QuoteHearts and minds
Japan reviews history textbooks for its schoolchildren, and riles its neighbours
Apr 10th 2015 | SEOUL AND TOKYO | Asia
Timekeeper
LAST year, Japan's education minister, Hakubun Shimomura, told The Economist that he wanted the nation's children to be taught what he saw as "correct" views of history and territory. He has in the past questioned Japan's commitment to the Murayama statement of 1995, which expresses remorse to Asia for the country's wartime evils. And he argues there is no legitimate dispute over the Senkaku islands (which China calls the Diaoyu islands) in the East China Sea, as they belong to Japan.
The minister is making good on his pledge to reinterpret the past. This week, after a regular screening of textbooks for secondary-school use, it emerged that every one of the geography, history and civics books approved by Mr Shimomura's ministry stresses the government's position on Japan's territorial disputes with its neighbours. Japanese schoolchildren will now learn that the Senkakus, as well as the Takeshima islands (occupied by South Korea, which calls them Dokdo), are Japan's "inherent" territory. The publishers of some of the approved textbooks have doubled the number of references to territorial spats; 13 of them state that South Korea is "illegally occupying" Dokdo, up from four in 2011.
Some history textbooks also dilute or expunge references to Japanese war crimes, for instance by swapping out the word "massacre" in reference to the atrocities committed in Nanjing in 1937, in favour of "incident". One of the publishers was persuaded to delete photographs and testimony of Asian women who were corralled into brothels run by the Japanese army. The revised textbook says the government found no evidence to prove that the so-called "comfort women" had been taken there by force.
The textbook changes reflect new teaching guidelines set by the education ministry last year: these allow for books to be disqualified if they deviate too far from the government's official position, or from the goals outlined in basic education-policy. That policy was revised for the first time in 2007 to make nurturing "love of country" an educational objective, under then-prime minister Shinzo Abe, during his brief first term.
Mr Abe, who entered office for a second term in 2012, speaks of overturning Japan's "post-war regime", to relieve the country of the guilt of its imperialist past and make it proud again. He has long been unhappy about what he and other conservatives call Japan's "self-deprecating" education system, a product of reforms carried out during America's occupation from 1945 to 1952. A key objective of his Liberal Democratic Party, since its foundation 60 years ago, has been to reverse these reforms, says Yoshifumi Tawara, head of a civic group that monitors textbooks; now, he says, the LDP has the political power to do so.
The prospect of an international tit-for-tat war over young minds looms. In South Korea, the ministries of gender equality and education responded by announcing that they would distribute supplementary textbooks on the comfort women for use in primary and secondary schools. All history teachers will also be given dedicated training on the history of the wartime brothels (though it remains the prerogative of schools whether to beef up their teaching on it). The ruling party has called for pupils to spend yet more hours studying Dokdo. In China, primary and secondary schools already study the Japanese invasions of the 1930s and 1940s extensively; this year a compulsory text on the Nanjing massacre was adopted for use in all its classrooms.
This latest round in the region's textbook tussle also threatens to wreck a tentative rapprochement between its three leading powers, whose foreign ministers met in March for the first time since 2012. It does not help that last month Japan's foreign ministry removed from its website a reference to South Korea which had described it as sharing Japan's "basic values of liberty, democracy and market economy".
Asked about his neighbours' angry response to the Japanese revisions, Mr Shimomura said that his government was merely trying to strike a "balance" between its views and those of others. Mr Abe will visit Washington later this month to address a joint session of Congress. Some think he could face questions on his definition of balance. But many Americans have not yet realised that Mr Abe is a "true believer" in these matters, says Daniel Sneider of Stanford University, who studies Asia's textbook battles. The prime minister makes compromises as a politician, says Mr Sneider, but he will not waver from his long-term goal of bringing the post-war era to a close.
Disgusting nation.
This isn't exactly news. Has been happening since WWII.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 01:27:11 AM
This isn't exactly news. Has been happening since WWII.
There's been major backsliding since the 90's.
We must not allow this! We should provide free copies of EU2 to all Japanese students.
Worthy adversary.
History is an ugly mistress. Should we ban makeup? Yes the Japanese did some questionable things during that era, but who here has never been involved in an incident?
To the Oriental it's all about face, and what an inscrutable face it is. Not for him Occidental self-emasculation. The Yamato race is guilty of being proud. Should we really pass sentence?
