4 Stages of Islamic Conquest:by Civilus Defendus, with a hat tip to Kali Politus
(
Video (http://vimeo.com/52771987)by LSA, PDF version
here (https://civilusdefendus.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/liberty-vs-sharia-july-2010-ltr.pdf). Click, save, share.)
STAGE 1: INFILTRATION(https://civilusdefendus.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/4-stages-graphic.gif?w=150&h=80) (https://civilusdefendus.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/4-stages-graphic.gif)Muslims begin moving to non-Muslim countries in increasing numbers and the beginning of cultural conflicts are visible, though often subtle.
- First migration wave to non-Muslim "host" country.
- Appeal for humanitarian tolerance from the host society.
- Attempts to portray Islam as a peaceful & Muslims as victims of misunderstanding and racism (even though Islam is not a 'race').
- High Muslim birth rate in host country increase Muslim population.
- Mosques used to spread Islam and dislike of host country & culture.
- Calls to criminalize "Islamophobia" as a hate crime.
- Threatened legal action for perceived discrimination.
- Offers of "interfaith dialogue" to indoctrinate non-Muslims.
How many nations are suffering from Islamic infiltration? One? A handful? Nearly every nation? The Islamic 'leadership" of the Muslim Brotherhood and others wish to dissolve each nation's sovereignty and replace it with the global imposition of Islamic sharia law. Sharia law, based on the koran, sira and hadith, condemns liberty and forbids equality and is inconsistent with the laws of all Western nations. As the author and historian Serge Trifkovic states:
"The refusal of the Western elite class to protect their nations from jihadist infiltration is the biggest betrayal in history."STAGE 2: CONSOLIDATION OF POWERMuslim immigrants and host country converts continue demands for accommodation in employment, education, social services, financing and courts.
- Proselytizing increases; Establishment and Recruitment of Jihadi cells.
- Efforts to convert alienated segments of the population to Islam.
- Revisionist efforts to Islamize history.
- Efforts to destroy historic evidence that reveal true Islamism.
- Increased anti-western propaganda and psychological warfare.
- Efforts to recruit allies who share similar goals (communists, anarchists).
- Attempts to indoctrinate children to Islamist viewpoint.
- Increased efforts to intimidate, silence and eliminate non-Muslims.
- Efforts to introduce blasphemy and hate laws in order to silence critics.
- Continued focus on enlarging Muslim population by increasing Muslim births and immigration.
- Use of charities to recruit supporters and fund jihad.
- Covert efforts to bring about the destruction of host society from within.
- Development of Muslim political base in non-Muslim host society.
- Islamic Financial networks fund political growth, acquisition of land.
- Highly visible assassination of critics aimed to intimidate opposition.
- Tolerance of non-Muslims diminishes.
- Greater demands to adopt strict Islamic conduct.
- Clandestine amassing of weapons and explosives in hidden locations.
- Overt disregard/rejection of non-Muslim society's legal system, culture.
- Efforts to undermine and destroy power base of non-Muslim religions including and especially Jews and Christians.
Is there a pattern here? Theo van Gogh is murdered in the Netherlands for 'insulting' Islam; the Organization of the Islamic Conference demands 'anti-blasphemy' laws through the United Nations; France is set afire regularly by 'youths' (read Muslims); the rise of (dis-) honor killings...holocaust denial...anti-Semitism...deception re the tenets of Islam; hatred toward Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. The pattern for all to see is the rise of Islamic intolerance and the covert/cultural jihad to remake host societies into sharia-compliant worlds – to remove host sovereignty and replace it with Islamic sharia law. Sharia law that condemns earthly liberty and individual freedom, that forbids equality among faiths and between the sexes, that rejects the concept of nations outside the global house of Islam, that of dar al-Islam.
STAGE 3: OPEN WAR w/ LEADERSHIP & CULTUREOpen violence to impose Sharia law and associated cultural restrictions; rejection of host government, subjugation of other religions and customs.
