Strike one more for the ™Religion of peace™
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Convicted terrorist stabs commander to death outside home in Mangnaville before taking partner and son hostage
French police commander and spouse killed in possible Isis-linked attack – video
President François Hollande has convened crisis talks after a man convicted for terrorist offences and claiming allegiance to the Islamic State stabbed a French police commander to death in front of his house outside Paris, then killed his partner who also worked for the police.
The 42-year-old police commander was in plain clothes when he was stabbed to death as he arrived home at around 8.30pm on Monday night in a quiet residential area of Magnanville, north-west of Paris.
The attacker then entered the house and held hostage the commander's partner – who also worked in the local police administration – and the couple's three-year-old son.
Hollande called it "incontestably a terrorist act" and said France was facing a terror threat "of a very large scale".
Elite police squads rushed to the scene, sealed off the neighbourhood, cut electricity and negotiated with the attacker who told them he was a soldier for Isis and had sworn allegiance to the group.
Shortly afterwards loud detonations were heard as police stormed the house and killed the assailant. They found the woman dead and rescued the couple's son alive.
The attacker was identified by Le Monde and RMC radio as Larossi Abballa, 25, who was known to police for radicalism and already had a terrorism conviction.
He had been sentenced to three years in prison, six months suspended, in 2013 for "criminal association in view to preparing terrorist attacks" over his role in a recruitment network of jihadists linked to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
French media reported Abballa had recently been under close police surveillance as he had featured in the entourage of another man who had left for Syria.
The French journalist and jihadhist expert, David Thomson, reported that Abballa had used Facebook live to post images of the attack — a video which is being examined by police. Thomson reported that while the attacker filmed himself, the three-year-old boy was behind him on the sofa. The attacker said "I don't know yet what I'm going to do with him."
The attacker lived alone in nearby Mantes-la-Jolie, where the woman worked in the local police station and where the police commander had previously worked before being posted to nearby Mureaux.
The police officer who died was named in the French media as Jean-Baptiste Salvaing, 42, described as an assistant chief in the nearby district of Les Mureaux. He was reported to have been wearing civilian clothes at the time.
Magnanville is about 35 miles north-west of Paris.
"The toll is a heavy one," interior ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet told reporters at the scene. "This commander, this police officer was killed by the individual ... [and] we discovered the body of a woman. The assailant, the criminal, was killed. Thankfully a little boy was saved. He was in the house. He's safe and sound. He was saved by police officers."
Islamic State appeared to claim the attack through its news agency. The Site Intelligence Group, a US-based monitor, cited the Isis-linked Amaq News Agency as saying on its Telegram channels shortly afer the attack: "Islamic State fighter kills deputy chief of the police station in the city of Les Mureaux and his wife with blade weapons near Paris."
A prosecutor said the three-year-old boy was "in shock but unharmed" and receiving medical attention.
The prime minister, Manuel Valls, tweeted that "a couple of police officers had been savagely assassinated". He added: "Refuse fear, fight terrorism."
The French interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, called it "an abject terrorist attack" and expressed his "infinite sadness" at the killings.
He said in a statement: "The attacker was neutralised by Raid forces, who showed great composure and great professionalism and who saved the couple's little boy. The inquiry opened by the justice authorities will establish the precise circumstances of this tragedy."
The killing in France came a day after a gunman claiming to be acting in the name of Isis shot dead 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, in the worst mass shooting in US history.
At the same time, France is hosting the Euro 2016 football tournament under tight security. The country is still reeling from the November 2015 jihadist attacks in Paris that left 130 people dead.
Police officers were known to be potential target of jihadist terrorism in France, after two officers were killed in the attacks of January 2015. One officer, Ahmed Merabet, was shot dead by the French Kouachi brothers as they fled Charlie Hebdo magazine after opening fire on an editorial meeting.
Another police officer, Clarissa Jean-Philippe, was shot in the street the following day by their accomplice Amedy Coulibaly before he later took hostages at a Paris kosher supermarket, killing four.
Earlier this year police shot dead a man who tried to enter a Paris police station brandishing a butcher's knife and wearing a fake suicide vest on the one-year anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo attack.
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Just after the Charlie Hebdo and kosher supermarket attacks in January 2015, police raided a terror cell in Verviers in Belgium to foil an imminent attack in which prosecutors said jihadists aimed "to kill police officers on public roads and in police offices,"
The Verviers terror cell was part of a broader French-Belgian jihadist network with links to those involved in the later terror attacks in Paris in November 2015 and Brussels in March.
But targeting police officers at their home, as happened in the Magnanville attack, would be a new type of attack.
In 2014, French police shot dead a knife-wielding man who attacked three officers in a police station while shouting "Allahu Akbar". The man, known to police for petty crime, wounded one officer's face at the entrance to the police station in Joue-les-Tours near the central city of Tours and injured two others before he was killed. The investigation was led by anti-terror police.
In 2012, the radicalised 23-year-old panel-beater Mohammed Merah, who went on to kill three schoolchildren and a rabbi outside a Jewish school in Toulouse, began his killing spree by targetting soldiers.