QuoteJapanese schoolchildren will now learn that the Senkakus, as well as the Takeshima islands (occupied by South Korea, which calls them Dokdo), are Japan's "inherent" territory. The publishers of some of the approved textbooks have doubled the number of references to territorial spats; 13 of them state that South Korea is "illegally occupying" Dokdo, up from four in 2011.
The Senkakus are without a doubt Japanese. They however behave in a pretty grown up and civil way about it. They've already reached an agreement with Taiwan about the islands. China of course isn't interested.
And South Korea's occupation of the Liancourts is illegal and quite thoroughly what the international community would brand today as a grade A dick move.
Korea make a far bigger nationalist stink about the Liancourts than Japan does. You see mention of them everywhere in Seoul; models in subway stations, restaurants named after them, adverts for tours to visit them in the name of nationalist awesomeness, etc...
In Japan it took until I went to the prefecture which Japan claims includes them that I finally saw them mentioned...and there only as part of a map quite neutrally marking them as an insignificant part of some town.
That's a big part of what gives such views the pitiful amount of ammunition they do have in Japan; there's this big idea in Japan that Korea and China are out there fighting on the world stage to advertise their views and trick people into accepting them as fact, whilst Japan just sits by and does nothing.
If Japan were to give up its right to the Liancourts then whilst the Japanese public would shrug their shoulders and go 'meh' the Koreans would be dancing on the streets and pushing for some other old wound to be opened up.
QuoteSome history textbooks also dilute or expunge references to Japanese war crimes, for instance by swapping out the word "massacre" in reference to the atrocities committed in Nanjing in 1937, in favour of "incident". One of the publishers was persuaded to delete photographs and testimony of Asian women who were corralled into brothels run by the Japanese army. The revised textbook says the government found no evidence to prove that the so-called "comfort women" had been taken there by force.
China hasn't helped itself on this one.
Nanjing was horrific, nobody but a select group of idiots, even in Japan, doubts that. But China does lie. It doesn't really need to considering how bad it actually was but it does feel the need to exaggerate and fabricate evidence. Rather than seeking to use their shared horrible history to try and build peaceful relations with Japan it uses it as an excuse to whip up the population into nationalist fervour.
This really makes the Japanese right rather paranoid about accepting anything they say.
QuoteThe prospect of an international tit-for-tat war over young minds looms. In South Korea, the ministries of gender equality and education responded by announcing that they would distribute supplementary textbooks on the comfort women for use in primary and secondary schools. All history teachers will also be given dedicated training on the history of the wartime brothels (though it remains the prerogative of schools whether to beef up their teaching on it). The ruling party has called for pupils to spend yet more hours studying Dokdo.
Yeah, fuck you Korea. Why don't you compensate the comfort women you used yourself before trying to shake down the Japanese government for more money.
And nobody gives a crap about your rocks. They should have been blasted to dust when the US navy had the chance.
Wait entire textbooks just about the comfort women? That might be a bit of an overkill.
Tyr as a Japanese Chauvin is hilarious.
The Japanese dance to avoid the shame of their own history is a hoot. True, the exaggerations of the Chinese and lorean politicians trying to capitalize on the fact that the Japanese are unrepentant about their country's horrific racism and resulting genocides are also hilarious, but they, at least, have some excuse. Two fucking bombs didn't bring Japan to its senses and make it pretend to be a nation of adults, so I doubt that anything short of two or three more will, but I salute Tyr's efforts to shove his head up his ass over Japan.
I admire many things about Japan and the Japanese, but their attitude towards"history" isn't one of them.
The Japanese are mostly adorable in their interpretations of history. War is a terrible, naughty thing that happened to us! It must never happen again! Peace is the only way!
Edit: a subcomponent of this endearing outlook is of course appalling ignorance. For all the hub-bub about the Nanjing massacre, neither my wife, her mother, or brother had ever heard of it- although her father had, and held such pedantic knowledge proudly above his family. It's stuff like that by which you get to be the paterfamilias.
Why is it always the biggest losers who are so fascinated by the Japanese culture?
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2015, 03:08:24 PM
Why is it always the biggest losers who are so fascinated by the Japanese culture?
We admire its purity.
