Poll
Question:
What will happen re: registration of Muslims in the US during Trump's presidency
Option 1: It will briefly be "thought about" and "discussed" once only to disappear and never be mentioned again.
votes: 14
Option 2: It will regularly be "thought about" and "discussed" to fire up the base, but nothing will happen.
votes: 11
Option 3: Actual policy proposals will be proposed and the legislative process will start, but in the end it will amount to nothing.
votes: 3
Option 4: A law will be passed or executive order issued to enable registration (voluntary or not) of at least a subset of Muslims, but the courts will ultimately block it without anyone having to register.
votes: 1
Option 5: There will be a legal requirement for at least a subset of Muslims to register for an ongoing period, whether or not it survives court challenges.
votes: 2
Just saw a report that Trump and his team are "mulling over" the Muslim registry. What do you think will happen on this issue during the Trump presidency. Stake your claims now gentlemen.
Yet another campaign promise that will be dropped like a hot potato.
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 16, 2016, 01:00:50 PM
Yet another campaign promise that will be dropped like a hot potato.
Yip
Here's the current story: https://www.yahoo.com/news/immigration-hardliner-says-trump-team-preparing-plans-wall-015354176.html
QuoteAn architect of anti-immigration efforts who says he is advising President-elect Donald Trump said the new administration could push ahead rapidly on construction of a U.S.-Mexico border wall without seeking immediate congressional approval.
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump's policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries.
Kobach, who media reports say is a key member of Trump's transition team, said he had participated in regular conference calls with about a dozen Trump immigration advisers for the past two to three months.
Trump's transition team did not respond to requests for confirmation of Kobach's role. The president-elect has not committed to following any specific recommendations from advisory groups.
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 16, 2016, 01:00:50 PM
Yet another campaign promise that will be dropped like a hot potato.
Yep. He'll find a way to blame the Democrats or the Supreme Court or something.
This particular genius doesn't seem to know the basics of federal appropriations (perhaps like our new President he tired of reading the constitution before reaching Article I), so I wouldn't put a ton of weight on his account.
Yeah, you're missing an option for "never mentioned at all". Trump even in the campaign backed off on a "muslim ban", instead limiting it to people from countries where terrorism 'is a problem'.
Besides, what is mentioned in the article is a lot less extreme than a "Muslim registry":
QuoteTo implement Trump's call for "extreme vetting" of some Muslim immigrants, Kobach said the immigration policy group could recommend the reinstatement of a national registry of immigrants and visitors who enter the United States on visas from countries where extremist organizations are active.
Kobach helped design the program, known as the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, while serving in Republican President George W. Bush's Department of Justice after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States by al Qaeda militants.
Under NSEERS, people from countries deemed "higher risk" were required to undergo interrogations and fingerprinting on entering the United States. Some non-citizen male U.S. residents over the age of 16 from countries with active militant threats were required to register in person at government offices and periodically check in.
So Trump proposes bringing back a program that had existed for several years until it was discontinued in 2011 as being redundant. So it's probably not a useful idea, but probably not a massive violation of people's rights.
Quote from: Caliga on November 16, 2016, 01:07:51 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 16, 2016, 01:00:50 PM
Yet another campaign promise that will be dropped like a hot potato.
Yep. He'll find a way to blame the Democrats or the Supreme Court or something.
This is Trump. He doesn't need excuses. He'll just pretend he never promised any such thing.
As I understand it the muslim immigration ban / ban on immigration from terrorist countries has disappeared from his transition team website.
I don't see how difficult it would be to register them anyway; they're all at work, at school, paying taxes. You know, like regular Americans.
One thing I hadn't realised until recently was the level of deportations under Obama :
http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2015/02/25/tracking-obamas-deportation-numbers/
If Trump isn't careful he might manage to deport fewer people :P
.............and, of course, immigrants from problematic countries tend to undergo vetting already.
.........and there is already, also, a great big fence for much of the border with Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier
:hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2016, 01:10:59 PM
Yeah, you're missing an option for "never mentioned at all". Trump even in the campaign backed off on a "muslim ban", instead limiting it to people from countries where terrorism 'is a problem'.
I beleive he said "problematic countries". If they happen to exclusively be countries were muslim are the majority, it's simply a coincidence.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 16, 2016, 01:30:57 PM
One thing I hadn't realised until recently was the level of deportations under Obama :
http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2015/02/25/tracking-obamas-deportation-numbers/
If Trump isn't careful he might manage to deport fewer people :P
No joke there- is he is at all serious about the federal hiring freeze it's very unlikely he'll hit those numbers.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 16, 2016, 01:30:57 PM
One thing I hadn't realised until recently was the level of deportations under Obama :
http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2015/02/25/tracking-obamas-deportation-numbers/
If Trump isn't careful he might manage to deport fewer people :P
No joke there- is he is at all serious about the federal hiring freeze it's very unlikely he'll hit those numbers.
I'm only laughing because it is preferable to crying.
It wouldn't be bad if Trump pushed for something both extreme and really bad to start off, just to destroy any honeymoon and effectively nullify his control of congress (vulnerable members may be registered GOP, but will be reluctant to follow a deeply unpopular president).
