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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:14:10 PM

Title: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:14:10 PM
Okay, maybe that's a slightly lurid interpretation, but:

QuoteIn this month's issue of Personality and Individual Differences, a study was published that confirms what we all suspected: Internet trolls are horrible people.

Let's start by getting our definitions straight: An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.

What kind of person would do this? Some Canadian researchers decided to find out.

They conducted two online studies with over 1,200 people, giving personality tests to each subject along with a survey about their Internet commenting behavior. They were looking for evidence that linked trolling with the "Dark Tetrad" of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadism.

They found that Dark Tetrad scores were highest among people who said trolling was their favorite Internet activity. To get an idea of how much more prevalent these traits were among Internet trolls, see this figure from the paper:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sussexpublishers.netdna-cdn.com%2Farticle-inline-full%2Fblogs%2F159575%2F2014%2F09%2F160044-164454.png&hash=c8ca35fe33cc7cf5ca92c0030cdfe8050aa901b6)

Look at how low the Dark Tetrad scores are for everyone except the trolls! Their scores for all four traits soar on the chart. The relationship between trolling and the Dark Tetrad is so significant that the authors write in their paper:

"... the associations between sadism and GAIT (Global Assessment of Internet Trolling) scores were so strong that it might be said that online trolls are prototypical everyday sadists."

Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad. To quote the authors once more (because this is a truly quotable article): "Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others. Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: mongers on October 03, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Damn, I'm sure no one ever mentioned they'd be studying us when we registered at Languish.  <_<
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2014, 06:27:23 PM
Curious as to what Machiavellianism is and how it's a negative trait.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2014, 06:27:23 PM
Curious as to what Machiavellianism is and how it's a negative trait.

Wikipedia to the rescue!

Quote from: WikipediaMachiavellianism is also a term that some social and personality psychologists use to describe a person's tendency to be unemotional, and therefore able to detach him or herself from conventional morality and hence to deceive and manipulate others. In the 1960s, Richard Christie and Florence L. Geis developed a test for measuring a person's level of Machiavellianism (sometimes referred to as the Machiavelli test). Their Mach - IV test, a twenty-statement personality survey, became the standard self-assessment tool of Machiavellianism. People scoring high on the scale (high Machs) tend to endorse statements such as, "Never tell anyone the real reason you did something unless it is useful to do so," (No. 1) but not ones like, "Most people are basically good and kind" (No. 4), "There is no excuse for lying to someone else," (No. 7) or "Most people who get ahead in the world lead clean, moral lives" (No. 11). Using their scale, Christie and Geis conducted multiple experimental tests that showed that the interpersonal strategies and behavior of "High Machs" and "Low Machs" differ. Their basic results have been widely replicated.

QuoteMachiavellianism is one of the three personality traits referred to as the dark triad, along with narcissism and psychopathy. Some psychologists consider Machiavellianism to be essentially a subclinical form of psychopathy...

QuoteMachiavellianism has been found to lie diagonally opposite from a circumplex construct called self-construal, a tendency to prefer communion over agency. This suggests that people high in machiavellianism do not simply wish to achieve, they wish to do so at the expense of (or at least without regard to) others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism#Psychology

So, apparently, Machiavellianism is the tendency to hide your motivations and manipulate others to get what you want, without regard to how it affects them (or possibly even taking pleasure in the negative impact on them).
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Capetan Mihali on October 03, 2014, 06:45:09 PM
It's the tendency to violently advocate for gaoling the indigenous peoples of the frozen North American tundra.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: LaCroix on October 03, 2014, 06:50:03 PM
"favorite activity online." sure, that makes sense, but it doesn't really help to find out whether internet trolls are terrible people
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on October 03, 2014, 06:50:03 PM
"favorite activity online." sure, that makes sense, but it doesn't really help to find out whether internet trolls are terrible people

There's a strong correspondence between:

1) Trolling being a favourite activity online

2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism). This is colloquially rephrased as "being terrible people".

... seems close enough for pop-science reporting.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2014, 06:27:23 PM
Curious as to what Machiavellianism is and how it's a negative trait.

