Apparently Puerto Rico is going to have a referendum on statehood. Puerto Rican statehood is part of both the GOP and Democratic platforms.
How would a yes-vote play out?
Hard statehood.
Is it referendum day? Our regional government has called (yet another) independence referendum today. October 1st.
Isn't a huge hangup re Puerto Rico statehood that they would almost always return 2 Dem senators?
New States have to be admitted by Congress. They will find an excuse not to honor this referendum.
Edit: The polls indicate a pretty decisive win for statehood. We will see if that makes it harder for Congress to find an excuse if that happens.
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:26:42 PM
Isn't a huge hangup re Puerto Rico statehood that they would almost always return 2 Dem senators?
I do not think that is true. It is the Right Wing party that controls most of the government of the island right now.
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
Is it referendum day? Our regional government has called (yet another) independence referendum today. October 1st.
It is on Sunday.
And :bleeding: about your referendum
Ugh
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:26:42 PM
Isn't a huge hangup re Puerto Rico statehood that they would almost always return 2 Dem senators?
I do not think that is true. It is the Right Wing party that controls most of the government of the island right now.
Can't really count on these things anyway. When Alaska was granted statehood, it was assumed they'd always return 2 Democratic Senators, which hasn't been the case.
No
We'd get a cool 51-star flag
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f7cf4836444ba3c0af1101926becc761)
Even if they vote yes, it's going to take a few years before any formal admission would happen, and it would probably be contingent on Puerto Rico getting its books in better order. With as sore a subject as our economy's been, nobody in Congress is going to want to be blamed for adding all that red ink directly to the national ledgers.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on June 09, 2017, 08:10:15 PM
We'd get a cool 51-star flag
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f7cf4836444ba3c0af1101926becc761)
Timmy made a flag.
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
Is it referendum day? Our regional government has called (yet another) independence referendum today. October 1st.
What's the likely outcome?
Step 1 : dump illegals into PR
step 2: grant independence
Step 3: Profit!
I love West Side Story. :yeah:
Puerto Rico in, Timmay out.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2017, 08:45:05 PM
Puerto Rico in, Timmay out.
Katmai out too. We'll keep Lusti.
It gives the others hope. And when their hopes are dashed, you can revel in their agony.
Learn to be evil like me. I will teach you.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 09, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
It gives the others hope. And when their hopes are dashed, you can revel in their agony.
Learn to be evil like me. I will teach you.
We're not going to argue with these people.
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 06:46:58 PM
New States have to be admitted by Congress. They will find an excuse not to honor this referendum.
Edit: The polls indicate a pretty decisive win for statehood. We will see if that makes it harder for Congress to find an excuse if that happens.
I've heard that if statehood wins decisively they're going to follow the Tennesseee plan and elect congressmen and senators and demand to be seated. I remember reading about this in history, but I hadn't realized six other states successfully followed this plan.
http://www.pr51st.com/tennessee-and-the-tennessee-plan/
Well sure why not? It is not like this year could get weirder for the US.
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Well sure why not? It is not like this year could get weirder for the US.
Challenge Accepted?
I am skeptical that a GOP Congress will admit PR to the union. But if something isn't done to staunch the bleeding in PR, they're going to eventually shift Florida blue for the long haul. Their debt is not serviceable and their population keeps declining, creating a negative downward spiral. The government can try to keep increasing taxes, but there's no legal barrier to prevent every person on the island from fleeing to the mainland to escape those taxes. And that debt doesn't follow them...
If I were the PR's government I'd do two things to get Trump onside.
#1 Play on his vanity. You'd be the first President since Eisenhower to add a star! :worthy:
#2 Corruption. Sell Trump Organization seaside real estate for pennies on the dollars, etc.
That sounds like a good recipe to turn the US public against PR statehood and it's not like Trump could force a bill through anyway.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 09, 2017, 11:56:20 PM
That sounds like a good recipe to turn the US public against PR statehood and it's not like Trump could force a bill through anyway.
