSC). Socdem, unionist. Former Minister of Health in the Spanish government. Some polls give him a chance to win the election (although I can't see a scenario where he could build a coalition).
7) Ignacio Garriga (Vox). Far right, Spanish nationalist. The "we're not racist!" token guy which they run in every election they can. Polls give them a pretty presentable result, with 5-6 seats (tied with PP)
8) Dolors Sabater (CUP). Far-left nationalist. They used to be the most radical separatist party, but Sabater is more moderate than past candidates (which has raised some controversy within the party). So they are not in favor of re-declaring independence until there's a larger internal majority that makes it more likely to be implemented. Her non-nationalist politics are also more moderate (they are usually the COLLECTIVIZE EVERYTHING! party).
9) SARS-CoV-2. He's running a very successful campaign. Infectious slogans and he kills it in packed venues.
10) Pere Aragonès (ERC). Left-wing, nationalist. He's the current acting president. Under him the party has tried to go moderate, attempting to become the Catalan SNP. Progressive politics, civic nationalism, yadda dada. They were leading the polls decisively a few months ago, but they have been badly burnt by the Covid crisis (the government is a coalition with JxCAT, but ERC runs the Health, Welfare, and Employment Departments), and they have been steadily losing ground. Doesn't help that Aragonès has the charisma of a paperweight.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on January 31, 2021, 03:34:43 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on January 31, 2021, 03:34:43 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 31, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
6) Salvador Illa (PSC). Socdem, unionist. Former Minister of Health in the Spanish government. Some polls give him a chance to win the election (although I can't see a scenario where he could build a coalition).
Not having enough in common with the others to form a coalition seems to be one of the best endorsements.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2021, 08:14:04 PM
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2021, 08:14:04 PM
QuoteAh, I knew I picked the right one! Business suit, conference room in the background, I knew it!! :showoff: :yeah: :punk:
4) Àngels Chacón (PDeCAT). Right wing, nationalist. The moderate splinter off JxCAT (although technically it's the opposite). They dream of a return to 1990s-2000s nationalist politics.
QuoteDamn! :(
Most polls have them failing to win any MP, but they are not out of the race.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2021, 08:15:22 PM
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2021, 08:15:22 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 30, 2021, 04:49:11 AMok, maybe :P
That baton is given to Spanish mayors as symbol of their authority, nothing shamanistic in it :P
But I was right with her being far left! :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 03, 2021, 05:47:18 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 03, 2021, 05:47:18 AM
So, news of the day is that JxCAT have backtracked on their "if we win, we'll make an UDI" promise and amended to "if we win, we'll make an UDI whenever we believe it's feasible to do so" (so, not anytime soon). So that means no party with a realistic chance of winning will attempt to immediately destroy the country if they win. It's a low bar, but these are the times we live in.
In other news, 10% of people selected to man the polling stations on election day have asked to be released of that duty, mostly because of pandemic fears.
In other news, 10% of people selected to man the polling stations on election day have asked to be released of that duty, mostly because of pandemic fears.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 01:06:27 PM
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 03, 2021, 05:47:18 AM
So, news of the day is that JxCAT have backtracked on their "if we win, we'll make an UDI" promise and amended to "if we win, we'll make an UDI whenever we believe it's feasible to do so" (so, not anytime soon). So that means no party with a realistic chance of winning will attempt to immediately destroy the country if they win. It's a low bar, but these are the times we live in.
In other news, 10% of people selected to man the polling stations on election day have asked to be released of that duty, mostly because of pandemic fears.
Somebody did some research of how the PQ in Canada has dealt with the separatist question.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 04, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Post by: celedhring on February 04, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Big news of today - even though they won't affect the winner of this election - was that a former treasurer of PP, currently in jail for corruption, directly implicated former Spanish president Mariano Rajoy on the party's shady dealings. Rajoy was already ousted as PM after a court found that the party "had benefited" from corruption, but he had not been indicted himself.
This comes at a moment where some polls have Vox gaining ground on PP, and are giving them a chance of finishing above them in the Catalan election. This would be the first time Vox placed over PP in an election, and it would be... not nice. As much as I loathe PP they are like a thousand times preferable to the far right cunts from Vox. Ok, maybe just a hundred times.
