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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:35:23 PM

Title: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:35:23 PM
QuoteTristin Hopper: The $600 million Edmonton train that snarls traffic, slows down transit times and increases emissions

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Tristin Hopper | January 5, 2016 4:49 PM ET
More from Tristin Hopper | @TristinHopper

Canada needs public transit. We have clogged roads, densifying cities and — save for this weird Saudi Arabian orchestrated oil glut — rising fuel prices.

Bike lanes won't fix it and new highways won't fix it; the only way we can live in a Canada that isn't a squished, congested mess is if we spruce up the place with a whole bunch of trains, buses and subways.

Which is why, to ensure the prosperous and happy future of this great country, we must all now take a look at the City of Edmonton and solemnly vow to do the exact opposite of whatever the hell they just did with their new $665 million Metro Line LRT.

Edmonton's LRT project is the equivalent of a candy company releasing a new chocolate bar called Herpes Al-Qaeda
It's slower than a bus. It has slowed down the buses that existed. And it is almost certainly increasing Edmonton's net amount of carbon emissions. In short, it fails on every single possible justification for why cities should build light rail.

I am a fervent — almost fanatical — supporter of public transit. I've taken pleasure trips to foreign cities largely to soak up the sublime efficiency of an S-Bahn or a New York City A-train. But lately  I have trouble sleeping until I comfort myself with visions of the Metro Line LRT tracks being torn up, French résistance-style, so the tyrannical train can never, ever run again.

"We fully respect that it's different and taking longer," said Craig Walbaum, Edmonton's director of traffic engineering, shortly after the train's September launch.

But before designing a single new subway line or streetcar lane, be cognizant of one ironclad maxim; don't let idiots build your transit.
The chief problem is that the train was built at grade and cleaves through several major intersections. Traffic needs to be halted well in advance of its arrival, leading to the Kafkaesque nightmare of an intersection where all sides are given a red light for up to 90 seconds before a train arrives (if it does at all).

I've personally clocked a six-minute wait. A co-worker clocked an incredible 12 minutes. Online, disbelieving drivers have taken to Reddit to report waits of 15 minutes.

To put it in context, that's about half the time needed to cross the entire city by highway from one "Welcome to Edmonton" sign to the other.

During these frequent traffic stoppages, a huge swath of northern Edmonton becomes a gridlocked nightmare of idling cars, trucks and city buses.

I've counted as many as four buses filled with a cumulative 40 people forced to wait the entire length of Gordon Lightfoot's Canadian Railroad Trilogy (6:22) just so a train can pass by carrying fewer than half a dozen passengers.

The delays are so bad, in fact, that Edmonton has had to add six new buses to the schedule — at the cost of several extra bathtubs of diesel fuel per week.

But at least the train passengers are getting a speedy ride to downtown, right? Nope. Say I want to go from the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology to pay a visit to my local Postmedia property, the Edmonton Journal.

Just after 5 p.m., I board the LRT at an on-campus station and arrive 17 minutes later at a stop almost within sight of the Journal. If I take the good old-fashioned number nine bus instead, I make the trip in 14 minutes — a savings of 20 per cent.

And did I mention that the Metro Line is right next to a major hospital? Ambulances can't drive through railway barriers, even if they're in a hurry. Thus, any Edmontonian unlucky enough to have a heart attack in one of the northwestern quadrants of the city must wait as paramedics wend a circuitous route through downtown.

Taken together, the whole project is the equivalent of a candy company releasing a new chocolate bar called Herpes Al-Qaeda. I struggle to understand how such an obviously horrific idea was able to pass so many levels of approval and be unleashed on an innocent and unsuspecting citizenry. And I've lived in Toronto.

Part of the problem is that a Thales Canada-designed signalling system continues to malfunction, limiting trains to a top speed of 25 km/h (I cycle during the winter, and can outpedal the things).

But more amazingly, Edmonton officials knew full well this traffic apocalypse was coming. In fact, they thought it would be worse.

