Couldn't figure out which thread to post this in, the police violence one, that about migrants, but it really didn't fit so I decided to go Timmay on you, though it probably doesn't deserve it's own thread.
Quote
Irving 9th-grader arrested after taking homemade clock to school: 'So you tried to make a bomb?'
IRVING — Ahmed Mohamed — who makes his own radios and repairs his own go-kart — hoped to impress his teachers when he brought a homemade clock to MacArthur High on Monday.
Instead, the school phoned police about Ahmed's circuit-stuffed pencil case.
So the 14-year-old missed the student council meeting and took a trip in handcuffs to juvenile detention. His clock now sits in an evidence room. Police say they may yet charge him with making a hoax bomb — though they acknowledge he told everyone who would listen that it's a clock.
In the meantime, Ahmed's been suspended, his father is upset and the Council on American-Islamic Relations is once again eyeing claims of Islamophobia in Irving.
Box of circuit boards
A box full of circuit boards sits at the foot of Ahmed's small bed in central Irving. His door marks the border where the Mohamed family's cramped but lavishly decorated house begins to look like the back room at RadioShack.
.....
Full story here is worth a read as it has some interesting additional details:
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150915-irving-ninth-grader-arrested-after-taking-homemade-clock-to-school.ece (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150915-irving-ninth-grader-arrested-after-taking-homemade-clock-to-school.ece)
I was wondering if this was going to be posted here.
Texas being awesome once again. Public school is so obnoxious.
How times change. When I was a kid, I brought a home-made crossbow to school. No-one batted an eyelid. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on September 16, 2015, 09:34:26 AM
How times change. When I was a kid, I brought a home-made crossbow to school. No-one batted an eyelid. ;)
When I was a kid we got suspended for playing spades at school. Because it leads to gambling you see.
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
I was wondering if this was going to be posted here.
Texas being awesome once again. Public school is so obnoxious.
I think I'd reserve my strongest criticism for the principle and then the 2nd teacher who reported him. By the time the cops arrived I guess the terrorism theatre was already seeing the second act and they probably couldn't apply common sense to the matter, though not Dallas police's finest hour. Though it would be nice to hear about a cop apply some rationality to these situations by 'defusing' the hysteria.
Quote from: mongers on September 16, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
I was wondering if this was going to be posted here.
Texas being awesome once again. Public school is so obnoxious.
I think I'd reserve my strongest criticism for the principle and then the 2nd teacher who reported him. By the time the cops arrived I guess the terrorism theatre was already seeing the second act and they probably couldn't apply common sense to the matter, though not Dallas police's finest hour. Though it would be nice to hear about a cop apply some rationality to these situations by 'defusing' the hysteria.
The times they do are the times it does not end up international news.
Quote from: mongers on September 16, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
I was wondering if this was going to be posted here.
Texas being awesome once again. Public school is so obnoxious.
I think I'd reserve my strongest criticism for the principle and then the 2nd teacher who reported him. By the time the cops arrived I guess the terrorism theatre was already seeing the second act and they probably couldn't apply common sense to the matter, though not Dallas police's finest hour. Though it would be nice to hear about a cop apply some rationality to these situations by 'defusing' the hysteria.
Yes, that would be nice - still the expectation about cops thinking out of the box or being reasonable may be as unfounded as they are frequent. My impression is that people who end up being cops (especially the type of cops that react to people dialing 911, as opposed to detectives and officers) are generally not the best and the brightest - quite the opposite, there may even be a type of negative selection, with not just losers but also those with psychological issues (the "bully" types) being attracted to the job (what normal person having other options would want to do it?)
So expecting these people to exercise some sort of common sense and restraint may be a pipe dream.
I don't understand the chain of events.
Quote from: Martinus on September 16, 2015, 09:48:43 AM
Yes, that would be nice - still the expectation about cops thinking out of the box or being reasonable may be as unfounded as they are frequent. My impression is that people who end up being cops (especially the type of cops that react to people dialing 911, as opposed to detectives and officers) are generally not the best and the brightest - quite the opposite, there may even be a type of negative selection, with not just losers but also those with psychological issues (the "bully" types) being attracted to the job (what normal person having other options would want to do it?)
