Hey, so my lamb is going to slaughter on Wednesday, and I've been given first right of refusal on the heads of the two lambs going in. Do I want them? Is there a dish that I simply must have them for?
My mom hates lamb, so it's not something we had much as a kid, and she wouldn't have dreamt of touching the head. My older foster siblings regularly roasted whole goats, sheep, and pigs over a big pit for Easter, but I don't remember what they did with the heads, if anything. Most 'Muricans don't generally like to know that their food once walked, so I'm grasping for straws on whether or not I want them.
Thoughts?
There were frozen sheep's heads in Icelandic supermarkets next to pizza etc. So I guess Legbiter could provide a traditional recipe.
You're taking this Welsh thing too far. :yucky:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2016, 12:01:17 PM
You're taking this Welsh thing too far. :yucky:
This isn't a Welsh thing. This is a "waste not/want not" thing. :)
The traditional Norwegian way to serve sheep's head is to salt it, smoke it and hang it for a while. Like a month or so.
It's considered "traditional food". I can't help you with any recipe, meri, but I support your effort in using the whole of the animal. It's how it should be, really.
You could see if you find an English language recipe for "smalahove". Which is sheep's head.
I actually found one of those. Not sure I could eat it that way, though. I also found a sheep's head broth that might actually be doable.
Have you eaten smalahove? Do you like it?
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 12:18:20 PM
Have you eaten smalahove? Do you like it?
No, I have just seen it. There's something about smalahove, lutefisk and rakfisk that I couldn't stand before. Now I am two for three. :)
It is supposedly a delicacy, and traditionally served with lots of beer and liquour.
I'd not be adverse to trying nowadays, though, as long as I can skip the booze.
You can always make good broth and soup out of (almost) any part of an animal.
What the fuck?
You actually raised a lamb and now you are going to slaughter it? What are you? A nazi-in-training?
Quote from: Martinus on April 04, 2016, 01:18:07 PM
What are you?
A person who has lived in the 10,000 or so years since sheep were domesticated? :P
Time to join us in the post-Mesolithic Era Marty.
Quote from: Zanza on April 04, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
There were frozen sheep's heads in Icelandic supermarkets next to pizza etc. So I guess Legbiter could provide a traditional recipe.
Yes.
Frozen sheep head's jelly. :mmm:
http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly (http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly)
Contains a helpful video clip on how to make it. I'll sometimes eat a pound of it for lunch.
No wonder we expelled you guys.
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 04, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
There were frozen sheep's heads in Icelandic supermarkets next to pizza etc. So I guess Legbiter could provide a traditional recipe.
Yes.
Frozen sheep head's jelly. :mmm:
http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly (http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly)
Contains a helpful video clip on how to make it. I'll sometimes eat a pound of it for lunch.
:mmm:
We usually make it out of pig heads but I can imagine sheep head would also be delicious.
Quote from: Liep on April 04, 2016, 03:10:26 PM
:mmm:
We usually make it out of pig heads but I can imagine sheep head would also be delicious.
It is. Especially the tongue. :licklips:
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2016, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: Liep on April 04, 2016, 03:10:26 PM
:mmm:
We usually make it out of pig heads but I can imagine sheep head would also be delicious.
It is. Especially the tongue. :licklips:
Ok, Hannibal Lecter.
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2016, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: Liep on April 04, 2016, 03:10:26 PM
:mmm:
We usually make it out of pig heads but I can imagine sheep head would also be delicious.
It is. Especially the tongue. :licklips:
I've already called dibs on the tongues. I have a 14th century English recipe to try on those.
Quote from: Martinus on April 04, 2016, 01:18:07 PM
What the fuck?
You actually raised a lamb and now you are going to slaughter it? What are you? A nazi-in-training?
Where do you think your meat comes from, Marti?
You get your meat and fish from trees, I guess, Marti.
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Where do you think your meat comes from, Marti?
Sheep meat come in a can, it was put there by a man, in a factory downtown.
