While they're scum of the worst sort, unless they have attacked the British military or government, not sure how they'd be guilty of treason.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29655099
QuoteIslamic State has become one of the most powerful jihadist groups in the world
UK jihadists who travel to Iraq or Syria to fight could be tried for treason, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has said.
He added that such people had "sworn personal allegiance" to Islamic State (IS) and therefore could potentially have committed the offence.
The last UK prosecution for treason was in 1946, when William Joyce was hanged for Nazi propaganda broadcasts.
Committing the offence involves being disloyal to the Crown.
Mr Hammond revealed that UK jihadists could be tried for treason when he was asked a question in the House of Commons by Conservative backbencher Philip Hollobone.
Mr Hollobone is the MP for Kettering
Mr Hollobone said: "Their [UK jihadists'] actions are treachery against Her Majesty, and aiding and abetting enemies of Her Majesty is one of the greatest offences a British citizen can commit."
Mr Hammond replied that there were "a number of offences under English law with which returning foreign fighters can be charged".
He added: "We have had a discussion about the allegiance question. We have seen people declaring that they have sworn personal allegiance to the so-called Islamic State.
'Family pleas for help'
"That does raise questions about their loyalty and allegiance to this country and about whether, as my honourable friend rightly says, the offence of treason could have been committed.
"I will certainly draw his remarks to the attention of the home secretary, who ultimately will be the person who needs to look at this."
Meanwhile, Scotland Yard's head of counter-terrorism Mark Rowley said that "dozens" of UK families have contacted the police in a bid to stop their relatives travelling to fight in Syria.
He also said "many" Britons, known to have travelled to Syria, had now returned to the UK and that police were in the process of attempting to arrest and prosecute them.
The government is in a very odd position when it is on the one hand decrying foreign fighters going to Syria while at the same time spent the last three years actively encouraging armed opposition against the Assad regime.
Quote from: Warspite on October 19, 2014, 06:52:15 AM
The government is in a very odd position when it is on the one hand decrying foreign fighters going to Syria while at the same time spent the last three years actively encouraging armed opposition against the Assad regime.
Well yes they are rather coming late to the party with the realisation that you'll end up with the wrong sort of Jihades (is there a right sort?) .
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 07:38:46 AM
Quote from: Warspite on October 19, 2014, 06:52:15 AM
The government is in a very odd position when it is on the one hand decrying foreign fighters going to Syria while at the same time spent the last three years actively encouraging armed opposition against the Assad regime.
Well yes they are rather coming late to the party with the realisation that you'll end up with the wrong sort of Jihades (is there a right sort?) .
I suppose one could say the dead sort. -_-
Quote from: garbon on October 19, 2014, 08:10:08 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 07:38:46 AM
Quote from: Warspite on October 19, 2014, 06:52:15 AM
The government is in a very odd position when it is on the one hand decrying foreign fighters going to Syria while at the same time spent the last three years actively encouraging armed opposition against the Assad regime.
Well yes they are rather coming late to the party with the realisation that you'll end up with the wrong sort of Jihades (is there a right sort?) .
I suppose one could say the dead sort. -_-
Agreed, the best sort.
Over here they're thinking of reviving a law of the '70s against mercenaries to fight the people leaving for Syia
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2014, 06:04:14 AM
While they're scum of the worst sort, unless they have attacked the British military or government, not sure how they'd be guilty of treason.
Once you've become an expert on English law, be sure to let us know.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 19, 2014, 08:54:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2014, 06:04:14 AM
While they're scum of the worst sort, unless they have attacked the British military or government, not sure how they'd be guilty of treason.
Once you've become an expert on English law, be sure to let us know.
What's weird is that the article speaks about that / Tim could even up William Joyce that the article mentions.
Norway actually has a law prohibiting fighting for foreign powers. So it's pretty easy to prosecute them provided you can prove they fought abroad.
Quote from: Viking on October 19, 2014, 09:21:51 AM
Norway actually has a law prohibiting fighting for foreign powers. So it's pretty easy to prosecute them provided you can prove they fought abroad.
Same in Poland.
Quote from: Martinus on October 19, 2014, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Viking on October 19, 2014, 09:21:51 AM
Norway actually has a law prohibiting fighting for foreign powers. So it's pretty easy to prosecute them provided you can prove they fought abroad.