You obviously do it in secret.
What's the joy in being a secret state?
Quote from: The Brain on June 10, 2017, 01:39:43 AM
What's the joy in being a secret state?
you get an invisible star and a secret handshake
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2017, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
Is it referendum day? Our regional government has called (yet another) independence referendum today. October 1st.
What's the likely outcome?
It's unilateral, so the Spanish gov will prevent it from ever taking place.
If it was for reals? I'd say a similar result to the Scottish one ("no" with 55-ish share).
So if Catalonia goes independent, does it mean that Barcelona will get to play in a league of its own :lol:
Didn't they do this already?
Taking their time.
Quote from: celedhring on June 10, 2017, 02:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2017, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 09, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
Is it referendum day? Our regional government has called (yet another) independence referendum today. October 1st.
What's the likely outcome?
It's unilateral, so the Spanish gov will prevent it from ever taking place.
which may very will be the act that loses them the region.
Thing is that the separatists have painted themselves into a corner - support for separatism is fading but at the same time they have gone too far to give up. Their only bet is for the Spanish gov to overreact - but Madrid has shown to know better than that. The referendum will be nominally banned, and its organizers prosecuted, but I doubt we'll see the Spanish police closing down polls on October 1st. Heck, it's even doubtful that the Catalan regional government has the capacity to organize a "proper" referendum (they did one in 2014 but it was a joke). I think Madrid will call the bluff and let the thing peter out.
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Well sure why not? It is not like this year could get weirder for the US.
If the tactic has succeeded 7 out 8 times, is it really that weird?
Winners - Tennessee, Michigan, Iowa, California, Oregon, Kansas, and Alaska
Losers - New Mexico
Of course, out of those 8, Puerto Rico has more in common with New Mexico...
Quote from: Monoriu on June 10, 2017, 02:17:15 AM
So if Catalonia goes independent, does it mean that Barcelona will get to play in a league of its own :lol:
Actually, there was a joke by the then French prime minister, a Catalan, to have Barça join the French League. :lol:
Doesn't Barcelona (or their D team at least) already regularly win a catalunya Cup?
Quote from: Tyr on June 10, 2017, 06:54:38 AM
Doesn't Barcelona (or their D team at least) already regularly win a catalunya Cup?
No, actually Espanyol usually wins that one, we never give much of a shit.
18 minute interview with Ricardo Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/09/statehood-sovereignty-bankrupt-puerto-rico-heads-to-ballot-box-for-status-vote.html
Aren't the anti-Statehood parties boycotting the referendum?
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 10, 2017, 07:16:30 AM
Aren't the anti-Statehood parties boycotting the referendum?
Independence party is small and status quo is withered. Polls are in the 60-70% range for statehood. If the opposition boycotts, the outcome will be higher than that.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 06:01:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Well sure why not? It is not like this year could get weirder for the US.
If the tactic has succeeded 7 out 8 times, is it really that weird?
Winners - Tennessee, Michigan, Iowa, California, Oregon, Kansas, and Alaska
Losers - New Mexico
Of course, out of those 8, Puerto Rico has more in common with New Mexico...
New Mexico isn't an island, Timmay.
;)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 09, 2017, 11:56:20 PM
That sounds like a good recipe to turn the US public against PR statehood and it's not like Trump could force a bill through anyway.
You obviously do it in secret.
Because if there's one thing Trump is good at, it's keeping secrets. :wacko:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
18 minute interview with Ricardo Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/09/statehood-sovereignty-bankrupt-puerto-rico-heads-to-ballot-box-for-status-vote.html
Why did you post that? Do you think anyone here watched it? You didn't even give a summary of anything about the interview, other than it is obnoxiously long.
If they want to be a state, let them come in as a state.
