For Seeds :hug:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-womens-book-club-settles-lawsuit-california-wine-045946922--finance.html?nhp=1
QuoteEleven women have reached a settlement with a California wine train company they sued for $11 million for racial discrimination after they were kicked off the train for being too loud, their lawyer said on Monday.
Members of the Sistahs on the Reading Edge Book Club came to an "amicable settlement" with the Napa Valley Wine Train company on Thursday, six months after filing a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Northern California, their attorney Waukeen McCoy said.
"We hope that other businesses learn from this case and implement diversity and sensitivity training for employees," McCoy said in an email to Reuters.
McCoy did not disclose the terms of the settlement.
Train company officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
The 11 women, 10 of whom are African-American, were ordered off the vintage train on Aug. 22 after other passengers complained the group was too loud. The expulsion sparked widespread anger on social media.
The controversy unfolded as the United States grapples with persistent issues of racism and discrimination following high-profile police killings of unarmed black men over the last two years, which triggered waves of protest and a renewed civil rights movement under the banner of "Black Lives Matter."
The women sued the company in October, seeking $11 million in damages for the violation of their civil rights.
"African-American adults are more likely to be shushed at, stared at, and kicked out of places where white people perceive that they do not fit," the complaint said.
The lawsuit also accused the company of defamation and libel for publishing an inaccurate social media post describing the women as being verbally and physically abusive to other passengers. The post was later removed.
Two of the women claimed they were fired from their jobs because of the defamatory statement made by the train company, according to the complaint.
Wine Train Chief Executive Anthony Giaccio issued a public apology along with a pledge to offer staff diversity training and host the women as guests on the train.
But the women said publicly the response was not sufficient to erase the humiliating experience of being forced off the train and met by police.
The train has run as a tourist attraction since 1864, offering dining services to passengers as the antique railcars cut through scenic vineyards in California, the company says on its website.
Ugh. Stupid bitches.
So were they actually causing a disturbance? The article says other people complained. If they were being annoying to other customers I don't see a problem with kicking them off.
Quote from: HVC on April 19, 2016, 06:52:09 AM
So were they actually causing a disturbance? The article says other people complained. If they were being annoying to other customers I don't see a problem with kicking them off.
But they were black so apparently deserve special treatment. That's what identity politics is all about. Like those gay people who eat each other's tonsils in a pub and then complain about homophobia when they are told to stop by the owner.
Incidentally, when white trash are loud in a public place, is it cultural appropriation or not?
See how the foreigners have this instant negative reaction to the idea of loud and obnoxious Americans? We have traumatized them all.
Quote from: HVC on April 19, 2016, 06:52:09 AM
So were they actually causing a disturbance? The article says other people complained. If they were being annoying to other customers I don't see a problem with kicking them off.
were they accused of a disturbance because they were black? Were they considered too loud while in fact they weren't any louder than the other passengers?
Quote from: viper37 on April 19, 2016, 07:58:58 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 19, 2016, 06:52:09 AM
So were they actually causing a disturbance? The article says other people complained. If they were being annoying to other customers I don't see a problem with kicking them off.
were they accused of a disturbance because they were black? Were they considered too loud while in fact they weren't any louder than the other passengers?
Well the train company probably didn't pay out 11 million dollars because they thought they did the right thing.
They didn't get the 11 million. They settled. And the issue, if I read the article right, was the social media comments after the fact that we're defamatory.
Quote from: HVC on April 19, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
They didn't get the 11 million. They settled. And the issue, if I read the article right, was the social media comments after the fact that we're defamatory.
Well that is what I get for just barely caring but not enough to review the facts and commenting on Languish about it anyway :P
I feel bad for the two women who lost their jobs because their company cyber-stalks them.
All aboard the whine train!
I wonder what really happened? Though in these modern times perhaps that doesn't matter.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 19, 2016, 08:14:04 AM
I feel bad for the two women who lost their jobs because their company cyber-stalks them.