According to city estimates released just before the first trains started rolling in September, vehicles were expected to be waiting 16 minutes every time the train passed. During peak hours, cars would have to wait up to four light cycles — a level of congestion virtually unknown in the relatively traffic-free Alberta capital.

Oh, and the new system breaks down all the time (11 times in November), leaving intersections clogged interminably until somebody figures out what's wrong.

"Anyone dead?" Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson asked a December council meeting during a discussion of the ongoing Metro Line crisis.

When the answer came back negative, he responded, "okay, so this thing is not a total disaster."

Well sure, but let's conservatively estimate that 40 vehicles are forced to wait six minutes every time the train goes by. If each of those cars only has one passenger, that's four hours of wasted human life with every passage of the Metro Line LRT.

At 70 trips daily, that's 280 hours of life a day. So every year, under optimum conditions the Metro Line LRT extinguishes enough human existence to equal the total waking life of a 15-year-old.

And that's not even accounting for the spiritual cost of idling at an intersection with no green lights, staring at a track with no train and wondering at the cruel deity who forsook you.

By all accounts, Canada stands on the cusp of a transit infrastructure boom akin to the highway-building boom of the 1950s.

We have a Liberal government that has pledged to build $6 billion of public transit over the next four years, and $20 billion by 2025. We are seeing the imposition of carbon taxes and climate change legislation that make the economics of public transit more feasible than ever. And we are seeing a generation of new transit-riding workers who are happy to  shun driver's licenses altogether.

But before designing a single new subway line or streetcar lane, be cognizant of one ironclad maxim; don't let idiots build your transit.

Recently, a referendum to fund critical Metro Vancouver transportation infrastructure with a sales tax levy was roundly rejected. The "no" vote succeeded largely on the strength of a campaign led by the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation to convince Metro Vancouverites that TransLink, the regional transit authority, was full of untrustworthy spendthrifts.

I suspect the people of Edmonton would be similarly sympathetic to such a claim. They live in a city, after all, that openly agreed to keep them away from their family for an extra 32 minutes each day as penance for running a near-empty 25 km/h train to downtown.

It's why I urge you, policymakers of Canada; come to Edmonton. Examine its failure. Immerse yourself in its incompetence. Gawk at its ineptitude.

Because if this happens again, good luck trying to convince decent, right-thinking people that a light-rail project will bring them anything except misery and pain.

National Post
[email protected]
Twitter.com/TristinHopper

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/tristin-hopper-the-600-million-edmonton-train-that-snarls-traffic-slows-down-transit-times-and-increases-emissions
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: mongers on January 06, 2016, 05:43:26 PM
Sounds like Al-Qaeda have taken up a new attack vector*





* And no I don't know or care what that means, it just kinda sounded securityish**.




** New word, first use on the whole wide web, here at dear old languish. :proud:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Liep on January 06, 2016, 05:45:03 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 06, 2016, 05:43:26 PM
securityish**.

** New word, first use on the whole wide web, here at dear old languish. :proud:

That certainly isn't true, but I do believe that sentence to be unique.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2016, 05:50:08 PM
#1 tourist attraction in DC is the Metro.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Liep on January 06, 2016, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

There are plenty of train nerds about, surely the A-train has something to offer. Especially if you're from a city that has such incompetent metro offerings.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)

Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling. I just looked at it was ranked 16 out of 19 lines last year by the Straphangers group. :D

edit: or rather tied for 16th out of the 20 lines.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)

Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

Tell it to Duke Ellington.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on January 06, 2016, 05:56:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2016, 05:50:08 PM
#1 tourist attraction in DC is the Metro.

Not for long, at the rate it's deteriorating.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)

Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

Tell it to Duke Ellington.

I'm not sure why I'd want a speedy trip to Harlem. Also, I'm sure things have changed since last century. :P
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Josquius on January 06, 2016, 05:59:41 PM
Sounds worse than Edinburgh trams.
Which is an achievement. 
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: DGuller on January 06, 2016, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)

Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling. I just looked at it was ranked 16 out of 19 lines last year by the Straphangers group. :D

edit: or rather tied for 16th out of the 20 lines.
:yes: I'd take the Q line from end to end.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: celedhring on January 06, 2016, 07:58:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:45:53 PM
He took a pleasure trip to see the A-train? :hmm:

I hope he was exagerrating, but as a tourist to New York one of the "experiences" I had to do was ride the subway. :)

Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

Tell it to Duke Ellington.