This comes at a moment where some polls have Vox gaining ground on PP, and are giving them a chance of finishing above them in the Catalan election. This would be the first time Vox placed over PP in an election, and it would be... not nice. As much as I loathe PP they are like a thousand times preferable to the far right cunts from Vox. Ok, maybe just a hundred times.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 04, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
Post by: The Larch on February 04, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 04, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Big news of today - even though they won't affect the winner of this election - was that a former treasurer of PP, currently in jail for corruption, directly implicated former Spanish president Mariano Rajoy on the party's shady dealings. Rajoy was already ousted as PM after a court found that the party "had benefited" from corruption, but he had not been indicted himself.
This comes at a moment where some polls have Vox gaining ground on PP, and are giving them a chance of finishing above them in the Catalan election. This would be the first time Vox placed over PP in an election, and it would be... not nice. As much as I loathe PP they are like a thousand times preferable to the far right cunts from Vox. Ok, maybe just a hundred times.
Well, it's not as if PP has ever been severely punished at the voting booths for its unabashed corruption, so...
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 02:26:51 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 02:26:51 AM
That's a bit unfair. They lost half their seats in the April 2019 election, their worst showing since the 1980s. I'd call that "severe punishment".
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:02:46 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:02:46 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 02:26:51 AM
That's a bit unfair. They lost half their seats in the April 2019 election, their worst showing since the 1980s. I'd call that "severe punishment".
But that was not because of their corruption, it was because of the rise of Ciudadanos and the arrival of Vox.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 07:10:18 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 07:10:18 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:02:46 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 02:26:51 AM
That's a bit unfair. They lost half their seats in the April 2019 election, their worst showing since the 1980s. I'd call that "severe punishment".
But that was not because of their corruption, it was because of the rise of Ciudadanos and the arrival of Vox.
I'd say that their rise was helped by PP's corruption.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:14:29 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:14:29 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 07:10:18 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 05, 2021, 07:02:46 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 05, 2021, 02:26:51 AM
That's a bit unfair. They lost half their seats in the April 2019 election, their worst showing since the 1980s. I'd call that "severe punishment".
But that was not because of their corruption, it was because of the rise of Ciudadanos and the arrival of Vox.
I'd say that their rise was helped by PP's corruption.
I don't think that was much of a factor myself. PP plumetted because it started to have serious competition for votes on the right wing, which it had monopolized until then.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2021, 09:45:18 AM
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2021, 09:45:18 AM
Yeah, I'd say the apparittion of Cs (and Podemos) after the debt crisis shifted moderate voters away from PP (and PSOE). And then came Catalonia and the subsequent rise of Vox completing the pincer maneuver from the right.
So mostly the economy and nationalism, IMHO.
So mostly the economy and nationalism, IMHO.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2021, 08:37:55 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2021, 08:37:55 AM
Final tally of people that have requested to be excused from manning poll stations is 25% of all selected, the vast majority arguing health risks because of Covid. Even if all those didn't show up (which would earn them a nontrivial fine), there's enough people to move forward (the election board selected a boatload of understudies in advance of this happening, enough to cover 66% of people dropping out). There might be some delays on election day while understudies are moved around, which will in turn delay the results - although unlike some "other" (:P) countries we should know who won the election before going to bed (coalitions are another matter altogheter...).
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 07, 2021, 04:31:55 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 07, 2021, 04:31:55 AM
Incidentally, this is the very first election I see party ads on Facebook. I've not followed all the controversies regarding Facebook and political messaging, but is that new? In Spain at least?
Also, we had a kerffufle between police and antifas yesterday when they tried to forcefully shut down a Vox rally. Not a pretty sight. As much as I hate those far right cunts, they are free to hold their rallies during an election.
Also, we had a kerffufle between police and antifas yesterday when they tried to forcefully shut down a Vox rally. Not a pretty sight. As much as I hate those far right cunts, they are free to hold their rallies during an election.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 03:57:04 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 03:57:04 AM
So, this is happening today. Polling stations have opened a bit later to sort out people not showing up due to Covid fears. This means results could be slightly delayed, but they will still be released tonight.
The average of polls show things not changing much Separatists should be getting a slight majority - I get the feeling polls might be getting turnout wrong, though, and if it's severely depressed it should favor the independence camp. The SocDems will replace Cs as the largest unionist party - with a decent chance of winning the election but not being able to form a majority. Vox should get a good result as they will accrue a lot of the "FUCK YOU" anti-independence vote.