So expecting these people to exercise some sort of common sense and restraint may be a pipe dream.
Oh for fucksake. You put the nob in snob.
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2015, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 16, 2015, 09:48:43 AM
Yes, that would be nice - still the expectation about cops thinking out of the box or being reasonable may be as unfounded as they are frequent. My impression is that people who end up being cops (especially the type of cops that react to people dialing 911, as opposed to detectives and officers) are generally not the best and the brightest - quite the opposite, there may even be a type of negative selection, with not just losers but also those with psychological issues (the "bully" types) being attracted to the job (what normal person having other options would want to do it?)
So expecting these people to exercise some sort of common sense and restraint may be a pipe dream.
Oh for fucksake. You put the nob in snob.
Do you mind disputing anything I said instead of doing an ad-hom?
He put as much evidence out there as you did.
Quote from: mongers on September 16, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
I think I'd reserve my strongest criticism for the principle and then the 2nd teacher who reported him. By the time the cops arrived I guess the terrorism theatre was already seeing the second act and they probably couldn't apply common sense to the matter, though not Dallas police's finest hour. Though it would be nice to hear about a cop apply some rationality to these situations by 'defusing' the hysteria.
It's the Irving police. I would hope DPD is a large and metropolitan enough force to treat such a case sanely. Probably a last shred of misplaced optimism on my part, though. :(
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on September 16, 2015, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 16, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
I think I'd reserve my strongest criticism for the principle and then the 2nd teacher who reported him. By the time the cops arrived I guess the terrorism theatre was already seeing the second act and they probably couldn't apply common sense to the matter, though not Dallas police's finest hour. Though it would be nice to hear about a cop apply some rationality to these situations by 'defusing' the hysteria.
It's the Irving police. I would hope DPD is a large and metropolitan enough force to treat such a case sanely. Probably a last shred of misplaced optimism on my part, though. :(
I think I'd trust a small-town police force more on something like this.
He's been released :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34266389
Getting some nice attention off Obama, Zuckerberg etc etc
Quote from: dps on September 16, 2015, 03:46:02 PM
I think I'd trust a small-town police force more on something like this.
I would, too. Unfortunately, Irving is in that sweet spot between "small town" and "large metropolitan" that seems to be the worst place for things like this.
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2015, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 16, 2015, 09:34:26 AM
How times change. When I was a kid, I brought a home-made crossbow to school. No-one batted an eyelid. ;)
When I was a kid we got suspended for playing spades at school. Because it leads to gambling you see.
I wish you were around here. No one plays spades anymore. :(
Poor kid. If we had a total surveillance state, of course, he'd never have been arrested, since competent analysts working at a centralized location and alerted by the threat detection algorithms, rather than idiot school officials and local yokel police, would have determined that he was making a clock.
The letter they sent to the school community is pretty infuriating, too, inasmuch as--probably as an attempt to avoid admitting liability--it doesn't admit fault or apologize, but instead exhorts parents to talk with their kids about the school code of conduct regarding prohibited items and also for students to remain vigilant and report suspicious items and actions to the school authorities. What a joke.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 16, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
He's been released :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34266389
Getting some nice attention off Obama, Zuckerberg etc etc
You may that that this is working pretty well for him. :hmm:
Quote from: Ideologue on September 16, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
I wish you were around here. No one plays spades anymore. :(
Hearts is a better game.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2015, 05:29:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 16, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
I wish you were around here. No one plays spades anymore. :(
Hearts is a better game.
High Low Jack was our school game of choice, and far superior! :mad:
I stabbed a kid in the ear with a pen because I thought he stole and hid my backpack. We're friends now, but it turns out he was trying to help get the backpack back for me.
Yeah, I was a psychotic dick.