I don't know. Posting on social media is an act done in public. If it was easy enough to link their comments to the incident in question then they deserve what they allegedly got.
A train without full audio and video surveillance? :yeahright:
Suing a vintage train company.
This angers me.
If you had told me 10 years ago that Martinus would have become a Polish derspiess, I probably would have laughed in your face.
But lo and behold...
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 08:25:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 19, 2016, 08:14:04 AM
I feel bad for the two women who lost their jobs because their company cyber-stalks them.
I don't know. Posting on social media is an act done in public. If it was easy enough to link their comments to the incident in question then they deserve what they allegedly got.
And people say I am paranoid about social media.
Quote from: Tyr on April 19, 2016, 11:17:01 AM
Suing a vintage train company.
This angers me.
I think you misunderstand. The train cars themselves are vintage, not the company (whose website says they have been in existence for 25 years). It is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 11:39:13 AMIt is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Which makes people complaining about loud passengers even more strange. :P
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2016, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 11:39:13 AMIt is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Which makes people complaining about loud passengers even more strange. :P
Wine events are generally polite, quiet, and restrained. In that sense I don't think the booze cruise analogy fits. I can imagine a group of loud women being disruptive to the whole vibe.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2016, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 11:39:13 AMIt is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Which makes people complaining about loud passengers even more strange. :P
Wine events are generally polite, quiet, and restrained. In that sense I don't think the booze cruise analogy fits. I can imagine a group of loud women being disruptive to the whole vibe.
:hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 19, 2016, 08:14:04 AM
I feel bad for the two women who lost their jobs because their company cyber-stalks them.
If your company is big enough, it is keeping tabs on your social media accounts.
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2016, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 11:39:13 AMIt is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Which makes people complaining about loud passengers even more strange. :P
Wine events are generally polite, quiet, and restrained. In that sense I don't think the booze cruise analogy fits. I can imagine a group of loud women being disruptive to the whole vibe.
:hmm:
The non-gay ones, anyway.
A wine tasting? Sure because you do not actually consume the wine. But a winery tour train sounds like it would get pretty boisterous as it went along.
Which means these women had to be really annoying to be a distraction to the other guests... Or they were black lol
Incidentally, I wonder if there is any research on different ethnic/cultural groups in the West and how they compare in terms of respecting personal space, how loud they talk/behave etc.
Maybe the wine events you guys have attended have been the raucous ones and somehow I avoided that on mine (which btw have included tastings, festivals, and yes tours). I guess I've just been really lucky.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 12:45:13 PM
Maybe the wine events you guys have attended have been the raucous ones and somehow I avoided that on mine (which btw have included tastings, festivals, and yes tours). I guess I've just been really lucky.
That's because you only go to racist events where people are generally polite. :P
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 12:45:13 PM
Maybe the wine events you guys have attended have been the raucous ones and somehow I avoided that on mine (which btw have included tastings, festivals, and yes tours). I guess I've just been really lucky.
My friends are just not as boring as yours :P
But I don't attend booze events, nor would I unless there was something nerdy about them (like a 900 year old winery or something). I have just seen what wine tends to do at parties.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2016, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 11:39:13 AMIt is essentially a booze cruise that lets passengers train to different wineries rather than drinking and driving.
Which makes people complaining about loud passengers even more strange. :P
Wine events are generally polite, quiet, and restrained. In that sense I don't think the booze cruise analogy fits. I can imagine a group of loud women being disruptive to the whole vibe.
You have very different wine tour experiences from mine. Normally by the end of the day people are in a pretty good mood and the exact opposite of quiet and restrained. Sampling a lot of wines throughout the day seems to have that effect on people.
These wine trains in Napa are exactly like a booze cruise. They start off nice and sedate, and end up with a bunch of people sloshed. The fact that they (mostly) go off without a hitch might be because most of the participants are fairly homogeneous - different groups might well party differently and thus get singled out.
It is not too hard to see that they may well have been treated differently and unfairly.
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 08:25:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 19, 2016, 08:14:04 AM
I feel bad for the two women who lost their jobs because their company cyber-stalks them.