- Intentional efforts to undermine the host government & culture.
- Acts of barbarity to intimidate citizens and foster fear and submission.
- Open and covert efforts to cause economic collapse of the society.
- All opposition is challenged and either eradicated or silenced.
- Mass execution of non-Muslims.
- Widespread ethnic cleansing by Islamic militias.
- Rejection and defiance of host society secular laws or culture.
- Murder of "moderate" Muslim intellectuals who don't support Islamization.
- Destruction of churches, synagogues and other non-Muslim institutions.
- Women are restricted further in accordance with Sharia law.
- Large-scale destruction of population, assassinations, bombings.
- Toppling of government and usurpation of political power.
- Imposition of Sharia law
The website www.thereligionofpeace.com (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) keeps track of the number of violent jihad attacks as best it can. The site lists more than 14,000 attacks since September 2001. It is worth a visit. What is occurring, however, that is likely inestimable are events where muslims are bullied by other muslims for not being "muslim enough," where non-Muslims are intimidated into doing or not doing what they desire, where remnant populations are in a death spiral simply for being non-muslim in a predominantly muslim area. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists Animists and Atheists meet with death, property destruction or confiscation, forced conversion, rape, excessive taxation (the jizya), enslavement, riotous mobs and various other forms of islam (in-) justice at the hands of muslims in Sudan, Philippines, Kenya, Malaysia, India, etc. And let us not forget 'death to Apostates' the world over.
STAGE 4: Totalitarian ISLAMIC "THEOCRACY"Islam becomes the only religious-political-judicial-cultural ideology.
- Sharia becomes the "law of the land.
- All non-Islamic human rights cancelled.
- Enslavement and genocide of non-Muslim population.
- Freedom of speech and the press eradicated.
- All religions other than Islam are forbidden and destroyed.
- Destruction of all evidence of non-Muslim culture, populations and symbols in country (Buddhas, houses of worship, art, etc).
The House of Islam ("peace"), dar al-Islam, includes those nations that have submitted to Islamic rule, to the soul crushing, liberty-condemning, discriminatory law of Sharia. The rest of the world in in the House of War, dar al-harb, because it does not submit to Sharia, and exists in a state of rebellion or war with the will of 'Allah.' No non-Muslim state or its citizens are "innocent," and remain viable targets of war for not believing in 'Allah.' The Christian, Jewish, Coptic, Hindu and Zoroastrian peoples of world have suffered under subjugation for centuries. The Dhimmi-esque are forbidden to construct houses of worship or repair existing ones, economically crippled by the heavy jizya (tax), socially humiliated, legally discriminated against, criminally targeted and generally kept in a permanent state of weakness, fear and vulnerability by Islamic governments.
It should be noted that forced conversions (Egypt) and slavery (Sudan) are still reported. Homosexuals have been hung in the public square in Iran. Young girls are married to old men. Apostates are threatened with death. "Honor" killings are routine. Women are legally second-class citizens, though Muslim males insist they are "treated better" than in the West. These more obvious manifestations may distract from some less obvious ones such as the lack of intellectual inquiry in science, narrow scope of writing, all but non-existent art and music, sexual use and abuse of youth and women, and the disregard for personal fulfillment, joy and wonder. Look into the eyes of a recently married 12 year old girl to see the consequence of the moral deprivation spawned by Islam.
The 4 Stages of Islamic Conquest is also available in pdf format for easy sharing as part of "
Liberty vs Sharia (https://civilusdefendus.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/liberty-vs-sharia-july-2010-ltr.pdf)"
https://civilusdefendus.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/4-stages-of-islamic-conquest/ (https://civilusdefendus.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/4-stages-of-islamic-conquest/)
:o
:lol:
:berkut:
You forgot the fifth stage, "Acceptance".
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 12, 2015, 12:38:22 PM
:berkut:
WTF do I have to do with that crazy ass bullshit?