Fuck Texas.
To be clear, based on modern standards of evidence, I can't even prove I'm not a potential rapist.
Fuck life.
Quote from: Scipio on September 16, 2015, 09:23:59 PM
To be clear, based on modern standards of evidence, I can't even prove I'm not a potential rapist.
Fuck life.
:unsure: Are you drunk?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 16, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
He's been released :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34266389
Getting some nice attention off Obama, Zuckerberg etc etc
Yeah, he got invites to the White House, Facebook and Google, and from some other Silicon Valley people. :thumbsup:
If he met with Obama, Zuckerberg and the others in one place and THEN actually detonated the bomb, it would have been the best terrorist plot ever. :P
Remember the shoe bomber? They should detain all students who wear shoes. Might be bombs.
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2015, 12:58:28 AM
Remember the shoe bomber? They should detain all students who wear shoes. Might be bombs.
There was an underpants bomber too :P
Incidentally, predictably, there is a second level to this story - apparently the mayor of Irving is an right wing moron who is on a crusade against the sharia law being imposed in Texas:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/ahmed-mohamed-beth-van-duyne-sharia
It's very predictable, isn't it? Behind every racist cop abusing his powers there seems to be a moronic conservative politician enabling him.
Sad to see the local cops doubling down on the stupidity by saying students shouldn't bring odd looking things to school.
Quote from: mongers on September 17, 2015, 07:35:15 AM
Sad to see the local cops doubling down on the stupidity by saying students shouldn't bring odd looking things to school.
In the ago of zero tolerance, it ain't bad advice.
I originally read this story on the daily mash. Didn't know they also posted stupid real stories so thought it was just a joke.
Well, Scip's friends in Mississippi seem to think this is actually some sort of conspiracy by the liberal, Muslims and the President to further Islamize the US or something.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2015, 12:44:18 PM
I originally read this story on the daily mash. Didn't know they also posted stupid real stories so thought it was just a joke.
I keep on telling myself that we live on a planet of more than 7 billion people and that the shitty stories rise to the top. In other words one million American kids showed off their science/electronics projects last year and nothing untoward happened, but by the rules of chance there was almost bound to be a place where the local authorities were sufficiently clueless for something as silly as this to occur. Its a bit like a lottery, because of the vast number of participants the highly unlikely happens almost every week.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 16, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
I wish you were around here. No one plays spades anymore. :(
It's still the top game in prison, AFAIK. :)
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 17, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 17, 2015, 07:35:15 AM
Sad to see the local cops doubling down on the stupidity by saying students shouldn't bring odd looking things to school.
In the ago of zero tolerance, it ain't bad advice.
I remember when they imposed "zero tolerance" in our schools. Not about bombs of course, but about drugs. A kid who brought aspirin to school was to be treated the same if he brought in heroin. I soon learned that "zero tolerance", meant that teachers didn't want to make decisions.
Ok, I gotta say, having seen the clock looking like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2362805%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_635%2Ftexas-muslim-student-clock.jpg&hash=fca1ca69047c9c0a1b6bd2ce936c9b54b83255f9)
The teacher may have overreacted and the kid was obviously innocent, but that does look like a bomb (or at least it does not look like a clock).
Lawyer vs tech.
Looks more like a typewriter than anything. :hmm:
I have to admit that it does look like a shit clock, so all the accolades he's getting seem a bit over the top. I can get a far better clock for $10 at a corner store.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2015, 11:44:18 PM
I soon learned that "zero tolerance", meant that teachers didn't want to make decisions.
Bingo.
A friend of mine does have a bit of a conspiracy theory going that it was pre-meditated by him/his father, knowing the stupid conservative locals would over react at a muslim with something that looks like a bomb, and knowing/hoping the inevitable media attention would lead to good things for the kid.
I'm doubtful to say the least. But it is quite a nice little theory.