He first killed an off-duty paratrooper who had arranged to meet someone about selling a motorbike, then killed two uniformed soldiers in Montauban, injuring a third. Days later, he targeted the Jewish school before being killed after a 32-hour siege at his flat.
Woman dead too, such a "brave" shahid. :rolleyes:
ps: added the whole Grauniad article
Apologist cucks arriving in 3. 2. 1.
Fuckin' hell! :wacko: :(
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
I just can't see how going 1600s Spain on Western muslim populations would do anything but exacerbate the problem. Besides being unjust for all the millions of peaceful muslims that live in our midst.
That's the card ISIS and the likes want us to play.
Quote from: Martinus on June 14, 2016, 04:01:20 AM
Apologist cucks arriving in 3. 2. 1.
Could you fucking learn English?
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:02:18 AM
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
I just can't see how going 1600s Spain on Western muslim populations would do anything but exacerbate the problem. Besides being unjust for all the millions of peaceful muslims that live in our midst.
That's the card ISIS and the likes want us to play.
Oh fuck off. We have already discussed this to death in the Orlando thread. This is not about violent vs. "peaceful" Muslims. The majority of "peaceful" Muslims believe homosexuality is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be illegal; that apostasy should be a crime; and that women are second class citizens.
We don't need them here. We don't want them here. And slowly but surely majority of Europeans start to agree.
Quote from: Martinus on June 14, 2016, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:02:18 AM
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
I just can't see how going 1600s Spain on Western muslim populations would do anything but exacerbate the problem. Besides being unjust for all the millions of peaceful muslims that live in our midst.
That's the card ISIS and the likes want us to play.
Oh fuck off. We have already discussed this to death in the Orlando thread. This is not about violent vs. "peaceful" Muslims. The majority of "peaceful" Muslims believe homosexuality is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be illegal; that apostasy should be a crime; and that women are second class citizens.
We don't need them here. We don't want them here. And slowly but surely majority of Europeans start to agree.
Wasn't aware homophobia and women discrimination were exclusive to Islam. Should I kick the Spanish religious nutters too? Of course not, because they aren't violent. I can only attempt to convince them than they are wrong. And the same goes for muslims that don't blow up night clubs or shoot cops.
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:25:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 14, 2016, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:02:18 AM
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
I just can't see how going 1600s Spain on Western muslim populations would do anything but exacerbate the problem. Besides being unjust for all the millions of peaceful muslims that live in our midst.
That's the card ISIS and the likes want us to play.
Oh fuck off. We have already discussed this to death in the Orlando thread. This is not about violent vs. "peaceful" Muslims. The majority of "peaceful" Muslims believe homosexuality is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be illegal; that apostasy should be a crime; and that women are second class citizens.
We don't need them here. We don't want them here. And slowly but surely majority of Europeans start to agree.
Wasn't aware homophobia and women discrimination were exclusive to Islam. Should I kick the Spanish religious nutters too? Of course not, because they aren't violent. I can only attempt to convince them than they are wrong. And the same goes for muslims that don't blow up night clubs or shoot cops.
This was a stabbing.
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 05:27:23 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:25:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 14, 2016, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 14, 2016, 05:02:18 AM
Quote from: Jaron on June 14, 2016, 04:45:19 AM
The best response to these types of attacks is to not let it change us. We cannot allow ISIS and radical Islam to cause us to change our attitudes towards main stream Muslims. If they change us, they win.
I just can't see how going 1600s Spain on Western muslim populations would do anything but exacerbate the problem. Besides being unjust for all the millions of peaceful muslims that live in our midst.
That's the card ISIS and the likes want us to play.
Oh fuck off. We have already discussed this to death in the Orlando thread. This is not about violent vs. "peaceful" Muslims. The majority of "peaceful" Muslims believe homosexuality is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be illegal; that apostasy should be a crime; and that women are second class citizens.
We don't need them here. We don't want them here. And slowly but surely majority of Europeans start to agree.
Wasn't aware homophobia and women discrimination were exclusive to Islam. Should I kick the Spanish religious nutters too? Of course not, because they aren't violent. I can only attempt to convince them than they are wrong. And the same goes for muslims that don't blow up night clubs or shoot cops.
This was a stabbing.
And the night club wasn't blown up, I was being purposely generic
It's about simple empirical evidence in front of us. Homosexuality is punishable by death in 11 countries. Every single one of them is Muslim. Only a blind idiot could claim that "all religions are equally bad". Islam is an evil insidious ideology - we cannot stamp it out but we can keep it out of our borders.
Quote from: Martinus on June 14, 2016, 05:32:15 AM
It's about simple empirical evidence in front of us. Homosexuality is punishable by death in 11 countries. Every single one of them is Muslim. Only a blind idiot could claim that "all religions are equally bad". Islam is an evil insidious ideology - we cannot stamp it out but we can keep it out of our borders.
Uhm, it appears that this police chief and his partner were a heterosexual couple. I don't see a gay angle in this particular attack.
I was responding to celed's earlier claim that homophobia is not exclusive to Islam.
Imperialist heterosexist toxic masculinity strikes again.
