News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

30 Years ago, the Berlin Wall came down

Started by Zanza, November 09, 2019, 04:10:46 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Tamas

I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.

Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.

mongers

Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.

Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.

Tamas, that must have been on hell of a tense Christmas, with the ebb and flow of power over those few days.

I remember it well, I was stuck on a series of oilfield construction sites most of that year, a spectator as the world changed.   :bowler:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

The Brain

I was doing the same thing we did every night.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Admiral Yi

The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.

The Brain

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.

That was more like Leyte IMHO.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

grumbler

Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.

That was more like Leyte IMHO.

So it was the seventh-largest turning point, as Leyte is the seventh-largest island in the Philippines? Interesting analogy.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

The Brain

Quote from: grumbler on November 09, 2019, 08:54:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
The wall coming down was the iconic TV friendly moment, but I'd argue that the true turning point was the failed coup in Moscow.

That was more like Leyte IMHO.

So it was the seventh-largest turning point, as Leyte is the seventh-largest island in the Philippines? Interesting analogy.

ty
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.

A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism  :sleep:

Tony Montana would have agreed.

Razgovory

Quote from: Tamas on November 09, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
I was 9 at the time, and in terms of this and other happenings of the Eastern bloc collapsing, I didn't understand it of course, but I could sense something big was going on, and the excitement for a better future in the air.

Also things like the shitstorm in Romania, I remember folks being tense, worried for being dragged in to it.


It's a Goddamn miracle that whole Eastern Bloc didn't collapse into civil war.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

#24
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 09, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Ronald 'Jericho' Reagan's greatest triumph.

A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism  :sleep:

OT but the credit goes to:
Ford, Carter, and the US Congress for imposing national fuel efficiency standards
Carter and Reagan for decontrolling petroleum prices
Paul Volcker for throwing the OECD economies into recession in the early 80s
Phillips/Statoil etc for offshore field discoveries in the North Sea in the late 70s and early 80s
King Fahd and Ahmed Zaki Yamani for reversing course in 1985 and vastly increasing Saudi oil production

The combined effect of these actions was a gradual decline in oil prices followed by a complete collapse of the market in the winter of 1985-1986.
Similar trends affected other commodity markets.
The late Soviet economy was heavily dependent on the extractive resource industries for export and forex earnings and could not cope with the blow.

Communism defeated by markets.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

dps

Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2019, 01:29:09 PM


A case could be made that it was Carter's insistence on human rights violation that started the demise of communism  :sleep:

I've never been a fan of Carter's, but I don't remember him insisting on violating human rights.    :P

Eddie Teach

Why do you think he's known as History's Greatest Monster?
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

dps

Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2019, 11:06:01 PM
Why do you think he's known as History's Greatest Monster?

IMO, that title should still belong to Boris Karloff.   ;)