Going with some buddies to Vegas this weekend, penthouse suite at the Palms for 4 nights.... any tips or musts while there? :cool:
Have fun!
...as much as one can in Vegas. :(
Not a must, but Tao (which is also in NYC) is a fun restaurant (in the Venetian).
Whatever you do, it has to stay there.
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
Whatever you do, it has to stay there.
Meaning, don't post about it on Languish or it will follow you forever. :P
They have gambling there, so you can do that.
Oh, since this is the middle of July, I suggest always having plenty of water on you. It'll be very brutal.
Been through 150 degrees in full gear, I'll be ok :P
But yes definitely lots of swimming during the days, drinking/partying all night. Definitely will check out the tao, maybe the night club too?
Never went to the night club. Oh and brunch at the bellagio was fun. It's so pretty!
Any reason you're staying off the strip?
We're only like a block or so off the strip.... :unsure:
Quote from: Alcibiades on July 17, 2009, 10:34:08 AM
We're only like a block or so off the strip.... :unsure:
It's more than a block, it's about 1.5 miles from the strip.
Mmm...*shrug* That's not too far, nice walk.
True, although plan on walking several miles just on the strip itself.
Oh and you could take the bus out to see Fremont Street, although I'm not really sure it is worth it. Sort of the same rattiness that you can get at the far end of the strip minus the "fremont street experience."
Well again, the walk wont bother us, we're all in amazing shape...and used to heat.
Looks nice G, but yeah not sure if that's really worth it.
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2009, 10:12:39 AM
Not a must, but Tao (which is also in NYC) is a fun restaurant (in the Venetian).
I liked Bouchon the best, but Tao is also good. The Venetian is pretty good all-around. Try the burger bar in the walkway between Mandalay Bay and (Luxor?, Excaliber?, whichever is the next one over).
Edit:
http://www.venetian.com/pages.aspx?id=832
http://www.venetian.com/Pages.aspx?id=880
http://www.mandalaybay.com/dining/burgerbar.aspx
Quote from: Alcibiades on July 17, 2009, 10:48:04 AM
Well again, the walk wont bother us, we're all in amazing shape...and used to heat.
I'd put it more on the time element, although I got bored in Vegas so I was constantly looking for something to waste my time. :D
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 17, 2009, 10:49:23 AM
Try the burger bar in the walkway between Mandalay Bay and (Luxor?, Excaliber?, whichever is the next one over).
Luxor, it is in the middle between Mandalay Bay and Excalibur.
Nope, I was just there a few months ago. You can look it up on google maps. Excalibur is in between Luxor, New York-New York, and the Tropicana.
edit: I should have quoted you, Dgully. :P
Oh and actually I thought the Venetian smelled a little funky. Like there were using some sort of soap smell to try and cover over the stale smoke smell. That's why I liked the Bellagio the best as it just seemed so clean.
Alci, the aquarium in the hotel lobby of the Mirage is kinda neat. And because of what it is, free! (which clearly the real aquarium in Mandalay Bay is not).
Best advice I can give about Vegas is embrace the artificiality of it all and just have fun. Oh and play craps. Lots of craps.
I can now say from experience that the Venetian Hotel has very little to do with Venice.
Keep in mind dealers are paid minimum wage and are working for tips.
Hard ways and field are suckers bets. Odds on pass and don't pass are the only even money bets you will find in Vegas. Ask for a gamer's guide (all casinos have them) if you don't know the rules/odds of any game.
Sit down and play some low blind Hold 'Em. Couple dudes I know came recently went and said the poker rooms are swarming with Euro tourists just throwing their money away.
For titty bar go to the Crazy Horse.
The Flamingo has Bugsy's face on their chips. Go, do a couple lines of Swingers dialogue, then leave. The place is a dump.
If you like thrill rides than try the ones on top of the Stratosphere. Just don't be afraid of heights.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2009, 11:02:30 AM
Best advice I can give about Vegas is embrace the artificiality of it all and just have fun. Oh and play craps. Lots of craps.