:hmm:
Lunacy
I gotta say, "V For Vendetta" may be a less-than-perfect movie but it is one of the reasons I can't embrace islamophobia wholeheartedly. I have been brainwashed by it. :(
Shitty movie.
Also, a far cry from the comic.
It looks like someone took the Elders of the Protocols of Zion and switched out the names. Which incidentally was the way that document was written.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 12, 2015, 02:54:35 PM
It looks like someone took the Elders of the Protocols of Zion and switched out the names. Which incidentally was the way that document was written.
I call what Seige posted Islamophbia.
Classic anti-Semitism.
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
Worked so well for the zionists.
Speaking of classics, http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/ (http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/) is a good essay on this type of thinking from about 50 years ago. The author notes that often there is a some degree of projection on these conspiracy theories the actions of the conspirators are often derived from the fantasies of the conspiracy theorist.
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
Come on. I could recraft and word smith that conspiracy dribble you posted to reflect Gays, Blacks, etc.
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
They are following stage 1 (arguably with elements of stage 2). But so has every other minority. The argument that stage 3 and 4 will follow is unsubstantiated as it has never happened in any modern society.
It's like me drafting 4 Stages of Siege Conquest:
1. Move to the US.
2. Start a profile on Languish.
3. Murder everybody on Languish.
4. Kill the entire world's populace.
And argue that you are clearly following that plan, as you have already done 1 and 2.
Yup.
Well put Marty.
January has been a good month for gay eloquence.
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
Actually no. The Islamic expansion into say, Persia, did not begin with "interfaith dialogue". What is found in "Stage 1" only leads to the events of "Stage 4", because the author says so.
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
They are following stage 1 (arguably with elements of stage 2). But so has every other minority. The argument that stage 3 and 4 will follow is unsubstantiated as it has never happened in any modern society.
It's like me drafting 4 Stages of Siege Conquest:
1. Move to the US.
2. Start a profile on Languish.
3. Murder everybody on Languish.
4. Kill the entire world's populace.
And argue that you are clearly following that plan, as you have already done 1 and 2.
So, you are saying this
isn't his plan? ;)
I thought Stage 1 was conquering the people with an army of camel archers. :hmm:
I don't think Siege is a, "plan", kind of guy.
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
That part reminding me of the anti-Semitic tracts. Judeo-Bolshevism makes way for Islam-Bolshevism. :D
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
They are following stage 1 (arguably with elements of stage 2). But so has every other minority. The argument that stage 3 and 4 will follow is unsubstantiated as it has never happened in any modern society.
It's like me drafting 4 Stages of Siege Conquest:
1. Move to the US.
2. Start a profile on Languish.
3. Murder everybody on Languish.
4. Kill the entire world's populace.
And argue that you are clearly following that plan, as you have already done 1 and 2.
Ok, good point.
However is different with muslims because they really want to rule the world.
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 12:31:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 12, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
Why would it be islamophobia?
They are clearly following those stages.
They are following stage 1 (arguably with elements of stage 2). But so has every other minority. The argument that stage 3 and 4 will follow is unsubstantiated as it has never happened in any modern society.
It's like me drafting 4 Stages of Siege Conquest:
1. Move to the US.
2. Start a profile on Languish.
3. Murder everybody on Languish.
4. Kill the entire world's populace.
And argue that you are clearly following that plan, as you have already done 1 and 2.
Ok, good point.
However is different with muslims because they really want to rule the world.
So do gays and Jews. Get on with the pogrom.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 12, 2015, 07:14:46 PM
I thought Stage 1 was conquering the people with an army of camel archers. :hmm:
Camel archers can be easily defeated with pikemen.
Because the camel archers replace the knights for the arabs, it means they only get them after researching Chivalry, while you can get pikemen way earlier by researching Civil Service. Not to mention that knights slaughter camel archers in melee combat.