102 Senators would be interesting.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
18 minute interview with Ricardo Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/09/statehood-sovereignty-bankrupt-puerto-rico-heads-to-ballot-box-for-status-vote.html
Why did you post that? Do you think anyone here watched it? You didn't even give a summary of anything about the interview, other than it is obnoxiously long.
I'm here. I watched it. So, yes.
Blah, the GOP will just seize on the low turn out to ignore this.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/amid-historically-low-turnout-puerto-ricans-vote-statehood-n770801
QuoteAs of 7pET, the island's election commission (CEE in Spanish) had reported that about 23 percent of the island's eligible voters had cast ballots, about 500,000 votes. About 97 percent of the votes were for statehood.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
18 minute interview with Ricardo Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico
Dude better change his name to Dick Russel if he wants any respect.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2017, 06:41:44 PM
Blah, the GOP will just seize on the low turn out to ignore this.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/amid-historically-low-turnout-puerto-ricans-vote-statehood-n770801QuoteAs of 7pET, the island's election commission (CEE in Spanish) had reported that about 23 percent of the island's eligible voters had cast ballots, about 500,000 votes. About 97 percent of the votes were for statehood.
97 percent? Ok you would rarely get a vote that unanimous even if we were voting on 'resolved: teddy bears are cuddly'
And why was the turnout so low?
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2017, 10:53:30 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2017, 06:41:44 PM
Blah, the GOP will just seize on the low turn out to ignore this.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/amid-historically-low-turnout-puerto-ricans-vote-statehood-n770801QuoteAs of 7pET, the island's election commission (CEE in Spanish) had reported that about 23 percent of the island's eligible voters had cast ballots, about 500,000 votes. About 97 percent of the votes were for statehood.
97 percent? Ok you would rarely get a vote that unanimous even if we were voting on 'resolved: teddy bears are cuddly'
And why was the turnout so low?
No other elections were happening and the opposition parties boycoted because they knew they'd lose.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2017, 10:56:29 PM
No other elections were happening and the opposition parties boycoted because they knew they'd lose.
That's BS. Let their governor start their Tennessee Plan and let them experience the "no minimum turnout threshold" that the rest of us American citizens get to enjoy.
I agree. Boycotting to de-legitimize elections is a bunch of garbage. Good luck to the PR government in joining the Union.
If they don't give a shit I don't see why we should.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2017, 01:40:56 PM
If they don't give a shit I don't see why we should.
Having territories is un-American. That is why I care. Get rid of them or make them states.
It was never intended to be a permanent thing.
In any case are you really going to let yourself be fooled by these electoral shenanigans? 23% is more than many local elections in the US get and last I checked they all count.
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Having territories is un-American.
The states have had these territories going on for like 120 years now, yes? How long does it have to go on before it's no longer un-American? :D
Ok that's fair :P
Counter to American values then.
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:51:35 PM
Ok that's fair :P
Counter to American values then.
that means less than it did before november last year...
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:23:12 PM
I agree. Boycotting to de-legitimize elections is a bunch of garbage. Good luck to the PR government in joining the Union.
Yeah, dumbasses. Next time just piss your vote away on a third party candidate or some other write-in. You know, like real elections.
I VOTED FOR THE THIRD PARTY STONER CHOICE: CANADIAN PROVINCE
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2017, 03:06:52 PM
Yeah, dumbasses. Next time just piss your vote away on a third party candidate or some other write-in. You know, like real elections.
I VOTED FOR THE THIRD PARTY STONER CHOICE: CANADIAN PROVINCE
:lol: :Canuck:
You could always give it back, you know.
Quote from: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 04:42:56 PM
You could always give it back, you know.
That would be pretty cruel.
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 04:52:17 PM
Quote from: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 04:42:56 PM
You could always give it back, you know.
That would be pretty cruel.
Yeah, Spain's an ally now. Why would we want to do something that terrible to them?
Quote from: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 04:42:56 PM
You could always give it back, you know.
You don't want it. Not even Zidane can save that mess.