This. :yes:
Best fun I had in Vegas was at the craps tables. Play it Alci.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 12:12:47 PM
Keep in mind dealers are paid minimum wage and are working for tips.
Yi, makes a very good point. Always tip the dealers at the craps table early and often and also make two way bets every once in a while - two way bets are when you make bets on long shots (usually only wagering a buck or two) and if the bet wins you and the dealers split the winnings. Ask how this is done and the dealers will be happy to explain it all to you.
Keeping the dealers happy will make your gambling experience much more enjoyable in a lot of ways including banter at the table etc. Having a fun table draws a lot of excitement which draws more players and pretty soon you are caught in a viscious cycle of fun :cool:
As a practical matter if you tip the dealers they will also pay close attention to make sure you dont miss bets you should be making to increase your odds. Craps can move fast for a first time player and it always helps to have the dealers on your side. Even for someone like me who plays craps all the time it is very helpful to have friendly dealers. If they know you will take care of them, they will take care of you.
Yup. I usually bet a two way hard 6 or 8 when the point is 6 or 8. Then when I cash out whatever odd chips are left over tip that too.
Watch the "O" show in Bellagio.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 03:17:06 PM
Yup. I usually bet a two way hard 6 or 8 when the point is 6 or 8.
Exactly what I do. :)
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2009, 03:31:52 PM
Exactly what I do. :)
I'm curious if you ever bet any of the red propositions. How do you feel about betting Don't Pass?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2009, 03:31:52 PM
Exactly what I do. :)
I'm curious if you ever bet any of the red propositions. How do you feel about betting Don't Pass?
I almost never bet the exotics. I am pretty methodical. Bet the Pass Line, keeping making Come bets and leverage everything to the max.
I really hate the folks that bet against the shooter on the Don't Pass line. I think the game is a lot more fun when everyone is winning together. Generally when I see that happening I pick up my chips and go to another table.
Max odds all the time? You don't vary the odds based on the "hotness" of the roller?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 04:29:43 PM
Max odds all the time? You don't vary the odds based on the "hotness" of the roller?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjamie-online.com%2Frandom-jamz%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F06%2Ffacepalm.jpg&hash=81fb06b419ccaa034fffe057aaf203600d841c71)
You do understand the logic of house odds, don't you?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 04:50:46 PM
You do understand the logic of house odds, don't you?
I'm not sure I do, I've never played craps. I just know that making gambling decisions based on "hotness" of any kind are at best neutral to your expectation.
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 04:56:16 PM
I'm not sure I do, I've never played craps. I just know that making gambling decisions based on "hotness" of any kind are at best neutral to your expectation.
The logic of house odds is that if you play long enough you are guaranteed to lose. So you can choose to place the same bet every time in the certainty that you will lose, or you can choose to increase your bet on hunches, intuition, superstition in the hopes you will win or at least lengthen the time before you lose out.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 05:00:53 PM
The logic of house odds is that if you play long enough you are guaranteed to lose. So you can choose to place the same bet every time in the certainty that you will lose, or you can choose to increase your bet on hunches, intuition, superstition in the hopes you will win or at least lengthen the time before you lose out.
Where is the "logic" part?
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 05:04:32 PM
Where is the "logic" part?
The mathematical certainty that the house always wins in the long run.
Every time I went to Las Vegas, I was tempted to buy stocks in gambling companies. The House always wins.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 17, 2009, 05:07:52 PM
Every time I went to Las Vegas, I was tempted to buy stocks in gambling companies. The House always wins.
When was the last time you checked the stocks of all the major Vegas casino holding companies?
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 05:08:45 PM
When was the last time you checked the stocks of all the major Vegas casino holding companies?
I never did :lol: Figured that they are all run by mafia will keep profits to themselves, instead of sharing them with small investors.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 05:04:32 PM
Where is the "logic" part?
The mathematical certainty that the house always wins in the long run.