Bottom line: Camel archers are not a good investment because by the time you can get them everybody got pikemen.
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
You think I am trolling about muslims wanting to conquer the world?
You forget that for me a musliman is not the old guy attending his little shop, but the angry young guy fully armed, praying and spraying at me with murder in his eye. Islam at large is a very evil culture who aims to subjugate all others.
The only reason the west does not see them as an existential threat is beacuse islam lacks the technological and industrial power to threaten the west militarily, which is why the moslem brotherhood came up with the four stages of islamic conquest above.
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
You think I am trolling about muslims wanting to conquer the world?
You forget that for me a musliman is not the old guy attending his little shop, but the angry young guy fully armed, praying and spraying at me with murder in his eye. Islam at large is a very evil culture who aims to subjugate all others.
The only reason the west does not see them as an existential threat is beacuse islam lacks the technological and industrial power to threaten the west militarily, which is why the moslem brotherhood came up with the four stages of islamic conquest above.
I said you are semi-trolling. I think you believe in things you say but you exaggerate them for entertainment value.
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
You think I am trolling about muslims wanting to conquer the world?
You forget that for me a musliman is not the old guy attending his little shop, but the angry young guy fully armed, praying and spraying at me with murder in his eye. Islam at large is a very evil culture who aims to subjugate all others.
The only reason the west does not see them as an existential threat is beacuse islam lacks the technological and industrial power to threaten the west militarily, which is why the moslem brotherhood came up with the four stages of islamic conquest above.
Spraying at you? Is this some sort of sexual thing?
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2015, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
You think I am trolling about muslims wanting to conquer the world?
You forget that for me a musliman is not the old guy attending his little shop, but the angry young guy fully armed, praying and spraying at me with murder in his eye. Islam at large is a very evil culture who aims to subjugate all others.
The only reason the west does not see them as an existential threat is beacuse islam lacks the technological and industrial power to threaten the west militarily, which is why the moslem brotherhood came up with the four stages of islamic conquest above.
Spraying at you? Is this some sort of sexual thing?
You never heard of spray and pray?
Its how muslims shoot their AK-47s from the hip.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
As witnessed during the Spanish Civil War in the Republican side. -_-
Quote from: The Larch on January 13, 2015, 01:26:20 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
As witnessed during the Spanish Civil War in the Republican side. -_-
Yeah they got along great :P
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
JHC, Siege. How is is possible to be so nerdy and so stupid at the same time. Isn't there a rule about that shit?
I think Siege is semi-trolling. It's what I sometimes do - it is not full blown trolling as it is not about adopting inflammatory positions one disagrees with just to cause a stir - but it is about exaggerating one's views for entertainment purposes.
You think I am trolling about muslims wanting to conquer the world?
You forget that for me a musliman is not the old guy attending his little shop, but the angry young guy fully armed, praying and spraying at me with murder in his eye. Islam at large is a very evil culture who aims to subjugate all others.
The only reason the west does not see them as an existential threat is beacuse islam lacks the technological and industrial power to threaten the west militarily, which is why the moslem brotherhood came up with the four stages of islamic conquest above.
I said you are semi-trolling. I think you believe in things you say but you exaggerate them for entertainment value.
Martinus: You're a troll, you're really funny. You're really funny.
Siege: What do you mean I'm funny?
Martinus: It's funny, you know. It's a good troll, it's funny, you're a funny guy.
[laughs]
Siege: What do you mean, you mean the way I type? What?
Martinus: It's just, you know. You're just funny, it's... funny, the way you troll and everything.
Siege: [it becomes quiet] Funny how? What's funny about it?
Razgovory: Siege no, You got it all wrong.
Siege: Oh, oh, Raz. He's a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Funny how?
Martinus: Jus...
Siege: What?
Martinus: Just... ya know... you're funny.
Siege: You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up in the head with PTSD and what not, maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
Martinus: Just... you know, how funny you troll....?
Siege: No, no, I don't know, you said it. How do I know? You said I'm funny. How the FUCK am I funny, what the FUCK is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what's funny!
Martinus: [long pause] Get the fuck out of here, Siege!
Siege: [everyone laughs] Ya motherfucker! I almost had him, I almost had him. Ya stuttering prick ya. Raz, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, Marty. You may fold under islamic questioning.
I think Duque was right to call you a payaso.
Quote from: The Larch on January 13, 2015, 01:26:20 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
As witnessed during the Spanish Civil War in the Republican side. -_-
I meant similar goals with political Islam. :P
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 01:39:29 PM
I think Duque was right to call you a payaso.
Since when the hell do you speak castillian?
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 01:39:29 PM
I think Duque was right to call you a payaso.
Since when the hell do you speak castillian?
Who said I can speak it? That said ~6 years of Castilian and a few more of Mexican should count for something. -_-
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 01:39:29 PM
I think Duque was right to call you a payaso.
Since when the hell do you speak castillian?
Who said I can speak it? That said ~6 years of Castilian and a few more of Mexican should count for something. -_-
Anyway, do not pay attention to the Duke. He is completely wrong and does not speak castillian very well, typical aristocrat.
Just follow my advice and you will be fined when you travel to any iberian speaking country.
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Hella harsh!
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Hella harsh!
Hella?
Haven't heard that one since 1999 or thereabouts.
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Hella harsh!
:huh: really?
Can you name one piece of Siegy's previously given advice you'd follow?
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Hella harsh!
:huh: really?
Can you name one piece of Siegy's previously given advice you'd follow?
I think I'd be hard pressed to remember any advice given by a Languishite, let alone Siegy. -_-
Quote from: Barrister on January 13, 2015, 02:07:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
Siegy, no one is going to follow your advice on anything unless they're directly under your command.
Hella harsh!
Hella?
Haven't heard that one since 1999 or thereabouts.
Cool story, brah.
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 01:57:33 PM
Anyway, do not pay attention to the Duke. He is completely wrong and does not speak castillian very well, typical aristocrat.
Just follow my advice and you will be fined when you travel to any iberian speaking country.
I don't think its regarded as an offence to speak poor Spanish.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
not as much as similar goals but at least fellow travellers for a while. Seems communists (at least over here) seem to think that muslims will fight their revolution for them (and git rid of Israel while they're at it too). Seems like they've forgotten what happened to the non-islamic revolutionaries in Iran. At least that's how the local communists seem to be acting.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
What? Really?
Anarchism and Communism share the belief that "man is good by nature" and that the ideal society can be reached through the abolition of private property and mutual aid ("to each according to need, from each according to ability" et. al.). When the oppression of capital and oppression based on class, race, and nationality is swept aside, life will be grand for everyone and peace and prosperity will reign. So, we need a revolution to break the chains that bind us.
Those are pretty much the exact same goals.
The only real difference is that the Communists recognize that there needs to be strong State as an intermediary step as a transition between Capitalism and the Socialist Utopia, though the machinery of the state will eventually dissolve as the consciousness of the workers is expanded.
Conversely, the Anarchists hold that the intermediary strong state is just another form of violent coercion, with the new hierarchy taking the place of the Capitalist oppressive structures, being a destructive deviation from the march towards true Socialism.
At least, those are the classic theoretical underpinnings of Anarchism and Communism. It does seem the Anarchists got the bit about Communism not leading to a Socialist Utopia right.
I like that people still fall for the fact that Ideologue's nickname somehow implies he has a rudimentary knowledge of ideologies. :D
Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2015, 05:06:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 12, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how communists and anarchists have "similar goals."
What? Really?
Anarchism and Communism share the belief that "man is good by nature" and that the ideal society can be reached through the abolition of private property and mutual aid ("to each according to need, from each according to ability" et. al.). When the oppression of capital and oppression based on class, race, and nationality is swept aside, life will be grand for everyone and peace and prosperity will reign. So, we need a revolution to break the chains that bind us.
