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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Maladict on June 10, 2017, 04:05:41 AM

Poll
Question: Which of these separatist movements do you sympathize with?
Option 1: Quebec votes: 8
Option 2: Catalunya votes: 9
Option 3: Basque country votes: 9
Option 4: Corsica votes: 4
Option 5: Kurdistan (Turkey and Iraq) votes: 33
Option 6: Republika Srpska votes: 5
Option 7: Scotland votes: 12
Option 8: Ireland (unification) votes: 13
Option 9: CSA II votes: 2
Option 10: None, separatism is treason votes: 2
Option 11: None, I don't like change (mono) votes: 0
Option 12: Other: votes: 3
Title: Separatism and you
Post by: Maladict on June 10, 2017, 04:05:41 AM
Which of the above would you approve of, if not actively support? Pick as many as apply.

Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 10, 2017, 04:12:50 AM
I sympathise with the Kurds who get a bad deal from the various states that they are in.

Also Ireland, but that is going to be a very long and delicate process.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Zanza on June 10, 2017, 04:21:56 AM
What little I know makes me think that the situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina is not sustainable and it might be better if the Republika Srpska splits off and joins Serbia proper.

The Kurds also seem to have legitimate grievances in Turkey, Iraq and Iran and them having their own state might be a good outcome.

Not sure about Ireland.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: celedhring on June 10, 2017, 04:35:13 AM
If only England and the ROI belonged to a supranational economic area with completely free flow of people and goods within the island, the need for an united Ireland would become increasingly moot.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2017, 04:37:06 AM
None really. Maybe Kurdistan. Certainly nothing in Europe or NA.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: The Brain on June 10, 2017, 06:18:05 AM
Other: I have no strong opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 10, 2017, 06:49:43 AM
Québec because multiculturalism ;)
Ireland: not separatism, the separation there was after WWI, more like irredentism. It might go back to Ireland in due time.
Kurdistan: they deserve it, no question, but the neighboring states are against it.
If the Basques can do it peacefully, à la catalane, inside the EU, linked by TGVs and standard gauge to Europe (no Abertzale Festung bitte) yes.
Catalunya
Scotland: no strong opinion, calvinist separatism is past its due date :D
Corsica: ambivalent but the independents movement seems mostly dead nowadays, only claiming more subsidies. I am not sure Italy is willing to buy it ;)
Actually, other French territories could go and that would be a bonus for the métropole: namely Mayotte (joining the Comoros paradise that is) plus most French Antilles. Guyane could be given to Brazil to restore order, plus Tordesillas treaty compliance  :P :P except for Kourou (Ariane rockets are still vital).
Kerguelen Islands will stay French. :D

Others:
South Tyrol/Alto Adige has got a pretty good status within Italy so no need to reunite with Austria I believe.

PS: funny how a Batavian forgot about Flanders/Belgium/Wallonia.  :P
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
Unless the country at large is heavily oppressing/murdering the minority in question I am against separatism. On that basis, only the Kurds in that list deserve it.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Ancient Demon on June 10, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
I could only agree with Kurdistan and Srpska on that list. I find the supposed grievances of separatist movements in developed countries to be frivolous.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: dps on June 10, 2017, 08:10:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
Unless the country at large is heavily oppressing/murdering the minority in question I am against separatism. On that basis, only the Kurds in that list deserve it.

I largely agree with this.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Lettow77 on June 10, 2017, 08:18:45 AM
:3
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: fromtia on June 10, 2017, 08:27:21 AM
Generally support the idea of local or regional control, but in the framework of some sort of federal system. Kurds, yeah hard not to see them as victims of history at it's worst. Generally supported Scottish independence, but the Scots themselves seem to have lost interest a bit for now.

Self determination, it's quaint and nineteenth century, but hard not to like.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: DGuller on June 10, 2017, 08:29:32 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
Unless the country at large is heavily oppressing/murdering the minority in question I am against separatism. On that basis, only the Kurds in that list deserve it.
I think there are more cases than that.  Democratic countries, to stay democratic, have to not have divisions that trump all else.  If there are such divisions, then politics inside that country becomes zero-sum total war.  In that case it would be to the benefit of everyone in the country to separate into more homogeneous blocks rather than have to endure perpetually festering internal problems.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2017, 08:44:30 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on June 10, 2017, 08:18:45 AM
:3

I support Japanese independence.  :)
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: The Larch on June 10, 2017, 09:20:19 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 10, 2017, 04:21:56 AM
What little I know makes me think that the situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina is not sustainable and it might be better if the Republika Srpska splits off and joins Serbia proper.