Wikipedia to the rescue!

Quote from: WikipediaMachiavellianism is also a term that some social and personality psychologists use to describe a person's tendency to be unemotional, and therefore able to detach him or herself from conventional morality and hence to deceive and manipulate others. In the 1960s, Richard Christie and Florence L. Geis developed a test for measuring a person's level of Machiavellianism (sometimes referred to as the Machiavelli test). Their Mach - IV test, a twenty-statement personality survey, became the standard self-assessment tool of Machiavellianism. People scoring high on the scale (high Machs) tend to endorse statements such as, "Never tell anyone the real reason you did something unless it is useful to do so," (No. 1) but not ones like, "Most people are basically good and kind" (No. 4), "There is no excuse for lying to someone else," (No. 7) or "Most people who get ahead in the world lead clean, moral lives" (No. 11). Using their scale, Christie and Geis conducted multiple experimental tests that showed that the interpersonal strategies and behavior of "High Machs" and "Low Machs" differ. Their basic results have been widely replicated.

QuoteMachiavellianism is one of the three personality traits referred to as the dark triad, along with narcissism and psychopathy. Some psychologists consider Machiavellianism to be essentially a subclinical form of psychopathy...

QuoteMachiavellianism has been found to lie diagonally opposite from a circumplex construct called self-construal, a tendency to prefer communion over agency. This suggests that people high in machiavellianism do not simply wish to achieve, they wish to do so at the expense of (or at least without regard to) others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism#Psychology

So, apparently, Machiavellianism is the tendency to hide your motivations and manipulate others to get what you want, without regard to how it affects them (or possibly even taking pleasure in the negative impact on them).

In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Ideologue on October 03, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
Oh yeah, science?  Your mom's a dark tard.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2014, 07:40:32 PM
So what's in other that's not debating/chatting? Tim news posts?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:41:35 PM
Shitcock.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM
In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.

Okay this is really bad of me. Thinking what I know of Machiavelli - I was going to define the term as "being a sad sack who is all QQ when he can't get a job."

:( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM
In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.

Okay this is really bad of me. Thinking what I know of Machiavelli - I was going to define the term as "being a sad sack who is all QQ when he can't get a job."

:( :( :( :( :(

Well, that would be incorrect.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 07:53:09 PM
Trolls are pretty horrible.  It is amazing the sort of chaos and harm you can cause just be being a horrible person with an internet connection.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM


In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.

That's fair, but they probably haven't read up on Sade's work either.  Actually, I'm willing to bet you are the only one on this board who's read his works.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: mongers on October 03, 2014, 07:57:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 07:53:09 PM
Trolls are pretty horrible.  It is amazing the sort of chaos and harm you can cause just be being a horrible person with an internet connection.

This I find hard to believe, have you and evidence, say from an internet forum, any at all post from here?  <_<
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 07:53:09 PM
Trolls are pretty horrible.  It is amazing the sort of chaos and harm you can cause just be being a horrible person with an internet connection.

And a webcam, a knife and a hostage.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 07:59:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 07:58:39 PM
And a webcam, a knife and a hostage.

Well that is less surprising :P
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2014, 07:59:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM


In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.

That's fair, but they probably haven't read up on Sade's work either.  Actually, I'm willing to bet you are the only one on this board who's read his works.

I've read some but found them dull.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 08:02:16 PM
You just like to hard to get along with.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2014, 08:04:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 08:02:16 PM
You just like to hard to get along with.

What's that about getting hard?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 03, 2014, 08:26:33 PM
Duh. They trolled the survey.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 09:56:38 PM
How is trolling defined?  Is it just being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake, or is it more malicious than that?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 09:56:38 PM
How is trolling defined?  Is it just being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake, or is it more malicious than that?

Posts from poor civil servants in HK who just want to drive.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 10:34:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 09:56:38 PM
How is trolling defined?  Is it just being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake, or is it more malicious than that?

Good question.  I guess I think of trolls being people who enjoy screwing with people online to some degree.  Some of them will get quite malicious because they can and stuff.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 10:34:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 09:56:38 PM
How is trolling defined?  Is it just being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake, or is it more malicious than that?