Quote from: celedhring on June 12, 2017, 04:42:56 PM
You could always give it back, you know.
They do, I believe, have a small party agitating for rejoining Spain. I don't think they're very popular.
Can we sink the Spanish fleet again?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 11, 2017, 06:40:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 10, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
18 minute interview with Ricardo Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/09/statehood-sovereignty-bankrupt-puerto-rico-heads-to-ballot-box-for-status-vote.html
Why did you post that? Do you think anyone here watched it? You didn't even give a summary of anything about the interview, other than it is obnoxiously long.
I'm here. I watched it. So, yes.
Still No.
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Having territories is un-American. That is why I care. Get rid of them or make them states.
Haven't we always had territories? In the early days I thought the MO was to establish a new territory, flood it with white immigration incentivized through federal subsidies, and then when the white population is significant enough, admit it as a state. The current process seems to be an improvement.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 13, 2017, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Having territories is un-American. That is why I care. Get rid of them or make them states.
Haven't we always had territories? In the early days I thought the MO was to establish a new territory, flood it with white immigration incentivized through federal subsidies, and then when the white population is significant enough, admit it as a state. The current process seems to be an improvement.
Only as a temporary measure. I don't think the intention was there to be areas populated by hundreds of thousands of people subject to US laws that had no say in them. After all we rebelled to protest direct rule from a body we had no representation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/puerto-rico-statehood-plebiscite-congress/530136/
QuotePuerto Rico's Plebiscite to Nowhere
The territory's recent vote in favor of statehood faces long odds in Congress.
Don't start stitching that 51st star on the American flag just yet. Although 97 percent of voters in a Puerto Rico referendum on June 11 voted to start down the path of statehood, the chance of the island becoming a state is still, at best, a long shot.
Optimism was the word of the day among supporters of Puerto Rico statehood after this most recent victory, in this high-profile plebiscite. Among revelers waving American flags Sunday night, Puerto Rico Governor Ricardo Rossello—the leader of the pro-statehood New Progressive Party—echoed sentiments that the referendum's message was clear. "The United States of America will have to obey the will of our people!," he told the crowd.
On the mainland, the jubilation continued to reverberate. In a statement on Monday, Congressman José E. Serrano, who was born in Puerto Rico, celebrated the results of the plebiscite and claimed it as final proof that "Congress has a duty to listen and act upon these results so that Puerto Rico can be decolonized once and for all."
That same day, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer acknowledged the vote as a first step, saying "now that the people have spoken in Puerto Rico, this is something that Congress has to address." To that end, Puerto Rico's nonvoting Resident Commissioner in the House of Representatives, Jenniffer González, is drafting a statehood bill, and statehood advocates have been making the rounds on the Hill this week imploring Congress to move the matter forward.
All that enthusiasm is probably for naught. In reality, Sunday's vote didn't actually signal imminent statehood for Puerto Rico, in spite of the huge margin of victory and insistences from proponents that it would force the issue in Congress. In fact, some observers think the resounding victory of statehood might have actually hurt the long-term prospects of the legislative body finally allowing Puerto Rico fully into the Union. "To make a long story short, the prospects are between zero and negative-10 percent," says Carlos Iván Gorrín Peralta, a professor at the InterAmerican University of Puerto Rico and a territorial-law scholar.
Although proponents of statehood sometimes cast the referendum as an automatic trigger for congressional review, the facts are that Congress is not bound by any aspect of the referendum vote on Sunday, and that Puerto Rico's right to self-determination—while an important theoretical international legal concept and germane to its own territorial constitution—simply does not exist in federal legislative terms. Puerto Rico occupies an uncertain political status, one different from the 37 states added to the original 13 United States by Congress.
"All 37 [entry] processes have followed the scheme set out way back in 1787 in the Northwest Ordinance," says Gorrín. "They were all annexed as part of the United States, designated from that moment to become states eventually." The landmass of the continental United States, as well as the archipelago of Hawaii and the territory of Alaska, were all added to the U.S. with the legal understanding that they would be eligible to become states, which meant that Congress had clear pathways—including the use of referenda and self-determination—for declaring and granting statehood.