I'm not sure why I'd want a speedy trip to Harlem. Also, I'm sure things have changed since last century. :P

Well, when I lived up there I wanted a speedy trip *out* of Harlem  :P
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 09:26:11 PM
Daejeon is building a public tram line to compliment the subway line, I'm sure it will have many similar effects. Edmonton is leading the way!  :w00t:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.

Depends on the country. Every one uses it in Korea.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.

Depends on the country. Every one uses it in Korea.

Exactly
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:31:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.

Depends on the country. Every one uses it in Korea.

Exactly

S. Korea's per capita GDP is $27,513, two spots behind Italy and one ahead of Spain for 28th in the world by IMF's 2015 rankings. Not a poor country.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: lustindarkness on January 06, 2016, 10:44:37 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:31:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 06, 2016, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.

Depends on the country. Every one uses it in Korea.

Exactly

S. Korea's per capita GDP is $27,513, two spots behind Italy and one ahead of Spain for 28th in the world by IMF's 2015 rankings. Not a poor country.

So you are saying they are all hobo's?
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2016, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportation is for hobo's and poor people.

I take the bus and train to work everyday (though thankfully not the accursed Metro Line mentioned in the article). :)
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Josquius on January 07, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 06, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
City Public Transportationcars is for hobo's lazy and poor people.
Grammatically dubiously fixed
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: celedhring on January 07, 2016, 03:27:01 AM
Light trains are a delicate affair. The ones we have in Barcelona work pretty well, but they now want to extend the line through the busiest thoroughfare in town and I'm afraid it will have similar effects to Edmonton - creating more trouble than it solves.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:27:10 AM
Owning a car isn't cheap.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 03:31:05 AM
This means, as noticed elsewhere, than tramways/light trail sharing the road with cars is not optimal. Ergo, separate but more expensive tracks are better. Not exactly groundbreaking, the messy U-Bahn/Straßenbahn in Frankfurt sharing the streets with cars and busses was not exactly great too.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 07, 2016, 04:40:40 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 07, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
City Public Transportationcars is for hobo's lazy and poor people.

Cause the cool kids all have space ships.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 07, 2016, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 03:31:05 AM
This means, as noticed elsewhere, than tramways/light trail sharing the road with cars is not optimal. Ergo, separate but more expensive tracks are better. Not exactly groundbreaking, the messy U-Bahn/Straßenbahn in Frankfurt sharing the streets with cars and busses was not exactly great too.

I don't think that's the lesson here.  Edmonton's existing system is mostly above-ground and crosses many roads - it works out just fine.

The rant I linked to only touches on the problem, which is that the signalling system for the new line simply doesn't work.  It is supposed to mesh with the existing system which was built 30-40 years ago, and it just doesn't do the job.  The new line was fully built but sat idle for almost a year because they couldn't get the signals working.

Eventually in order to try and salvage something from the situation they opened the new line but it operates purely manually.  This means the trains are limited to a very leisurely 25 km/h, trains are limited to only 3 cars*, and traffic lights are all turned to red long before a train approaches an intersection.

So I don't know if the problem was with the city, or with the contractor.  It seems destined for a huge lawsuit eventually, though the two continue to try and work out a solution.  But it has been a major, though hopefully unique, fuck up.



*The three car trains are my pet peeve, since I don't ride on the new Metro line.  But those trains do eventually hoook up to the part of the system I ride on.  So now, instead of every train being 5 cars at peak hours, every 2nd or 3rd train is only 3 cars, which makes it incredibly crowded.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:05:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 07, 2016, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 03:31:05 AM
This means, as noticed elsewhere, than tramways/light trail sharing the road with cars is not optimal. Ergo, separate but more expensive tracks are better. Not exactly groundbreaking, the messy U-Bahn/Straßenbahn in Frankfurt sharing the streets with cars and busses was not exactly great too.

