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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 09:38:24 AM

Poll
Question: When will Trump be impeached?
Option 1: Before 2018 votes: 1
Option 2: Before the mid-term congressional elections votes: 6
Option 3: As soon as Democrats regain control of the Senate votes: 5
Option 4: Never votes: 22
Title: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 09:38:24 AM
Lots of folks seems to think Trump will be impeached, but I doubt it very much.  Republicans are all too happy with the current situation.  They have their conservative agenda advancing, Obamacare is likely to be repealed, Trump looks like Pence's puppet (according to a NYT Op-Ed), taxes will be lowered for the very rich, and so on.

I think it's too much of a gamble for them to impeach Trump in the first 2 years.  If it happens, they'd likely prefer the Democrats to run the show and tag along saying he was an outsider and they hated him all along, if the polls are inclined toward this, and if they lost seats at the mid-term elections.

But I admit I don't follow the US that closely, don't really know who's really holding power in the Republican and Democrat parties.

So let's vote in general terms, and indicate in your post when you think it will happen.  The one closest to the real date it happens will be declared Languish King for a Day.  Why King?  Because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to love monarchy :P


EDIT: if a mod wants to edit my poll to change the options, go ahead.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
If Trump is impeached, Pence will be President.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Habbaku on January 30, 2017, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
If Trump is impeached, Pence will be President.

Is there anyone unaware of this?
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 30, 2017, 10:59:38 AM
QuoteAs soon as Democrats regain control of the Senate
Never

Why'd you list Never twice? :huh:
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 30, 2017, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
If Trump is impeached, Pence will be President.

Is there anyone unaware of this?

Viper.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2017, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 30, 2017, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
If Trump is impeached, Pence will be President.

Is there anyone unaware of this?

Not if Pence is impeached first. :shifty:
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Josephus on January 30, 2017, 12:40:00 PM
I think Republicans would prefer Pence in office than Trump.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
I think just about everyone would prefer Pence to Trump, except the die hard morons.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Zanza on January 30, 2017, 12:47:09 PM
Never. He might lose in four years, but they'll not impeach him until then.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Barrister on January 30, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
I think just about everyone would prefer Pence to Trump, except the die hard morons.

"But then Pence would be President" makes me angry.  I was ultimately convinced that opposition to Trump wasn't some ideological test - instead that he was just uniquely unqualified for the office.

Anyone who says Pence would be equally as bad reveals themselves to be opposed to Trump not because of his personal characteristics (which are odious), but because they both have a little (R) beside their name.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: HVC on January 30, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
Besides the twitter tirades would pence have done anything different from trump so far?
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 30, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
I think just about everyone would prefer Pence to Trump, except the die hard morons.

"But then Pence would be President" makes me angry.  I was ultimately convinced that opposition to Trump wasn't some ideological test - instead that he was just uniquely unqualified for the office.

Anyone who says Pence would be equally as bad reveals themselves to be opposed to Trump not because of his personal characteristics (which are odious), but because they both have a little (R) beside their name.

the little r next to Pence makes you blind to all the ways he's just like Trump.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Zanza on January 30, 2017, 01:03:41 PM
So far Pence doesn't have a clear profile in government to me. I cannot see the restraining effect that some expected him to have on Trump. An example would be how he tweeted in 2015 that Trump's Muslim ban was unconstitional and immoral, but now just stood grinning next to Trump when he signed it into action. He was also the head of the transition team and considering the cabinet they picked, he didn't do a good job on that either or was ineffectual in convincing Trump to pick better secretaries. So either he is fully on board the Trump train or he is ineffective and just rubber-stamping Trump. Either way that does not suggest he would be a good president. And that's not even considering his own reactionary religious views on social questions.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 30, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
I think just about everyone would prefer Pence to Trump, except the die hard morons.

"But then Pence would be President" makes me angry.  I was ultimately convinced that opposition to Trump wasn't some ideological test - instead that he was just uniquely unqualified for the office.

Anyone who says Pence would be equally as bad reveals themselves to be opposed to Trump not because of his personal characteristics (which are odious), but because they both have a little (R) beside their name.
Pence is equally as bad because he is the puppet master right now.  It's a conservative republican agenda being pushed right now: isolationism, protectionism, anti-abortion laws (it's just the beginning, wait for the new judge), anti-muslim executive orders and soon an anti-gay agenda, fiscal exemptions&grants for oil producers, etc.

So long as Trump governs that way, he won't be impeached no matter what he does.  If he were to refuse some of Pence's ideas, he might be pushed out.

Who is Mike Pence (http://tinyurl.com/h5rvxjg)
Mike Pence Pulls President Trump's Strings (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/opinion/mike-pence-pulls-president-trumps-strings.html)


I don't think Pence is has bad as Trump can be, because Pence is predictable, but it's not like the US would be in a great spot either with him in command.  Unless you think Iran or Saudi Arabia are model countries.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 30, 2017, 10:59:38 AM
QuoteAs soon as Democrats regain control of the Senate
Never

Why'd you list Never twice? :huh:
I thought the possibility of them regaining the House was nil, but they stood a chance at coming back at the Senate.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2017, 01:21:09 PM
The new judge is replacing Scalia, they're still going to need Kennedy to sign off on any abortion restrictions.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Solmyr on January 30, 2017, 01:36:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
I think just about everyone would prefer Pence to Trump, except the die hard morons.

Well, that's like preferring to die of cancer in a year's time instead of being beaten to death with a chainsaw.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: grumbler on January 30, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
the little r next to Pence makes you blind to all the ways he's just like Trump.

Do tell.  Having family in Indiana, I have been hearing about Pence for years, without ever hearing about "all the ways he's just like Trump" other than having the (R) after his name on the ballot.   Do share with us this knowledge that you alone seem to have.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 30, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 30, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
the little r next to Pence makes you blind to all the ways he's just like Trump.

Do tell.  Having family in Indiana, I have been hearing about Pence for years, without ever hearing about "all the ways he's just like Trump" other than having the (R) after his name on the ballot.   Do share with us this knowledge that you alone seem to have.

Crazy.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: grumbler on January 30, 2017, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 30, 2017, 01:03:41 PM
So far Pence doesn't have a clear profile in government to me. I cannot see the restraining effect that some expected him to have on Trump. An example would be how he tweeted in 2015 that Trump's Muslim ban was unconstitional and immoral, but now just stood grinning next to Trump when he signed it into action. He was also the head of the transition team and considering the cabinet they picked, he didn't do a good job on that either or was ineffectual in convincing Trump to pick better secretaries. So either he is fully on board the Trump train or he is ineffective and just rubber-stamping Trump. Either way that does not suggest he would be a good president. And that's not even considering his own reactionary religious views on social questions.

If not being able to sway Trump disqualifies one for higher office, then Hillary would not make a good president, nor McCain, nor... well, everyone other then Steve Bannon.  is that really your argument;  that Steve Bannon is the person best-qualified to be president?

Pence's willingness to let his religious fundamentalism influence his policy-making is worrisome, but he has worked across the aisle on a number of issues, and is popular with more than fundamentalists.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Zanza on January 30, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
No, that's not my argument.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: grumbler on January 30, 2017, 04:42:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 30, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
No, that's not my argument.

We are all good, then.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: dps on January 30, 2017, 06:08:48 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 01:11:29 PM

Pence is equally as bad because he is the puppet master right now.  It's a conservative republican agenda being pushed right now: isolationism, protectionism, anti-abortion laws (it's just the beginning, wait for the new judge), anti-muslim executive orders and soon an anti-gay agenda, fiscal exemptions&grants for oil producers, etc.

Isolationism hasn't really been a conservative Republican position since before WWII.  Protectionism--well, it's complicated, but there are both free traders and protectionists in both wings of both parties, and it's been that way for a long time.  Anti-Islamic bigotry certainly isn't a historical foundation of conservative Republicanism.  Fiscal exemptions and grants for oil producer, maybe, not sure exactly what you have in mind there, but it could be more cronyism or pork barrel politics than conservatism per se, or it could be an actual example of a traditional conservative pro-business approach.  An anti-abortion and, to a lesser extent, anti-gay agenda I'll agree is a typical conservative Republican stance.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 06:54:47 PM
Pence is a terrible choice for any Republican, because his policies and ideals are Tea Party religious bullshit.

Trump is bad at an entirely different level. Trump is bad because of his character - his badness has little or nothing to do with his stance on policy - in fact, it is the other way around.

Trump would be just as terrible if he was a Democrat, or if his views on policy aligned exactly with my own for that matter - to the extent that is even possible for someone that terrible.

Pence? Pence would be one of the worst possible Republicans I can imagine (Cruz would be worse), and still light years better than Trump.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: 11B4V on January 30, 2017, 08:14:16 PM
He wont
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 08:16:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 30, 2017, 08:14:16 PM
He wont

Yep. Impeaching him would require a Congress that is willing to assert leadership over national affairs.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: DGuller on January 30, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
My latest thinking is that the Congressmen are cowards for the most part, and won't ever pull the trigger.  Trump isn't just a lone fascist, he's a fascist enjoying fervent support from a pretty large block of fascist voters, and I don't see how Trump can discredit himself with those.  Trump also has a penchant for working himself out of a bind when it seems like he's weak and vulnerable.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2017, 08:40:29 PM
Donald Trump is going nowhere.  And he hasn't even begun to get the ball rolling on his Enemies List.  Just wait until he starts siccing the FBI and IRS on people. 
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:43:21 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 30, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
My latest thinking is that the Congressmen are cowards for the most part, and won't ever pull the trigger.  Trump isn't just a lone fascist, he's a fascist enjoying fervent support from a pretty large block of fascist voters, and I don't see how Trump can discredit himself with those.  Trump also has a penchant for working himself out of a bind when it seems like he's weak and vulnerable.

Dammit DG, every country that you live in goes fascist.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: DGuller on January 30, 2017, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:43:21 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 30, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
My latest thinking is that the Congressmen are cowards for the most part, and won't ever pull the trigger.  Trump isn't just a lone fascist, he's a fascist enjoying fervent support from a pretty large block of fascist voters, and I don't see how Trump can discredit himself with those.  Trump also has a penchant for working himself out of a bind when it seems like he's weak and vulnerable.

Dammit DG, every country that you live in goes fascist.
:blush: Thank you, but it's a team effort.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Ed Anger on January 30, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
That is why he's getting all those coded Russian spam messages. DG is learning where the drop boxes are.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: mongers on January 30, 2017, 08:51:57 PM
Nope, you guys are going to have to endure a full four years of this unreality.

Made worse by the our trolls.
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2017, 10:38:35 AM
Trump impeachment odds: 11:10.
https://www.inverse.com/article/26292-donald-trump-impeachment-odds
Title: Re: The Trump impeachment poll/pool
Post by: Monoriu on January 31, 2017, 03:59:40 PM
Never.