Yes, that one is obvious. I just don't see how the part that came after that helps. If you have a fixed amount of money to lose, then betting big will make you lose it quicker on average.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 17, 2009, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 05:08:45 PM
When was the last time you checked the stocks of all the major Vegas casino holding companies?
I never did :lol: Figured that they are all run by mafia will keep profits to themselves, instead of sharing them with small investors.
None of them are run by the mafia anymore. A lot of them are run by receivers, though, or about to be.
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2009, 05:12:39 PM
None of them are run by the mafia anymore. A lot of them are run by receivers, though, or about to be.
Yeah, same thing in Macau. A lot of the holding companies are from HK. Casino stocks were hot 2 years ago. Now they are all in cents territory.
Thank hod I didn't buy any.
Have fun! :w00t:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 04:29:43 PM
Max odds all the time? You don't vary the odds based on the "hotness" of the roller?
No, statistically you get closest to a 50% chance if you play consistently by maxing all the odds of the chips in play. That is why I always bet via the Come line. You can get better odds by betting the numbers after the Point through the Come line rather then betting directly.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2009, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 17, 2009, 04:29:43 PM
Max odds all the time? You don't vary the odds based on the "hotness" of the roller?
No, statistically you get closest to a 50% chance if you play consistently by maxing all the odds of the chips in play. That is why I always bet via the Come line. You can get better odds by betting the numbers after the Point through the Come line rather then betting directly.
You get even better odds if you don't gamble ;)
Quote from: Monoriu on July 17, 2009, 05:57:08 PM
You get even better odds if you don't gamble ;)
[/quote]
You are in the wrong thread. We were talking about having fun in Vegas.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2009, 07:25:50 PM
You are in the wrong thread. We were talking about having fun in Vegas.
So why are you talking about gambling then? :unsure:
If you want to beat the house, the best way is to take your entire bankroll and put in on the line in one go. In one spin of the roulette wheel or round of blackjack, the house edge is negligible. Of course--walking into a casino and making just one bet may not be very much fun.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
If you want to beat the house, the best way is to take your entire bankroll and put in on the line in one go. In one spin of the roulette wheel or round of blackjack, the house edge is negligible. Of course--walking into a casino and making just one bet may not be very much fun.
That's not true. The house edge on one play is exactly the same as on repeated plays.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2009, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
If you want to beat the house, the best way is to take your entire bankroll and put in on the line in one go. In one spin of the roulette wheel or round of blackjack, the house edge is negligible. Of course--walking into a casino and making just one bet may not be very much fun.
That's not true. The house edge on one play is exactly the same as on repeated plays.
I think what AR means is that in just one round, your results are much more determined by luck than by the house edge. The effect of house edge is very minimal compared to the effect of the luck of the draw. The more rounds you play, the less luck in your results, and your results approach the expected house take.
In general, when playing in games with negative expectation, the strategy is to increase your volatility if you can keep all else equal. When playing games with positive expectation, like when you're a card shark in a poker room, the strategy is to reduce your volatility if you can keep all else equal.
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 01:16:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2009, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
If you want to beat the house, the best way is to take your entire bankroll and put in on the line in one go. In one spin of the roulette wheel or round of blackjack, the house edge is negligible. Of course--walking into a casino and making just one bet may not be very much fun.
That's not true. The house edge on one play is exactly the same as on repeated plays.
I think what AR means is that in just one round, your results are much more determined by luck than by the house edge. The effect of house edge is very minimal compared to the effect of the luck of the draw. The more rounds you play, the less luck in your results, and your results approach the expected house take.
In general, when playing in games with negative expectation, the strategy is to increase your volatility if you can keep all else equal. When playing games with positive expectation, like when you're a card shark in a poker room, the strategy is to reduce your volatility if you can keep all else equal.
Yes, that is what I was referring to.
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 01:16:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2009, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
If you want to beat the house, the best way is to take your entire bankroll and put in on the line in one go. In one spin of the roulette wheel or round of blackjack, the house edge is negligible. Of course--walking into a casino and making just one bet may not be very much fun.