Heh, I can still recall my surprise as a child when I found out that the (delicious) tongue we ate on Sunday teatimes was ..........tadaa!.......tongue :P
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 04, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
There were frozen sheep's heads in Icelandic supermarkets next to pizza etc. So I guess Legbiter could provide a traditional recipe.
Yes.
Frozen sheep head's jelly. :mmm:
http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly (http://icelandreview.com/stuff/multimedia/2009/02/12/sheeps-head-jelly)
Contains a helpful video clip on how to make it. I'll sometimes eat a pound of it for lunch.
While this looks really good to me, I'm pretty sure Max would have to leave the house while I a) cooked it, and b) ate it. The consistency of aspic is a real turn off for him. :D
If you're not worried about scrapie, the Lebanese marinate lamb's brain in lemon and olive oil and then fry them:
Nikha'at Miqliyah (http://ifood.tv/lamb/53393-marinatedlambs-brains)
They're good, but I wouldn't make a regular habit out of eating them.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 04, 2016, 03:42:31 PM
Heh, I can still recall my surprise as a child when I found out that the (delicious) tongue we ate on Sunday teatimes was ..........tadaa!.......tongue :P
The recipe that I have:
Quote
Stewed Lambs' Tongues
Place six lambs' tongues in a saucepan of water and boil for an hour and a half; take them out, plunge into cold water, take out again and skin. Place a little more than three tablespoonfuls of butter in a saucepan, with an onion cut in slices, two slices of carrot and three of turnip, and cook gently for a quarter of an hour. Sprinkle in three tablespoonfuls of flour, and stir well until it is brown, pour in a quart of stock, boil it up, put in the tongue, and sprinkle over a tablespoonful of salt and a little pepper, and add a bunch of sweet herbs. Place the saucepan at the side of the fire, and let it simmer for two hours. When they are done, put the tongues in the center of the dish, garnish with a vegetable, strain the gravy over, and serve,
Actually, this is a late 19th century recipe, but it's pretty close to the other one that I have.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 04, 2016, 04:00:02 PM
If you're not worried about scrapie, the Lebanese marinate lamb's brain in lemon and olive oil and then fry them:
Nikha'at Miqliyah (http://ifood.tv/lamb/53393-marinatedlambs-brains)
They're good, but I wouldn't make a regular habit out of eating them.
I think we're using the brains to try to make leather out of the older sheep that are also getting slaughtered later this month. The lambs will be made into wool rugs. The sheep will have thicker skin, so will make better leather for our purposes.
Crack open the skull and give it to the dogs is the traditional way I believe?
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 04, 2016, 04:00:02 PM
If you're not worried about scrapie, the Lebanese marinate lamb's brain in lemon and olive oil and then fry them:
Nikha'at Miqliyah (http://ifood.tv/lamb/53393-marinatedlambs-brains)
They're good, but I wouldn't make a regular habit out of eating them.
I think we're using the brains to try to make leather out of the older sheep that are also getting slaughtered later this month. The lambs will be made into wool rugs. The sheep will have thicker skin, so will make better leather for our purposes.
That's interesting; how are lamb's brains used in the tanning process?
I assume you're doing the tanning somewhere far away from your property.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 04, 2016, 04:22:39 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 04, 2016, 04:00:02 PM
If you're not worried about scrapie, the Lebanese marinate lamb's brain in lemon and olive oil and then fry them:
Nikha'at Miqliyah (http://ifood.tv/lamb/53393-marinatedlambs-brains)
They're good, but I wouldn't make a regular habit out of eating them.
I think we're using the brains to try to make leather out of the older sheep that are also getting slaughtered later this month. The lambs will be made into wool rugs. The sheep will have thicker skin, so will make better leather for our purposes.
That's interesting; how are lamb's brains used in the tanning process?
I assume you're doing the tanning somewhere far away from your property.
