Is it a great job? I have read several times of politicians leaving big jobs like state governorships, latest being Utah Gov. Huntsman, and running off to some other country as a new Ambassador. What are the incentives?
Foreign tail.
Out of the country during bad political times...then they can swoop back in with their army and set things right.
It can be a nice sinecure when you are tired of the grind of elected office. You don't necessarily need much in the way of education or diplomatic experience unless you are posted to an important country. Decent pay and low expectations unless, again, you are posted somewhere that matters.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 24, 2009, 10:26:59 AM
It can be a nice sinecure when you are tired of the grind of elected office. You don't necessarily need much in the way of education or diplomatic experience unless you are posted to an important country. Decent pay and low expectations unless, again, you are posted somewhere that matters.
That is why that veteran German politician Klaus von Below-Saleski was so happy to be posted to Belgium in 1914. Nothing important to Germany ever happens in Belgium, talk about a cushy job.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2009, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 24, 2009, 10:26:59 AM
It can be a nice sinecure when you are tired of the grind of elected office. You don't necessarily need much in the way of education or diplomatic experience unless you are posted to an important country. Decent pay and low expectations unless, again, you are posted somewhere that matters.
That is why that veteran German politician Klaus von Below-Saleski was so happy to be posted to Belgium in 1914. Nothing important to Germany ever happens in Belgium, talk about a cushy job.
He probably made a fortune off the loot he commanded his staff to gather during hte invasion.
Quote from: PDH on June 24, 2009, 10:11:27 AM
Out of the country during bad political times...then they can swoop back in with their army and set things right.
:unsure:
Quote from: Phillip V on June 24, 2009, 10:04:12 AM
Is it a great job? I have read several times of politicians leaving big jobs like state governorships, latest being Utah Gov. Huntsman, and running off to some other country as a new Ambassador. What are the incentives?
Depends on the country. Some ambassadorships are quite important (and thus are typically given to career diplomats), while some are quite "cushy" and given as a golden parachute to a departing politician.
So it's sort of like becoming a Member of European Parliament here?
Lots of opportunities to make potentially very profitable business connections.
Diplomatic Immunity. :ph34r:
Do Ambassadors usually know the language of the country they are sent to?
Quote from: Phillip V on June 26, 2009, 02:07:01 PM
Do Ambassadors usually know the language of the country they are sent to?
Not usually I would think, but it is an important factor to consider.
Quote from: Phillip V on June 26, 2009, 02:07:01 PM
Do Ambassadors usually know the language of the country they are sent to?
The last US ambassador to Germany didn't speak a word of German.
An example of required qualifications:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/aussenpolitik/490533/index.do?direct=490537&_vl_backlink=/home/index.do&selChannel=103
Rough translation:
Quotewien (red.). A top class businessman succeeds a top class jurist as US ambassador in Austria: President Barack Obama has nominated William Eacho as new head of the U.S. representation in Vienna; Eacho still needs to be approved by the Senate. He follows lawyer David Girard-diCarlo, who is close to the Republicans. He has served for only 5 months as ambassador in Vienna and had to resign after Obama's election victory.
According to first information Eacho has no connections to Austria, but he speaks Spanish. The position in Vienna is mostly a reward for collecting more than 500,000 USD in campaihn contributions during the Democrat presidential campaign.
William Eacho (55) is a graduate of elite university [sic] Harvard and also has a degree in business and law of Duek University (NC). He was a manager in the food industry, then moved into investment and real estate. At the moment he is the CEO of Carlton Capital Group in Washington, D.C., specializing in real estate and privvate investment in alternative energies and technologies.
The future ambassador is married and has three teenage sons.
From what I've gathered from my International Relations classes plus talking to career foreign diplomats, yeah it's a good 'job', but really the only big payoff is prestige (plus what DP said).
The ~$150k a year they make is often a fraction of what they'd make in the civilian world. Some ambassadors have to go into their own pocket to pay for some expenses (I think there is a limit to what the State Dept. will pay for parties, etc.). In extreme cases, their expenses exceed their salary.
I believe most ambassador stints are fairly brief (IIRC it's customary to submit your letter of resignation when a new administration takes office), but hey, you get to carry the title "Ambassador" for the rest of your life.
Re: the local language, I don't think you have to speak it-- you have people for that, plus we're Americans so the rest of the world should be speaking English anyway. As it happens, most ambassadors do tend to have some fluency in the local language.
Quote from: Syt on June 26, 2009, 02:23:24 PM
According to first information Eacho has no connections to Austria, but he speaks Spanish.
That will be a useful skill if he ever has to meet with the ghost of Carlos V.
Last US ambassador to Thailand was fluent. The current dude lived in Korea for a decade and is fluent in that. Language is probably a factor but by no means the main one.