Anyway, the most salient matter - unless there's an upset - will be whether ERC (more moderate) or JxCAT (more radical) get to lead the government. ERC were leading the polls decisively, but they have ran a terrible campaign and have a charisma black hole as a candidate, so JxCAT have been catching up. It won't be a stable government in any case though, those parties despise each other. But they also agreed to sign a manifesto declaring they won't attempt to form a government with unionist parties so that's the meal we'll have to eat.
The average of polls show things not changing much Separatists should be getting a slight majority - I get the feeling polls might be getting turnout wrong, though, and if it's severely depressed it should favor the independence camp. The SocDems will replace Cs as the largest unionist party - with a decent chance of winning the election but not being able to form a majority. Vox should get a good result as they will accrue a lot of the "FUCK YOU" anti-independence vote.
Anyway, the most salient matter - unless there's an upset - will be whether ERC (more moderate) or JxCAT (more radical) get to lead the government. ERC were leading the polls decisively, but they have ran a terrible campaign and have a charisma black hole as a candidate, so JxCAT have been catching up. It won't be a stable government in any case though, those parties despise each other. But they also agreed to sign a manifesto declaring they won't attempt to form a government with unionist parties so that's the meal we'll have to eat.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 04:32:15 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 04:32:15 AM
Anyway, a last look at our candidates in the traditional election day group photo - social distance* edition. May the prettiest win.
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_948_465/files/fp/uploads/2021/02/14/60286a9be282e.r_d.3587-2485-1411.jpeg)
*Not sure that's 1.5m though
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_948_465/files/fp/uploads/2021/02/14/60286a9be282e.r_d.3587-2485-1411.jpeg)
*Not sure that's 1.5m though
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
I have enjoyed Spanish Twitter on the latest "polls" that aren't polls about the points different colours have achieved because you can't report the poll. It's always one of my favourite things in Spanish elections :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:33:47 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:33:47 AM
Yeah, it's a silly law. I mean, it probably made sense in the 1980s where only few (wealthy) outlets could make polls, and it was believed they could be used to unduly influence voters, but everybody does polls now.
Turnout at lunch time is down significantly, but more in unionist cities than pro-independence ones. This is kinda what I feared so unless the trends change separatists might get a stronger majority.
Anyway, pic of the day will be the "zombie hour" (19-20h) which has been alloted for those infected with Covid/quarantined. All polling stations personnel has been provided with PPE.
Turnout at lunch time is down significantly, but more in unionist cities than pro-independence ones. This is kinda what I feared so unless the trends change separatists might get a stronger majority.
Anyway, pic of the day will be the "zombie hour" (19-20h) which has been alloted for those infected with Covid/quarantined. All polling stations personnel has been provided with PPE.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:41:05 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:41:05 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
I have enjoyed Spanish Twitter on the latest "polls" that aren't polls about the points different colours have achieved because you can't report the poll. It's always one of my favourite things in Spanish elections :lol:
It's even funnier when instead of colours they use fruits and vegetables. :P
"Tomatoes are up to 26%, while cucumbers fall to 12%"
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:43:23 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:41:05 AMIt's even funnier when instead of colours they use fruits and vegetables. :PYeah. To be honest I've only seen colours this time round and only so many fruits. I wondered if that's because there are so many choice in the election while in national elections it's a bit easier.
"Tomatoes are up to 26%, while cucumbers fall to 12%"
Also on my Twitter Podemos is typically the aubergine emoji which is a choice :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:47:29 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:47:29 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 14, 2021, 09:43:23 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:41:05 AMIt's even funnier when instead of colours they use fruits and vegetables. :PYeah. To be honest I've only seen colours this time round and only so many fruits. I wondered if that's because there are so many choice in the election while in national elections it's a bit easier.
"Tomatoes are up to 26%, while cucumbers fall to 12%"
Also on my Twitter Podemos is typically the aubergine emoji which is a choice :lol:
Well, they're the purple party, after all. It's either that or beets. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:48:55 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:48:55 AM
There are so many parties running in this one that some of those twitter accounts have really struggled to find a veggie for everyone, but broccoli for Vox is surely inspired, I have the same appetite for both veggie and party. :yuk:
Pineapple for CUP I don't really get.