Here's a website that kind of goes through the process. This is the way tanning has been done for thousands of years, before we started using chemicals for everything. I'm hoping to get some leather that is made in a medieval fashion so that I can try to make a leather bottle from it. I've been playing around with 13th - 14th century leathercrafting.
http://www.braintan.com/intro/intro.html (http://www.braintan.com/intro/intro.html)
And yeah, this is all taking place out on the farm where the sheep are kept. We live in town. :D
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
Here's a website that kind of goes through the process. This is the way tanning has been done for thousands of years, before we started using chemicals for everything. I'm hoping to get some leather that is made in a medieval fashion so that I can try to make a leather bottle from it. I've been playing around with 13th - 14th century leathercrafting.
http://www.braintan.com/intro/intro.html (http://www.braintan.com/intro/intro.html)
And yeah, this is all taking place out on the farm where the sheep are kept. We live in town. :D
I've been to the tanning works in Fez where they still follow the same process as they did in the middle ages. That's a smell I will
never forget.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 04, 2016, 04:38:35 PM
I've been to the tanning works in Fez where they still follow the same process as they did in the middle ages. That's a smell I will never forget.
Dude, I grew up down the street from three packing plants. :D When the wind blew just right, it made your eyes water. Plus, half the men I knew worked at them, so they brought the smell home with them.
Not pleasant, but doesn't affect me nearly as bad as it does most.
Quote from: Norgy on April 04, 2016, 12:16:57 PM
The traditional Norwegian way to serve sheep's head is to salt it, smoke it and hang it for a while. Like a month or so.
It's considered "traditional food". I can't help you with any recipe, meri, but I support your effort in using the whole of the animal. It's how it should be, really.
You could see if you find an English language recipe for "smalahove". Which is sheep's head.
Why should it be that way? Using the whole animal, I mean.
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 04, 2016, 12:16:57 PM
The traditional Norwegian way to serve sheep's head is to salt it, smoke it and hang it for a while. Like a month or so.
It's considered "traditional food". I can't help you with any recipe, meri, but I support your effort in using the whole of the animal. It's how it should be, really.
You could see if you find an English language recipe for "smalahove". Which is sheep's head.
Why should it be that way? Using the whole animal, I mean.
Waste not want not. :)
Yeah, OK, so it's a lamb going to slaughter. I get that. Doesn't mean you have to treat it like Jimmy fucking Hoffa. Goddamn. #LambchopSleepsWithDaFishes
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 09:02:34 PMWaste not want not. :)
but everyone wastes a little. eating the nasty bits nobody ever eats simply to not waste. where does it stop? mcdonald ketchup packets rather than waste $ on the bottle?
I bet the non (comparatively) impoverished cavemen tossed away some parts
Quote from: LaCroix on April 04, 2016, 09:21:07 PM
I bet the non (comparatively) impoverished cavemen tossed away some parts
Umm, hunter/gatherers invariably use every last bit of an animal.
Chinese love eating fish heads. It is said that the meat in those parts is the most tender. Never heard of eating sheeps head.
Quote from: Barrister on April 04, 2016, 09:48:00 PMUmm, hunter/gatherers invariably use every last bit of an animal.
all cavemen, no matter how well off the cave, used every morsel and bit of animal, every single time?
how do you know?
Feed the nasty bits to the pigs/dogs/whatever.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2016, 10:01:29 PM
Feed the nasty bits to the pigs/dogs/whatever.
that falls under tossed away
Quote from: LaCroix on April 04, 2016, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2016, 10:01:29 PM
Feed the nasty bits to the pigs/dogs/whatever.
that falls under tossed away
Not necessarily. If you have to feed the pigs/dogs/whatever and would have to expend energy to find them something else to eat, feeding them bits of a leftover animal is using it productively.
How about waiting for shit to grow up first before killing it and chopping its fucking head off for a soup bone. Goddamn.
Actually, I would not be surprised if foragers didn't eat every part of an animal - with a low population and good methods to gather resources they likely had surpluses at times, thus the domestication of dogs.