It has to be said that if the situation is Bosnia is so unstable and untenable is mostly because the Sprska Republic act like jerks all the time and boycott the central Bosnian government as much as possible, so allowing them to secede would be "rewarding" their behaviour.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Barrister on June 10, 2017, 09:30:25 AM
No option for Western Canadian Independence?!? :ultra:
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Maximus on June 10, 2017, 09:35:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2017, 08:29:32 AM
I think there are more cases than that.  Democratic countries, to stay democratic, have to not have divisions that trump all else.  If there are such divisions, then politics inside that country becomes zero-sum total war.  In that case it would be to the benefit of everyone in the country to separate into more homogeneous blocks rather than have to endure perpetually festering internal problems.
The question was who do you sympathize with. I have no sympathy for groups that create divisions that trump all else on an ethnic or nationalistic basis. The ideal is to get rid of such groups, not reward them.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: DGuller on June 10, 2017, 09:50:50 AM
Quote from: Maximus on June 10, 2017, 09:35:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2017, 08:29:32 AM
I think there are more cases than that.  Democratic countries, to stay democratic, have to not have divisions that trump all else.  If there are such divisions, then politics inside that country becomes zero-sum total war.  In that case it would be to the benefit of everyone in the country to separate into more homogeneous blocks rather than have to endure perpetually festering internal problems.
The question was who do you sympathize with. I have no sympathy for groups that create divisions that trump all else on an ethnic or nationalistic basis. The ideal is to get rid of such groups, not reward them.
Sometimes things are what they are, regardless of what you think they should be.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Maximus on June 10, 2017, 09:51:20 AM
But that wasn't the question.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 10, 2017, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2017, 09:30:25 AM
No option for Western Canadian Independence?!? :ultra:

I'm sure the First Nations would appreciate it.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: The Brain on June 10, 2017, 11:23:34 AM
What is the question.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2017, 11:35:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 10, 2017, 11:23:34 AM
What is the question.

No, I think it's who.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Jacob on June 10, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2017, 09:30:25 AM
No option for Western Canadian Independence?!? :ultra:

Not sure Cascadia would take Alberta anyhow.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Razgovory on June 10, 2017, 03:35:38 PM
I just don't know if an independent Quebec would be positive.


(https://s15.postimg.org/nx7djpdp7/tumblr_m5iz7p_FOLa1qk160go1_500.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qraix5fvb/)
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Maladict on June 10, 2017, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 10, 2017, 06:49:43 AM

PS: funny how a Batavian forgot about Flanders/Belgium/Wallonia.  :P

I didn't forget, but I thought it wasn't quite the same as the others as it would make the original country disappear entirely.
Although maybe not so different from Bosnia actually.

And yes, I was born in Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum  :juliuscivilis:
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Grallon on June 10, 2017, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 10, 2017, 06:49:43 AM
Québec because multiculturalism ;)



I hope you're joking!  Multikulti is a fucking cancer - anywhere it spreads!



G.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Quote from: Grallon on June 10, 2017, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 10, 2017, 06:49:43 AM
Québec because multiculturalism ;)



I hope you're joking!  Multikulti is a fucking cancer - anywhere it spreads!



G.

Multikulti :punk:
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on June 10, 2017, 07:48:32 PM
It sounds like it's time for Grallon to assimilate into the dominant Canadian culture.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2017, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Multikulti :punk:

Sounds like a terrible metal band.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2017, 08:02:14 PM
True
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2017, 08:02:53 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on June 10, 2017, 07:48:32 PM
It sounds like it's time for Grallon to assimilate into the dominant Canadian culture.

Only if there are cherubim.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Barrister on June 10, 2017, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 10, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2017, 09:30:25 AM
No option for Western Canadian Independence?!? :ultra:

Not sure Cascadia would take Alberta anyhow.

Not that either is particularly likely, but Western Canadian separatism (as opposed to Cascadia, the BC/Washington State invention) has had a little more success.  The Western Canada Concept long ago had an elected MLA and won just over 10% of the vote in the Alberta 1982 provincial election (on a platform of explicit western independence).
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: AnchorClanker on June 10, 2017, 11:46:37 PM
CSA II  :shifty:

So tempting... the longer I am alive, and the more years I rack up down here, I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that fighting a war to retain the South in the Union was a bad idea... it's not like Reconstruction worked in the slightest... and what little was accomplished was dismantled in a very short time after the Federal troops left.
Title: Re: Separatism and you
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2017, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: Grallon on June 10, 2017, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 10, 2017, 06:49:43 AM
Québec because multiculturalism ;)



I hope you're joking!  Multikulti is a fucking cancer - anywhere it spreads!



G.

I am serious. Multiculturalism is a good reason for Québec to secede. It's not like Québec needed one more anyways.