I don't think that's the lesson here.  Edmonton's existing system is mostly above-ground and crosses many roads - it works out just fine.

The rant I linked to only touches on the problem, which is that the signalling system for the new line simply doesn't work.  It is supposed to mesh with the existing system which was built 30-40 years ago, and it just doesn't do the job.  The new line was fully built but sat idle for almost a year because they couldn't get the signals working.

Eventually in order to try and salvage something from the situation they opened the new line but it operates purely manually.  This means the trains are limited to a very leisurely 25 km/h, trains are limited to only 3 cars*, and traffic lights are all turned to red long before a train approaches an intersection.

So I don't know if the problem was with the city, or with the contractor.  It seems destined for a huge lawsuit eventually, though the two continue to try and work out a solution.  But it has been a major, though hopefully unique, fuck up.



*The three car trains are my pet peeve, since I don't ride on the new Metro line.  But those trains do eventually hoook up to the part of the system I ride on.  So now, instead of every train being 5 cars at peak hours, every 2nd or 3rd train is only 3 cars, which makes it incredibly crowded.

:blink:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Barrister on January 07, 2016, 01:11:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:05:08 PM
:blink:

Indeed. <_<
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 01:21:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 07, 2016, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 03:31:05 AM
This means, as noticed elsewhere, than tramways/light rail sharing the road with cars is not optimal. Ergo, separate but more expensive tracks are better. Not exactly groundbreaking, the messy U-Bahn/Straßenbahn in Frankfurt sharing the streets with cars and busses was not exactly great too.

I don't think that's the lesson here.  Edmonton's existing system is mostly above-ground and crosses many roads - it works out just fine.

The rant I linked to only touches on the problem, which is that the signalling system for the new line simply doesn't work.  It is supposed to mesh with the existing system which was built 30-40 years ago, and it just doesn't do the job.  The new line was fully built but sat idle for almost a year because they couldn't get the signals working.

Eventually in order to try and salvage something from the situation they opened the new line but it operates purely manually.  This means the trains are limited to a very leisurely 25 km/h, trains are limited to only 3 cars*, and traffic lights are all turned to red long before a train approaches an intersection.

So I don't know if the problem was with the city, or with the contractor.  It seems destined for a huge lawsuit eventually, though the two continue to try and work out a solution.  But it has been a major, though hopefully unique, fuck up.


I see what you mean, the signaling makes it even worse, almost in a laughable manner, but even in normal conditions problems are to be expected. Above-ground system can be separated from the roads too.
OTOH, i remember the fiasco when they chose a pneumatic tramway network for a French city with lots of snow during the winter. Sounds incredible? Well, it's Clermont-Ferrand, Michelin capital.  :lol:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Grey Fox on January 07, 2016, 01:38:47 PM
Only Alberta could make Montreal's transit system look downright awesome.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

OK katmai.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:56:19 PM
The seats are all weird which mostly prevents moving your empty spaces on the train when crowded.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2016, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

It has the song. 
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Grey Fox on January 07, 2016, 03:09:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

It's from another time but the transit system is more than just the Subway.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:14:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2016, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

It has the song. 

Wiki has some handy facts:

The 6 has 2 songs about it and inspired the title of Jennifer Lopez's first album. Of course 6 is pretty awful...but then it does boast impressive ridership by its lonesome.

The A looks to have 3-4 songs, including a mention by Azealia Banks.

D train gets 8 song mentions including tracks by Bob Dylan, Yoko Ono and two by the Beastie boys.

Indirect mentions of 4,5,6 by Velvet Underground

F at least has one mention, and L train has a few including the fact that it 'is a swell train'.

