Today is the 30th anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall, 81st of the Reichskristallnacht, and 101st of the First German Republic. Also named 'German Day of Fate'.
Good article:
https://m.dw.com/en/the-day-the-berlin-wall-came-down/a-51099267
QuoteThe day the Berlin Wall came down
The Cold War, a global power struggle between dictatorship and democracy, ended in Berlin on November 9, 1989. The course of history, however, was set in motion by decisive events outside the country long before that.
It was the global symbol of the division between East and West, for the battle between communism and capitalism: the Berlin Wall, erected by the dictatorship of the German Democratic Republic (GDR), better known as East Germany, in 1961.
That all changed in an instant on November 9, 1989, when a new East German travel policy was announced at a press conference live on state TV. The law announced that — effective immediately — all East German citizens were free to travel to the West. Thousands of people ran straight to the guarded border crossings in the heart of Berlin, which would be opened just hours later.
...
I lived in a city near the border and can remember the Trabants coming over and visiting the grey village just across the border.
The grey village? :area52:
It was one of those things that I remember quite well, but at the same time I was too little to fully grasp its significance. I was staying at my grandma's, and my grandfather (staunch anti-commie until his dying breadth) was immensely happy watching the afternoon news. "Communism has fallen!" he was yelling to grannie.
I remember footage of west germans welcoming the easterners with flowers and drink. Have I imagined that?
:swiss: :punk:
On a personal note, I can't believe it has been a decade since I was at the 20 year commemoration in Berlin.
I was cycling in Germany in 1988 and entered an area where the roads slowly got quieter and quiter, but we were in the heart of Germany, there was an end of the world feeling. Spent the weekend in a place called Reiffenhausen, just a few hundred yards from the frontier with the DDR. We cycled alongside the frontier for a while; it was pretty oppressive to our spirit, barbed wire and watchtowers. Three years later we were in the Harz and crossed over to the former Eastern side; the only evidence being a deterioration in road quality.
We were so happy when we saw the wall coming down on our tv; that and the collapse of the communist despotisms throughout Eastern Europe :cool:
I remember seeing people celebrating on the news. Later I remember seeing chunks of the wall on sale. Yay capitalism. :D
I remember it. I was in grade school at the time. The teacher brought in a radio to class. None of us students understood what going on except it was important.
My habit of watching the news every day started with Tiananmen, and pretty much continued all the way through the Berlin Wall, Romania, Gulf War and the Fall of the Soviet Union. Berlin Wall happened only a few months after Tiananmen. So I was very surprised that it turned out that way. I was initially quite sure that the army would intervene and open fire.
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism :sleep:
That was a shocking day to me in 1989. The Cold War seemed like an eternal reality that would always be with us and suddenly it was obvious it would be over soon. It was an amazing moment full of promise of a better tomorrow.
After the Tiananmen Square protests earlier that year to.
[somebody on this board]You mean the Tiananmen Square riots! But we took care of them :showoff:[/somebody on this board]
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism :sleep:
Trump's insistence on human rights violation will hopefully have a lesser impact on world affairs. :(
I am pretty sure the failures of the Soviet Union were mostly to blame.
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2019, 01:56:10 PM
I am pretty sure the failures of the Soviet Union were mostly to blame.
Haters gonna hate.
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
His middle name was Wilson. :nerd:
I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.
Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.
Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.
Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.
Tamas, that must have been on hell of a tense Christmas, with the ebb and flow of power over those few days.
I remember it well, I was stuck on a series of oilfield construction sites most of that year, a spectator as the world changed. :bowler:
I was doing the same thing we did every night.
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.
That was more like Leyte IMHO.
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.
That was more like Leyte IMHO.
So it was the seventh-largest turning point, as Leyte is the seventh-largest island in the Philippines? Interesting analogy.
Quote from: grumbler on November 09, 2019, 08:54:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.
That was more like Leyte IMHO.
So it was the seventh-largest turning point, as Leyte is the seventh-largest island in the Philippines? Interesting analogy.
ty
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism :sleep:
Tony Montana would have agreed.
Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.
Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.
It's a Goddamn miracle that whole Eastern Bloc didn't collapse into civil war.
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.
A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism :sleep:
OT but the credit goes to:
Ford, Carter, and the US Congress for imposing national fuel efficiency standards
Carter and Reagan for decontrolling petroleum prices
Paul Volcker for throwing the OECD economies into recession in the early 80s
Phillips/Statoil etc for offshore field discoveries in the North Sea in the late 70s and early 80s
King Fahd and Ahmed Zaki Yamani for reversing course in 1985 and vastly increasing Saudi oil production
The combined effect of these actions was a gradual decline in oil prices followed by a complete collapse of the market in the winter of 1985-1986.
Similar trends affected other commodity markets.
The late Soviet economy was heavily dependent on the extractive resource industries for export and forex earnings and could not cope with the blow.
Communism defeated by markets.
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism :sleep:
I've never been a fan of Carter's, but I don't remember him insisting on violating human rights. :P
Why do you think he's known as History's Greatest Monster?
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2019, 11:06:01 PM
Why do you think he's known as History's Greatest Monster?
IMO, that title should still belong to Boris Karloff. ;)