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2015, 03:08:24 PM
Why is it always the biggest losers who are so fascinated by the Japanese culture?
Sumo?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.s-nbcnews.com%2Fj%2FMSNBC%2FComponents%2FPhoto%2F_new%2F100106-biggestloser-hmed-6a.jpg.grid-6x2.jpg&hash=8834a2b291914ae411d80085b810a60d7071345d)
Quote from: Tyr on April 15, 2015, 01:57:01 PM
China hasn't helped itself on this one.
Nanjing was horrific, nobody but a select group of idiots, even in Japan, doubts that. But China does lie.
What are you talking about?
Quote
Yeah, fuck you Korea. Why don't you compensate the comfort women you used yourself before trying to shake down the Japanese government for more money.
What are you talking about?
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2015, 03:08:24 PM
Why is it always the biggest losers who are so fascinated by the Japanese culture?
Anime? Myth of submissive women? Geek machismo?
Yeah I never got the Asian submissive women thing, the ones I went to school with certainly were not. But then they had been enlightened...er...corrupted by the culture of Amerikkka.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 15, 2015, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 15, 2015, 01:57:01 PM
China hasn't helped itself on this one.
Nanjing was horrific, nobody but a select group of idiots, even in Japan, doubts that. But China does lie.
What are you talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
Quote50,000–300,000 dead (primary sources)[1][2]
40,000–300,000 dead (scholarly consensus)[3]
300,000 dead (Chinese government, scholarly consensus in China)
I would laugh if they weren't making a joke of something that isn't a laughing matter.
QuoteQuote
Yeah, fuck you Korea. Why don't you compensate the comfort women you used yourself before trying to shake down the Japanese government for more money.
What are you talking about?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/11/us-southkorea-usa-military-idUSKBN0FG0VV20140711
http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/07/15/claims-south-korea-provided-sex-slaves-for-u-s-troops-go-to-court/
Tyr is not only stupid, he's a bad person.
Senkakus are definitely Japanese, but Dokdo is just as assuredly Korean.
Koreans do obsess over it out of proportion to what it is though, a rock. However, Japan certainly does not help itself by white washing its actions during the occuption and the war.
China is the real threat to Japan, and the Japanese are sabotaging their own national interests by continuing to provoke Korea in this way.
EDIT: Shit, clicked quote instead of modify without noticing. :glare:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2015, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2015, 05:15:46 PM
Senkakus are definitely Japanese, but Dokdo is just as assuredly Korean.
Koreans do obsess over it out of proportion to what it is though, a rock. However, Japan certainly does not help itself by white washing its actions during the occuption and the war.
Japan could have helped itself on this issue long ago by not getting itself onto the losing side of war. Heck, if they did that, they might still own Sakhalin.
The downside of that, though, is they'd still probably be a pseudo-fascist, emperor-worshipping state.
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2015, 09:40:00 PM
Japan could have helped itself on this issue long ago by not getting itself onto the losing side of war. Heck, if they did that, they might still own Sakhalin.
Is Sakhalin really that good?
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2015, 09:40:00 PM
Japan could have helped itself on this issue long ago by not getting itself onto the losing side of war. Heck, if they did that, they might still own Sakhalin.
Is Sakhalin really that good?
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
The resources and extra space would be nice for them. And probably used far more effectively than in the hands of Russia.
Completely agree on the latter point.
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
Not quite every way. Imperial Japan had fewer sex pillows.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 15, 2015, 09:48:46 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
Not quite every way. Imperial Japan had fewer sex pillows.
The Imperials preferred live ones...that is what the controversy in this thread is about.
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Germany seems to be able to deal with its past.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Germany seems to be able to deal with its past.
Also Belgium. I think it has something to do with getting curbstomped.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2015, 03:25:16 PM
Yeah I never got the Asian submissive women thing, the ones I went to school with certainly were not. But then they had been enlightened...er...corrupted by the culture of Amerikkka.
I know of at least one Asian woman who has absolutely no trace whatsoever of being submissive :sleep:
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2015, 09:40:00 PM
Japan could have helped itself on this issue long ago by not getting itself onto the losing side of war. Heck, if they did that, they might still own Sakhalin.
Is Sakhalin really that good?
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
The resources and extra space would be nice for them. And probably used far more effectively than in the hands of Russia.
Completely agree on the latter point.