Quote from: Tyr on September 20, 2015, 12:35:46 PM
A friend of mine does have a bit of a conspiracy theory going that it was pre-meditated by him/his father, knowing the stupid conservative locals would over react at a muslim with something that looks like a bomb, and knowing/hoping the inevitable media attention would lead to good things for the kid.
I'm doubtful to say the least. But it is quite a nice little theory.
Yeah, that seems to be going around in the US amongst the loonies.
Quote from: Martinus on September 20, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
Ok, I gotta say, having seen the clock looking like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2362805%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_635%2Ftexas-muslim-student-clock.jpg&hash=fca1ca69047c9c0a1b6bd2ce936c9b54b83255f9)
The teacher may have overreacted and the kid was obviously innocent, but that does look like a bomb (or at least it does not look like a clock).
Looks like someone opened up a modem or something.
I am the modem man.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2015, 12:46:24 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 20, 2015, 12:35:46 PM
A friend of mine does have a bit of a conspiracy theory going that it was pre-meditated by him/his father, knowing the stupid conservative locals would over react at a muslim with something that looks like a bomb, and knowing/hoping the inevitable media attention would lead to good things for the kid.
I'm doubtful to say the least. But it is quite a nice little theory.
Yeah, that seems to be going around in the US amongst the loonies.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592)
I knew Corbyn and the kid had planned the whole thing!
Quote from: citizen k on September 20, 2015, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2015, 12:46:24 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 20, 2015, 12:35:46 PM
A friend of mine does have a bit of a conspiracy theory going that it was pre-meditated by him/his father, knowing the stupid conservative locals would over react at a muslim with something that looks like a bomb, and knowing/hoping the inevitable media attention would lead to good things for the kid.
I'm doubtful to say the least. But it is quite a nice little theory.
Yeah, that seems to be going around in the US amongst the loonies.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592)
The article misrepresents Dawkins' position based on his tweets.
Oh? How are you reading this?
Quote from: Martinus on September 20, 2015, 05:03:33 PM
Quote from: citizen k on September 20, 2015, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2015, 12:46:24 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 20, 2015, 12:35:46 PM
A friend of mine does have a bit of a conspiracy theory going that it was pre-meditated by him/his father, knowing the stupid conservative locals would over react at a muslim with something that looks like a bomb, and knowing/hoping the inevitable media attention would lead to good things for the kid.
I'm doubtful to say the least. But it is quite a nice little theory.
Yeah, that seems to be going around in the US amongst the loonies.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592)
The article misrepresents Dawkins' position based on his tweets.
Imagine that. :lol:
Hey, Mart you gunna fill me in why the Huff Post was unfair to this bigot?
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2015, 10:57:38 PM
Hey, Mart you gunna fill me in why the Huff Post was unfair to this bigot?
He linked a youtube video which says Ahmed the Clockmaker was a fraud with a comment "If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn't have done so". That's a far cry from the headline "Richard Dawkins accuses Ahmed Mohamed of Committing Fraud."
Many people now suspect this was an attempt to test our defenses on setting off a bomb. Now that this is all over the news no teacher in America will dare question any bomb like device.
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2015, 10:57:38 PM
Hey, Mart you gunna fill me in why the Huff Post was unfair to this bigot?
He linked a youtube video which says Ahmed the Clockmaker was a fraud with a comment "If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn't have done so". That's a far cry from the headline "Richard Dawkins accuses Ahmed Mohamed of Committing Fraud."
Not that far a cry, especially when he followed up with, "OK, fraudulent claiming of an "invention" is not heinous. And he certainly should not have been arrested by the police."
I find the whole concept that the kid was a "fraud" because he misused the term "invented" and used piece of an old clock to make his "pencil-box clock" (which, apparently, could run off a battery, unlike the clock he took apart) the most absurd contention in this whole affair. HuffPo, of course, missed the point, like Dawkins did. The Wright brothers didn't "invent" the airplane, either, unlike very popular claims (including Wikipedia). They, like the kid, simply engineered the first successful version of their project goal. Now, the Wright brothers did invent some of the elements of their successful airplane (most importantly, the method of flight control) while the kid just repackaged existing parts, but no one (least of all the kid) is claiming that he was engaged in anything like what the Wright brothers accomplished.