Pineapple for CUP I don't really get.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:50:05 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:50:05 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:48:55 AMPineapple for CUP I don't really get.
Association with yellow? :unsure:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:53:02 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:53:02 AM
Suppose so... the yellow party has always been ERC for me.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:56:18 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:56:18 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:53:02 AM
Suppose so... the yellow party has always been ERC for me.
What are they using for ERC nowadays, then?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 09:57:20 AM
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 09:57:20 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:47:29 AM
Well, they're the purple party, after all. It's either that or beets. :P
Grapes?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:57:47 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:56:18 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 09:53:02 AM
Suppose so... the yellow party has always been ERC for me.
What are they using for ERC nowadays, then?
Lemons.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:58:40 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 09:57:20 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 09:47:29 AM
Well, they're the purple party, after all. It's either that or beets. :P
Grapes?
Could be, but for some reason the only fruit they commonly use is oranges for Ciudadanos.
Now that I think of it, PP always uses blue, which is awfully difficult to associate to a fruit or veggie. :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Yeah, I've always felt bad for PP, which are usually "water" instead of something like blueberries.
Nah, I lie, no possible way I'd feel bad for PP. :P
Nah, I lie, no possible way I'd feel bad for PP. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 10:03:04 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 10:03:04 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 10:01:05 AMYeah, I've always felt bad for PP, which are usually "water" instead of something like blueberries.
They can get away with it using fish, although it breaks a bit the theme.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 01:51:17 PM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 01:51:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/72lHqBM.jpg)
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Do you guys have absentee ballots?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Yes. They have risen a lot, but "just" to 5% of the census (from something like 1-1.5). We don't have such a tradition of mail vote compared to i.e. the US.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 02:15:00 PM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 02:15:00 PM
Exit polls have indeed separatists expanding their majority (they differ on the size of it) but both have ERC (the less crazy ones) winning within that camp. The Socdems would win the election in % of votes but might finish second in seats, due to how they are adjudicated.
Will see how the count goes.
Will see how the count goes.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM
Post by: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM
97% reporting. Not much will change unless the remaining vote and the overseas vote breaks heavily to one party or the other, which won't be the case when there's like 1000000000000 parties running.
Socdems narrowly win the election (33 seats), but pro-independence parties gain a 2 seats overall. However, the current ruling coalition loses one (65 out of 135) and will have to reach out to CUP, who are clinically insane. Looks like ERC, which are the more moderate of the big independence parties will get to lead the government, but their margin is rather slim, and it will probably be a fractious and unstable government. When you add up all the separatist microparties (christ, there's loads of those) they get to 51% of the vote, but falls to a little over 48% if you remove the "yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party. Vox gets a great result (11 seats), the other conservative unionist parties crashed and burned.
Turnout has been 53%, lowest ever.
Socdems narrowly win the election (33 seats), but pro-independence parties gain a 2 seats overall. However, the current ruling coalition loses one (65 out of 135) and will have to reach out to CUP, who are clinically insane. Looks like ERC, which are the more moderate of the big independence parties will get to lead the government, but their margin is rather slim, and it will probably be a fractious and unstable government. When you add up all the separatist microparties (christ, there's loads of those) they get to 51% of the vote, but falls to a little over 48% if you remove the "yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party. Vox gets a great result (11 seats), the other conservative unionist parties crashed and burned.
Turnout has been 53%, lowest ever.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PM
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:03:42 PM
Post by: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:03:42 PM
Looks like a good result for your party Ced.
The Cs suck now :weep:
The Cs suck now :weep:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 10:18:50 PM
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 10:18:50 PM
The Cs?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:19:55 PM
Post by: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 10:18:50 PM
The Cs?
They are a liberal political party...what's left of them.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:53:17 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:53:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:19:55 PMQuote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 10:18:50 PM
The Cs?
They are a liberal political party...what's left of them.
They grew through a weird coalition of anti-nationalist progressives (they were born as a splinter of the Catalan SocDems), liberals, and Spanish nationalists. Eventually they had to decide what exactly they wanted to be, which would inevitably alienate some of these groups. Problem is that they went so shoddily about it that they ultimately managed to alienate them all.