Good question.  I guess I think of trolls being people who enjoy screwing with people online to some degree.  Some of them will get quite malicious because they can and stuff.

My impression was that it was self-determined "my favourite activity on the internet is trolling" combined with other psychological measurements.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Barrister on October 03, 2014, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 03, 2014, 06:45:09 PM
It's the tendency to violently advocate for gaoling the indigenous peoples of the frozen North American tundra.

:D
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 11:37:07 PM
As I read through all 14 pages of the HK thread, I was wondering whether Mono is a troll or a psychopath.  I guess it doesn't really matter, if this study is to be believed.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 11:37:07 PM
As I read through all 14 pages of the HK thread, I was wondering whether Mono is a troll or a psychopath.

He's neither;  he's Chinese, and that thread simply illustrates his Chineseness.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2014, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism).

The article calls it "Tetrad", with the forth trait, sadism, being split into two subgroups. [/nitpick] ;)
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:23:31 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 09:56:38 PM
How is trolling defined?  Is it just being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake, or is it more malicious than that?

I think being an ass in an Internet discussion for its own sake falls under the "debaters". Who, by the way, also seem like bad people but less than trolls.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:24:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 03, 2014, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2014, 07:27:39 PM


In short, "Machiavellianism" is simply a catchy phrase coined for a field that relies on labels by individuals who have never read a single word by Machiavelli.

That's fair, but they probably haven't read up on Sade's work either.  Actually, I'm willing to bet you are the only one on this board who's read his works.

I read Sade's works. And machiavellanism is a well recognised term for manipulative behaviour.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:24:51 AM
And machiavellanism is a well recognised term for manipulative behaviour.

It's a bullshit term.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:40:35 AM
Incidentally, most gay people I know (myself included) display various degrees of Machiavellian and Narcissistic behaviour.

I guess growing up in a (potentially) hostile environment, where you have a secret which, when revealed could potentially turn any stranger, friend or even family member into - sometimes violent - foe, but at the same time makes you seem more unique and interesting to other people, does stuff to your head. :P
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2014, 12:43:09 AM
Camille Paglia proposed that the psychological root of homosexuality is narcissism.  You love yourself so much you try to fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:47:39 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2014, 12:43:09 AM
Camille Paglia proposed that the psychological root of homosexuality is narcissism.  You love yourself so much you try to fuck yourself.

Wouldn't psychological orientation be developed before someone has a time to develop narcissism?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 04, 2014, 12:52:58 AM
I don't see why a person can't be born with some narcissism.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2014, 12:59:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:40:35 AM
Incidentally, most gay people I know (myself included) display various degrees of Machiavellian and Narcissistic behaviour.

I guess growing up in a (potentially) hostile environment, where you have a secret which, when revealed could potentially turn any stranger, friend or even family member into - sometimes violent - foe, but at the same time makes you seem more unique and interesting to other people, does stuff to your head. :P

So what you're saying is that gays are bad people?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2014, 11:37:07 PM
As I read through all 14 pages of the HK thread, I was wondering whether Mono is a troll or a psychopath.

He's neither;  he's Chinese, and that thread simply illustrates his Chineseness.

Fuck, when it comes down to it, a lot of posters here are like him.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:01:03 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 04, 2014, 12:59:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:40:35 AM
Incidentally, most gay people I know (myself included) display various degrees of Machiavellian and Narcissistic behaviour.

I guess growing up in a (potentially) hostile environment, where you have a secret which, when revealed could potentially turn any stranger, friend or even family member into - sometimes violent - foe, but at the same time makes you seem more unique and interesting to other people, does stuff to your head. :P

So what you're saying is that gays are bad people?  :hmm:

Not bad per se but pretty fucked up and difficult, yes.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia. Generally, any time someone is mean to you or treats you poorly or does not give you something you think you deserve, you tend to blame this on that person's homophobia. While this is often true, it also tends to lead to a victim mentality and does not lend itself well to self-reflection (whereas, in some cases, people may treat you badly just because you are genuinely obnoxious, and not because you are gay). I suppose other minorities/discriminated groups have this too.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2014, 02:49:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 12:24:51 AM
And machiavellanism is a well recognised term for manipulative behaviour.