Bottom line: all of the angst and self-satisfaction being evidenced by those who have "proven" that some 14-year-old-kid didn't invent the LED clock face is unworthy of adults and is immaterial to the case at hand. The case at hand isn't about the kid's actions (the cops and school have conceded that there is no and never was any evidence that a crime ever occurred), but about the actions of cops who illegally arrested the kid and submitted him to child abuse, and the school authorities who abetted that crime.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 22, 2015, 06:23:05 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2015, 10:57:38 PM
Hey, Mart you gunna fill me in why the Huff Post was unfair to this bigot?
He linked a youtube video which says Ahmed the Clockmaker was a fraud with a comment "If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn't have done so". That's a far cry from the headline "Richard Dawkins accuses Ahmed Mohamed of Committing Fraud."
Not that far a cry, especially when he followed up with, "OK, fraudulent claiming of an "invention" is not heinous. And he certainly should not have been arrested by the police."
Still a far cry, imo, as it completely distorts the point Dawkins was making and misrepresents his overall attitude towards the kid.
Quote from: grumbler on September 22, 2015, 06:40:32 AM
I find the whole concept that the kid was a "fraud" because he misused the term "invented" and used piece of an old clock to make his "pencil-box clock" (which, apparently, could run off a battery, unlike the clock he took apart) the most absurd contention in this whole affair. HuffPo, of course, missed the point, like Dawkins did. The Wright brothers didn't "invent" the airplane, either, unlike very popular claims (including Wikipedia). They, like the kid, simply engineered the first successful version of their project goal. Now, the Wright brothers did invent some of the elements of their successful airplane (most importantly, the method of flight control) while the kid just repackaged existing parts, but no one (least of all the kid) is claiming that he was engaged in anything like what the Wright brothers accomplished.
Bottom line: all of the angst and self-satisfaction being evidenced by those who have "proven" that some 14-year-old-kid didn't invent the LED clock face is unworthy of adults and is immaterial to the case at hand. The case at hand isn't about the kid's actions (the cops and school have conceded that there is no and never was any evidence that a crime ever occurred), but about the actions of cops who illegally arrested the kid and submitted him to child abuse, and the school authorities who abetted that crime.
Which is exactly the point Dawkins made, no?
Quote from: Martinus on September 20, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
Ok, I gotta say, having seen the clock looking like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2362805%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_635%2Ftexas-muslim-student-clock.jpg&hash=fca1ca69047c9c0a1b6bd2ce936c9b54b83255f9)
The teacher may have overreacted and the kid was obviously innocent, but that does look like a bomb (or at least it does not look like a clock).
Actually, nobody I've heard has accused the teacher of overreacting. If one is looking at that and doesn't know what it is, freaking out is absolutely not unreasonable. Most of the complaints I've heard (and voiced myself) are leveled at the police and the school administration.
- They did NOT follow bomb scare protocol.
- They threatened to press charges because they weren't "satisfied" with Mohamed's explanation, even though it was clearly NOT a bomb, and he clearly did not CLAIM it was a bomb. How can you have a hoax bomb that's neither a bomb nor a hoax? :unsure:
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 07:56:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 22, 2015, 06:23:05 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2015, 10:57:38 PM
Hey, Mart you gunna fill me in why the Huff Post was unfair to this bigot?
He linked a youtube video which says Ahmed the Clockmaker was a fraud with a comment "If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn't have done so". That's a far cry from the headline "Richard Dawkins accuses Ahmed Mohamed of Committing Fraud."
Not that far a cry, especially when he followed up with, "OK, fraudulent claiming of an "invention" is not heinous. And he certainly should not have been arrested by the police."
Still a far cry, imo, as it completely distorts the point Dawkins was making and misrepresents his overall attitude towards the kid.
