Ah, the good ol' days...nothing like Jane Pauley scaring the shit out of our Moms.
QuoteWhen Dungeons & Dragons Set Off a 'Moral Panic'
Retro Report
By CLYDE HABERMAN APRIL 17, 2016
Going back at least to the 1690s, when the elders of colonial Salem, Mass., executed 20 women and men for supposedly practicing witchcraft, there have been Americans who find the devil's hand in all manner of human activity.
Satanic messages have been ascribed to the corporate symbols of major companies like Starbucks and Procter & Gamble. Some religious fundamentalists are certain that 666, the number of the beast in the Book of Revelation, lurks in swirls that are central to the logos of the Olympic Games, Google Chrome and the Walt Disney Company. The Harry Potter series, with its incantations and wizardry, has also come under fire (and brimstone) for ostensibly promoting occultism.
Then there is Dungeons & Dragons, introduced in 1974 as the first role-playing game made commercially available. D&D players, working collaboratively, can let their minds roam free through stories about brave warriors locked in combat with trolls, orcs, dragons and other evildoers. The game's millions of players include prominent writers like Junot Díaz and Cory Doctorow, who have described it as their apprenticeship to storytelling, a gateway to the essence of fantasy and narrative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/18/us/when-dungeons-dragons-set-off-a-moral-panic.html
Great embedded video with archival footage, by the way.
Makes me want to spin up
Mazes & Monsters.
Nice.
OMG the devil, witchcraft, sorcery......fucking idiots. Goes to show morons ignorant panic.
I had to wait a while before I could keep that stuff in the house. Mom wasn't against it per se, but she had issue with gaming in general, RPGs, wargaming, what have you.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2016, 07:53:15 PM
I had to wait a while before I could keep that stuff in the house. Mom wasn't against it per se, but she had issue with gaming in general, RPGs, wargaming, what have you.
Mine was opposite. I remember when I asked her to get the Elric series from Tower of Books. She asked what it was about and I told her an albino with a demonic sword, running around. She just shook her head. I got the books.
With war games I think she was just fascinated. What's that game? Hey Ma it's a tactical war game about a Nato/Warsaw pact war. A US Cav company is delaying a Soviet Tank Battalion (Mech War 2). She just looked at the map and said that's nice, walking off. I didn't know algebra, but I knew the TOE of a Soviet Tank division.
QuoteI didn't know algebra, but I knew the TOE of a Soviet Tank division.
Yeah, didn't matter that I had an undergraduate grasp of European geography by the time I was 13, either. Funny, never got any credit for that on PTA Conference Night.
For me, it was more like--
"You can find time to play your stupid games, but you can't find time to do your homework!" *Throws
Third Reich (3rd Ed) at head, destroys game box*
AD&D devil worship was just icing on the cupcake.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2016, 08:28:17 PM
QuoteI didn't know algebra, but I knew the TOE of a Soviet Tank division.
Yeah, didn't matter that I had an undergraduate grasp of European geography by the time I was 13, either. Funny, never got any credit for that on PTA Conference Night.
For me, it was more like--
"You can find time to play your stupid games, but you can't find time to do your homework!"
*Throws Third Reich (3rd Ed) at head, destroys game box*
AD&D devil worship was just icing on the cupcake.
:lol:
I wonder if their are any nongamers on this site. I can't think of one.
Just think 35 years ago the average gamer didn't have the internet, which IMO, revolutionised gaming. You'd go to the (war)gaming store, or club/group and just game all night. Now it's a key board away.
IIRC Mihalia is not a gamer.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 18, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
I wonder if their are any nongamers on this site. I can't think of one.
Just think 35 years ago the average gamer didn't have the internet, which IMO, revolutionised gaming. You'd go to the (war)gaming store, or club/group and just game all night. Now it's a key board away.
And I think we are lesser for it.
I am glad to see a report that acknowledges all the benefits we got from that game. And I think I will protest about the bit about all players being geeks who didnt have girlfriends or go to parties. We certainly didnt all fit that stereotype.
Seeing that piece brought back some great memories. And did you notice the young Mary Hart :wub:
My parents never cared. My dad even made copies of character sheets at work for me. My friends and I were really into D&D for a while and even played a few times on the playground at school. We all grew out of it by around 4th grade, though.