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
Re: the local language, I don't think you have to speak it-- you have people for that, plus we're Americans so the rest of the world should be speaking English anyway. As it happens, most ambassadors do tend to have some fluency in the local language.
Don't agree with this at all. Yes, the foreigners will take the trouble to speak English to the US diplomat when they want something from him. But the US' interests will not be best served if the jaw-jaw turns to Arabic and the American diplomats can't keep up.
Even an apparently simple job, such as US ambassador to the UK, would require a certain degree of linguistic skill in order to avoid potentially costly gaffes.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 26, 2009, 05:09:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
Re: the local language, I don't think you have to speak it-- you have people for that, plus we're Americans so the rest of the world should be speaking English anyway. As it happens, most ambassadors do tend to have some fluency in the local language.
Don't agree with this at all. Yes, the foreigners will take the trouble to speak English to the US diplomat when they want something from him. But the US' interests will not be best served if the jaw-jaw turns to Arabic and the American diplomats can't keep up.
Even an apparently simple job, such as US ambassador to the UK, would require a certain degree of linguistic skill in order to avoid potentially costly gaffes.
WOT'S ALL THIS THEN? ME TELLY IS ON THE FRITZ AND ME PRAM IS ALL WOBBLY!
All said just like Graham Chapman wearing a dress.
Quote from: Phillip V on June 24, 2009, 10:04:12 AM
Is it a great job? I have read several times of politicians leaving big jobs like state governorships, latest being Utah Gov. Huntsman, and running off to some other country as a new Ambassador. What are the incentives?
http://race42008.com/2009/05/16/the-reality-behind-jon-huntsmans-departure/
QuoteThe Reality Behind Jon Huntsman's Departure
President Obama's appointment of Utah Governor Jon Huntsman Jr. is being treated by the Beltway media as part of the Great Purge, the self-immolation of the GOP that is driving moderates to greener pastures in the Democratic Party. In reality, this is all a con, masterfully executed by Obama's Chicago-style politics. Clearly, David Plouffe's planted comments about being scared of Jon Huntsman were crafted with the full knowledge that Huntsman was going to be chosen as Ambassador to China. From observing this Obama team over the last few years, you understand that such a statement would not have been put out there unless there was a direct and distinct purpose, in this case to push the image of the GOP moving further right. By claiming to fear Huntsman as a GOP savior, and then installing him as Ambassador, it helps shape this false image. With the media all too willing to aid the Obama cause, the stories begin to be churned out about a moderate driven away by the evil minions of the far right.
In reality, Gov. Huntsman had very little chance of winning the GOP nomination, not because of the far right, but because other republicans of his ilk out-shining him. For example, Huntsman's campaigns for Governor had been fully backed by Utah's business community and the LDS church, but in a GOP primary those interests have committed to someone else, Gov. Mitt Romney. Romney raised more money from Utah then any other state, and a recent poll had Romney well ahead of Huntsman in his own backyard. I imagine on Huntsman's trips to Michigan, he received many 'Thanks but no thanks' from groups who would naturally fit with him, but had committed to Romney instead. With Huntsman's natural bases of support in places like Utah, New Hampshire , and Michigan firmly siding with Romney, it left him with very little room to run.
Now, some would argue that Huntsman could still run to Romeny's left, like McCain, and win that way. Perhaps, except for one problem: Gov. Charlie Crist. The Florida Governor's decision to run for the Senate has many insiders believe that Crist sees the Senate as a launching pad for a presidential bid. Crist would easily be the biggest star of the 2010 midterms, making him the most ascendant moderate in the party; a popular GOP senator from the biggest of swing states. Again, Huntsman is outflanked. Who needs a moderate Utah Governor when there is the superior option of famous moderate Florida Senator?
With the prospects of likely being out-organized by Romney and Crist, and with no chance to capture the populism of a Sarah Palin(working mom), Tim Pawlenty(son of a truck driver), and Mike Huckabee(Baptist minister) due to his billionaire upbringing, Huntsman clearly saw his chances fall from slim to none. That's when Obama struck. The President sent out Plouffe to make his silly 'I'm scared of Huntsman' comments, and then offers him a job he would be unlikely to refuse. In one fell swoop, Obama builds up a rival only to remove him from the equation, with us republicans having no say in the process. Slick politics, to be sure, but far from the moderate purge the media will claim it to be.
Jon Huntsman is Ambassador to China today not because of the alleged wingnuttery Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin, but because of the strategic positioning of Mitt Romney and Charlie Crist.
I suppose this is a reasonable explanation, the republicans probably understand their own people best.
Besides Huntsman, I was also thinking about two consecutive Massachusetts Governors who resigned to pursue Ambassadorships to Mexico and Canada respectively, though one of them did not even get confirmed, so it was a waste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Weld
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cellucci
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 26, 2009, 05:09:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
Re: the local language, I don't think you have to speak it-- you have people for that, plus we're Americans so the rest of the world should be speaking English anyway. As it happens, most ambassadors do tend to have some fluency in the local language.