His attitude his one of hostility suggesting the kid is a fraud and then out right saying his actions are fraudulent. He also opines that this is some sort of hoax. Beyond that he doesn't seem to have a "point", beyond anger that the kid (a Muslim) got good press.
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 07:56:51 AM
Which is exactly the point Dawkins made, no?
No. dawkins talked as though the story here was the motive of the id, not the actions of the police (which he simply decried in passing). Dawkins completely missed the main point until the very end of his twitter conversation.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 22, 2015, 08:02:25 AM
Actually, nobody I've heard has accused the teacher of overreacting. If one is looking at that and doesn't know what it is, freaking out is absolutely not unreasonable. Most of the complaints I've heard (and voiced myself) are leveled at the police and the school administration.
- They did NOT follow bomb scare protocol.
- They threatened to press charges because they weren't "satisfied" with Mohamed's explanation, even though it was clearly NOT a bomb, and he clearly did not CLAIM it was a bomb. How can you have a hoax bomb that's neither a bomb nor a hoax? :unsure:
The English teacher had a somewhat valid point, because she couldn't know what a bomb really looked like. However, it is pretty clear that she didn't believe that this was an actual bomb because she took possession of it and kept it on her desk for a period of time - not the reaction of someone who thinks they are dealing with an explosive.
Then, of course, there is the long delay while the school bureaucracy convinces itself that this is a bomb scare, in spite of the fact that they have precisely zero evidence to believe there was any bomb scare or threat intended. The cops get involved here somehow, either sharing or creating the panic of the administrators, and the administrators and cops proceeded to break the law in their panic and anger.
It is unclear to me whether the cops were incompetent or vicious. The administrator, though, was pretty clearly guilty of malfeasance, what with his insistence that, contrary to law, the kid couldn't call his parents until he confessed to the fraudulent criminal charges, and then his abetting the false arrest and child abuse.
THAT's the story that hasn't been well-told, because bozos like Dawkins and HuffPo's writers are shitting up the news cycles with extraneous crap about whether the kid properly used the term "invent."
How dare they get hung up on definitions and totally miss the main point for the trivial. They are honing in on our speciality! :mad:
;)
Quote from: Malthus on September 22, 2015, 09:32:13 AM
How dare they get hung up on definitions and totally miss the main point for the trivial. They are honing in on our speciality! :mad:
;)
Exactly. HuffPo is trying to break our rice bowl!
The school wasn't evacuated because they didn't think it was a real bomb:
QuoteWeaver also said Thursday that school officials did not actually believe the clock was a bomb and that's why there was no evacuation of the school.
"It was determined very quickly that this was not an explosive device. However, it had the perception that could have been, which is why we had to take action. Students are prohibited from bringing things to school that could be perceived as a threat," Weaver said.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Teen-Arrested-for-Hoax-Bomb-Wont-Return-to-MacArthur-High-328129461.html
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 22, 2015, 10:48:14 AM
The school wasn't evacuated because they didn't think it was a real bomb:
QuoteWeaver also said Thursday that school officials did not actually believe the clock was a bomb and that's why there was no evacuation of the school.
"It was determined very quickly that this was not an explosive device. However, it had the perception that could have been, which is why we had to take action. Students are prohibited from bringing things to school that could be perceived as a threat," Weaver said.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Teen-Arrested-for-Hoax-Bomb-Wont-Return-to-MacArthur-High-328129461.html
Can't anything be "perceived as a threat"? I'm pretty sure I can be quite menacing with a spoon.
Well that would probably be things more along the lines of fake guns and apparently Radio Shack clocks from 1985 shoved into a pencil case that are "threatening" just by being there, but if you were acting like a crazy person with your spoon, I'm sure you would get sent to the office. You'd get smoked by the SWAT team if it was a spork.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 22, 2015, 10:48:14 AM
The school wasn't evacuated because they didn't think it was a real bomb:
QuoteWeaver also said Thursday that school officials did not actually believe the clock was a bomb and that's why there was no evacuation of the school.