I wonder though. The extra space would probably be pretty meaningless. It's not really that nice a place to live, and northern Hokkaido isn't exactly heavily populated. Resources always help, but it's not like Sakhalin has massive oil reserves or anything.
Besides, barring the war, the Soviets would probably have taken the island back after Japanese society collapsed into revolution and chaos.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Germany seems to be able to deal with its past.
Not really. Germany doesn't have a healthy relationship to their past either.
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
I agree.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 15, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Germany seems to be able to deal with its past.
Also Belgium. I think it has something to do with getting curbstomped.
Doesn't seem to have helped France deal with their past all that much. Besides, in WWII Japan arguably got curbstomped at least as badly as Germany.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 15, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
Also Belgium. I think it has something to do with getting curbstomped.
I thought the Belgian line was the Belgian Congo was Leopold's private hobby and they had nothing to do with it. That's not exactly coming to terms.
That's indeed the Belgian line. Since Congo was the private domain of Leo II. Off course we profited of it and many of his administrators and ministers of the free state were Belgian. :ph34r:
Belgian govt wasn't interested in colonies, Leo II was, which was also in Hochschildt's book.
That's why their was a Congo Free State and not a Belgian Congo before the scandal and the scandal was the reason he had to hand it over to Belgium. All of the Profit of the free state went to Leo II who used it to finance his domains. It's only after his death that they went to the Belgian state.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2015, 05:15:46 PM
Senkakus are definitely Japanese, but Dokdo is just as assuredly Korean.
Koreans do obsess over it out of proportion to what it is though, a rock. However, Japan certainly does not help itself by white washing its actions during the occuption and the war.
China is the real threat to Japan, and the Japanese are sabotaging their own national interests by continuing to provoke Korea in this way.
Not just as assuredly
With the liancourts the evidence is pretty good that both countries have included it as part of their territory for quite some time.
If Korea hadn't been a knob about it and it was up to me I would probably give the edge to Korea but it is not so clean cut as the senkakus.
That Korea has acted the way they did though.... And in the interests of moving things forward and peace and love .... I like the decision of that American judge in halving them.
As for japan provoking Korea.... Huh?
Korea practically makes a sport of poking japan every chance it gets. With japan the absolute worst you can say is they're not trying to heal relations.
The idea that japan white washes it's history is just wrong.
There's a lot to dislike japan for. Militant nationalism and white washing of history really doesn't factor on the list at all, despite it being what they get so much shit for abroad.
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2015, 09:40:00 PM
Japan could have helped itself on this issue long ago by not getting itself onto the losing side of war. Heck, if they did that, they might still own Sakhalin.
Is Sakhalin really that good?
Besides, a Japan that didn't lose WWII would be objectively worse than one that did. The occupation was a pretty good thing, and the destruction of Imperial Japan allowed them to build a modern Japan that was far better in pretty much every way than the old.
Hmm.., without the war, the economic boom and bust, and the need to totally rebuild their cities they might not have the population troubles they do today.without the war dead they could well have quite a larger population.
But yes, karafuto ken would look pretty on a map but not be worth much.
Japan without the war in general- hard to argue about without establishing base parameters. The war didn't just happen, it came about because of the messed up economic situation and the rise of the militarist regime; under which war was always going to happen.
In the 20s though japan with the taisho democracy was on a pretty progressive development path, on track towards democracy. Id like to think if that had continued then modern japan at the worst would be like Thailand with the emperor.
Once the age of nationalism is over state Shintoism just starts to look silly to an educated, free populace.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 15, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 15, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
I don't think any country can really be mature about its own history. There's always an emotional component.
Germany seems to be able to deal with its past.
Also Belgium. I think it has something to do with getting curbstomped.
I don't know about you but getting two nukes dropped on you should count as "curb stomped" in my book.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 15, 2015, 10:14:53 PM
I know of at least one Asian woman who has absolutely no trace whatsoever of being submissive :sleep:
You should fix that. ;)
Quote from: Tyr on April 16, 2015, 02:26:42 PM
Once the age of nationalism is over state Shintoism just starts to look silly to an educated, free populace.
I think this gives the Japanese far too much credit for initiative and critical self-evaluation. Japanese are so good about being unwilling to leave the comfort zone of what is Japanese, which in turn is received truth and not to be questioned. Japan was capable of changing so quickly because it was top down, which gels nicely with their mentality. No drone is going to start a revolution in thought.