My mother talked to me about it, I said I told her it was indeed Satanic and I had killed all the cats in the neighborhood. That's how we learn not to ask stupid questions.
I used to play D&D and ended up as a gay anti-Christian lawyer with an interest in occultism. :hmm:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2016, 09:23:55 PM
My mother talked to me about it, I said I told her it was indeed Satanic and I had killed all the cats in the neighborhood. That's how we learn not to ask stupid questions.
Not as much as the cats.
I've been doing table-top role-playing since I was 13. Never caught any flack from the parents. They came from a background where any reading is good reading.
It was my dad, when I was around 11 or 12, that brought home THE RED BOX and gave it to me saying something about playing with friends.
I remember I forced my younger sister to play with me, before finding a semi-stable group.
L.
I really discovered it on my own as, when I was a kid, tabletop RPGs were only just appearing in Poland.
In fact, D&D came relatively late for me. My first game was called "Crystals of Time". It was written by a Polish guy and was published in episodes in a fantasy fanzine I used to read. It felt like Excel Spreadsheet bonanza were you had to consult 10 tables and roll dice 5 times or so to check if you hit the enemy. I forced my friends to play with me.
Then came Warhammer FRPG which is probably the most popular system in Poland, and after that World of Darkness, Pendragon, Amber Diceless and Call of Cthulhu. I think I haven't played D&D until I played it online with Dem and Jaron (but obviously I knew the system, not least because of computer games such as Pools of Radiance or Champions of Krynn).
I now have an online group with whom I play over chat on a weekly basis. :nerd:
We have just put a Hunter campaign on hiatus and playing Aberrant right now.
My mum encouraged me to join the local games club as a way to meet new friends :P
Found the original Dark Dungeons comic here:
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp (https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp)
There was a British version that went round the games club too but I can't find it.
In Spain we had a moral panic related to role playing games of our own. When I was 14, and exactly the week before I played my first game ever (Call of Cthulhu) with a couple of high school friends, some weird psycho kids in Madrid actually killed a guy claiming to be part of a LARP. Our more sensationalistic tv station ran with the story for a long time. Talk about timing.
It was a '90s thing in France. Dumb TV shows used it for profit.
I don't think any widespread moral panic ever occurred in Finland. We are enlightened that way. :P Considering how many Finns are fans of various subcultures (gamer, goth, metal, etc.), it's no surprise.
I started playing D&D in the beginning of the 90s and never had any problems. There was a fairly large gaming community at the time already.
I don't think there was any widespread moral panic in Poland, either. I think some priests denounced tabletop rpgs from the pulpit, but then so they did with Harry Potter, Hello Kitty, My Little Pony and Stuart the Little so noone really took it seriously.
I started playing my first RPG in 1988, aged 11. The second edition of what eventually became Germany's most popular system and campaign world just got published, Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye). My mother did not exactly like it and eventually forbade me to play for a while. I would eventually join a RPG Group when I was 14, then playing D&D and MERP.
Oh, and much fun was to be had at that time, when a particularly religious uncle started to spread a German translation of Pat Pulling's infamous The Devils Web among the Family. I actually had to read the bullshit and then sit down with my mother to refute it. <_<
Oh I forgot another game I played extensively - Ars Magica. To this day probably my favourite setting ever. :cool:
So apparently the fanzine I mentioned earlier started to come out in 1993, so 1993 was my first contact with tabletop RPGs (was 15 at the time, so pretty old). I remember not fully realising at first what this is supposed to be (I only knew the Talisman board game before and I thought it was something similar).
I took up wargaming and role-playing games c.1970 (D&D was not yet out so we even had to write our own rules at first). I heard about the moral panic over D&D later on, bit it was perceived as a primarily American thing. What I did encounter, however, was disapproval from some adult socialists for wargaming with figurines. There seemed to be a fear that wargaming would turn one into a militaristic bastard and lead to a career in the armed forces and a determination to kill a variety of inoffensive foreigners :hmm: :lol:
Which just goes to show that assorted "progressives" (socialists, feminists etc.) operate frequently according to the same mindset as various "reactionaries" (Christian conservatives, islamists etc.).
The only things that change is who is their God and who are the unbelievers.
Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2016, 07:55:45 AM
Which just goes to show that assorted "progressives" (socialists, feminists etc.) operate frequently according to the same mindset as various "reactionaries" (Christian conservatives, islamists etc.).