Since Inés took over the she's running it as a traditional European liberal party, but seems it's too late, plus I'm not sure that brand has that many buyers in this day and age.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
And they got no MPs, first party in number of votes not to get any. Were these results the death throes of Pujolism? It's quite amazing how Puigdemont has completely hijacked and turned the old Convergencia into a totally different thing.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:05:07 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:05:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:03:42 PM
Looks like a good result for your party Ced.
The Cs suck now :weep:
Newsflash, they've always sucked, and are in a death spiral since 2019, all thanks to Albert Rivera and his crazy machinations. It remains to be seen if they're able to stabilize the bloodlet and accept a much more reduced role or if they'll inevitably become the new UPyD and eventually dissappear in 1-2 election cycles.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:07:21 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:07:21 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
And they got no MPs, first party in number of votes not to get any. Were these results the death throes of Pujolism? It's quite amazing how Puigdemont has completely hijacked and turned the old Convergencia into a totally different thing.
Yeah, it's possibly the end - which is a bad thing since it removes a "landing platform" for those more moderate nationalist types (my dad voted for them, for example). Thing is, if the two moderate splinters from Convergència (PDeCAT and PNC) had agreed to a coalition, you add up their votes and they get 4 MPs.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 15, 2021, 05:11:31 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 15, 2021, 05:11:31 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:05:07 AMYeah I can't stand Cs :blush:
Newsflash, they've always sucked, and are in a death spiral since 2019, all thanks to Albert Rivera and his crazy machinations. It remains to be seen if they're able to stabilize the bloodlet and accept a much more reduced role or if they'll inevitably become the new UPyD and eventually dissappear in 1-2 election cycles.
They seem the perfect example that in much of Europe if you vote liberal they will focus on winning the right and normally coming to some sort of accommodation with/fight for the votes of the populist right/far-right. So we should be under no illusions about liberals <_<
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:11:53 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:11:53 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:07:21 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
And they got no MPs, first party in number of votes not to get any. Were these results the death throes of Pujolism? It's quite amazing how Puigdemont has completely hijacked and turned the old Convergencia into a totally different thing.
Yeah, it's possibly the end - which is a bad thing since it removes a "landing platform" for those more moderate nationalist types (my dad voted for them, for example). Thing is, if the two moderate splinters from Convergència (PDeCAT and PNC) had agreed to a coalition, you add up their votes and they get 4 MPs.
I've had to look who are these PNC types (as I said, it's difficult to keep track of all the former Convergencia splinters), and I see that they barely got 5k votes, would they have tipped the balance that much?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:20:26 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:20:26 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:53:17 AMQuote from: Valmy on February 14, 2021, 10:19:55 PMQuote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 10:18:50 PM
The Cs?
They are a liberal political party...what's left of them.
They grew through a weird coalition of anti-nationalist progressives (they were born as a splinter of the Catalan SocDems), liberals, and Spanish nationalists. Eventually they had to decide what exactly they wanted to be, which would inevitably alienate some of these groups. Problem is that they went so shoddily about it that they ultimately managed to alienate them all.
Since Inés took over the she's running it as a traditional European liberal party, but seems it's too late, plus I'm not sure that brand has that many buyers in this day and age.
She's running it as a traditional liberal party because their Spanish nationalist branch (ie, the "Girauta" branch) has defected to Vox (which tells you that their commitment to Cs was tenuous at best since the beginning) and their progressive branch is going back to the Socialists, so liberals are basically the ones left after the storm has passed.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:39:14 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:39:14 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:11:53 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:07:21 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AMQuote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 02:13:53 AMQuote from: The Larch on February 14, 2021, 06:19:43 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 14, 2021, 05:13:10 PM"yeah we want independence but we'll be happy with just more money" party.
Which one is that, PDeCat? It's hard to keep track of all the splinters of the old Convergencia. :P
Yeah, aka PDeCA$H.
And they got no MPs, first party in number of votes not to get any. Were these results the death throes of Pujolism? It's quite amazing how Puigdemont has completely hijacked and turned the old Convergencia into a totally different thing.
Yeah, it's possibly the end - which is a bad thing since it removes a "landing platform" for those more moderate nationalist types (my dad voted for them, for example). Thing is, if the two moderate splinters from Convergència (PDeCAT and PNC) had agreed to a coalition, you add up their votes and they get 4 MPs.