But Puerto Rico and the current U.S. territories have no such future statehood understanding. When Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines were added to the country after the 1898 Treaty of Paris ended the Spanish-American War, their status was as colonial possessions, not as future states. In a series of racialist decisions in the Supreme Court known as the Insular Cases, the Court distinguished the Caribbean possessions as "unincorporated" territories that would first have to be incorporated in order to be eligible for statehood. And that itself would require an express determination from Congress.
If that determination were made at some point in the future, Congress might still abide by a slow process of statehood. "Traditionally, Congress has used three political criteria to decide to finally admit a territory," says Gorrín. Those three criteria are the number of people in the territory who want statehood, the embrace of "the fundamental values of American democracy" among the territory's population, and the territory's solvency.
Although the 97 percent pro-statehood vote has been touted as near-unanimous support, turnout for the Puerto Rico referendum was abysmal. Fewer than a quarter of all voters voted at all, after a controversy regarding Department of Justice certification of the ballot questions led to charges of corruption and a mass boycott among opposition parties. As a result, though the margin of victory for statehood was the highest ever, the total number of people who indicated support for the move—somewhere around 500,000 voters—is much lower than previous referenda, where statehood hit a high of 800,000 supporters in 2012. Add Puerto Rico's well-documented financial woes to this ambiguity about the popular support of statehood and the concerns about the validity of the ballot, and it's clear that Sunday's referendum actually displayed mixed results for the criteria used to initiate statehood.
Still, the final hurdle to Puerto Rico statehood is the fact that Congress simply doesn't have to take up the matter at all, even with a referendum in hand. In today's political climate, the Republican-dominated body won't feel any pressure to add an island of millions of likely Democrats to the electorate.
Representative Luis V. Gutiérrez, an Illinois Democrat whose parents migrated to Chicago from Puerto Rico, outlined this dilemma in the language of realpolitik in a statement before the plebiscite. "The supporters of statehood are selling a fantasy that a Latino, Caribbean nation will be admitted as a state during the era of Donald Trump," wrote Gutiérrez. "[Also] that states, many of which supported Trump, will accept a Spanish-speaking state that will receive just as many Senators and maybe even more House seats than they currently have." At the end of the day, it's the cynical calculations of politics in Washington that will determine Puerto Rico's status. And it doesn't appear Sunday's plebiscite changed those much.
What a bunch of anti-democratic imperialist bullshit. The United States disappoints me once again. This kind of shit de-legitimizes everything we supposedly value.
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2017, 10:22:14 AM
What a bunch of anti-democratic imperialist bullshit. The United States disappoints me once again. This kind of shit de-legitimizes everything we supposedly value.
If they want to be a state, they should get to be a state.
However, I don't think it is anti-democratic or imperialist to say, "you can't be a state, you can only be a territory, and if you don't like this arrangement, with a vote you can become independent."
Puerto Rico is substantial enough to be a state, but we have territories that are not.
I'm fine with PR coming in, but not with going to 51 states. So two existing states will be required to merge so we can keep the total at 50.
My first thought proposal would be to combine Connecticut and Rhode Island, or Delaware and Maryland.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 15, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
I'm fine with PR coming in, but not with going to 51 states. So two existing states will be required to merge so we can keep the total at 50.
My first thought proposal would be to combine Connecticut and Rhode Island, or Delaware and Maryland.
OvB, I thought you had the crazy theory that West Virginia should still be a part of Virginia...
Quote from: alfred russel on June 15, 2017, 10:41:14 AM
However, I don't think it is anti-democratic or imperialist to say, "you can't be a state, you can only be a territory, and if you don't like this arrangement, with a vote you can become independent."
