http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/08/two-danes-face-up-to-six-years-in-jail-for-explaining-how-to-use-popcorn-time/
QuoteTwo Danes face up to six years in jail for explaining how to use Popcorn Time
Another case of disproportionate punishment just because copyright is involved.
Danish police have arrested two men alleged to be the operators of sites related to the open-source program Popcorn Time, which adds a user-friendly front-end to a BitTorrent client to make the whole process of finding, downloading, and viewing video torrents extremely simple. The two domains, Popcorntime.dk and Popcorn-time.dk, have now been shut down, but copies on the Wayback Machine show that both were merely information sites, and neither offered material that infringed on copyrights, nor any version of the Popcorn Time software itself. Both sites warned users about potential copyright infringement issues.
The men are accused of "distributing knowledge and guides on how to obtain illegal content online," as TorrentFreak reports, and have apparently pleaded guilty. Moreover, distributing information is considered such a serious violation of Danish copyright law that "they could face punishment under section 299b of the penal code—offenses which carry a maximum prison term of six years." That seems an extraordinarily harsh and disproportionate upper limit for merely explaining how to use a program, just because copyright is involved in some way.
A similar case has already been heard in the UK, where it was found that sites offering downloads of the Popcorn Time software contributed to the copyright infringement that results from its use. In April of this year, the English High Court ordered a number of sites to be blocked for this reason. However, in that case the sites enabled the program to be downloaded directly, whereas in Denmark, the accused simply offered basic information about how the software worked and could be used, together with links to other sites where the program could be obtained.
The fact that such a tangential involvement in copyright-infringing activities could lead to criminal charges and years in prison shows how hard the film industry is trying to stamp out the use of Popcorn Time, which is difficult to attack using conventional lawsuits because of how it is produced and made available freely. That desire was also evident in a recent case in Oregon where, unusually, end-users of the program, rather than infringing sites, were targeted. Most users of Popcorn Time are probably unaware that as soon as they begin viewing a torrent using the software, they are also making it available to others. That makes it possible to find out IP addresses, as in the Oregon case, and can land them in legal trouble—something only mentioned in passing by the now-defunct Danish sites.
I'm guessing that Denmark has similar laws as Germany, where you can be held responsible for the outgoing links from your site (in this case to the Popcorn Time download site)?
So they facilitated crime?
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
There are many reasons that someone might want to learn how to fire a gun. There aren't many varying reasons on why someone would want to learn about an interface for downloading torrents. They knew what was going to happen.
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
The gift that keeps on giving.
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:34:15 PM
There are many reasons that someone might want to learn how to fire a gun. There aren't many varying reasons on why someone would want to learn about an interface for downloading torrents. They knew what was going to happen.
Not all torrents are illegal, I presume.
How much do you get in Denmark for armed robbery?
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:34:15 PM
There are many reasons that someone might want to learn how to fire a gun. There aren't many varying reasons on why someone would want to learn about an interface for downloading torrents. They knew what was going to happen.
Not all torrents are illegal, I presume.
On PopcornTime they are.
Quote from: Tamas on August 23, 2015, 01:49:04 PM
How much do you get in Denmark for armed robbery?
Up to 6 years and 10 years for very violent robbery.
Quote from: Tamas on August 23, 2015, 01:49:04 PM
How much do you get in Denmark for armed robbery?
Really depends on the amount of loot at the place you are robbing. :homestar:
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
No, you just have to remember to derange the customers before they leave.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2015, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
The gift that keeps on giving.
:lol: I briefly considered responding to this, and then I noticed which poster said it. :blush:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 23, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2015, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
The gift that keeps on giving.
:lol: I briefly considered responding to this, and then I noticed which poster said it. :blush:
:yeahright:
Danish movie industry wants to outlaw VPN connections now. :huh: :lol:
Quote from: DGuller on August 23, 2015, 10:35:01 PM
:yeahright:
I used to think you guys were being too harsh on Mart's analogies... now, I know better.
Then again, explaining how to do something that COULD result in copyright violations should not carry the same sentence as armed robbery.
I am not saying it shouldn't be punished, but some measure of proportionality should be kept.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 24, 2015, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 23, 2015, 10:35:01 PM
:yeahright:
I used to think you guys were being too harsh on Mart's analogies... now, I know better.
Well, I was more reacting to your use of "I noticed which poster said it". That's like Milhouse picking on Ralph Wiggum.
What Lisa Simpson said. :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
Are you trying to outdo Marty when it comes to poor analogies?
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals?