Quote from: Tyr on April 16, 2015, 02:17:12 PM
...The idea that japan white washes it's history is just wrong...
Every Japanese person I know would laugh at this assertion. Admittedly, they are all college-educated and have spent time outside of Japan, but they'd think you delusional or intentionally dishonest. You simply cannot say things like this as an innocent mistake.
Quote from: Tyr on April 16, 2015, 02:26:42 PM
In the 20s though japan with the taisho democracy was on a pretty progressive development path, on track towards democracy. Id like to think if that had continued then modern japan at the worst would be like Thailand with the emperor.
The polity was completely inverted in Japan. Because of the hard work of the genro, and Yamagata in particular, the military was wagging the dog of the government, as active-duty officers had to agree to serve in the cabinet. The imperial right of command, as applied in Japan, created a whole host of problems that weren't going to be resolved without violence. In Germany, you had the concept of 'working towards the Führer', where officials would do what they figured Hitler would want, without any explicit orders. In the case of Hirohito, it was even worse since he almost never intervened in politics after the railway bombing incident.
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who read Ian Kershaw's book.
QuoteThe polity was completely inverted in Japan. Because of the hard work of the genro, and Yamagata in particular, the military was wagging the dog of the government, as active-duty officers had to agree to serve in the cabinet. The imperial right of command, as applied in Japan, created a whole host of problems that weren't going to be resolved without violence. In Germany, you had the concept of 'working towards the Führer', where officials would do what they figured Hitler would want, without any explicit orders. In the case of Hirohito, it was even worse since he almost never intervened in politics after the railway bombing incident.
But here we're talking about a situation where there was no Manchurian Incident. By then the militarists were already on their way to taking control and it was too late.
Keep the economic situation in the 20s more stable, have Japan keep good relations with the UK and US, and they wouldn't necessary go down this path.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 16, 2015, 03:51:34 PM
I think this gives the Japanese far too much credit for initiative and critical self-evaluation. Japanese are so good about being unwilling to leave the comfort zone of what is Japanese, which in turn is received truth and not to be questioned. Japan was capable of changing so quickly because it was top down, which gels nicely with their mentality. No drone is going to start a revolution in thought.
Tatemae I would agree. Japanese would keep waving flags and going "Yay emperor!" until today and beyond.
Honne though.... Just look at modern Japan and how little people care about their religion, even without the statist elements. It is still a big part of what it means to be Japanese, they still respect it (as religions go it is quite cool so can't say I blame them), but few of them really take it all that seriously.
I just don't see the emperor worship thing continuing to be believed as Japan develops, nor do I see the government making too much of an effort to encourage it once its use is at an end.
Quote from: Tyr on April 17, 2015, 01:39:11 PM
But here we're talking about a situation where there was no Manchurian Incident. By then the militarists were already on their way to taking control and it was too late.
Keep the economic situation in the 20s more stable, have Japan keep good relations with the UK and US, and they wouldn't necessary go down this path.
You misunderstand. Hirohito's ambiguity is what allowed militarists to do whatever they wanted and say they were fulfilling the Emperor's will. The only times where Hirohito was unambiguous was in berating Tanaka over the assassination of Tso-lin by Japanese officers, and during the coup attempt. The Japanese system was designed to protect the emperor from politics, which is the whole reason the genro was there in the first place. And even in the Taisho period, the tides of militarism were on the rise, the government wasn't really responsible to the Diet, and the economic situation was probably beyond the ability of anybody to really manage. There was always going to be a postwar hangover, labour was going to cause issues due to Marxist thought and rising standards of living, and the Japanese were going to have to struggle for resources and markets.
American relations were probably going to be impossible to maintain. Even before WWI, there was a lot of tension between them over American racism, and their differences in China policy didn't help. So long is Britain's security was better served by maintaining a relationship with the US rather than Japan, the relationship just couldn't be maintained. Remember, the men who were actually in control in Japan during the Taisho era were steeped in Victorian imperialism and power politics. They had earned their stripes struggling against Britain and the US and the unequal treaties they imposed on Japan. When the Washington Treaty was being negotiated, it was easy for men like Yamagata to see it as just another unequal treaty.