Well it is the same deal. They are trying to create a moral and righteous society. Us un-virtuous barbarians ruin it for them.
Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2016, 12:13:35 AM
I used to play D&D and ended up as a gay anti-Christian lawyer with an interest in occultism. :hmm:
Enough about your role playing.
Quote from: mongers on April 19, 2016, 11:06:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2016, 12:13:35 AM
I used to play D&D and ended up as a gay anti-Christian lawyer with an interest in occultism. :hmm:
Enough about your role playing.
Marti fails his save roll 2d10 versus ROFL
Quote from: Malicious Intent on April 19, 2016, 06:43:38 AM
I started playing my first RPG in 1988, aged 11. The second edition of what eventually became Germany's most popular system and campaign world just got published, Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye). My mother did not exactly like it and eventually forbade me to play for a while. I would eventually join a RPG Group when I was 14, then playing D&D and MERP.
This RPG, translated as l'Œil Noir, was very popular too in France back then. Gateway RPG since it was sold outside of hobby stores back then.
Does anyone still actively do table-top other than me and Martinus? I would love to hear what systems you guys are using these days.
I am currently in a bi-weekly Werewolf: The Apocalypse game, am working on a Hunter: The Reckoning storyline so I can run it, and will almost certainly be running a 7th Sea 2nd edition game when the new book comes out.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 19, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
This RPG, translated as l'Œil Noir, was very popular too in France back then. Gateway RPG since it was sold outside of hobby stores back then.
Cool, never knew that. :-) I was only aware that it was marketed as
Realms of Arkania or
The Dark Eye in the USA, where it failed miserably. D&D was just too omnipresent and the translation was amateurishly handled by a single person, who never managed more than the core rules and one or two adventures.
DSA was certainly pretty different from the usual RPGs of it's time (at least from the second edition onwards), with a strong focus on roleplaying, storytelling and a living changing world. They once had an insane campaign running from 1994 to 1999 about a demonic Invasion, with 9 main line adventures and more then a dozen major tie-in adventures, countless smaller scenarios, monthly updates in the games official newspaper and so on.
It was recently rereleased as a 1100 page leatherbound tome. And that's only the core of the campaign. :mmm:
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 12:42:17 PM
Does anyone still actively do table-top other than me and Martinus? I would love to hear what systems you guys are using these days.
I am currently in a bi-weekly Werewolf: The Apocalypse game, am working on a Hunter: The Reckoning storyline so I can run it, and will almost certainly be running a 7th Sea 2nd edition game when the new book comes out.
My group is currently mostly inactive, apart from the occasional board game. I did GM a Pathfinder adventure a year ago, but it did not really fit our gaming style. We plan to start a short Call of Cthulhu campaign in June or July, just to meet up more regularly.
My tabletop RPG group moved over to boardgames full time a few years ago. We've been toying with running something again, but never followed through.
I've never even played one before.
Also, my first tabletop was Rune Quest back when I was 12. It wasn't very successful among my friends at the time because the ruleset wasn't very teenager-friendly. I also tried MERP - which I personally LOVED (hence my internet nickname) - but the rules were even more arcane. When D&D finally came out in Spain it was a smash though; it was streamlined and fun, and that's what got my friends into tabletop RPGs. We played that game incessantly through high-school, college, and beyond.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2016, 08:28:17 PM
QuoteI didn't know algebra, but I knew the TOE of a Soviet Tank division.
Yeah, didn't matter that I had an undergraduate grasp of European geography by the time I was 13, either. Funny, never got any credit for that on PTA Conference Night.
For me, it was more like--
"You can find time to play your stupid games, but you can't find time to do your homework!"
*Throws Third Reich (3rd Ed) at head, destroys game box*
AD&D devil worship was just icing on the cupcake.
Yeah, really. I've always liked geography but learned so much more of it from war games and war books.
Quote from: celedhring on April 19, 2016, 01:33:01 PM
Also, my first tabletop was Rune Quest back when I was 12. It wasn't very successful among my friends at the time because the ruleset wasn't very teenager-friendly. I also tried MERP - which I personally LOVED (hence my internet nickname) - but the rules were even more arcane. When D&D finally came out in Spain it was a smash though; it was streamlined and fun, and that's what got my friends into tabletop RPGs. We played that game incessantly through high-school, college, and beyond.
