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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on May 03, 2016, 11:04:08 PM

Title: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 03, 2016, 11:04:08 PM
I wonder what BarristerBoy's reaction will be?  :ph34r:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/italian-court-rules-stealing-food-not-crime-if-you-re-n567141

QuoteItalian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry

by Erik Ortiz

In an act of desperation, a homeless man living in Italy pocketed sausage and cheese — worth the equivalent of $4.71 — from a supermarket where he was buying breadsticks.

Ukrainian national Roman Ostriakov was caught, convicted and sentenced to six months in jail last year with a 100-euro ($115) fine.

But in a case drawing parallels to the story of "Les Misérables" protagonist Jean Valjean, Ostriakov has been redeemed: Italy's highest court annulled the verdict against him, according to reports Monday.

In Victor Hugo's epic French historical novel, Valjean served prison time after stealing bread for his sister's starving children.

An Italian state prosecutor tried to appeal Ostriakov's sentence in the 2011 case on a technicality, arguing that he should not have been found guilty of theft, but rather attempted theft, because he had been caught before he left the store.

But Italy's Supreme Court of Cassation went further: It threw out the conviction — essentially finding that because the 30-year-old was homeless and hungry, he stole the food from a market in Genoa out of necessity.

"The condition of the accused and the circumstances in which he obtained the merchandise show that he had taken the little amount of food he needed to overcome his immediate and essential requirement for nourishment," it said in a written ruling.

The court's lenience was seen as a humanitarian act of mercy by some Italians.

"The court's decision reminds us all that in a civilized country no one should be allowed to die of hunger," the Italian newspaper La Stampa wrote in a front-page editorial.

Another newspaper, Corriere della Sera, meanwhile, slammed the Italian justice system for taking five years before it decided a case for a theft worth less than $5.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Barrister on May 03, 2016, 11:10:06 PM
Entirely consistent with the common law. -_-
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 03, 2016, 11:21:33 PM
Quoteslammed the Italian justice system for taking five years before it decided a case for a theft worth less than $5.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kappit.com%2Fimg%2Fpics%2F43532573fgcec_sm.jpg&hash=a75e5f697aad8134a379d092eaf2427b8a69606e)
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 03, 2016, 11:33:53 PM
 That killed me for some reason! :lol:
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: The Brain on May 04, 2016, 12:05:29 AM
I don't know if he had exhausted other ways of getting food, but stealing food if it's necessary to save you from starvation is legal in many (most?) civilized countries.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 12:10:43 AM
Crazy! What's next? Being able to shoot people in self defense?
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Archy on May 04, 2016, 12:25:27 AM
I've even heard this crazy story about citizens allowed to make arrests  :o ;)
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2016, 12:32:08 AM
So how's this principle supposed to be carried out?  People steal food, get arrested, then they have to convince a judge they were starving?  Maybe like a simple blood sugar test?
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 12:34:46 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2016, 12:32:08 AM
So how's this principle supposed to be carried out?  People steal food, get arrested, then they have to convince a judge they were starving?  Maybe like a simple blood sugar test?

That works like every other criminal defense.  :huh:
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2016, 12:36:13 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 12:34:46 AM
That works like every other criminal defense.  :huh:

I didn't know all criminal defenses worked the same.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Maladict on May 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
I like the one they have in Belgium where you cannot be punished for breaking out of prison because it's a basic human desire to be free.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 12:40:23 AM
Well, they all work the same in that you need to actively bring up a defense as a defendant but whilst the burden of proof is technically on you, the standard of evidence is lower (compared to, say, civil trial) because it is sufficient that your defense raises reasonable doubts about your culpability.

As for the actual defense being used here, it is one that is relatively most common and ubiquitous (along with self defense), i.e. doctrine of necessity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Archy on May 04, 2016, 05:23:23 AM
Quote from: Maladict on May 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
I like the one they have in Belgium where you cannot be punished for breaking out of prison because it's a basic human desire to be free.
You can be convicted though for crimes done while breaking free.So it only applies if you can get out of jail without doing damage to the prison and without taking hostage some people.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Zanza on May 04, 2016, 05:25:46 AM
Quote from: Archy on May 04, 2016, 05:23:23 AM
Quote from: Maladict on May 04, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
I like the one they have in Belgium where you cannot be punished for breaking out of prison because it's a basic human desire to be free.
You can be convicted though for crimes done while breaking free.So it only applies if you can get out of jail without doing damage to the prison and without taking hostage some people.
Same in Germany.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 06:35:17 AM
In Poland "self liberation" is a crime punishable by a maximum sentence of 2 years of imprisonment (that's on top of any crime you may commit while escaping). I guess I can see why AfD thinks Germany's criminal law is too lenient.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Pedrito on May 04, 2016, 08:01:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 12:10:43 AM
Crazy! What's next? Being able to shoot people in self defense?
In Italy it's not legal to kill someone in self defense  :sleep:

L.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: viper37 on May 04, 2016, 08:03:29 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2016, 12:32:08 AM
So how's this principle supposed to be carried out?  People steal food, get arrested, then they have to convince a judge they were starving?  Maybe like a simple blood sugar test?
Simple test, actually.
We can count your ribs from a distance: not guilty.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: The Brain on May 04, 2016, 12:14:56 PM
In Sweden you get longer prison sentences if you're unemployed. Justice is blind, but sometimes it takes a wee peek.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: Zanza on May 04, 2016, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 04, 2016, 06:35:17 AM
In Poland "self liberation" is a crime punishable by a maximum sentence of 2 years of imprisonment (that's on top of any crime you may commit while escaping). I guess I can see why AfD thinks Germany's criminal law is too lenient.
I am not aware that they think it is too lenient in its punishments. The only thing I am aware of is they think it should also apply to younger youth and that adolescents should be tried as adults. Where do you get the idea th hat the AfD is against this law?
And anyway they would hardly orient themselves at a Polish law.
Title: Re: Italian Court Rules Stealing Food Is Not a Crime if You're Hungry
Post by: derspiess on May 04, 2016, 02:13:34 PM
I haven't had lunch yet.  I guess I'll head down to Bella Luna and clean out their kitchen.