Now farmers, they HAD to use everything because often time they were closer to the edge of starvation. Also, blood sausage needs a cookpot after all.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flifeabsorbed.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2F179940d4311f11e3bd1922000ab480a2_7.jpg&hash=67deba962a6304637240012475c16755a3ea4db5)
Quote from: PDH on April 04, 2016, 10:17:19 PM
Actually, I would not be surprised if foragers didn't eat every part of an animal - with a low population and good methods to gather resources they likely had surpluses at times, thus the domestication of dogs.
Now farmers, they HAD to use everything because often time they were closer to the edge of starvation. Also, blood sausage needs a cookpot after all.
I know you are a might PhD, while all I have is a lowly LL.B. and B.Sc., but I didn't say hunter-gatherers "eat" every part of an animal - I said they "use" every part of an animal. And feeding dogs certainly counts as "use".
Quote from: sbr on April 04, 2016, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on April 04, 2016, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2016, 10:01:29 PM
Feed the nasty bits to the pigs/dogs/whatever.
that falls under tossed away
Not necessarily. If you have to feed the pigs/dogs/whatever and would have to expend energy to find them something else to eat, feeding them bits of a leftover animal is using it productively.
Messrs Creutzfeldt and Jakob send their regards.
Anyway, is it a waste? Presumably it'll decompose and become something else.
The traditional Welsh dish Cawl was originally made from sheep's head. You need to marinade it in salt water for a day beforehand.
Here's a Moroccan recipe that looks tasty:
http://moroccanfood.about.com/od/moroccanoffalrecipes/r/steamed_sheep_head.htm (http://moroccanfood.about.com/od/moroccanoffalrecipes/r/steamed_sheep_head.htm)
Quote from: Barrister on April 04, 2016, 11:26:58 PM
I know you are a might PhD, while all I have is a lowly LL.B. and B.Sc., but I didn't say hunter-gatherers "eat" every part of an animal - I said they "use" every part of an animal. And feeding dogs certainly counts as "use".
I'm not a PhD (My initials are PDH), but my point was that the hypothesized symbiosis of wolves and man was more an advantage of the wolves eating scraps that the foragers didn't eat or use as anything other than garbage.
Quote from: LaCroix on April 04, 2016, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2016, 09:02:34 PMWaste not want not. :)
but everyone wastes a little. eating the nasty bits nobody ever eats simply to not waste. where does it stop? mcdonald ketchup packets rather than waste $ on the bottle?
I bet the non (comparatively) impoverished cavemen tossed away some parts
I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking if there was value to keeping and using the head in cooking. I knew that it was a delicacy in some places, and was looking for suggestions on what those might be. As has been shown in this thread, there are those who do, indeed, consider foods made with the head worthwhile. If I have it, and there is good food to be made with it, then why would I waste it?
In answer to your question, my research shows that historically speaking, only in the more modern era do we throw away so much of the carcass. I've been digging specifically into 13th and 14th century cooking in England, and there are recipes for most parts of the animal. If not for cooking, then they are used for other things, ie leathercrafting and wool rugs. The hooves are used for glue, and the bones are used for a variety of things like needles, dice, bone folders, and quite a bit more.
Given that it's usually pretty hard to get those kinds of things from the grocery store - or even a butcher - having my own sheep with which to get them is a big boon, and not something I'm going to have the opportunity to do very often. (Especially since my breeding sheep only had females.)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 04, 2016, 10:16:22 PM
How about waiting for shit to grow up first before killing it and chopping its fucking head off for a soup bone. Goddamn.
:blink:
They're more than a year old. That's actually twice the typical life of a lamb from the store. And they've had a wonderful life. They've lived on a large pasture, grazing as they please, and getting grain to supplement during the winter. These sheep have had it good, especially compared to the stuff you get in the store.
Quote from: PDH on April 04, 2016, 10:17:19 PM
Actually, I would not be surprised if foragers didn't eat every part of an animal - with a low population and good methods to gather resources they likely had surpluses at times, thus the domestication of dogs.