You didn't play Hero Quest as a kid? Now that was a gateway boardgame.
My group still plays but now it's been a while since the latest session. Call of Cthulhu and WFRP (2nd ed) have been our main games these last years.
The first commercial RPG I played was Drakar och Demoner (Swedish RPG based on the Basic Roleplaying system). Roleplaying games were yuuge in Sweden in the 80s. Then it was MERP, Space Master, Role Master, Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, Twilight 2000, Vampire, Kult, WFRP...
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2016, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on April 19, 2016, 01:33:01 PM
Also, my first tabletop was Rune Quest back when I was 12. It wasn't very successful among my friends at the time because the ruleset wasn't very teenager-friendly. I also tried MERP - which I personally LOVED (hence my internet nickname) - but the rules were even more arcane. When D&D finally came out in Spain it was a smash though; it was streamlined and fun, and that's what got my friends into tabletop RPGs. We played that game incessantly through high-school, college, and beyond.
You didn't play Hero Quest as a kid? Now that was a gateway boardgame.
Absolutely. I actually repurposed the minis to run my Rune Quest campaigns :D
Quote from: 11B4V on April 18, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
I wonder if their are any nongamers on this site. I can't think of one.
Just think 35 years ago the average gamer didn't have the internet, which IMO, revolutionised gaming. You'd go to the (war)gaming store, or club/group and just game all night. Now it's a key board away.
When I was a kid there was no such thing as the internet. That probably came in sometime when I was in my late teens or twenties, and then it was slow modem dial up and of course nothing like the content it is now.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 12:42:17 PM
Does anyone still actively do table-top other than me and Martinus? I would love to hear what systems you guys are using these days.
I am currently in a bi-weekly Werewolf: The Apocalypse game, am working on a Hunter: The Reckoning storyline so I can run it, and will almost certainly be running a 7th Sea 2nd edition game when the new book comes out.
The campaign I'm currently in is a Pathfinder one in the Eberron setting. Hopefully in the summer we'll resume playing a Game of Thrones one with the Guardians of Order's d20 system, which I personally like a lot.
Quote from: garbon on April 19, 2016, 01:31:15 PM
I've never even played one before.
What about computer RPGs?
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 12:42:17 PM
Does anyone still actively do table-top other than me and Martinus? I would love to hear what systems you guys are using these days.
I am currently in a bi-weekly Werewolf: The Apocalypse game, am working on a Hunter: The Reckoning storyline so I can run it, and will almost certainly be running a 7th Sea 2nd edition game when the new book comes out.
Been running d20 Conan until recently, it will probably pick up again later. Also ran Warhammer FRPG some time ago. Now we are mainly using FATE.
I did not get involved in RPGs to play them, really it was to make some money off my brother and his nerd friends painting and modifying figurines, vehicles, buildings... WH40K made me some money.
Quote from: lustindarkness on April 19, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
I did not get involved in RPGs to play them, really it was to make some money off my brother and his nerd friends painting and modifying figurines, vehicles, buildings... WH40K made me some money.
Uhm, figurines are NOT tabletop RPGs. Neither is WH40K.
I think you will have a hard time convincing many a D&D nerd that there are no figurines in their tabletop RPGs...
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 03:36:35 PM
I think you will have a hard time convincing many a D&D nerd that there are no figurines in their tabletop RPGs...
Are pencils RPGs?
If angled correctly.
Back in the day, I sometimes wished I had an RPG(grenade launcher) at those RPG(games). They really got on my nerves sometimes.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 12:42:17 PM
Does anyone still actively do table-top other than me and Martinus? I would love to hear what systems you guys are using these days.
I am currently in a bi-weekly Werewolf: The Apocalypse game, am working on a Hunter: The Reckoning storyline so I can run it, and will almost certainly be running a 7th Sea 2nd edition game when the new book comes out.
My old college buddies and I (along with Scott's son and some of his friends) still tabletop each Saturday. Those of us not in the vicinity join through Google Hangouts. We have been doing this for almost 2 years now.
We have been playing GURPS since 2nd edition, still doing it.
About 5 years ago there was a small group of younger guys at work in IT that I latched on to for some WH40K Dark Heresy. That's the silly, gritty, completely over-the-top RPG universe I would've sunk myself into as a teen; but in your 40s, too many tables, too much silliness.