It's a bullshit term.

:yes:

Soft heads lead to soft science.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2014, 02:52:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia.

2014: Mart discovers homosexuality. :wacko:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 03:46:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2014, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism).

The article calls it "Tetrad", with the forth trait, sadism, being split into two subgroups. [/nitpick] ;)

Dark Triad is the more popular term.  I don't think the idea ever got a great deal of traction outside pop psychology.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: LaCroix on October 04, 2014, 04:41:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PMThere's a strong correspondence between:

1) Trolling being a favourite activity online

2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism). This is colloquially rephrased as "being terrible people".

... seems close enough for pop-science reporting.

my point focused more on people reporting "favorite" activity. people troll in many ways, whether it's to mock someone they've beat in an online game or post an incendiary youtube comment. but,  i'm not sure how many people would actually say "trolling is my favorite internet activity" when there are so many internet activities. it makes sense some pretty deranged people answer that's their favorite activity online, but normal internet trolls probably do not consider trolling their favorite internet activity. it's a flawed argument. some internet trolls are awful people, but not all internet trolls are awful people.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia. Generally, any time someone is mean to you or treats you poorly or does not give you something you think you deserve, you tend to blame this on that person's homophobia. While this is often true, it also tends to lead to a victim mentality and does not lend itself well to self-reflection (whereas, in some cases, people may treat you badly just because you are genuinely obnoxious, and not because you are gay). I suppose other minorities/discriminated groups have this too.

Is a "you" in this paragraph a stand in for "Martinus"? :unsure:

Also from your earlier post, I would suggest meeting more gay people. Most I know do not fit your description.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:34:04 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on October 04, 2014, 04:41:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PMThere's a strong correspondence between:

1) Trolling being a favourite activity online

2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism). This is colloquially rephrased as "being terrible people".

... seems close enough for pop-science reporting.

my point focused more on people reporting "favorite" activity. people troll in many ways, whether it's to mock someone they've beat in an online game or post an incendiary youtube comment. but,  i'm not sure how many people would actually say "trolling is my favorite internet activity" when there are so many internet activities. it makes sense some pretty deranged people answer that's their favorite activity online, but normal internet trolls probably do not consider trolling their favorite internet activity. it's a flawed argument. some internet trolls are awful people, but not all internet trolls are awful people.

Of course the graph demonstrates that question was favorite activity when posting online. I think that's very different from favorite Internet activity.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Jacob on October 04, 2014, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:34:04 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on October 04, 2014, 04:41:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PMThere's a strong correspondence between:

1) Trolling being a favourite activity online

2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism). This is colloquially rephrased as "being terrible people".

... seems close enough for pop-science reporting.

my point focused more on people reporting "favorite" activity. people troll in many ways, whether it's to mock someone they've beat in an online game or post an incendiary youtube comment. but,  i'm not sure how many people would actually say "trolling is my favorite internet activity" when there are so many internet activities. it makes sense some pretty deranged people answer that's their favorite activity online, but normal internet trolls probably do not consider trolling their favorite internet activity. it's a flawed argument. some internet trolls are awful people, but not all internet trolls are awful people.

Of course the graph demonstrates that question was favorite activity when posting online. I think that's very different from favorite Internet activity.

Sounds to me that lacroix is telling us that he's not awful people in spite of enjoying being a troll?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2014, 10:12:27 AM
:D
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: LaCroix on October 04, 2014, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:34:04 AMOf course the graph demonstrates that question was favorite activity when posting online. I think that's very different from favorite Internet activity.

ah, yeah. mistake on my part. but, it still doesn't really change my point. it's not a great indicator because it doesn't include the numbers for people who just like to troll occasionally.

Quote from: JacobSounds to me that lacroix is telling us that he's not awful people in spite of enjoying being a troll?