Now farmers, they HAD to use everything because often time they were closer to the edge of starvation. Also, blood sausage needs a cookpot after all.
Most hunter/gatherers found use for most of the carcass. Those bone needles didn't come from wheat. ;)
I figure the "hunter gatheres used EVERYTHING!" myth is up there with the idea that they all were peaceful and lived in respect and care for their environment. IE, a complete figment of modern wishful thinking.
I am quite sure they used exactly as much as was useful to them, and not a bit more. I doubt they went out of their way to create uses so they could be sure to waste nothing.
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!". In fact, we know that there were times that they were incredibly wasteful - even shockingly so.
"We need some buffalo meat! Hunting them is a lot of work! How about we drive that herd over that cliff even though we could not possibly use all that meat? Works for me!"
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 10:46:24 AM
I figure the "hunter gatheres used EVERYTHING!" myth is up there with the idea that they all were peaceful and lived in respect and care for their environment. IE, a complete figment of modern wishful thinking.
I am quite sure they used exactly as much as was useful to them, and not a bit more. I doubt they went out of their way to create uses so they could be sure to waste nothing.
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!". In fact, we know that there were times that they were incredibly wasteful - even shockingly so.
"We need some buffalo meat! Hunting them is a lot of work! How about we drive that herd over that cliff even though we could not possibly use all that meat? Works for me!"
Yup. The thing most hunter-gatherers did not want to waste was their effort. ;)
Another thing to keep in mind is that the hunter-gatherers we know of from historic periods almost without exception lived in relatively marginal lands (the one major exception was the West Coast native Americans, who lived off the salmon run; maybe also the great plains tribes of NA, depending on whether one views the great plains as marginal). The reason: they were pushed off of better lands by farmers in prehistoric times.
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 10:46:24 AM
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!".
Was anyone saying that though? Presumably it was being said because logically it seems easier to use all usable bits of the animal you already have killed then seeking out a new animal to kill.
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 10:46:24 AM
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!".
Was anyone saying that though? Presumably it was being said because logically it seems easier to use all usable bits of the animal you already have killed then seeking out a new animal to kill.
That certainly seems to be the implication as an answer to the question of "Why do anything with the head?".
IE, if we want to do as they did, we have to use everything whether we want to or not - that waste is by definition to be avoided as a principle in and of itself.
Anyone here tried bear? Bear fat was apparently a delicacy in certain Amerindian tribes.
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/ (http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/)
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 10:46:24 AM
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!".
Was anyone saying that though? Presumably it was being said because logically it seems easier to use all usable bits of the animal you already have killed then seeking out a new animal to kill.
Depends on circumstances.
There were limits, for example, on the willingness and ability of HGs to preserve meat.
There were ways to do it - such as "pemmican" - but it didn't work with all kinds of meat. As it turns out, and particularly in temperate climes, various foods (such as animals) tend to be super-abundant for limited periods of time - when you can get buffalo, you can get lots of buffalo; when you can get salmon, you can get lots of salmon - so HGs would get as much as they can and preserve the preservible bits, and leave the rest to rot.
There is lots of evidence of this sort of 'overkill'.
Quote from: Legbiter on April 05, 2016, 11:04:26 AM
Anyone here tried bear? Bear fat was apparently a delicacy in certain Amerindian tribes.
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/ (http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/)
I've had bear bologna. It was gamey.
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 11:03:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2016, 10:46:24 AM
In other words, they were not driven by any principle of "do not waste!".
Was anyone saying that though? Presumably it was being said because logically it seems easier to use all usable bits of the animal you already have killed then seeking out a new animal to kill.
That certainly seems to be the implication as an answer to the question of "Why do anything with the head?".
IE, if we want to do as they did, we have to use everything whether we want to or not - that waste is by definition to be avoided as a principle in and of itself.
I certainly wasn't saying "If we want to do as they did". I was saying, "I have this bit that I don't normally have access to. Is it worth keeping, and if so, why?"