I am going to go ahead and disagree with you there. I think that article clearly articulated what I thought territories were supposed to be. The Puerto Ricans clearly think they should have a say here so if this message was delivered it didn't leave much of an impact.
QuotePuerto Rico is substantial enough to be a state, but we have territories that are not.
True. But I am only addressing PR here. Tim has developed several solutions to this problem however and I hope he has been in communication with his representative :P
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 15, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
I'm fine with PR coming in, but not with going to 51 states. So two existing states will be required to merge so we can keep the total at 50.
My first thought proposal would be to combine Connecticut and Rhode Island, or Delaware and Maryland.
Delaware should be reunited with Pennsylvania. 13 colonies my ass.
What about joining the Dakotas? It's not as if there's much people living over there, that way at least it'd go over 1 million population.
Even better: we should merge the Yukon and Northwest Territories into Alaska.
Less territories in the world, and a sparsely populated state will get a few more people.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 15, 2017, 10:56:13 AM
Even better: we should merge the Yukon and Northwest Territories into Alaska.
Less territories in the world, and a sparsely populated state will get a few more people.
Not even Dorsey wants Nunavut. :weep:
Quote from: alfred russel on June 15, 2017, 10:50:15 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 15, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
I'm fine with PR coming in, but not with going to 51 states. So two existing states will be required to merge so we can keep the total at 50.
My first thought proposal would be to combine Connecticut and Rhode Island, or Delaware and Maryland.
OvB, I thought you had the crazy theory that West Virginia should still be a part of Virginia...
That's not a "theory", it's called the U.S. Constitution. Legally the separation of the Western Counties from Virginia was unconstitutional and also undemocratic on top of that. Would I advocate for their merging back today? Not really, but just as a constitutional issue it wasn't proper.
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2017, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 15, 2017, 10:41:14 AM
However, I don't think it is anti-democratic or imperialist to say, "you can't be a state, you can only be a territory, and if you don't like this arrangement, with a vote you can become independent."
I am going to go ahead and disagree with you there. I think that article clearly articulated what I thought territories were supposed to be. The Puerto Ricans clearly think they should have a say here so if this message was delivered it didn't leave much of an impact.
QuotePuerto Rico is substantial enough to be a state, but we have territories that are not.
True. But I am only addressing PR here. Tim has developed several solutions to this problem however and I hope he has been in communication with his representative :P
FWIW, I basically agree with you. I've said for a while that they should have to choose between statehood and independence.
OTOH, I'm not a fan of them choosing statehood only after running their finance into the ground. Make 'em get that in order first.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 15, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
I'm fine with PR coming in, but not with going to 51 states. So two existing states will be required to merge so we can keep the total at 50.
My first thought proposal would be to combine Connecticut and Rhode Island, or Delaware and Maryland.
No way, man. Not to the original 13. Why not the Dakotas going back as one territory? Who the hell needed two of them, anyway?
And fuck you and your political land gifts, Valmy. :P
I still favor PR as some sort of "concentration camp". Might have to come up with a better name.
Or send millinials to Gitmo.
You're so full of shit. You can't hide your Rosario Dawson horseface fetish behind such rabid anti-Ricanism.
What is a "horseface"?
Dawson is lovely imo.
Virginia should reclaim the secessionists in West Virginia.
I expect that the left wing of the democratic party will push this hard if the Dems gain control of both houses in the fall.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/puerto-rico-pushes-for-statehood-calling-it-a-civil-rights-issue/2018/06/27/717c5092-7a43-11e8-93cc-6d3beccdd7a3_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b7d9b1dc224f
QuotePuerto Rico pushes for statehood, calling it a civil rights issue
By Katie Zezima
June 27 at 7:04 PM
Email the author
Puerto Rico is making its biggest push for statehood in years, filing legislation in Congress that would make the island the 51st state by 2021.