I've had to look who are these PNC types (as I said, it's difficult to keep track of all the former Convergencia splinters), and I see that they barely got 5k votes, would they have tipped the balance that much?
Yeah, PDeCAT only needed 1000 more votes to get over the 3% cutoff.
Yes, the figure is fantastically ironic.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:41:02 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:41:02 AM
:pinch: :lmfao:
Oh, the famous 3%... :lol:
Oh, the famous 3%... :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:43:16 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 05:43:16 AM
For languishites, that particular party's predecessor (PDeCAT was just a rebrand since the old CDC was so closely associated with corruption) had an old and long-running corruption scandal where they took 3% of public contracts for themselves.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:56:36 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:56:36 AM
By the way, what happened with Unió after they split with Convergencia? Are they still around or did they dissappear/merge with one of these splinters?
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 06:10:52 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 06:10:52 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 15, 2021, 05:56:36 AM
By the way, what happened with Unió after they split with Convergencia? Are they still around or did they dissappear/merge with one of these splinters?
Unió formally dissolved some years ago but their spirit lives on! There are, of course, several splinters. :lol:
- Demócrates de Catalunya: populist right separatist splinter. They were part of ERC's coalition in 2017 (because they had feuded with PDeCAT and thus didn't join the JxCAT coalition), but ran with JxCAT in 2021 (since PDeCAT had been kicked out, and they are a much better ideological fit). They score very highly on the craziness scale, they are essentially the right-wing version of CUP. They got one seat this election as part of JxCAT.
- Units per Avançar: the moderate non-separatist splinter. They are the closest to the original party. They ran in coalition with PSC in 2017 and 2021, and got 1 seat each time.
Some other members of Unió have popped up in the large array of nationalist, non-separatist microparties that have failed to capture any traction: Lliures, Portes Obertes, Lliga Democràtica, etc...
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 06:16:10 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 06:16:10 AM
And yes, the Catalan political sphere is very close to being a Life of Brian running gag.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
The new poster child for not wanting unrestricted proportional representation
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 01:47:57 AM
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 01:47:57 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 15, 2021, 06:16:10 AMWell, no one forced you to have elections during covid. AFAIK, no one forced you to have election, point. But no, you guys had to petition the court to get your election. Deal with the result, now, and enjoy the Life Brain! :yucky:
And yes, the Catalan political sphere is very close to being a Life of Brian running gag.
:D
So many parties... Being used to the alternance of two nearly identical parties (in governance policies) for most of my life, I feel... overwhelmed... :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 16, 2021, 08:16:44 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 16, 2021, 08:16:44 AM
Cel, should we talk here about the PP - Génova HQ affaire, or maybe we can create a specific thread for Spanish politics? :lol:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 16, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 16, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Absolutely :lol: I always use this thread: http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,15193.1470.html
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: The Larch on February 16, 2021, 11:21:51 AM
Post by: The Larch on February 16, 2021, 11:21:51 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 16, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Absolutely :lol: I always use this thread: http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,15193.1470.html
That'll do nicely indeed! :cheers:
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 18, 2021, 06:02:22 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 18, 2021, 06:02:22 AM
The catalan hip-hopper getting jailed got some coverage over here. Plus a comparison to Navalny by a slightly nutty contact on FB. :P
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 18, 2021, 07:35:31 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 18, 2021, 07:35:31 AM
Hasel is a nasty piece of work (he's also facing jail time for battery and witness intimidation) but the hate crimes conviction is frankly ridiculous. The government says they will reform the penal code for this but we'll see, I'm still waiting for them to reform/strike down the gag law.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
Cel mentiond Kiko Llaneras for data visualisations of covid, but I see he's also got some very interesting stuff on elections :w00t:
Like this is fascinating:
https://elpais.com/politica/2021/02/19/actualidad/1613741557_146092.html
Like this is fascinating:
https://elpais.com/politica/2021/02/19/actualidad/1613741557_146092.html
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 09:11:51 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
Cel mentiond Kiko Llaneras for data visualisations of covid, but I see he's also got some very interesting stuff on elections :w00t:
Like this is fascinating:
https://elpais.com/politica/2021/02/19/actualidad/1613741557_146092.html
Llaneras' content is always great. He actually started as Spain's Nate Silver, analyzing election polling and then he moved to other areas.