Same in Poland.
Have they prosecuted any of the Polish pilots who served in the RAF during WWII under that law?
Quote from: dps on October 19, 2014, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 19, 2014, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Viking on October 19, 2014, 09:21:51 AM
Norway actually has a law prohibiting fighting for foreign powers. So it's pretty easy to prosecute them provided you can prove they fought abroad.
Same in Poland.
Have they prosecuted any of the Polish pilots who served in the RAF during WWII under that law?
In fact the Polish government in exile was based in the UK, it was allied to Britain and Polish pilots in RAF were serving as a part of Polish armed forces that were given over to the UK command by the Polish government.
So your idiotic attempt at trolling has: failed.
Quote from: garbon on October 19, 2014, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 19, 2014, 08:54:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2014, 06:04:14 AM
While they're scum of the worst sort, unless they have attacked the British military or government, not sure how they'd be guilty of treason.
Once you've become an expert on English law, be sure to let us know.
What's weird is that the article speaks about that / Tim could even up William Joyce that the article mentions.
What's odd about it, is they don't even mention one of the most salient facts about the Joyce case: He wasn't a British citizen and never had been one.
round them up, put them in plane, tell them it's going to syria, land in Damascus, inform Assad.
I could see how kidnapping and executing British citizens might qualify one for treason. But surely simpler to just charge them with aiding a terrorist organization.
I favour rule by 'government decree'/'Royal prerogative', at the start of a international conflict, foreign civil war, the government announced whether it's legal for nationals to go and fight in that conflict be it as mercenaries or volunteers.
I'd suggest the criteria the government uses to decided should be, does that side in conflict promote values similar to ours or are they against much that characterises our civilisation/state ? Secondary consideration should be given to broader national security issues.
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism. Whereas in Syria, whilst the regime isn't like us, much of the rebels forces are decidedly fascist in character, so travel to fight there would be banned, as would going to fight For the Assad government.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 19, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
round them up, put them in plane, tell them it's going to syria, land in Damascus, inform Assad.
^_^
Perhaps we should go all-out medieval on them and remind them of the West's age-old tradition when it comes to dealing with heretics and pagans; it just might deter them from immigrating.
G.
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism.
I dunno, I seem to remember reading how you guys gave George Orwell all sorts of shit about it.
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism.
Yeah, nothing says British values quite as much as exterminating priests and nuns, executing prisoners of war, subverting democracy, and running a secret police state. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 19, 2014, 09:09:56 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism.
Yeah, nothing says British values quite as much as exterminating priests and nuns, executing prisoners of war, subverting democracy, and running a secret police state. :)
And that was just Franco!
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 19, 2014, 09:09:56 PM
Yeah, nothing says British values quite as much as exterminating priests and nuns, executing prisoners of war, subverting democracy, and running a secret police state. :)
Eggs and omelettes, now there's a good chap.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 19, 2014, 09:09:56 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism.
Yeah, nothing says British values quite as much as exterminating priests and nuns, executing prisoners of war, subverting democracy, and running a secret police state. :)
Well I know it was not perfect but I fail to see any evidence of any of that occuring during the 1931-1936 Spanish Republic.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 19, 2014, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 19, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
So in the case of a conflict like the Spanish civil war, going to fight for the republican cause would be allowed, as it's also fighting against fascism.
I dunno, I seem to remember reading how you guys gave George Orwell all sorts of shit about it.
Which was clearly 'wrong'. :bowler:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 19, 2014, 06:04:14 AM
While they're scum of the worst sort, unless they have attacked the British military or government, not sure how they'd be guilty of treason.
By adhering to the enemies of the Realm.
Meanwhile, in Canada lone wolves are starting to strike. It has been confirmed by RCMP that the guy was doing jihadist propaganda over Facebook and other social medias.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/driver-shot-by-police-after-hitting-2-soldiers-in-saint-jean-sur-richelieu-has-died-1.2806104
QuoteDriver shot by police after hitting 2 soldiers in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu has died
Incident raised in House of Commons as MP asks about 'possible terror attack'
A driver who was shot by police after striking two Canadian Forces members in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que., earlier today has died.