:XD:
Quote from: DGuller on August 24, 2015, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 24, 2015, 10:32:57 AM
What Lisa Simpson said. :P
:mad:
You should be flattered. As far as my limited Simpsons knowledge goes, she is the
nerdiest brainiest.
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
How do you "dress up as a homosexual" exactly? :yeahright:
Pink triangles.
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
How do you "dress up as a homosexual" exactly? :yeahright:
Lots of rainbow flags. :)
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
How do you "dress up as a homosexual" exactly? :yeahright:
Wear a suit
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F2ec9e72d476d81eecefe8fd2814e734b%2F200006509%2FBarney-Stinson-suits.jpg&hash=0c21b5ad4d758ffe34e97f189a8bad7c4c57c4fb)
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
In the case mentionned here, they didn't do the second part.
They told people how to use a gun equipped with a gaydar would be a better analogy :P
Popcorn Time does in fact facilitate piracy*. I can't see any other use for this software in its default configuration. If you want to use it to stream legal torrents, you have some work to do: first, find a site that has legal torrents, second, obtain the API key for this site, something not all sites have.
What makes PT much more different than other existing tools and private pirate torrents&usenet groups is that it's fairly easy to use. Configure a tool like Kodi with illegal add-ons that will let you download and automatically sort content from illegal torrent and usenet sites requires a lot of work for the non initiated. With PT, you load it, you got your list of movies & tv shows, click the one you want to watch, voilà.
Imho, some networks should hire these guys to develop user interface for their products. And take good note of the one software-does-it-all approach. Paying a 10$/month subscription to Netflix, 10$/month to HBO, 10$/month to Amazon Prime (if I'm American), 10$/month for Hulu, that tends to be very expensive to be legit. Then, there's the problem with stupid copyrights restriction that won't let me legally watch Saturday Night Live on the internet because I'm Canadian. It's on fucking cable wich I pay for, but if I want to watch an episode or show it to my friends: "sorry, you're not American, go fuck yourself". (Yes I know, it can be easily circumvented, but it's still illegal, even if it's on TV).
Napster facilitated piracy but pushed music vendors from a traditional, comfortable model toward some uncharted territory. Eventually, iTunes came, and other legal streaming/downloading sites for music. You can now pay 1.50$ for that song you like instead of buying the CD at 20$. And I don't have to devote an entire shelf to these things, they all sit on my hard drive now.
TV&movie industry will have to move toward this model. 6-7$ to rent a movie in low quality is way too much. Going to the city twice to get a fucking a Blu Ray an return it is inconvenient. And the selection is highly limited, only the most recent blockbusters are available.
With a tool like PT, I could get access to movies&tv series from all accross the world if I wanted to. Stuff that isn't aired here, stuff from Australia, Africa, England.
On the one hand, I cannot condone piracy, even if I got screwed one time too many by Bell. On the other hand, I realize that forcing the issue with piracy is the only way to make the tv/movie industry evolve.
*Apparently, streaming is a grey area. If you keep the downloaded file on your computer, it is a clear violation of copyright in Canada. If you don't, it's more of a legal grey area, apparently.
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:07:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
How do you "dress up as a homosexual" exactly? :yeahright:
Lots of rainbow flags. :)
Shit, I've never dressed up as a homosexual. :(
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2015, 01:43:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:07:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
So they facilitated crime?
By that logic someone operating a shooting range facilitates murder.
Besides, "facilitating crime" is not a crime - aiding and abetting is. And for aiding and abetting to be punishable, one has to have clear intent and aiding and abetting must be linked to a specific crime or an attempt - not abstract.
I dunno Marty - what if a shooting range owner puts up their targets dressed up as homosexuals? And hands out addresses to where noted homosexuals live and work? At some point if someone does go out and shoots a gay person after using that range and that information, hasn't that crossed the line into abetting an offence?
How do you "dress up as a homosexual" exactly? :yeahright:
Lots of rainbow flags. :)
Shit, I've never dressed up as a homosexual. :(
You should have come to me sooner. I'm full of helpful advice to let you live your gay lifestyle to be as fabulous as it can be! :cool:
Barrister Eye for the Queer Guy? :yeahright:
I don't think Bravo will be picking that one up.
With those fucking pleats? Hell no!
Besides, rainbows are really rather tacky. Pick a color scheme already. :rolleyes:
I tried to dress Shelf up as a 1950's high school jock but he wasn't buying. :(
Quote from: Tamas on August 24, 2015, 09:44:26 AM
Then again, explaining how to do something that COULD result in copyright violations should not carry the same sentence as armed robbery.
Agreed, far too harsh for a nonviolent crime.