Don't agree with this at all. Yes, the foreigners will take the trouble to speak English to the US diplomat when they want something from him. But the US' interests will not be best served if the jaw-jaw turns to Arabic and the American diplomats can't keep up.
Even an apparently simple job, such as US ambassador to the UK, would require a certain degree of linguistic skill in order to avoid potentially costly gaffes.
The "we're Americans" part was a joke-- I was poking fun at Americans' attitudes toward learning foreign languages. And you seem to be jumbling up career diplomats & ambassadors. Obviously, the foreign service officers doing the grunt-work should have some proficiency in the local language. And Ambassadors in high profile posts should as well. But it's not the end of the world if our ambassador to Latvia doesn't speak perfect Latvian.
How do other countries pick their ambassadors?
We have exclusively career diplomats with decades of service as diplomats, never political appointees like in America.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 24, 2009, 10:44:26 AM
He probably made a fortune off the loot he commanded his staff to gather during hte invasion.
Doubt it. He was not happy about the whole thing. From what I read he cried alot.
Quote from: derspiess on June 26, 2009, 10:59:33 PM
The "we're Americans" part was a joke-- I was poking fun at Americans' attitudes toward learning foreign languages. And you seem to be jumbling up career diplomats & ambassadors. Obviously, the foreign service officers doing the grunt-work should have some proficiency in the local language. And Ambassadors in high profile posts should as well. But it's not the end of the world if our ambassador to Latvia doesn't speak perfect Latvian.
Possibly. Was thinking of making a crack or two about the German-speaking ambassador thing that most of us German-speaking Americans probably wouldn't look good in diplomatic positions. Also, the old adage about "floating to the top" springs to mind whenever I think of ambassadors. They do need to be rather scheißevoll. ;)
Quote from: Zanza on June 27, 2009, 01:43:40 AM
How do other countries pick their ambassadors?
We have exclusively career diplomats with decades of service as diplomats, never political appointees like in America.
Same here. Ambassadors are diplomats, period. Even Foreign Affairs ministers are more often than not career diplomats.
In Hong Kong, the heads of our "economic and trade offices" around the world are all civil servants. But they are not career diplomats. We simply don't have any diplomat in our civil service, because we are not a country. Even though we need to staff these offices.
We just pluck people to go there. From education, transport, food safety, environmental protection, housing, social welfare, health, treasury...you name it. The head of the, say, Washington office probably had no diplomatic service experience, and came from education.
Quote from: Zanza on June 27, 2009, 01:43:40 AM
How do other countries pick their ambassadors?
We have exclusively career diplomats with decades of service as diplomats, never political appointees like in America.
It's the same over here. You are supposed to apply to the
Corpo Diplomático, wish is a branch of our Foreign Business Ministry (direct translation). It seems like a nice career and one I will be trying to persue.
Unfortunately each year there are more than 1100 applicants to just 30 entrances, so it's quite difficult to enter.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt link=topic=1319.msg61491#msg6149Don't agree with this at all. Yes, the foreigners will take the trouble to speak English to the US diplomat when they want something from him. But the US' interests will not be best served if the jaw-jaw turns to Arabic and the American diplomats can't keep up.
I'm reading 'Guests of the Ayatollah' at the minute. At the time of the Tehran Embassy siege (when non-essential personal had been removed) only 5 members of the staff spoke Farsi and none of the attached CIA officers did.
Quote from: Phillip V on June 26, 2009, 02:07:01 PM
Do Ambassadors usually know the language of the country they are sent to?
It is a plus. But not a requirement.
Quote from: Zanza on June 26, 2009, 02:12:36 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on June 26, 2009, 02:07:01 PM
Do Ambassadors usually know the language of the country they are sent to?
The last US ambassador to Germany didn't speak a word of German.
Ouch, that's qutie embarassing. Fair enough if its the ambassador to Slovakia or something but German and Germany is quite a different level there....
Does it matter? Language of diplomacy use to be french, probably English nowadays.
Speak English & your set.
Quote from: clandestino on June 27, 2009, 12:25:23 PM
It's the same over here. You are supposed to apply to the Corpo Diplomático, wish is a branch of our Foreign Business Ministry (direct translation). It seems like a nice career and one I will be trying to persue.
Unfortunately each year there are more than 1100 applicants to just 30 entrances, so it's quite difficult to enter.
That's one way to do it. In America we based our bureaucracy on the wise teachings of WS Gilbert:
Now landsmen all, whomever you may be
If you want to rise to the top of the tree
If you're soul isn't fettered to an office stool
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule:
"Stick close to your desks, and never go to sea
And you all may be rules of the Queen's Navy."