http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-the-netherlands-exchange-land-because-it-makes-sense?CMP=fb_gu (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-the-netherlands-exchange-land-because-it-makes-sense?CMP=fb_gu)
QuoteThroughout history, borders have caused unfathomable bloodshed, ageless feuds and decades-old legal disputes, which makes plans for a friendly exchange of land between the Netherlands and Belgium all the more remarkable.
The reason for such magnanimity? "Because it makes sense to do so," says Marcel Neven, the mayor of Vise, Belgium.
Well, that and perhaps a little help from a headless body.
While Belgium will be losing a splendid piece of nature that juts into the Meuse river dividing the two nations, it will also unburden itself of a jurisdictional nightmare that developed over time as the river meandered to turn the portion of land belonging to Belgium — about 15 soccer fields' worth — into a peninsula linked only to the Netherlands.
Over time, the area was rumoured to be increasingly lawless, a haven for drug dealers and illicit sexual escapades. Then, three years ago, passersby discovered a headless body. "They alerted Dutch authorities, who told them it was Belgian territory," said Jean-Francois Duchesne, police commissaire of the Lower Meuse region.
In short, the Dutch could not go there because it was Belgian, and Belgian police and judicial authorities found it tough to get there. They are not allowed to cross into the Netherlands without permission and the peninsula had no proper landing zone for boats or equipment coming in by water.
"So we had to go there by boat with all that was needed — the prosecutor, the legal doctor, the judicial lab — we had to do round trips over the water. It really was not very practical," Duchesne said.
And beyond that, Neven remembered: "You had to jump from the boat on to the shore. You needed to be in shape for this."
But soon there will be no more wading in water, and a peaceful swap should be reality.
We should have done it a long time ago," Neven said.
I wonder if anyone will notice if I put in a sentence about pigs having six legs right here.
Preparatory work has been done and the two countries' parliaments should be able to complete a deal some time in 2016, Neven said, almost two centuries after the 1843 border posts were set. And all with a smile on everyone's face, even though Belgium will get only a tiny part around a lock that has been built to promote traffic between the two countries.
"In essence, it is very rare but it can happen," said barrister Malcolm Shaw, an expert on international border disputes. He highlighted how complicated history has woven the borders in the area close to where Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany touch, leaving enclaves and strangely twisted borders.
Border swaps can happen but mostly after bitter quarrels.
On the Indian-Bangladeshi border this summer, a dispute that raged since India's independence from British colonialists in 1947 was settled when the countries swapped more than 150 pockets of land.
Earlier this month, it took the United Nations' highest court to settle a dispute between two Central American nations. The court ruled that Nicaragua violated Costa Rica's territorial integrity in a longstanding fight over a small chunk of land near the shores of the Caribbean Sea.
Belgian military historian Luc De Vos said that friendship between neighbours makes all the difference.
"It is possible between Belgium and the Netherlands because these countries have a lot of ties for centuries and after the second world war territory was no longer that important," De Vos said.
-End Communication
Make sense of this then
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg/2000px-Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg.png)
Thought it was that town when I read the headline.
Though I guess if it ever was proposed to 'fix' that then the locals would be up in arms, it's their claim to fame and source of tourism.
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Where do the six legged pigs come into play?
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
:D
Quote from: Liep on December 30, 2015, 12:44:46 PM
Make sense of this then
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg/2000px-Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg.png)
that's nothing. You should take a look at border between India and Bangladesh. (insofar they didn't resolve that, as they reduced the enclave-exclave insanity a bit)
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Belgium as a whole would be better of as part of the Netherlands. It would also make the plural correct again: Southern and Northern Netherlands finally reunited
In this post nationalism era (at least for the developed western world--sorry Russia you aren't included), corrections like this are common sense. I think another one that would make sense is for the US to annex the Canadian oil fields. If some retrograde Canadian nationalists object, we shouldn't allow them to stand in the way of rationality and progress.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 30, 2015, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Belgium as a whole would be better of as part of the Netherlands. It would also make the plural correct again: Southern and Northern Netherlands finally reunited
:rolleyes:
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2015, 03:13:13 PM
In this post nationalism era (at least for the developed western world--sorry Russia you aren't included), corrections like this are common sense. I think another one that would make sense is for the US to annex the Canadian oil fields. If some retrograde Canadian nationalists object, we shouldn't allow them to stand in the way of rationality and progress.