That's not true. The house edge on one play is exactly the same as on repeated plays.
I think what AR means is that in just one round, your results are much more determined by luck than by the house edge. The effect of house edge is very minimal compared to the effect of the luck of the draw. The more rounds you play, the less luck in your results, and your results approach the expected house take.
In general, when playing in games with negative expectation, the strategy is to increase your volatility if you can keep all else equal. When playing games with positive expectation, like when you're a card shark in a poker room, the strategy is to reduce your volatility if you can keep all else equal.
That logic is not as good in the case of craps. If a player uses a strategy of betting number through the Come line and leveraging those bets then over time their odds come close to 50% which are a lot better then the odds on the first roll.
It may be the only game in the Casino that operates that way.
The mistake most players make is that they step up to the table and place money on exotics (high return, higher risk) bets and soon they are out of money. Some on the first roll.
If you play craps right and stay in the game long enough you will likely break even and if you have enough discipline to walk away after a string of hot rollers you can make a lot of money at it.
The mistake I always make is going back the next day and giving back my winnings.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2009, 02:23:20 PM
If you play craps right and stay in the game long enough you will likely break even and if you have enough discipline to walk away after a string of hot rollers you can make a lot of money at it.
The mistake I always make is going back the next day and giving back my winnings.
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
Hey knucklehead, he's talking ex post.
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
You have obviously never played craps.
Once the point is hit you are in the game. You cannot simply pick up your chips and walk away until that roller craps out. If the roller keeps rolling for 15-20 minutes you will make a lot of money. That is called a "hot" roller. If you are smart you will take all that money and leave the table. If you have bet correctly you will likey be up several thousand dollars.
Often though that does not occur and a roller will only roll for a short amount of time before craping out and passing the dice to the next roller. that is when it is most important to make sure you maximize our odds in the manner described. On an even distribution of good and bad rolls your odds will come close to 50%. It is the only game in the Casino where you can do this.
Either way, if someone approaches the craps table with the thought of only betting on one roll their odds will be considerably less then if they play the table and increase their odds.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2009, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
You have obviously never played craps.
Once the point is hit you are in the game. You cannot simply pick up your chips and walk away until that roller craps out. If the roller keeps rolling for 15-20 minutes you will make a lot of money. That is called a "hot" roller. If you are smart you will take all that money and leave the table. If you have bet correctly you will likey be up several thousand dollars.
Often though that does not occur and a roller will only roll for a short amount of time before craping out and passing the dice to the next roller. that is when it is most important to make sure you maximize our odds in the manner described. On an even distribution of good and bad rolls your odds will come close to 50%. It is the only game in the Casino where you can do this.
Either way, if someone approaches the craps table with the thought of only betting on one roll their odds will be considerably less then if they play the table and increase their odds.
No, I've never played craps, but that makes no difference at all. The theory applies to any game. Saying that you should "walk away after a string of hot rollers" is the fallacious reasoning. It's not "hot rollers" that's fallacious, that seems to be just part of the game strategy based on what you described, it's the "string". It doesn't matter if you had a string of hot rollers or a string of cold rollers, your expectation before the next roller is the same.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2009, 04:16:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
Hey knucklehead, he's talking ex post.
Results-oriented thinking is another gambling fallacy.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2009, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
As I said earlier in this thread, deciding to keep playing based on "hotness" or how much you're up/down has no bearing on your winnings. The concept of "hotness" is one of the fallacious logical conclusions that human brain creates to try to explain the inherently random events, because our brains are not designed to work with randomness.
You have obviously never played craps.
Once the point is hit you are in the game. You cannot simply pick up your chips and walk away until that roller craps out. If the roller keeps rolling for 15-20 minutes you will make a lot of money. That is called a "hot" roller. If you are smart you will take all that money and leave the table. If you have bet correctly you will likey be up several thousand dollars.