And yeah, pro-independence vote has always been tied to both income and origin (and income and origin have also been closely linked themselves). So middle-class and up Catalan-speaking dudes (I'm the weird exception) vote separatist, Spanish-speaking working class votes unionist.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2021, 09:43:46 AM
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2021, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 18, 2021, 07:35:31 AM
Hasel is a nasty piece of work (he's also facing jail time for battery and witness intimidation) but the hate crimes conviction is frankly ridiculous. The government says they will reform the penal code for this but we'll see, I'm still waiting for them to reform/strike down the gag law.
He also got convicted for being an RAF, ETA and Al-Qaeda (?!) apologist, among others. Charming fellow.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 09:54:36 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 09:54:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 09:11:51 AMInteresting.
And yeah, pro-independence vote has always been tied to both rent and origin (and rent and origin have also been closely linked themselves). So middle-class and up Catalan-speaking dudes (I'm the weird exception) vote separatist, Spanish-speaking working class votes unionist.
The lack of language divide is probably helpful for Scottish independence - because there the more working class and deprived an area the more likely it was to vote for independence. It might be different if there was also a Gaelic or Scots angle - although there is a wider cultural movement to improve position of Gaelic and in nationalist circles a growth in the use of a type of Scots. But neither is a particularly core issue.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 10:13:41 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 10:13:41 AM
The Catalan language is in the best shape it's been in modern times, but somehow it's going to disappear in a couple weeks if we don't have our own nation-state (and all the relevant powers are already devolved, anyway). If anything nationalist governments have stifled cultural production with their morose parochialism. A hilarious - and slightly terrifying - example: In the first TV show I ever wrote - for the Catalan public TV - we had to have a language expert on set with the power to stop the shoot if he deemed the dialogue improper.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 10:25:24 AM
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2021, 10:25:24 AM
:lol:
That sounds not a million miles from Irish in the 20th century. Irish was taught in schools and probably in a better state than it had been for a long time, but the state didn't want to encourage anything improper. So the TV and radio shows or the books that were taught in school were even more priggish than English language content. Everyone had to learn the language but there was no love for it because the only way it was used was for 19th century women to tell stories of being very poor, devoutly Catholic and in the shadow of the Famine :lol:
It's got a lot better in the last 20 years or so - they're kind of re-discovering the (often filthy) traditional stories and irreverant modernist writers like Mairtin O Cadhain and younger writers/producers are making their own content.
That sounds not a million miles from Irish in the 20th century. Irish was taught in schools and probably in a better state than it had been for a long time, but the state didn't want to encourage anything improper. So the TV and radio shows or the books that were taught in school were even more priggish than English language content. Everyone had to learn the language but there was no love for it because the only way it was used was for 19th century women to tell stories of being very poor, devoutly Catholic and in the shadow of the Famine :lol:
It's got a lot better in the last 20 years or so - they're kind of re-discovering the (often filthy) traditional stories and irreverant modernist writers like Mairtin O Cadhain and younger writers/producers are making their own content.
Title: Re: Languish votes in the Catalan election (Take 2)
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 10:56:22 AM
Post by: celedhring on February 20, 2021, 10:56:22 AM
We haven't moved past that, sadly.
The problem is that it is nearly impossible to get anything produced in Catalan without support of the Catalan government (the market is just way too small), so essentially a lot of the Catalan cultural production (outside of cheap stuff like writing books) is gated and filtered by them. This creates a lot of problems, one of them is that language and culture become political, but another that people wonder why young people don't use Catalan when all they can access is extremely prudish content that doesn't relate at all to life as they experience it (I'm talking mass media here, literature/theater is in a better place, but you won't get many young people consuming those).
The problem is that it is nearly impossible to get anything produced in Catalan without support of the Catalan government (the market is just way too small), so essentially a lot of the Catalan cultural production (outside of cheap stuff like writing books) is gated and filtered by them. This creates a lot of problems, one of them is that language and culture become political, but another that people wonder why young people don't use Catalan when all they can access is extremely prudish content that doesn't relate at all to life as they experience it (I'm talking mass media here, literature/theater is in a better place, but you won't get many young people consuming those).