Also, there needs to be a land connection to Alaska. Vancouver and coastal BC, welcome to the USA!
We could probably buy Alberta for a couple hundred bucks right now.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2015, 03:40:53 PM
We could probably buy Alberta for a couple hundred bucks right now.
Yeah, but only if we agree to keep all of the Albertans. No, thanks.
Quote from: Martinus on December 30, 2015, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 30, 2015, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Belgium as a whole would be better of as part of the Netherlands. It would also make the plural correct again: Southern and Northern Netherlands finally reunited
:rolleyes:
Oh come on, there's no need for that -
everybody forgets Luxembourg...
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 30, 2015, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Belgium as a whole would be better of as part of the Netherlands. It would also make the plural correct again: Southern and Northern Netherlands finally reunited
Yes but would the Netherlands be better off? :P
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2015, 04:09:24 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 30, 2015, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 30, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
They'll be better off as part of The Netherlands; the weather is a bit better than in Belgium. ;)
Belgium as a whole would be better of as part of the Netherlands. It would also make the plural correct again: Southern and Northern Netherlands finally reunited
Yes but would the Netherlands be better off? :P
depends, but likely to be yes.
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2015, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 30, 2015, 04:39:07 PM
depends, but likely to be yes.
Well then do it I say!
Hell no. The major practical change of uniting the benelux countries is that it will create a soccer team the US will be miles from competing with. Netherlands and Belgium are a lot better than us as it is.
They're not in North America, so their better soccer team won't have a significant impact on US soccer performance. Remember, they're opening up a spot for a less talented team if they combine(which the UK doesn't do, so not a given).
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2015, 03:13:13 PM
In this post nationalism era (at least for the developed western world--sorry Russia you aren't included), corrections like this are common sense. I think another one that would make sense is for the US to annex the Canadian oil fields. If some retrograde Canadian nationalists object, we shouldn't allow them to stand in the way of rationality and progress.
Surely annexing Alaska to Canada is the sensbile thing there?
Though I would pity the Canadians in that case....
Quote from: DGuller on December 30, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2015, 03:40:53 PM
We could probably buy Alberta for a couple hundred bucks right now.
Yeah, but only if we agree to keep all of the Albertans. No, thanks.
Ethnic cleansing ftw.
Quote from: Tyr on December 30, 2015, 05:46:12 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 30, 2015, 03:13:13 PM
In this post nationalism era (at least for the developed western world--sorry Russia you aren't included), corrections like this are common sense. I think another one that would make sense is for the US to annex the Canadian oil fields. If some retrograde Canadian nationalists object, we shouldn't allow them to stand in the way of rationality and progress.
Surely annexing Alaska to Canada is the sensbile thing there?
Crime against huge manatee.
Quote from: Tyr on December 30, 2015, 05:46:12 PM
Surely annexing Alaska to Canada is the sensbile thing there?
Not at all. Canada already lacks the population to exploit their own territory properly.
What about the six legged pigs?
Ask the Brain about them if you really want all the (un)savory details about them.
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 30, 2015, 06:57:34 PM
What about the six legged pigs?
I hope you weren't the only one to notice that.
Four legs good, six legs better? :hmm:
I thought they swapped some enclaves at Baarle-Hertog.
While I do love Dutch girls I'm quite sure I'd flee the country if we ever become part of the Netherlands.
Quote from: DGuller on December 30, 2015, 08:31:16 PM
Four legs good, six legs better? :hmm:
It is for me. I'm all for maximizing the number of Iberian hams in circulation. :licklips:
Quote from: Iormlund on December 31, 2015, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 30, 2015, 08:31:16 PM
Four legs good, six legs better? :hmm:
It is for me. I'm all for maximizing the number of Iberian hams in circulation. :licklips:
If it can lower the price of jamón ibérico I'm all for it. :w00t:
Serrano is surprisingly affordable here; much cheaper than Parma or San Daniele.
Quote from: Syt on December 31, 2015, 08:47:09 AM
Serrano is surprisingly affordable here; much cheaper than Parma or San Daniele.
Serrano ham are for poor people.
:Embarrass:
I'm glad the conversation has moved on to more important things, like ham.