:D

nope, awful is kind of subjective. i absolutely have narcissistic traits (though i don't think i have NPD). i was just pointing out that the study is really flawed.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2014, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 03:46:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2014, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism).

The article calls it "Tetrad", with the forth trait, sadism, being split into two subgroups. [/nitpick] ;)

Dark Triad is the more popular term.  I don't think the idea ever got a great deal of traction outside pop psychology.

Isn't the "dark triad" the serial killer thing about bedwetting, torturing animals, and something else?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2014, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2014, 01:07:38 PM
Isn't the "dark triad" the serial killer thing about bedwetting, torturing animals, and something else?

I've only heard of it in terms of the (IIRC) callous-manipulative personality type.  There may be a triad type thing associated with serial killers, but I don't think it is called "the dark triad."
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2014, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 03:46:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2014, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism).

The article calls it "Tetrad", with the forth trait, sadism, being split into two subgroups. [/nitpick] ;)

Dark Triad is the more popular term.  I don't think the idea ever got a great deal of traction outside pop psychology.

That's a different triads.  There are more triads in Psychology then there are in China.

Isn't the "dark triad" the serial killer thing about bedwetting, torturing animals, and something else?

That's a the MacMillian triad.  There are more triads in Psychology then there are in China.  It's BS though.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2014, 02:25:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
That's a the MacMillian triad.  There are more triads in Psychology then there are in China.  It's BS though.

The MacMillian triad, or Psychology?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 02:26:38 PM
Heh.  That would be telling.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia. Generally, any time someone is mean to you or treats you poorly or does not give you something you think you deserve, you tend to blame this on that person's homophobia. While this is often true, it also tends to lead to a victim mentality and does not lend itself well to self-reflection (whereas, in some cases, people may treat you badly just because you are genuinely obnoxious, and not because you are gay). I suppose other minorities/discriminated groups have this too.

Is a "you" in this paragraph a stand in for "Martinus"? :unsure:

Also from your earlier post, I would suggest meeting more gay people. Most I know do not fit your description.

Well, I count you among those who do.  :secret:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
I got the name wrong.  I ,looked it up, it's the MacDonald Triad.  As if there aren't enough clowns in Psychology. :glare:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
it's the MacDonald Triad. 

For a limited time?
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 05, 2014, 12:21:32 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
it's the MacDonald Triad. 

For a limited time?

You get four bad traits for a price of three.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 05, 2014, 12:22:59 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2014, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2014, 03:46:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2014, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 06:59:36 PM2) High scores in the "dark triad" personality traits (amusingly breaking down to more than three traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, direct sadism, and vicarious sadism).

The article calls it "Tetrad", with the forth trait, sadism, being split into two subgroups. [/nitpick] ;)

Dark Triad is the more popular term.  I don't think the idea ever got a great deal of traction outside pop psychology.

Isn't the "dark triad" the serial killer thing about bedwetting, torturing animals, and something else?

The third one is probably about, you know, killing many people. :P
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Razgovory on October 05, 2014, 04:40:08 AM
Nope.  Fire starting.  I think killing animals is a good indicator but the fire starting seems ambiguous and the bed wetting doesn't hold up.  The serial killer thing is about identifying a child who may become a serial killer.  The idea is that these three behaviors are "red flags".  The wiki article says that it's still taught to cops.  I don't know anything about that, CdM probably does.  I do remember when he was talking about Bill Frisk he mentioned that cutting up animals is a precursor to becoming a serial killer.

Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
Yeah, animal abuse is a known precursor in most serial killers;  fire starting not so much, that usually leads to becoming a fireman.

What most serial killers have in common Is fucked up mothers, the ones that would turn tricks in front of Junior or send him to school in a dress. The bios of many of the big name serial killers have fucked up mothers in them.

An absentee father may lead to stealing a car, but a psycho mother will have you cutting up prostitutes.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 05, 2014, 09:42:31 AM
I thought the overprotective mother/absentee father has been proven to be bullshit and just a pop psychology.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 05, 2014, 09:47:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia. Generally, any time someone is mean to you or treats you poorly or does not give you something you think you deserve, you tend to blame this on that person's homophobia. While this is often true, it also tends to lead to a victim mentality and does not lend itself well to self-reflection (whereas, in some cases, people may treat you badly just because you are genuinely obnoxious, and not because you are gay). I suppose other minorities/discriminated groups have this too.