Those are pretty much the exact same goals.
The only real difference is that the Communists recognize that there needs to be strong State as an intermediary step as a transition between Capitalism and the Socialist Utopia, though the machinery of the state will eventually dissolve as the consciousness of the workers is expanded.
Conversely, the Anarchists hold that the intermediary strong state is just another form of violent coercion, with the new hierarchy taking the place of the Capitalist oppressive structures, being a destructive deviation from the march towards true Socialism.
At least, those are the classic theoretical underpinnings of Anarchism and Communism. It does seem the Anarchists got the bit about Communism not leading to a Socialist Utopia right.
Ahem.
To political Islam.Anyway, any communist who still believes in the withering of the State is an idiot.
Quote from: Gups on January 13, 2015, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 13, 2015, 01:57:33 PM
Anyway, do not pay attention to the Duke. He is completely wrong and does not speak castillian very well, typical aristocrat.
Just follow my advice and you will be fined when you travel to any iberian speaking country.
I don't think its regarded as an offence to speak poor Spanish.
:D
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 05:31:17 PM
I like that people still fall for the fact that Ideologue's nickname somehow implies he has a rudimentary knowledge of ideologies. :D
Yeah he's totally hopeless on French New Wave, for example.
So Siege, Marty and Raz will have your back when Seedy tells you to "get your fucking shinebox"? :hmm:
Well Marti will be tackling. Don't know if that counts as "have your back."
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2015, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 05:31:17 PM
I like that people still fall for the fact that Ideologue's nickname somehow implies he has a rudimentary knowledge of ideologies. :D
Yeah he's totally hopeless on French New Wave, for example.
Does not bode well for his review of Le Samouraï, though Melville inspired more the French New Wave than he was part of it. They parted ways quickly in any case.
Le Samourai's a problem, because the disc Netflix is passing around is busted. If it gets a Criterion blu-ray release, I'll probably pick it up blind, based on its influence: Ghost Dog and Drive can't be wrong. Anyway, isn't Melville more like proto-New Wave? He just made movies people might want to watch. I liked Bob le Flambeur pretty well, except for the fact it's a heist movie [spoiler]with no Goddamned heist[/spoiler].
Quote from: Ideologue on January 13, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Ahem. To political Islam.
Well... they all seem to favour the overthrow of the current order, possibly through violent means, to institute a new order that will lead to a promised ideal state.
It's not completely far fetched, though obviously a lot of details differ :)
QuoteAnyway, any communist who still believes in the withering of the State is an idiot.
It would require strong faith indeed.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 13, 2015, 06:48:11 PM
Le Samourai's a problem, because the disc Netflix is passing around is busted. If it gets a Criterion blu-ray release, I'll probably pick it up blind, based on its influence: Ghost Dog and Drive can't be wrong. Anyway, isn't Melville more like proto-New Wave? He just made movies people might want to watch. I liked Bob le Flambeur pretty well, except for the fact it's a heist movie [spoiler]with no Goddamned heist[/spoiler].
Add in John Woo's the Killer for le Samouraï, probably the most famous and influential movie it inspired. That's John Woo's best period for you, the Hong Kong years.
Yep, proto and godfather of the New wave in way cf. Silence of the sea but he also did some movies close to the New Wave spirit such as Léon Morin.
Hopefully, Criterion releases Le Samouraï on blu-ray with proper authoring because the first French blu-release was botched, while the second was passable. Cheap to get nowadays but no English subtitles anyways, and there has been some trouble in recognising both editions with recalls.
If you're a heist fanatic there's always le Cercle Rouge for you, can't remember if you reviewed it or not.
As for the heist question in Bob le Flambeur, that's the point of the movie, genre movies may be sometimes not that formulaic.