You get older, you appreciate the lighter, narrative-driven RPGs. Dogs in the Vineyard, Dirty World, Hot War, Don't Rest Your Head. Stuff like that.
Although, like Marti, I thoroughly enjoy the Ars Magica system: if you want magic, you need to fucking earn it. Magnificent system.
I just want to wear fancy helmets that shoot lasers.
For decades (literally) we played in Scott's world - The High Reaches. It has hundreds of years of development and had gone through several "campaign jumps" in which it started all over again. Even when I was in California I managed to make it back at least once a year to play.
Now I am a junkie again, in Scott's new world.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2016, 06:57:45 PM
About 5 years ago there was a small group of younger guys at work in IT that I latched on to for some WH40K Dark Heresy. That's the silly, gritty, completely over-the-top RPG universe I would've sunk myself into as a teen; but in your 40s, too many tables, too much silliness.
You get older, you appreciate the lighter, narrative-driven RPGs. Dogs in the Vineyard, Dirty World, Hot War, Don't Rest Your Head. Stuff like that.
Although, like Marti, I thoroughly enjoy the Ars Magica system: if you want magic, you need to fucking earn it. Magnificent system.
I also think it's the Catholic in us - this was the best system to incorporate Christian theology, imo. They had stats for archangels and miracles. :D
Quote from: PDH on April 19, 2016, 07:14:17 PM
For decades (literally) we played in Scott's world - The High Reaches. It has hundreds of years of development and had gone through several "campaign jumps" in which it started all over again. Even when I was in California I managed to make it back at least once a year to play.
Now I am a junkie again, in Scott's new world.
I hope to be able to do something similar when life settles a bit more. Feel free to share any noteworthy stories of your recent sessions. I remember you shared maps and commentary from one game a while back that was fun to read. :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2016, 06:57:45 PM
About 5 years ago there was a small group of younger guys at work in IT that I latched on to for some WH40K Dark Heresy. That's the silly, gritty, completely over-the-top RPG universe I would've sunk myself into as a teen; but in your 40s, too many tables, too much silliness.
You get older, you appreciate the lighter, narrative-driven RPGs. Dogs in the Vineyard, Dirty World, Hot War, Don't Rest Your Head. Stuff like that.
Although, like Marti, I thoroughly enjoy the Ars Magica system: if you want magic, you need to fucking earn it. Magnificent system.
Ars Magica was my favorite RPG system too. Sadly I could never engage any of my groups in a campaign. They all preferred more fantastic settings and high adventure stuff. But I loved it.
It does have some interesting rules. I like the idea of each adventure a different player plays the wizard.
Quote from: celedhring on April 20, 2016, 01:44:12 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2016, 06:57:45 PM
About 5 years ago there was a small group of younger guys at work in IT that I latched on to for some WH40K Dark Heresy. That's the silly, gritty, completely over-the-top RPG universe I would've sunk myself into as a teen; but in your 40s, too many tables, too much silliness.
You get older, you appreciate the lighter, narrative-driven RPGs. Dogs in the Vineyard, Dirty World, Hot War, Don't Rest Your Head. Stuff like that.
Although, like Marti, I thoroughly enjoy the Ars Magica system: if you want magic, you need to fucking earn it. Magnificent system.
Ars Magica was my favorite RPG system too. Sadly I could never engage any of my groups in a campaign. They all preferred more fantastic settings and high adventure stuff. But I loved it.
Yeah same here. I was fascinated by the world and the concept but the others didn't share my enthusiasm at all.
I also played a couple of sessions of Ars Magica and remember the system as pretty cool. A friend of mine still raves about it from time to time. I sometimes wonder why it failed to catch on in our group, but it seems that we're not the only ones.
For my players, they liked to really "bond" with the characters they played. They seemed to be unable to do so when they had 4-6 each in one campaign.
Mind you, we were around our late teens, I think with everyone more used to boardgames and such nowadays it could get much more playtime. Then again, out of the 3-person core of our tiny group, one is in England, the second is in Hungary, and the third is Norway, so it won't be happening. :(
Well, the "troupe style" play is not a must for Ars Magica. But yeah for some reason people either love Ars Magica or completely dont care for it.