Then I had to stop as there are apparently too many people happy to sing about way too many of the lines. :Embarrass:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Caliga on January 07, 2016, 03:23:40 PM
It seems like public transit in Chicago is like the worst ever.  One of my homies is late to work almost every day due to something happening on the subway.  Here's stuff that I can recall coming up to make him late:

* someone died on the train
* the train hit someone
* people fighting on the train
* the conductor passed out
* the trains all broke down at once
* one train broke down and held the rest up
* a crazy homeless guy got on the train and started harassing all of the women

This last one happened just yesterday to him.

When I lived in Boston and took public transit, stuff like this rarely if ever happened.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:41:51 PM
I liked when I lived there that the train just fell of theach tracks.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: katmai on January 07, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

OK katmai.
raciss
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 03:51:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:14:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2016, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

It has the song. 

Wiki has some handy facts:

The 6 has 2 songs about it and inspired the title of Jennifer Lopez's first album. Of course 6 is pretty awful...but then it does boast impressive ridership by its lonesome.

The A looks to have 3-4 songs, including a mention by Azealia Banks.

D train gets 8 song mentions including tracks by Bob Dylan, Yoko Ono and two by the Beastie boys.

Indirect mentions of 4,5,6 by Velvet Underground

F at least has one mention, and L train has a few including the fact that it 'is a swell train'.

Then I had to stop as there are apparently too many people happy to sing about way too many of the lines. :Embarrass:

I sing of trains and the man, he who, exiled by fate,

first came from the coast to NYC, and to

American shores – hurled about endlessly by land and under,

by the will of the MTA, by cruel Transit Authority's remorseless anger,

long suffering also on busses, until he found his destination

and brought his goods to Gotham: from there the downtown people

came, the lords of Manhattan, inside the walls of noble New York.

Muse, tell me the cause: how the MTA was offended in its divinity,

how was it grieved, the Queen of Civil Servants, to drive a man,

noted for virtue, to endure such dangers, to face so many

trials? Can there be such anger in the minds of bureaucrats?
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 07, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

OK katmai.
raciss
White people.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Josquius on January 07, 2016, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:27:10 AM
Owning a car isn't cheap.
Cheaper than living centrally.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Valmy on January 07, 2016, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 07, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

OK katmai.
raciss
White people.

Yo momma
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 07, 2016, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:27:10 AM
Owning a car isn't cheap.
Cheaper than living centrally.
Until recently, I was always living centrally with a car. :weep:
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 07, 2016, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 07, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 07, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 01:48:57 PM
Apart from the train interiors being smaller than I would have liked, I don't recall any negative experiences with the Montreal subway.

OK katmai.
raciss
White people.

Yo momma

No, she is just one white person.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 11, 2016, 02:23:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2016, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Well sure, the subway system is great - but the A-train is not the line to be extolling.

It has the song.

:yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY)
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 11, 2016, 03:12:43 AM
Yes, dear, BBC brought that up on page 1.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 11, 2016, 04:09:51 AM
You seemed to be trying to disagree.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 11, 2016, 04:22:13 AM
I disagree with that song being relevant nor do I find it enjoyable.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 11, 2016, 04:09:51 AM
You seemed to be trying to disagree.
It's his shtick.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 11, 2016, 09:35:56 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 11, 2016, 04:09:51 AM
You seemed to be trying to disagree.
It's his shtick.

I don't dislike all things. I do dislike that song and find it irrelevant for the discussion.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 11, 2016, 10:32:20 AM
Which train a journalist chooses to pine over may be less about the experience itself and more about the reputation among his readers.
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 11, 2016, 09:35:56 AM
I don't dislike all things. I do dislike that song and find it irrelevant for the discussion.

Heaven forbid we discuss things you find irrelevant! 
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 11, 2016, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 11, 2016, 09:35:56 AM
I don't dislike all things. I do dislike that song and find it irrelevant for the discussion.

Heaven forbid we discuss things you find irrelevant! 

I think you can but that doesn't make the posts being discussed part of a shtick. :o
Title: Re: How not to do public transit
Post by: garbon on January 11, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 11, 2016, 10:32:20 AM
Which train a journalist chooses to pine over may be less about the experience itself and more about the reputation among his readers.

Maybe.