Rep. Jenniffer González-Colón (R) filed a bill on Wednesday that would pave the way for the island to become a state no later than January 2021. The measure is co-sponsored by 21 Republicans and 14 Democrats and fulfills the promises of González-Colón and Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló, who campaigned on a statehood platform and said statehood is a civil rights issue for Puerto Ricans.
"No longer do we want ambiguity. No longer do we want this kicked down the road," Rosselló said at a Capitol Hill news conference. "In Congress you're either with us or you're against the people of Puerto Rico."
The aggressive push for statehood comes less than a year after the island was devastated by Hurricane Maria, and residents who feel ignored by the federal government are still in the middle of a humanitarian crisis, wondering if the lights will turn on. The island is also mired in a financial crisis after declaring a form of bankruptcy last year and is under the supervision of an oversight board based in the United States.
Elected officials said making the island a state would help it receive the help it needs and ensure that its residents are no longer treated as second-class citizens by the federal government.
Rep. José E. Serrano (D-N.Y.), who was born in Puerto Rico, said that if it is wasn't clear that "Puerto Rico is in a colonial relationship with the United States, look at what happened after Hurricane Maria . . . they are an afterthought."
Nearly a year after the storm, millions in federal dollars for reconstruction have yet to be allocated; and many islanders still feel disrespected by President Trump, who, during a visit, lobbed paper towels into a crowd of survivors as if he was shooting basketballs.
[Sluggish recovery from Hurricane Maria reignites calls for Puerto Rico's statehood, independence]
Puerto Ricans, Serrano said, deserve "to have the same rights and privileges I have living in New York."
But the drive for statehood has not been wholeheartedly embraced on the island, where it is seen as a stable option that blends both sovereignty and federal support. In a referendum last year, 97 percent of those who voted chose statehood, but just 23 percent of registered voters cast ballots. The vote was viewed as flawed, and opposition parties boycotted.
It was the fifth referendum held on statehood since Puerto Rico was acquired in the Spanish-American War of 1898 and designated a commonwealth. The island's first democratically elected governor, Luis Muñoz Marín, cut a deal with Congress in the 1950s that allowed the island to manage its own finances.
The last three statehood votes have been controversial because the parties in power have been accused of manipulating the language on the ballot. Federico A. de Jesús, principal of FDJ Solutions, a consulting firm, and the former deputy director of the Puerto Rico governor's office in Washington, said last year's referendum was historic because so few people participated, and said the bill is more of something that politicians can say they did rather than reflecting the will of residents.
"Frankly, right now I think folks in Puerto Rico aren't focused on politics, they're focused on whether there's going to be a power outage, whether the traffic lights are working," he said. "Really what we need to do is rebuild the island, and while the control board is managing the island's finances, I don't think the status issue will be resolved until the debt issues are."
The bill calls for the creation of a task force that would recommend which laws to repeal that put Puerto Rico on a different footing than the states, to find temporary economic measures to help Puerto Rico transition to statehood, propose rules and dates for federal elections and study how statehood would affect the U.S. House.
Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens but cannot vote for president. González-Colón is a nonvoting member of Congress. Rosselló appointed members to a statehood commission or "shadow delegation" — three Republicans, three Democrats and one independent — to roam the halls of Congress, asking to be seated and for Puerto Rico to be admitted to the union.
There has been little indication that the bill would pass. Puerto Rico had 3.3 million residents before the hurricane, making its population slightly larger than that of Connecticut, and could give the island seven representatives.
Supporters of the bill said that would finally put the island on equal footing.
"Because Puerto Rico is a territory and not a state, the people of Puerto Rico can be, and are, treated differently," said Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.), who represents a heavily Puerto Rican district in central Florida. "Every member of Congress should care about Puerto Rico, because Puerto Ricans are fellow citizens."
Why would the other wings of the Democratic Party oppose it?
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 08:14:57 PM
Why would the other wings of the Democratic Party oppose it?
I didn't say they'd oppose it. I said the left wing would be the one to push it.