"It was determined very quickly that this was not an explosive device. However, it had the perception that could have been, which is why we had to take action. Students are prohibited from bringing things to school that could be perceived as a threat," Weaver said.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Teen-Arrested-for-Hoax-Bomb-Wont-Return-to-MacArthur-High-328129461.html (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Teen-Arrested-for-Hoax-Bomb-Wont-Return-to-MacArthur-High-328129461.html)
:lol: I found that funny. I forgot how stupid highschool can be.
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 11:10:13 AM
Motives of the id are going to be this year's moths of begging.
Unlikely.
I never finished that story. :(
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 22, 2015, 09:46:16 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 22, 2015, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 07:56:51 AM
Which is exactly the point Dawkins made, no?
the motive of the id
Motives, John! Motives of the id!
Motives of the id are going to be this year's moths of begging.
I dunno. It's just a reference to Forbidden Planet. I thought it was cute.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 22, 2015, 11:43:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 22, 2015, 09:46:16 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 22, 2015, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2015, 07:56:51 AM
Which is exactly the point Dawkins made, no?
the motive of the id
Motives, John! Motives of the id!
Motives of the id are going to be this year's moths of begging.
I dunno. It's just a reference to Forbidden Planet. I thought it was cute.
I liked it for what it was (which was a Forbidden Planet joke). :)
British edition, with less inventiveness, though:
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/22/school-questioned-muslim-pupil-about-isis-after-discussion-on-eco-activism (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/22/school-questioned-muslim-pupil-about-isis-after-discussion-on-eco-activism)
QuoteSchool questioned Muslim pupil about Isis after discussion on eco-activism
Parents of 14-year-old at north London's Central Foundation school take legal action after he was left 'scared and nervous' by experience
A Muslim schoolboy was questioned about Islamic State after a classroom discussion about environmental activism, the Guardian has learned.
The parents of the 14-year-old are taking legal action after the boy said he was left "scared and nervous" by his experience with school officials in north London, and was left reluctant to join in class discussions for fear of being suspected of extremism.
The incident gives an insight into how schools and teachers are dealing with the pressures of the government's new anti-extremism initiatives amid mounting concern about British youngsters being lured by Isis propaganda.
According to court documents, the boy was in a French class at the Central Foundation school in May 2015 and took part in a discussion, conducted mostly in French, about the environment. The teacher and pupils were said to have discussed those who use violence to protect the planet.
The teenager mentioned that some people use the term "ecoterrorist" to describe those who take action such as spiking trees with nails to prevent chainsaws from chopping them down.
A few days later he was pulled out of class and taken to an "inclusion centre" elsewhere in the school. During this meeting the schoolboy said one adult sat behind him, and another in front of him, whom he had not seen before. That person was a child protection officer, the Guardian has learned, who had been called in to establish if concerns about terrorism were legitimate.
The boy who wishes not to be named, told the Guardian: "I didn't know what was going on. They said there had been safety concerns raised. If you are taken out of French class and asked about Isis, it is quite scary. My heart skipped a beat."
He said he was baffled how mentioning the phrases "L'ecoterrorisme", which he had learned from an earlier session of the school debating society, led to him being asked whether he supported Isis.
The boy and his parents say he was asked if he was "affiliated" with Isis. The school said he was asked if he had heard of the terrorist group, according to legal papers filed by his mother. The boy's mother said her son came home from school "visibly distressed".
The school said it was protecting the "welfare of the child in line with statutory and non-statutory guidance including the 'prevent duty'", the government initiative that aims to stop people turning to extremism and terrorist violence, according to the legal documents.
His parents are seeking a judicial review, arguing the child was discriminated against and was singled him out because of his Muslim heritage. They also described the prevent policy as unfair. Recently, new laws placed a "positive duty" on schools to implement it.
The school and Islington council, which controls it, declined to answer questions about the incident. However, a spokesperson for Central Foundation Boys' school said: "The safeguarding and the wellbeing of our young people is our primary concern.