Quebec provincial police said the 25-year-old man was a resident of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and was known to police, but would not elaborate how.
Police confirmed the suspect's death Monday evening, several hours after he was transported to hospital with life-threatening injuries.
The incident began at around 11:30 a.m. ET when the two soldiers were hit in a parking lot of a commercial plaza. Both were injured, one critically.
The incident was raised in the House of Commons this afternoon by Conservative MP Randy Hoback, who questioned Prime Minister Stephen Harper about "unconfirmed reports of a possible terror attack" targeting members of the Canadian Forces.
Harper, reading from a piece of paper, would only say he was "aware of these reports" and that they are troubling.
The government did not specify the source of the reports mentioned by Hoback.
Police have not named the soldiers but confirmed at an afternoon news conference that they were members of the Forces.
When asked about the reports mentioned in Parliament, Lt. Guy Lapointe of the Sûreté du Québec said police are looking into whether the victims were targeted.
Police shooting Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu
The chase ended when the suspect lost control of his vehicle and it flipped into a ditch. (Alain Beland/Radio Canada)
"All I can say is that the theory that this is a deliberate act is part of what we'll be looking at," he said. "But it's really too early to speculate at this point."
Shot by police after pursuit
Lapointe said officers from the Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu police spotted the suspect not long after the soldiers were hit and followed the driver for four kilometres.
The chase ended when the suspect lost control of his car, flipping it into a ditch.
Police said the man got out of the vehicle and several shots were fired by officers.
Nathalie Vanasse was driving by with her husband when she saw the vehicle in the ditch.
"I was scared. I started crying. I wanted to get out of my car to go help, before the shots were fired ... I heard and saw shots being fired — seven shots," she said.
"I saw a police officer jump to the side to protect himself. That's when I saw the suspect fall to the ground."
Lone wolves have started to strike? Why the plural?
One of the soldier died.
We know a little more.
Soldiers from St-Jean-sur-Richelieu regularly go to a Canada Service Center. He waited until some soldiers showed up, then hit them with his car. It was an ambush, really.
And he was on terror watch, sort of. Authorities had already removed his passport to avoid him joining with EI in Syria.
CBC Link (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/soldier-struck-by-martin-rouleau-in-st-jean-sur-richelieu-que-hit-and-run-dies-1.2807078)
Yeah I'm sure countries like the UK or Norway criminalizing being a mercenary has people scared. Why, if they get caught they'll be sent to bed without cookies and have to serve 2 weeks in prison.
Islam is the Ebola of civilizations. So since you people are squeamish about eradicating the evil at its source then the least that can be done is the following train of measures - designed to contain the threat:
I move than all ostentatious Muslim religious signs be banned from anywhere in the public sphere - that any Islamic related website be interdicted - that all mosques be shut down - that all communications with predominantly Muslim countries be restricted - that all port/airport connections towards predominantly Muslim countries be quarantined and that all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries be forbidden.
If we will not kill them outright then at least we can suffocate them within our midst.
G.
Ebola, really? Wouldn't it make "sense" to pick a less flashy disease that has racked up a greater kill count?
The beeb over the last couple of days has had coverage of two Americans separately fighting with the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Seems like a worthwhile thing to do, one of them was a Gulf War 1 veteran, didn't catch the allegiance of the second guy, though think he might have had some Kurdish heritage/linkage.
Quote from: Grallon on October 21, 2014, 07:25:28 PM
Islam is the Ebola of civilizations. So since you people are squeamish about eradicating the evil at its source then the least that can be done is the following train of measures - designed to contain the threat:
I move than all ostentatious Muslim religious signs be banned from anywhere in the public sphere - that any Islamic related website be interdicted - that all mosques be shut down - that all communications with predominantly Muslim countries be restricted - that all port/airport connections towards predominantly Muslim countries be quarantined and that all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries be forbidden.
If we will not kill them outright then at least we can suffocate them within our midst.
G.
But with France cut off from the Western world, Quebec would become instead the heart of the French culture. Is this your plan? :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on October 21, 2014, 07:41:39 PM
Ebola, really? Wouldn't it make "sense" to pick a less flashy disease that has racked up a greater kill count?
Bubonic plague?