ISIS has had quite a couple days.
apparently the guy had a list with targets.
----
poor kid, hopefully there won't be memories. Unlikely though
The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 14, 2016, 08:16:44 AM
The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.
they lost there. <_<
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 14, 2016, 08:28:59 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 14, 2016, 08:16:44 AM
The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.
they lost there. <_<
Not in France, take the fight to them.
He tortured the wife to death with a knife in front of the child while live-streaming it over Facebook.
Quote from: Legbiter on June 14, 2016, 02:42:09 PM
He tortured the wife to death with a knife in front of the child while live-streaming it over Facebook.
It will be a surprise if the kid does not grow up to be the next Dexter. Hopefully he will focus on imams.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 14, 2016, 03:58:24 AM
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He had been sentenced to three years in prison, six months suspended, in 2013 for "criminal association in view to preparing terrorist attacks" over his role in a recruitment network of jihadists linked to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
As everyone knows, I'm very far from a "get tough on crime," "lock 'em up and throw away the key," kind of guy. And I generally think European sentencing and incarceration practices have a lot to teach the US.
But in 2013, getting off with a 2-1⁄2 year prison sentence (and probably being released after serving 15 months if it was his first offense) for recruiting jihadists just seems insane.
[N.B. I do know a little bit about French sentencing and parole, but not about how time off for good behavior works, or whether "recidivism" under French penal law means simply having a prior conviction or having served a prior prison sentence.]
I think in some ways custodial sentences serve a counterproductive role, since there doesn't seem to be a better recruitment ground for radicalization than prison. Wasn't Amedy Coulibaby pretty much a non-religious convict who was converted to violent Islamism while serving out a robbery sentence?
So I think keeping people out of prison, even people on the fringes of terror networks, is for the best. But for those with terrorism convictions that can't be kept out of prison, I think the main sentencing principle should be incapacitation and the removal of their influence from wider society -- it's certainly isn't serving the end of rehabilitation and I question the deterrence value.
If you want to put someone away, you should really convict them of offenses serious enough to warrant an incapacitating sentence: if not enough for a French life sentence, which would mean at least 22 years actually served (if not 30 years with the "safety period," if not longer under the 2008 law), then perhaps enough for a sentence like "20 years, 5 suspended," which would ensure 10 years spent in prison (if conditional release is obtained right at the ⅔ mark), and then a long time spent "on paper" as we say, reporting to a parole officer and being closely monitored, with the suspended 5 years hanging around to be served if there's a new conviction post-release.
I understand the main terrorism conspiracy charge carries 10 years but that the police, at least, complain that most people only serve about half of that, due to "good time" as we say (and I don't know how many days are credited per month for good behavior in French prisons). A sentence amounting to five or so years, or the shorter one above, is really the worst of both worlds, as it subjects the person to prison conditions for a significant length of time, but ensures that they'll be back on the streets quite soon.
With lesser terrorism-related convictions, I suppose that if some kind of incarceration is required for punitive reasons, it ought to be as short as possible but carry a long "tail" of follow-up supervision for a court-mandated term; such a conviction would also seem to be a good reason for informal observation by police, post-sentence.
Again, not to break with my anti-incarceration stance, but I also think that there are solid grounds for treating repeat terrorism-related offenders substantially more harshly, depending on the nature of the activity, on their second or third conviction even if for lesser charges, while I generally oppose the enhancements given to repeat theft or drug offenders (common in the US).
I think a "habitual offender" of terrorism laws differs significantly from a "habitual offender" of most criminal law, since it indicates a continued willingness to put a violent ideology into action, rather just a general opportunism or substance addiction.
But again, putting someone in prison for a year or two or five to punish them for terrorist offenses, even a second offense where they got off lightly last time, and then releasing them with the hope that they somehow "learned their lesson" through their prison stay is acting in accordance with a dangerous fantasy, not the realities of prison life or human behavior.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 17, 2016, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 14, 2016, 03:58:24 AM
He had been sentenced to three years in prison, six months suspended, in 2013 for "criminal association in view to preparing terrorist attacks" over his role in a recruitment network of jihadists linked to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
[N.B. I do know a little bit about French sentencing and parole, but not about how time off for good behavior works, or whether "recidivism" under French penal law means simply having a prior conviction or having served a prior prison sentence.]
According to Wiki (sorry), qualified
recidive has to be a misdemeanor/délit or felony/crime close or identical to the first law violation. Having served time does not make a difference. One can be convicted yet serve not time or very little, which is troubling for terrorism offences as you noted.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9cidive_(droit_fran%C3%A7ais) (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9cidive_(droit_fran%C3%A7ais))
The previous justice minister, Taubira, has a very bad record and was seen as soft on crime and refused building more prisons. French prisons are overcrowded, contrary to the European trend.
Lots of "automatic" time off too.
I wish more leftie types like you had a more realistic position on this.
I am not an expert in French penal law so this would have to be confirmed. If one gets under 5 years of jail time, one is unlikely to stay in prison or long or even do some jail time.
PS: from what I've read so far the murderer was somewhat protected by the other convicts who claimed he was a minor figure in the recruiting network.