I've been kind of really interested in the entire Adnan Syed/Serial/Undisclosed case.
I am still pretty much at a loss as to whether or not he killed his girlfriend 16 years ago, but the process is simply fascinating.
The criminal justice system itself, is fascinating.
I actually thought about how interesting a job it would be to work there on the DA side a few years ago.
Now I am fascinated from the other side.
In any case though, I guess it is a bit too late to run off to law school and look to get into becoming a defense attorney, or even a district attorney.
Sigh. It kind of sucks we only get the one life to live...
If Walt Kurtz could do jump school at 39 then why not?
A little early for a midlife crisis, no?
Some of the best lawyers I have ever known went to law school as mature students. One of my long time partners was a psychiatric head nurse before going to law school. Another fellow had been a commercial pilot first. He went on to become the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of British Columbia. Both those people used their knowledge and experience to good advantage when they turned to practicing law.
You have a very good analytical mind. Plus you have a wealth of technical knowledge that would assist you in a number of practice areas. You would make a very good lawyer. The tradeoff is whether you can take the financial hit of going back to school.
Psychiatric head nurse? Wtf other kinds of psychiatric nurse would even make sense?
Berkut, I don't know that I'd advise you to drop everything and go to law school...
...but A: 43 is not too old. I've known lots of lawyers who have come to the law later in life. and,
B: Criminal law really is kind of cool. I attended a presentation today on ongoing victimization from online child pornography. How these people as kids were of course sexually abused - that was one thing and they could grow and move on from. But now years later these pictures are still coming up and being downloaded by up to millions of people. It was just stuff I'd never thought of before and found it really interesting.
But of course, law school means three years of zero income, plus you'd be starting out at the bottom rung of the ladder once you do graduate.
Quote from: The Brain on November 10, 2015, 04:28:31 PM
Psychiatric head nurse? Wtf other kinds of psychiatric nurse would even make sense?
head nurse, as in the one who is in charge. ;)
You can start by representing yourself and just take it from there.
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2015, 04:28:51 PM
Berkut, I don't know that I'd advise you to drop everything and go to law school...
...but A: 43 is not too old. I've known lots of lawyers who have come to the law later in life. and,
B: Criminal law really is kind of cool. I attended a presentation today on ongoing victimization from online child pornography. How these people as kids were of course sexually abused - that was one thing and they could grow and move on from. But now years later these pictures are still coming up and being downloaded by up to millions of people. It was just stuff I'd never thought of before and found it really interesting.
But of course, law school means three years of zero income, plus you'd be starting out at the bottom rung of the ladder once you do graduate.
The other caveat I would add Berkut is that very few people end up practicing in the area they thought they were interested in. You risk becoming a high end litigator like JR :smoke:
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 10, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
The other caveat I would add Berkut is that very few people end up practicing in the area they thought they were interested in. You risk becoming a high end litigator like JR :smoke:
While true, that's largely because most people go to law school when they're young and they have very confused ideas about what life as a lawyer would be like.
Just to not feed into Berkut's mid-life crisis... Working on a homicide case is indeed fascinating. If I ever meet up with Berkut again I could go on for hours about my homicide. But that's a small minority of the kind of work I do. Let's see right now... I'm reviewing a file where a guy broke into a parking garage, smashed some windows, and stole whatever he could. I'm going through trying to match up which witnesses we need for a trial to be held in March. Then I'm going through a bunch of files to decide if either we, or the Feds, will prosecute. Then I'll probably write up some resolution offers. On Thursday I need to do some legal research, and on Friday I have a domestic assault trial. Precisely none of this is interesting or exciting.
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2015, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 10, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
The other caveat I would add Berkut is that very few people end up practicing in the area they thought they were interested in. You risk becoming a high end litigator like JR :smoke:
While true, that's largely because most people go to law school when they're young and they have very confused ideas about what life as a lawyer would be like.
Naw, I think what is more significant is that people really don't have a good idea of all the things lawyers do. All they really see on TV is criminal lawyers and perhaps some unrealistic portrayals of commercial solicitors or litigators. Once they realize there are many more types of law people tend to migrate away from their initial preconceptions, regardless of age.
There is definitely a need for more good public defenders, if you are prepared to deal with the chronic under-funding, ridiculously high caseloads, and the general frustrations of the system.
I know a guy your age who worked as lawyer for a while in one specialty, then went into (non legal) business for a number of years, then came back to the law as a first year law associate in a completely different area. So non-traditional paths are possible, with the right skill and luck.
Quote from: The Brain on November 10, 2015, 04:29:41 PM
You can start by representing yourself and just take it from there.
:lol:
I think CC doesn't appreciate your humour.
I think opportunity cost is the real issue here, not age :ph34r:
Where is Ide when you need him the most? ;)
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2015, 04:39:06 PM
If I ever meet up with Berkut again I could go on for hours about my homicide.
:boff:
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 04:15:53 PM
Sigh. It kind of sucks we only get the one life to live...
Tell that to millions of Hindus. ;)
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 04:15:53 PM
The criminal justice system itself, is fascinating.
In a clusterfuck kind of way. :(
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 04:15:53 PM
I've been kind of really interested in the entire Adnan Syed/Serial/Undisclosed case.
I am still pretty much at a loss as to whether or not he killed his girlfriend 16 years ago, but the process is simply fascinating.
The criminal justice system itself, is fascinating.
I actually thought about how interesting a job it would be to work there on the DA side a few years ago.
Now I am fascinated from the other side.
In any case though, I guess it is a bit too late to run off to law school and look to get into becoming a defense attorney, or even a district attorney.
Sigh. It kind of sucks we only get the one life to live...
Never too old if that's what you want to do. Good luck.
There's still a JD glut Thrombosis. Don't do it.
Where's Ide? He might have a few words for you.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2015, 09:10:17 PM
There's still a JD glut Thrombosis. Don't do it.
But not an LL.B. glut. In fact we're getting more and more scarce as time goes by. :cool:
Yeah, if I did anything like this, and of course I am not because how would I pay my mortgage, it would be because I have a very specific idea of what I want - and that is to be a criminal defense attorney or prosecutor.
So while I get that there are too many lawyers in general out there, I suspect there is hardly a glut of people willing to go work for the PD office, for example.
This had better not be so you can put members on Languish in jail.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:23:32 PM
This had better not be so you can put members on Languish in jail.
gaol. The word is gaol.
:shifty:
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:00:04 PM
Yeah, if I did anything like this, and of course I am not because how would I pay my mortgage, it would be because I have a very specific idea of what I want - and that is to be a criminal defense attorney or prosecutor.
So while I get that there are too many lawyers in general out there, I suspect there is hardly a glut of people willing to go work for the PD office, for example.
this is a massive myth. it's almost as bad as "i want to practice international law" that you see posted on law school internet boards/forums. any government job is incredibly competitive. there are so many 3Ls at every law school (except maybe harvard, yale, stanford) who would kill for a PD gig.
(edit) i'd ignore the canucks. their legal market seems to be operated in a way where going to law school = get legal job. that's not the case in the U.S. if you don't believe me, check every law school website that exists and research. i wouldn't recommend it at all if you have a career. it's too much of a risk.
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2015, 10:25:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2015, 10:23:32 PM
This had better not be so you can put members on Languish in jail.
gaol. The word is gaol.
:shifty:
My Grandfather spent a lot of time Gaol. He played professional soccor back in the 1920's he was the gaolie.
Quote from: LaCroix on November 10, 2015, 10:35:13 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:00:04 PM
Yeah, if I did anything like this, and of course I am not because how would I pay my mortgage, it would be because I have a very specific idea of what I want - and that is to be a criminal defense attorney or prosecutor.
So while I get that there are too many lawyers in general out there, I suspect there is hardly a glut of people willing to go work for the PD office, for example.
this is a massive myth. it's almost as bad as "i want to practice international law" that you see posted on law school internet boards/forums. any government job is incredibly competitive. there are so many 3Ls at every law school (except maybe harvard, yale, stanford) who would kill for a PD gig.
(edit) i'd ignore the canucks. their legal market seems to be operated in a way where going to law school = get legal job. that's not the case in the U.S. if you don't believe me, check every law school website that exists and research. i wouldn't recommend it at all if you have a career. it's too much of a risk.
Interesting - I guess that makes sense, given the fact that there is such a lack of really good jobs out there, that it means that a lot of very qualified people who otherwise might go to those jobs are fighting for PD positions instead.
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:59:11 PM
Interesting - I guess that makes sense, given the fact that there is such a lack of really good jobs out there, that it means that a lot of very qualified people who otherwise might go to those jobs are fighting for PD positions instead.
I think the shortage is financial, in that most PD departments are under funded, rather than lack of candidates.
Quote from: frunk on November 10, 2015, 11:01:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:59:11 PM
Interesting - I guess that makes sense, given the fact that there is such a lack of really good jobs out there, that it means that a lot of very qualified people who otherwise might go to those jobs are fighting for PD positions instead.
I think the shortage is financial, in that most PD departments are under funded, rather than lack of candidates.
Yeah, but the funding has probably largely remained basically constant, while the available candidates has exploded.
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:59:11 PMInteresting - I guess that makes sense, given the fact that there is such a lack of really good jobs out there, that it means that a lot of very qualified people who otherwise might go to those jobs are fighting for PD positions instead.
pretty much. though, there are people who honestly do want to do PD work. and, i've heard PD offices can be a stepping stone for future legal careers.
i think the bigger reason is that there just isn't a whole lot of jobs in general. good jobs, mediocre jobs, etc., they're all lacking. i think for a younger person, law school
can be a decent decision if the person knows the risks and is willing to give it his all. that's where i've always differed from ide's angle. but, for someone with an established career... i'd stick with where you're at, unless you just want to do something new and have enough money to blow (there are a few people like this in my class). otherwise, it's a serious gamble. especially if you restrict yourself to one legal field - what if the X number of defense firms / PD or DA offices in your area don't hire you, etc.
I went into law with a plan to work on landmark civil rights cases.
At the university I was going to stay in the academia or go into diplomacy.
15 years later, I am going to the office today, on a public holiday, to work on an agreement transferring a portfolio of motor policies between two multinationals. :weep:
Of course, I am being paid 5-10 times more than I would have in one of the other career choices. :ph34r:
Quote from: Martinus on November 11, 2015, 01:36:59 AM
I went into law with a plan to work on landmark civil rights cases.
At the university I was going to stay in the academia or go into diplomacy.
15 years later, I am going to the office today, on a public holiday, to work on an agreement transferring a portfolio of motor policies between two multinationals. :weep:
Of course, I am being paid 5-10 times more than I would have in one of the other career choices. :ph34r:
:worthy:
He's paid in turnips.
Quote from: frunk on November 10, 2015, 11:01:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2015, 10:59:11 PM
Interesting - I guess that makes sense, given the fact that there is such a lack of really good jobs out there, that it means that a lot of very qualified people who otherwise might go to those jobs are fighting for PD positions instead.
I think the shortage is financial, in that most PD departments are under funded, rather than lack of candidates.
That's my sense as well. It would be less competitive if there were sufficient numbers of PDs to handle the case load. But when state budgets need to be cut, the PD offices are not exactly in the best position politically to resist.
Berkut you can indulge your interest on your free time. And in time can take the bar :p
But you are apparently pretty good at what you do for a living and that is not many people can tell about themselves, statistically speaking. Embrace it and stick with it :p
Maybe you shouldn't quite your day job till your kids are adults.
How is law school ass these days?
Why don't you try a home study module to start with and see how you get on? Studying a subject formally is an entirely different proposition to dabbling in it. Plus, take it from me, trying to engage a middle-aged brain into a whole new career path is an entirely different prospect than when you're in your 20s :Embarrass:
I did my education in public administrative law. Which re-assured me that law is not my dream career.
That said, if you enjoy the topic, doing some home studying might be a good way to start to see if it's something you feel you would want to do professionally or if it's best kept a hobby.
I thought for a while about studying history and was considering to enroll in university. But talking to students and having dabbled in scientific research methods and writing papers while I was enrolled for German literature helped me to decide: this is something I want to spectate, not participate in.
Quote from: Martinus on November 11, 2015, 01:36:59 AM
I went into law with a plan to work on landmark civil rights cases.
At the university I was going to stay in the academia or go into diplomacy.
15 years later, I am going to the office today, on a public holiday, to work on an agreement transferring a portfolio of motor policies between two multinationals. :weep:
Of course, I am being paid 5-10 times more than I would have in one of the other career choices. :ph34r:
So when are you going to fulfil your cultural destiny and become a plumber in Chiswick?