Often though that does not occur and a roller will only roll for a short amount of time before craping out and passing the dice to the next roller. that is when it is most important to make sure you maximize our odds in the manner described. On an even distribution of good and bad rolls your odds will come close to 50%. It is the only game in the Casino where you can do this.
Either way, if someone approaches the craps table with the thought of only betting on one roll their odds will be considerably less then if they play the table and increase their odds.
I have never played craps, but from what you describe, it sounds like a betting event on which to put all of your money would be one roller, rather than one roll.
Since it sounds like you won't know how long a roller will last, you can't be sure how much to bet early on to last for exactly one roller. So my strategy may not be implementable for craps, but as long as the house has an edge I think the general rule of betting heavy for a short period of time still holds (if you aren't in it for hours of fun gambling, which of course is a big part of the reason to go to Vegas).
Quote from: DGuller on July 20, 2009, 04:25:54 PM
No, I've never played craps, but that makes no difference at all. The theory applies to any game. Saying that you should "walk away after a string of hot rollers" is the fallacious reasoning. It's not "hot rollers" that's fallacious, that seems to be just part of the game strategy based on what you described, it's the "string". It doesn't matter if you had a string of hot rollers or a string of cold rollers, your expectation before the next roller is the same.
:frusty:
There is no fallacy involved in saying you should walk away from a game of chance if you have won a bunch of money.
The fallacy is in saying that every game of chance is the same. Craps is the only game in the casino which can be played in such a way as to come close to 50%. Therefore it is the only game in the casino where you have a good chance to break even and if you are lucky enough to hit a hot roller while you are busy breaking even then you can make a lot of money. If you walk away at that point.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
I have never played craps, but from what you describe, it sounds like for my strategy a betting event on which to put all of your money would be one roller, rather than one roll.
Since it sounds like you won't know how long a roller will last, you can't be sure how much to bet early on to last for exactly one roller. So my strategy may not be implementable for craps, but as long as the house has an edge I think the general rule of betting heavy for a short period of time still holds (if you aren't in it for hours of fun gambling, which of course is a big part of the reason to go to Vegas).
You could follow the "one time" strategy in craps by betting the whole shebang on pass + odds.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2009, 04:33:50 PM
:frusty:
There is no fallacy involved in saying you should walk away from a game of chance if you have won a bunch of money.
There is a fallacy is saying that walking away based on how you did affects your long-run results, and it's called gambler's fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy
Quote
The fallacy is in saying that every game of chance is the same. Craps is the only game in the casino which can be played in such a way as to come close to 50%. Therefore it is the only game in the casino where you have a good chance to break even and if you are lucky enough to hit a hot roller while you are busy breaking even then you can make a lot of money. If you walk away at that point.
Fundamentally every gambling game with negative expectation is in fact the same. Close to 50% is still not 50%, and thus is still negative expectation.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
I have never played craps, but from what you describe, it sounds like a betting event on which to put all of your money would be one roller, rather than one roll.
Since it sounds like you won't know how long a roller will last, you can't be sure how much to bet early on to last for exactly one roller. So my strategy may not be implementable for craps, but as long as the house has an edge I think the general rule of betting heavy for a short period of time still holds (if you aren't in it for hours of fun gambling, which of course is a big part of the reason to go to Vegas).
Its a little differnent then that. In craps everything works off multiples of the table minimum limit and so there really isnt any judgment involved in how much the initial bet will be. The first bet is the table minimum. - say $5.
After the point is hit you can now lay odds on your first pass line bet - a multiple of the first bet. You then also bet a Come Line bet (also usually at the table minimum). If the number other then the point or craps is rolled then that Come line bet then gets moved to that number and you add odds to it as well.
The process repeats itself unit either the Point is rolled or the shooter craps out (by rolling a 7). Also you cannot pick up your chips once the Point is hit until the roller either craps out or hits the point again.
There are lots of other ways to play it that are closer to what you describe but those kinds of bets are what are called exotic bets (as I said high pay and higher risk). Most Craps players call those sucker bets.