Is a "you" in this paragraph a stand in for "Martinus"? :unsure:

Also from your earlier post, I would suggest meeting more gay people. Most I know do not fit your description.

Well, I count you among those who do.  :secret:

Well clearly you don't know me that well. I don't think I've ever made a claim about being mistreated because I was gay. Nor do I think being gay makes a person more unique and interesting to people. :huh:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Martinus on October 05, 2014, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 05, 2014, 09:47:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2014, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
There is also an effect that I could call a reverse homophobia. Generally, any time someone is mean to you or treats you poorly or does not give you something you think you deserve, you tend to blame this on that person's homophobia. While this is often true, it also tends to lead to a victim mentality and does not lend itself well to self-reflection (whereas, in some cases, people may treat you badly just because you are genuinely obnoxious, and not because you are gay). I suppose other minorities/discriminated groups have this too.

Is a "you" in this paragraph a stand in for "Martinus"? :unsure:

Also from your earlier post, I would suggest meeting more gay people. Most I know do not fit your description.

Well, I count you among those who do.  :secret:

Well clearly you don't know me that well. I don't think I've ever made a claim about being mistreated because I was gay. Nor do I think being gay makes a person more unique and interesting to people. :huh:

I was referring more to the fact that you seem to have a difficult personality.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: The Brain on October 05, 2014, 10:11:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
What most serial killers have in common Is fucked up mothers,

:hmm:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2014, 10:40:21 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 05, 2014, 10:11:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
What most serial killers have in common Is fucked up mothers,

:hmm:

:P Mom's on the Everybody Loves Raymond side of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2014, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 05, 2014, 09:42:31 AM
I thought the overprotective mother/absentee father has been proven to be bullshit and just a pop psychology.

Meh.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Malthus on October 06, 2014, 08:53:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 05, 2014, 04:40:08 AM
Nope.  Fire starting.  I think killing animals is a good indicator but the fire starting seems ambiguous and the bed wetting doesn't hold up.  The serial killer thing is about identifying a child who may become a serial killer.  The idea is that these three behaviors are "red flags".  The wiki article says that it's still taught to cops.  I don't know anything about that, CdM probably does.  I do remember when he was talking about Bill Frisk he mentioned that cutting up animals is a precursor to becoming a serial killer.

Fire starting? Killing animals?

This describes people on a fishing trip.  ;)
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2014, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 06, 2014, 08:53:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 05, 2014, 04:40:08 AM
Nope.  Fire starting.  I think killing animals is a good indicator but the fire starting seems ambiguous and the bed wetting doesn't hold up.  The serial killer thing is about identifying a child who may become a serial killer.  The idea is that these three behaviors are "red flags".  The wiki article says that it's still taught to cops.  I don't know anything about that, CdM probably does.  I do remember when he was talking about Bill Frisk he mentioned that cutting up animals is a precursor to becoming a serial killer.

Fire starting? Killing animals?

This describes people on a fishing trip.  ;)

Enough said.
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: Caliga on October 06, 2014, 10:42:51 AM
 :wacko:
Title: Re: Science Says: Internet Trolls = Genuinely Bad People
Post by: grumbler on October 07, 2014, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 06, 2014, 08:53:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 05, 2014, 04:40:08 AM
Nope.  Fire starting.  I think killing animals is a good indicator but the fire starting seems ambiguous and the bed wetting doesn't hold up.  The serial killer thing is about identifying a child who may become a serial killer.  The idea is that these three behaviors are "red flags".  The wiki article says that it's still taught to cops.  I don't know anything about that, CdM probably does.  I do remember when he was talking about Bill Frisk he mentioned that cutting up animals is a precursor to becoming a serial killer.

Fire starting? Killing animals?

This describes people on a fishing trip.  ;)
:lol: