RIP.
RIP.
Damn, famous people are dropping like flies. Soon we'll have to start "Joe Blow is still alive" threads.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :weep:
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2009, 10:11:32 AM
Damn, famous people are dropping like flies. Soon we'll have to start "Joe Blow is still alive" threads.
:blink: Seriously. Seems like Ed and Farrah started an avalanche. :unsure:
:(
RIP. :(
Though I thought he died several years ago for some reason. :huh:
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2009, 10:11:32 AM
Damn, famous people are dropping like flies. Soon we'll have to start "Joe Blow is still alive" threads.
http://www.abevigoda.com/ffb.php
I liked Fog of War. But he sounded like a pompous ass.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 06, 2009, 12:35:48 PM
I liked Fog of War. But he sounded like a pompous ass.
meh. and he still declined to admit he made big mistakes.
no statues for him.
He did good work in the car industry though.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 06, 2009, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 06, 2009, 12:35:48 PM
I liked Fog of War. But he sounded like a pompous ass.
meh. and he still declined to admit he made big mistakes.
:huh:
http://www.legacy.com/WashingtonPost/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonID=129358811
Quote"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of our country. But we were wrong. We were terribly wrong," McNamara, then 78, told The Associated Press in an interview ahead of the book's release.
[...]
McNamara wrote that he and others had not asked the five most basic questions: "Was it true that the fall of South Vietnam would trigger the fall of all Southeast Asia? Would that constitute a grave threat to the West's security? What kind of war — conventional or guerrilla — might develop? Could we win it with U.S. troops fighting alongside the South Vietnamese? Should we not know the answers to all these questions before deciding whether to commit troops?
Rest in peace, architect.
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2009, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 06, 2009, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 06, 2009, 12:35:48 PM
I liked Fog of War. But he sounded like a pompous ass.
meh. and he still declined to admit he made big mistakes.
:huh:
http://www.legacy.com/WashingtonPost/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonID=129358811
Quote"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of our country. But we were wrong. We were terribly wrong," McNamara, then 78, told The Associated Press in an interview ahead of the book's release.
[...]
McNamara wrote that he and others had not asked the five most basic questions: "Was it true that the fall of South Vietnam would trigger the fall of all Southeast Asia? Would that constitute a grave threat to the West's security? What kind of war — conventional or guerrilla — might develop? Could we win it with U.S. troops fighting alongside the South Vietnamese? Should we not know the answers to all these questions before deciding whether to commit troops?
OK, it's good he finally copped to it.
I saw Fog Of War, and I thought he spent more time defending his atrocious record. "Yes, I was wrong, but really, I was kinda right!"
I think he was apologising more for failing.
Yeah, I am with sask.
Still, RIP.
Well, that's a body count of one he can definitely rely upon as accurate.
RIP and a big fuck you, RANDboy.
:(
Loved him, will miss him.
A shame to see someone of that era go. There can't be many of them left anymore. That said, the refusal (and that of his superiors) to take a hard line in conducting the Vietnam War was regretable, and will always stain his record.
I think his silence didn't do him any good, but what can you do?
Still, there is that tape of his conversation with Kennedy in which he insists that a US troop withdrawal timeline must be issued very soon. This was in 1963.
He certainly fucked up a lot of things, but his motivations were not evil or venal. He honestly did believe that the US and USSR were on a hair-trigger (and he knew that Polaris did not work), so he operated out of fear and with a desire to minimize the chances of a nuclear war.
His over-reliance on technology bit him in the ass many, many times, and his arrogance and control-freak nature meant his subordinates feared to tell him when things went wrong. Still, not a criminal, just flawed.
Well the flexible response was a good doctrine. We could have depopulated most of central Europe. That would have been win-win.
Quote from: Neil on July 06, 2009, 07:27:54 PM
A shame to see someone of that era go. There can't be many of them left anymore.
Kissinger is still alive. According to a documentary from a few years back he regularly meets with personal friend and former chancellor Helmut Schmidt.