But I am not sure Muslim registration or immigration bans would be viewed by the public as such.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
No joke there- is he is at all serious about the federal hiring freeze it's very unlikely he'll hit those numbers.
The agency I am at had their leadership Come To Jesus meeting with the Big Cheeses on Monday AM: come Inauguration Day, immediate hiring freeze across the entire USG except for defense, public safety and public health--just like the Trump campaign said.
What the campaign didn't say is that it is planned for four years.
Interesting poll topic, though Jacob seems to have missed out one option. :hmm:
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
Interesting poll topic, though Jacob seems to have missed out one option. :hmm:
Which option?
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2016, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
Interesting poll topic, though Jacob seems to have missed out one option. :hmm:
Which option?
One saying the majority or all Muslims will be force to register.
Not saying it's likely, that Trump would stick to his campaign boast, but you never know, do we?
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2016, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
Interesting poll topic, though Jacob seems to have missed out one option. :hmm:
Which option?
The Jaron option saying the majority or all Muslims will be forced to register by Jaron.
Not saying it's likely, that Trump would stick to his campaign boast, but you never know, do we?
Fixed! :)
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 03:22:11 PM
One saying the majority or all Muslims will be force to register.
Not saying it's likely, that Trump would stick to his campaign boast, but you never know, do we?
It's kind of encapsulated in the last one.
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2016, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 16, 2016, 03:22:11 PM
One saying the majority or all Muslims will be force to register.
Not saying it's likely, that Trump would stick to his campaign boast, but you never know, do we?
It's kind of encapsulated in the last one.
Not really, given we've now entered the long run, all option could be on the table?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 16, 2016, 02:47:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
No joke there- is he is at all serious about the federal hiring freeze it's very unlikely he'll hit those numbers.
The agency I am at had their leadership Come To Jesus meeting with the Big Cheeses on Monday AM: come Inauguration Day, immediate hiring freeze across the entire USG except for defense, public safety and public health--just like the Trump campaign said.
What the campaign didn't say is that it is planned for four years.
They need to. Too many GS15 in nitnoid jobs.
Idiotic idea. Hopefully this will be dropped like a hot potato - if Trump is to show himself not to be a total disgraceful joke, he will do it.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 04:04:42 PM
Idiotic idea. Hopefully this will be dropped like a hot potato - if Trump is to show himself not to be a total disgraceful joke, he will do it.
Legally how will be do it?
Quote from: 11B4V on November 16, 2016, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 04:04:42 PM
Idiotic idea. Hopefully this will be dropped like a hot potato - if Trump is to show himself not to be a total disgraceful joke, he will do it.
Legally how will be do it?
No clue - I am not a US lawyer. I just think, politically, it's going to be his suicide (and rightly so). I was hoping for him to become more moderate following his election - sadly, it seems the people around him are too much of a nasty influence on him.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 16, 2016, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 04:04:42 PM
Idiotic idea. Hopefully this will be dropped like a hot potato - if Trump is to show himself not to be a total disgraceful joke, he will do it.
Legally how will be do it?
No clue - I am not a US lawyer. I just think, politically, it's going to be his suicide (and rightly so). I was hoping for him to become more moderate following his election - sadly, it seems the people around him are too much of a nasty influence on him.
This will be dropped if it already hasn't been.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 16, 2016, 03:40:36 PM
They need to. Too many GS15 in nitnoid jobs.
Concur; but that really means eliminating the federal firing freeze, not instituting a federal hiring freeze. :P
There's already a dormant Muslim registry; it was enacted under Bush, and Obama discontinued it in 2011 after years of pressure from civil rights groups. Reactivating it is no big deal, legally.
Quote from: Scipio on November 16, 2016, 04:36:23 PM
There's already a dormant Muslim registry; it was enacted under Bush, and Obama discontinued it in 2011 after years of pressure from civil rights groups. Reactivating it is no big deal, legally.
\\
and that's exactly what this guy was talking about - Kobach (the source on this story) helped implement that registry under Bush.
So registering guns is a gross violation of the Constitution but registering people is legally OK? Stupid Bill of Rights protections.
AFAICT that old registry only applied to non-citizen Muslims deemed high-risk.
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 16, 2016, 01:00:50 PM
Yet another campaign promise that will be dropped like a hot potato.
The Trumpminator never promised a muslim registry.
Close your fuckin trap and swallow.
Quote from: Valmy on November 16, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
So registering guns is a gross violation of the Constitution but registering people is legally OK? Stupid Bill of Rights protections.
Do I really need to roll my eyes?
You need to worry more about what's going to go down when you start rolling that matzoh dough without papers.
Money, when the time comes, Siegebreaker will think they're naming him sheriff.
Siegebreaker: Well Spoiler, Renegade Jew
Quote from: Ideologue on November 16, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
Money, when the time comes, Siegebreaker will think they're naming him sheriff.
Dumbass doesn't realize that Trump's going to come after
all the Gold Star families.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 16, 2016, 07:36:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 16, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
Money, when the time comes, Siegebreaker will think they're naming him sheriff.
Dumbass doesn't realize that Trump's going to come after all the Gold Star families.
:XD:
Seedy's on fire tonight!