I don't know. Posting on social media is an act done in public. If it was easy enough to link their comments to the incident in question then they deserve what they allegedly got.
Unless I'm reading it wrong, they weren't fired for what they said. They were fired for what the train company said.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 19, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
You have very different wine tour experiences from mine. Normally by the end of the day people are in a pretty good mood and the exact opposite of quiet and restrained. Sampling a lot of wines throughout the day seems to have that effect on people.
Sure, they get more lively as the day progresses, but do they get loud and obnoxious?
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 08:08:55 PM
Sure, they get more lively as the day progresses, but do they get loud and obnoxious?
They can get loud indeed (my aunt grew grapes near Geyserville and was involved in the wine scene), and obnoxious certainly can be in the eyes and ears of the offended.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2016, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 19, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
You have very different wine tour experiences from mine. Normally by the end of the day people are in a pretty good mood and the exact opposite of quiet and restrained. Sampling a lot of wines throughout the day seems to have that effect on people.
Sure, they get more lively as the day progresses, but do they get loud and obnoxious?
Certainly loud. And I suppose if you were there expecting a sedate outing you would probably have thought us obnoxious.
Not all wine lovers are the kind of cork dorks you envisage. :)
"Cork dorks", I like that. Has a better ring to it than, say, "fucking douchebag wine snob assholes."
Pretty much everyone gets loud and obnoxious after a few glasses of wine.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/04/19/marcos_alberti_makes_portraits_after_three_glasses_of_wine_in_his_series.html
They run out of Thunderbird or something.
Now see, that's not constructive. That's not constructive at all.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:04:03 PM
Pretty much everyone gets loud and obnoxious after a few glasses of wine.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/04/19/marcos_alberti_makes_portraits_after_three_glasses_of_wine_in_his_series.html
Only lightweights and people who were already obnoxious. Stop rationalizing bad behavior.
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2016, 10:11:16 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:04:03 PM
Pretty much everyone gets loud and obnoxious after a few glasses of wine.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/04/19/marcos_alberti_makes_portraits_after_three_glasses_of_wine_in_his_series.html
Only lightweights and people who were already obnoxious. Stop rationalizing bad behavior.
Yea Tim, no shit.
Yeah, according to B4's stories he never got obnoxious when drunk.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 20, 2016, 10:06:54 PM
They run out of Thunderbird or something.
Who drinks the most?
COLORED FOLKS
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2016, 10:11:16 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:04:03 PM
Pretty much everyone gets loud and obnoxious after a few glasses of wine.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/04/19/marcos_alberti_makes_portraits_after_three_glasses_of_wine_in_his_series.html
Only lightweights and people who were already obnoxious. Stop rationalizing bad behavior.
So, exactly the type of people who would go on a wine train tour. Odd that only one group gets called out for it. :hmm:
Maybe they could have a rear car where parties who might be loud or boisterous can reserve and have fun without disturbing other folks. That might be a good compromise.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:37:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 20, 2016, 10:11:16 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:04:03 PM
Pretty much everyone gets loud and obnoxious after a few glasses of wine.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/04/19/marcos_alberti_makes_portraits_after_three_glasses_of_wine_in_his_series.html
Only lightweights and people who were already obnoxious. Stop rationalizing bad behavior.
So, exactly the type of people who would go on a wine train tour. Odd that only one group gets called out for it. :hmm:
Maybe they acted the most obnoxious.
I have been on wine tours in several countries (including California) and they uniformly ended up becoming spirited and boisterous affairs. So yeah, I can believe that there might be more to the story than it appears.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 20, 2016, 10:37:25 PM
So, exactly the type of people who would go on a wine train tour. Odd that only one group gets called out for it. :hmm:
No.
Quote from: Jaron on April 20, 2016, 10:38:34 PM
Maybe they could have a rear car where parties who might be loud or boisterous can reserve and have fun without disturbing other folks. That might be a good compromise.
:lol: