Languish.org

Just found out about this case. What do you think Languish?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11958227/Troops-expected-to-defy-ban-on-Sgt-Alexander-Blackman-rally.html

QuoteTroops expected to defy ban on Sgt Alexander Blackman rally

Serving members of the military are expected to join more than 1,300 supporters at a rally in support of Sgt Alexander Blackman

By  Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent

3:37PM GMT 27 Oct 2015


Serving troops are expected to defy a ban from their commanders and attend a rally in support of Sgt Alexander Blackman, who was convicted of murdering a wounded Taliban fighter.


Several Royal Marines and others are expected to risk disciplinary punishment by attending what the Ministry of Defence says is a political demonstration.


More than 1,300 supporters are expected to rally on the October 28 anniversary of the founding of the Royal Marines in a show of support for Blackman on Parliament Square in central London.

At the same time, supporters in Parliament are expected to try to raise his case inside the Common's during Prime Minister's Questions.

Sources said the serving members of the military, who declined to be named and will be keeping a low profile wearing civilian clothes to join the rally, had decided to defy repeated reminders from commanders that they may not attend.

One serving Royal Marine, who cannot attend himself, said he expected several of his comrades to go.

He said: "I would attend, as several are doing. I assume there will be plenty there who have been told not to attend."

Blackman's supporters, led by his wife Claire, are campaigning to have his 2013 murder conviction overturned. They believe he should only have faced a lesser manslaughter charge for shooting the badly wounded Taliban fighter during a 2011 patrol in Helmand province.

Commanders fearing a public show of support from serving members of the Armed Forces have repeatedly reminded servicemen in recent days that they may not attend political demonstrations or rallies.

"Any gathering which seeks to protest against a decision taken by the legal system or the government falls into this category," the MoD has said.

Organisers say they have had more than 1,300 people, including former servicemen and civilians, vow to attend, but they expect the final attendance to be higher.

Richard Drax, MP for South Dorset and a former Army officer, said: "It does show just how raw this case is. Serving and ex-serving servicemen feel that this guy has been hung out to dry."

Blackman was given a life sentence in 2013, with a minimum term of eight years in prison. The killing was captured on helmet camera video, in which he was seen shooting the prone fighter in the chest, then quoting Shakespeare and telling the rest of his patrol to keep quiet.

Supporters believe command failings had left him and his men virtually abandoned and he snapped while suffering unbearable strain and combat stress.

A high-profile campaign has seen a petition calling for his case to be reviewed collect more than 100,000 signatures, while supporters have donated more than £750,000 towards his legal fees.

One supporter, David Cooper, wrote on a campaign page: "We believe that Al did not have a fair trial with crucial evidence along with other factors being withheld and not put into account.

"It is important to have a show of support on Parliament square so Al and his family know the British public support their cause 100 per cent."

Shirley Reeves, another supporter, said: "We should support our armed forces and fight for them when they have been wronged. British justice has wronged Al and it should be corrected."

Quote


April 2011

Deployed

Sgt Blackman deploys to Helmand province with 42 Commando as part of Op Herrick XIV. His unit is sent to Nad-e Ali, where it sees heavy fighting. Several marines are killed and others maimed.

15 September 2011

The killing


Taliban insurgents attack a small British patrol base. The attack is repelled with the aid of a British Apache helicopter gunship. Sgt Blackman and his marines are on patrol and sent to look for the fleeing attackers. They find one, lying gravely wounded, in the middle of a field. Sgt Blackman shoots him in the chest with his pistol. The killing is captured on helmet camera by one of the patrol.

September 2012

Discovery

The video of the incident is found on a Royal Marine's laptop during an investigation by civilian police into another alleged crime. A police investigation begins.

11 October 2012

Arrest

Seven unnamed Royal Marines are arrested on suspicion of murder

23 October 2013

Court Martial begins

Sgt Blackman and two others go on trail accused of murder. He is only identified as 'Marine A' and his comrades as Marines B and C. They give evidence from behind screens. All three plead not guilty.

8 November 2013

Verdict

Sgt Blackman is found guilty of murder. The two other marines are acquitted.

5 December 2013

Named

A court rules Sgt Blackman, still only known to the world as 'Marine A', should be stripped of his anonymity.

6 December 2013

Sentenced

Sgt Blackman is given a life sentence and told he must serve a minimum of 10 years in a civilian prison.

22 May 2014

Appeal

Sgt Blackman loses a Court of Appeal bid to overturn his life sentence. His minimum term is cut from 10 years to eight.

From the sound of it, he did nothing wrong. Enemy combatant, no mention of surrender attempt. The fact he was lying on the ground didn't make him not dangerous.

The fact he used his sidearm suggests it was more an execution than combat.

Statements from the Marine himself don't exactly sound good:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Helmand_Province_incident

QuoteThe incident took place in Helmand Province during Operation Herrick 14,[7] part of the British effort in the War in Afghanistan. Blackman, of 42 Commando, Royal Marines,[14] was part of a Marine patrol that came across an Afghan fighter in a field wounded by Apache Helicopter gunfire.[1][5][9] Blackman ordered the Afghan to be moved out of sight of the British Persistent Ground Surveillance System,[1] a camera on a balloon above British Forward Operating Base Shazad, Helmand, covering the area Blackman's patrol had been sent to.[10] Video evidence played at the Marines' subsequent trial shows them dragging the man across the field and then kicking him.[15] Blackman ordered other servicemen to stop administering first aid to the insurgent[1] and eventually shot the man in the chest with a 9 mm pistol,[9][15] saying: "Shuffle off this mortal coil, you cunt. It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."[5][11][15][16] He then added: "I just broke the Geneva Convention."[3][17]

That is a little extreme, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

FYI Tyr, conscription was suspended in France in 1997. No plans to bring it back.

Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2015, 02:03:17 AM
The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

The UK is a nation of shopkeepers and gentlemen  :bowler:

Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2015, 02:03:17 AM
The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

We need the upperclasses involved to keep the lower orders in check? :yeahright:

Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:50:53 AM

Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2015, 02:03:17 AM
The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

We need the upperclasses involved to keep the lower orders in check? :yeahright:

It's Tyr.  I'm not particularly bothered by this.  They killed a Francs-Tireur.  I'm so fucking tired of these assholes.

Quote from: Razgovory on October 28, 2015, 08:15:35 AM

Quote from: garbon on October 28, 2015, 07:50:53 AM

Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2015, 02:03:17 AM
The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

We need the upperclasses involved to keep the lower orders in check? :yeahright:

It's Tyr.  I'm not particularly bothered by this.  They killed a Francs-Tireur.  I'm so fucking tired of these assholes.

I'm not sure I'm excited about people who gleefully commit warcrimes. Eventually, at least some of them, will come home.

Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2015, 02:03:17 AM
The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.

In general the British Armed Forces are considered to hold a high standard in the international field because, rather than in spite of, the fact they are professional and not conscripted. There is accelerated graduate entry for officers, which offers a range of academic if not social classes.

On top of this, the Royal Marines are recognised as an elite commando force and should uphold high standards.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2015, 11:25:15 PM
From the sound of it, he did nothing wrong. Enemy combatant, no mention of surrender attempt. The fact he was lying on the ground didn't make him not dangerous.

Wait, what?  You can execute hors d'combat enemy soldiers now?  When did this become "nothing wrong?'  I obviously missed that.

Not sure why there is any controversy here. That seems to me like a clear crime - if the best the protestors can come up with is that it should be some lesser flavor of homicide, I suspect they don't have much of a case.

If this isn't murder, then there is no such thing in combat operations. It was not spur of the moment, he clearly felt no danger from the man, and he clearly knew that what he was doing was a crime.

Uh, guys, you recognize that Tyr is quoting Wellington in 1813, right?

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2015, 11:25:15 PM
From the sound of it, he did nothing wrong. Enemy combatant, no mention of surrender attempt. The fact he was lying on the ground didn't make him not dangerous.

Quote
•Article 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: ◦(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: ◾(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
◾(b) taking of hostages;
◾(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
◾(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.



◦(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Uh, guys, you recognize that Tyr is quoting Wellington in 1813, right?

No, I had no idea.

Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Uh, guys, you recognize that Tyr is quoting Wellington in 1813, right?

I just figured that his unusual coherence was because he hadn't hit the sauce yet today.

Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Uh, guys, you recognize that Tyr is quoting Wellington in 1813, right?

I did! :smarty:

Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Uh, guys, you recognize that Tyr is quoting Wellington in 1813, right?

No, I'm a historical ignoramus  :(

Besides, I leave at 17:30; by 18:13 I'm on the train.

Sergeant African-American Person is in deep doo-doo.

Quote from: Habbaku on October 28, 2015, 12:21:26 AM
Statements from the Marine himself don't exactly sound good:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Helmand_Province_incident

QuoteThe incident took place in Helmand Province during Operation Herrick 14,[7] part of the British effort in the War in Afghanistan. Blackman, of 42 Commando, Royal Marines,[14] was part of a Marine patrol that came across an Afghan fighter in a field wounded by Apache Helicopter gunfire.[1][5][9] Blackman ordered the Afghan to be moved out of sight of the British Persistent Ground Surveillance System,[1] a camera on a balloon above British Forward Operating Base Shazad, Helmand, covering the area Blackman's patrol had been sent to.[10] Video evidence played at the Marines' subsequent trial shows them dragging the man across the field and then kicking him.[15] Blackman ordered other servicemen to stop administering first aid to the insurgent[1] and eventually shot the man in the chest with a 9 mm pistol,[9][15] saying: "Shuffle off this mortal coil, you cunt. It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."[5][11][15][16] He then added: "I just broke the Geneva Convention."[3][17]

Ok, that's a horse of a different color. If they're moving the Afghan around, clearly they have taken custody of him.

His choice of words did lend the whole sordid affair a touch of class though. I suggest suspended sentence.

Quote from: Scipio on October 28, 2015, 10:41:30 AM
Sergeant African-American Person is in deep doo-doo.

I see what you did there.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2015, 10:59:26 AM
Ok, that's a horse of a different color. If they're moving the Afghan around, clearly they have taken custody of him.

Custody makes no difference.  The horse is still the same color (or, since the guy is a Brit, colour).

Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2015, 11:26:16 AM
Custody makes no difference.  The horse is still the same color (or, since the guy is a Brit, colour).

You would have them approach enemy combatants and wait for them to draw first? That is a pretty shitty way to conduct a war.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
You would have them approach enemy combatants and wait for them to draw first? That is a pretty shitty way to conduct a war.

Why would you do that?  That is a pretty shitty way to conduct a war!

I think overall the only issue I have with this case is that the guy is likely to get out in less than a decade.

He can run for PM, and make the dead guy a punchline. Staying classy and shit.