French police chief and partner killed in stabbing claimed by Isis

[11B4V]

The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.

they lost there.

[11B4V]

The Frenchies need to go all Algiers on that ass.

they lost there.

Not in France, take the fight to them.

[Legbiter]

He tortured the wife to death with a knife in front of the child while live-streaming it over Facebook.

[Martinus]

He tortured the wife to death with a knife in front of the child while live-streaming it over Facebook.

It will be a surprise if the kid does not grow up to be the next Dexter. Hopefully he will focus on imams.

[Capetan Mihali]

He had been sentenced to three years in prison, six months suspended, in 2013 for "criminal association in view to preparing terrorist attacks" over his role in a recruitment network of jihadists linked to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

As everyone knows, I'm very far from a "get tough on crime," "lock 'em up and throw away the key," kind of guy.  And I generally think European sentencing and incarceration practices have a lot to teach the US.

But in 2013, getting off with a 2-1⁄2 year prison sentence (and probably being released after serving 15 months if it was his first offense) for recruiting jihadists just seems insane. 

[N.B. I do know a little bit about French sentencing and parole, but not about how time off for good behavior works, or whether "recidivism" under French penal law means simply having a prior conviction or having served a prior prison sentence.]

I think in some ways custodial sentences serve a counterproductive role, since there doesn't seem to be a better recruitment ground for radicalization than prison.  Wasn't Amedy Coulibaby pretty much a non-religious convict who was converted to violent Islamism while serving out a robbery sentence?

So I think keeping people out of prison, even people on the fringes of terror networks, is for the best.  But for those with terrorism convictions that can't be kept out of prison, I think the main sentencing principle should be incapacitation and the removal of their influence from wider society -- it's certainly isn't serving the end of rehabilitation and I question the deterrence value. 

If you want to put someone away, you should really convict them of offenses serious enough to warrant an incapacitating sentence: if not enough for a French life sentence, which would mean at least 22 years actually served (if not 30 years with the "safety period," if not longer under the 2008 law), then perhaps enough for a sentence like "20 years, 5 suspended," which would ensure 10 years spent in prison (if conditional release is obtained right at the ⅔ mark), and then a long time spent "on paper" as we say, reporting to a parole officer and being closely monitored, with the suspended 5 years hanging around to be served if there's a new conviction post-release.

I understand the main terrorism conspiracy charge carries 10 years but that the police, at least, complain that most people only serve about half of that, due to "good time" as we say (and I don't know how many days are credited per month for good behavior in French prisons).  A sentence amounting to five or so years, or the shorter one above, is really the worst of both worlds, as it subjects the person to prison conditions for a significant length of time, but ensures that they'll be back on the streets quite soon.

With lesser terrorism-related convictions, I suppose that if some kind of incarceration is required for punitive reasons, it ought to be as short as possible but carry a long "tail" of follow-up supervision for a court-mandated term; such a conviction would also seem to be a good reason for informal observation by police, post-sentence.

Again, not to break with my anti-incarceration stance, but I also think that there are solid grounds for treating repeat terrorism-related offenders substantially more harshly, depending on the nature of the activity, on their second or third conviction even if for lesser charges, while I generally oppose the enhancements given to repeat theft or drug offenders (common in the US). 

I think a "habitual offender" of terrorism laws differs significantly from a "habitual offender" of most criminal law, since it indicates a continued willingness to put a violent ideology into action, rather just a general opportunism or substance addiction.

But again, putting someone in prison for a year or two or five to punish them for terrorist offenses, even a second offense where they got off lightly last time, and then releasing them with the hope that they somehow "learned their lesson" through their prison stay is acting in accordance with a dangerous fantasy, not the realities of prison life or human behavior.

[Duque de Bragança]

He had been sentenced to three years in prison, six months suspended, in 2013 for "criminal association in view to preparing terrorist attacks" over his role in a recruitment network of jihadists linked to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[N.B. I do know a little bit about French sentencing and parole, but not about how time off for good behavior works, or whether "recidivism" under French penal law means simply having a prior conviction or having served a prior prison sentence.]

According to Wiki (sorry), qualified recidive has to be a misdemeanor/délit or felony/crime close or identical to the first law violation. Having served time does not make a difference. One can be convicted yet serve not time or very little, which is troubling for terrorism offences as you noted.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9cidive_(droit_fran%C3%A7ais)

The previous justice minister, Taubira, has a very bad record and was seen as soft on crime and refused building more prisons. French prisons are overcrowded, contrary to the European trend.
Lots of "automatic" time off too.

I wish more leftie types like you had a more realistic position on this.

I am not an expert in French penal law so this would have to be confirmed. If one gets under 5 years of jail time, one is unlikely to stay in prison or long or even do some jail time.

PS: from what I've read so far the murderer was somewhat protected by the other convicts who claimed he was a minor figure in the recruiting network.