"The school is confident that its safeguarding policies and the work of the professionals in the operation of these policies are proportionate, justified and place the wellbeing of the child to the fore. We do not comment on confidential matters relating to individual young people."
The teenager said school friends have been supportive, especially white ones, viewing it as an injustice suffered because he is Muslim.
In the end no action was taken and the teenager has been attending the school, which is highly rated. He has been student of the week three times in last two years and said teachers were usually nice and took time to get to know the students. He has since dropped French, and ultimately wants to be a software engineer.
Last week David Anderson, the government-appointed independent reviewer of terrorism, said "prevent" caused widespread anger among Muslim communities. "While good work is undoubtedly done under prevent, it is also the focus of considerably more resentment among Muslims than either the criminally-focused prohibitions," he said.
In a sworn statement as part of the legal action, the teenager said he was in a morning French class when the discussion occurred. He said: "I had recently learned about eco-warriors and the demonstrations that they organise in the context of an extracurricular debating club in which I take part called Debate Mate.
"When I said this, I thought that [the teacher] looked concerned. I therefore explained what eco-warriors are, and that sometimes people who call themselves eco-warriors take action such as spiking trees with nails to prevent chainsaws from chopping them down, as the metal nails blunt the blades of the saw. I then said that some people refer to this as 'eco terrorism'."
Around one week later the teenager was in another French class when he was taken out to an "inclusion centre". Describing what happened there, he said in his statement: "The lady behind the desk told me that she was a child protection officer. She then said to me that there had been "a safety concern raised". I did not understand why she was talking about a safety concern and what this had to do with me. She went on to say: 'Your French teacher ... I think, mentioned you used the word terrorism.'
"I remembered the lesson and explained that I had mentioned the phrase eco-terrorism in relation to eco-warriors and protecting the environment. I explained again what they were, and that they put nails in trees to blunt the blade of a chainsaw which is why people sometimes call them terrorists. The member of staff behind the desk looked at the member of staff behind me and said: 'Told you, he is a tree-hugger.'
"She made a hugging gesture with her arms and, looking at me, asked me if I 'went around hugging trees' like one of her relatives. She then asked me: 'Do you have any affiliation with Isis?'
"When she said the word Isis I immediately felt alarmed and extremely scared. I knew what Isis was as I have seen reports about them in the media. I knew that they behead and kill people. I could not think why she was asking me this or how it followed on from my French lesson ... and replied no.
"The member of staff sitting behind me, who had brought me to the inclusion centre, then asked me: 'Do the chainsaws explode?'. Before I could answer the member of staff sitting behind the desk asked: 'Do you understand why there could be a misunderstanding?'"
The boy's mother said: "He was presumed guilty because he was Muslim. As parents we are doing the right thing but still our son is accused. There was nothing in what he said that warranted him being taken out of class and treated as a criminal."
She said she thought prevent was causing damage and stifling discussions that could stop extremism. "If the three girls from Bethnal Green who went to Syria, if they had said in class: 'My dream is to marry a jihadi', their peer group would probably have slapped them down," she said
In a response to the legal action, Central Foundation school said it should be dismissed. According to legal documents related to the case it added: "It is unarguable that at the relevant time (May 2015) the school was required as part of its safeguarding responsibilities to be aware of the dangers of radicalisation.
"The approach of alerting the designated child protection officer by email regarding inappropriate references to terrorism and for [her] to have short 10-minute conversation with the claimant was a reasonable and proportionate response."
The school added: "This safeguarding step can not be criticised, as the school had due regard to its overarching duty to safeguard pupils and the need to prevent them being drawn into terrorism."
Brits. :lol:
Ecoterrorism is pretty horrible.
Quote
That person was a child protection officer, the Guardian has learned, who had been called in to establish if concerns about terrorism were legitimate.
I guess they would have called in a counterterrorism expert if they had wanted to establish if concerns about child abuse were legitimate.