This will be of interest to some of you - the dissapearance of the Franklin Expedition was one of the great mysteries of its time.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/lost-ship-from-sir-john-franklins-arctic-expedition-found/article20490498/
Wow! Awesome :cool:
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was
the greatest mystery of its time.
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was the greatest mystery of its time.
Well, you would know. :D
Cool. I read The Terror a few years back.
Any survivors?
Aretha too.
Quote from: The Brain on September 09, 2014, 01:28:42 PM
Any survivors?
One cabin boy, who was so demented by his ordeal, and by eating food canned with lead, that he grew up to become Jack the Ripper.
You can read all about it in my new book ...
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 09, 2014, 01:28:42 PM
Any survivors?
One cabin boy, who was so demented by his ordeal, and by eating food canned with lead, that he grew up to become Jack the Ripper.
You can read all about it in my new book ...
In 100 years? :rolleyes:
This is super cool. I've read a few books on both the Frankling expedition, and on the subsequent efforts to find it.
M's title is slightly misleading (though not technically incorrect, in the finest legal tradition) - while they are saying a Franklin expedition ship was found, there were actually two of them, and they don't know which one this was (Erebus or Terror).
Quote from: The Brain on September 09, 2014, 02:20:39 PM
In 100 years? :rolleyes:
That's not gonna help Malthus's Stroller Fund, unless people are willing to pay well in advance.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 09, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 09, 2014, 02:20:39 PM
In 100 years? :rolleyes:
That's not gonna help Malthus's Stroller Fund, unless people are willing to pay well in advance.
Indeed, they would have to go back in time to pay me. :D
Damn, I bet Tim's pissed about not posting this topic first. :(
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was the greatest mystery of its time.
Well, you would know. :D
And now you know that, on Languish, for about 4 minutes in Sept 2014, it was
the greatest mystery of its thread. Then someone else posted a thread.
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was the greatest mystery of its time.
Say "whoosh" if you will, but I don't get the reference. Between the time the expedition went missing (1849-50), and when McClintock discovered the cairn giving at least a partial account (1859) it was perhaps the greatest mystery of it's time.
It looks like it's in really good shape. How deep down would it be?
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Damn, I bet Tim's pissed about not posting this topic first. :(
Do you think the Peanuts character was named after the expedition?
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2014, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was the greatest mystery of its time.
Say "whoosh" if you will, but I don't get the reference. Between the time the expedition went missing (1849-50), and when McClintock discovered the cairn giving at least a partial account (1859) it was perhaps the greatest mystery of it's time.
My statement was purely tongue in cheek.
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2014, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 09, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
... one of the great mysteries of its time.
I'd argue that, for four hours in July, 1850, it was the greatest mystery of its time.
Say "whoosh" if you will, but I don't get the reference. Between the time the expedition went missing (1849-50), and when McClintock discovered the cairn giving at least a partial account (1859) it was perhaps the greatest mystery of it's time.
My statement was purely tongue in cheek.
Ah, gotcha. :)
Awesome find. Was thinking of BB when I saw that, cause I know he's interest.
I've read a couple books on this too. Plus one work of fiction that's worth reading by Dan Simmons called Terror.
Interesting tidbit I learned in the paper: the HMS Terror was one of the British flotilla that shelled Ft. McHenry.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 11, 2014, 07:45:51 PM
Interesting tidbit I learned in the paper: the HMS Terror was one of the British flotilla that shelled Ft. McHenry.
HMS Terror was also a very satisfactory monitor, sunk due to cowardly dive-bombing attacks.
That would be an incorrect statement. There's no such thing as cowardly dive-bombing.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 11, 2014, 08:09:04 PM
That would be an incorrect statement. There's no such thing as cowardly dive-bombing.
Normally I would agree that dive bombing is a test of courage, screaming down into a hail of AA fire. But when it's twin-engine bombers in gentle dives on 1940 RN AA suites, it's probably not quite as dangerous.
Turns out I've got a six-degrees of separation connection to the expedition. :w00t:
QuoteHigh-tech sleuthing key to hunt for ships in Arctic
It took an arsenal of electronic devices to hunt down the Franklin expedition shipwreck.
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Surveyors in the hunt for signs of the Franklin expedition also used LiDAR, or laser technology that creates incredibly detailed images from the air and on land.VIEW 3 PHOTOSzoom
LIDAR IMAGE
Surveyors in the hunt for signs of the Franklin expedition also used LiDAR, or laser technology that creates incredibly detailed images from the air and on land.
By: Paul Watson Star Columnist, Published on Tue Sep 09 2014
ABOARD CCGS SIR WILFRID LAURIER—It took an arsenal of electronic devices to hunt down the Franklin expedition shipwreck.
There were multi-beam 3D sonar towfishes, pinging off uncharted Arctic seabed, as hydrographers' boats found the clearest paths to prime search areas.
Underwater archeologists used less sophisticated sidescan sonar, towed behind a boat, to scan the seafloor for telltale shapes that could lead them to a wreck.
The Klein System 3000, a silver bullet-nosed towfish with two black fins, delivered big time by creating the sonar image that gave Parks Canada underwater archeologists that eureka moment last week.
But it was their Falcon Seaeye remotely operated vehicle, or ROV, that put eyes on one of Sir John Franklin's three-masters for the first time since Inuit reported seeing the deserted vessel floating on an ice floe in the mid-19th century.
The ROV was attached by fibre optic cables to a control unit piloted by senior underwater archeologist Ryan Harris.
In rolling seas, battling currents and looming Arctic darkness, he deftly steered the ROV toward the wreck to get stunning video from the vehicle's high-resolution camera.
He had to be extremely careful not to collide with the wreck, more to protect the integrity of the historic site than to avoid damaging the ROV.
Surveyors also used LiDAR, or laser technology that creates incredibly detailed images from the air and on land.
Douglas Stenton, Nunavut's director of heritage, and Robert Park, a University of Waterloo archeology professor also used LiDAR to map the crucial discovery of pieces of a wooden deck plug from a Franklin Expedition ship.
They borrowed the expensive equipment from S. Brooke Milne, an anthropology professor at the University of Manitoba, to field test it during about of month of mapping archeology sites.
LiDAR images give the archeologists an exquisitely detailed map of site surfaces so they can detect even the slightest impact of tourism on Nunavut's heritage.
It proved essential when two pieces of a deck plug from one of the Franklin Expedition ships was found on land last week, a discovery that lead to the historic find of the sunken wreck.
Some of the most cutting-edge devices deployed in the search were made by Canadian firms.
They include Arctic Explorer, an autonomous underwater vehicle, or robot sub, more than seven metres long. It was built by International Submarine Engineering Ltd. in Port Coquitlam, B.C. and carries state-of-the-art sonar.
Deployed from HMCS Kingston far north of where the Franklin wreck was discovered, and closer to the last reported position of HMS Erebus and HMS Terror, the Arctic Explorer scans the seabed for hours at a time and returns on its own to the mother ship.
Bringing the different devices together in extreme Arctic conditions, and proving they can pay off against long odds, is one of the spinoff benefits of finding the 19th century shipwreck.
"We always say, 'The right tool for the right job,'" said Scott Youngblut, hydrographer-in-charge at the Canadian Hydrographic Service. "We take all sorts of different technology and match it up to the particular conditions we're in."
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/09/09/hightech_sleuthing_key_to_hunt_for_ships_in_arctic.html
Dr. Milne, or Brooke as I know her, is good friends with my parents. When she first came to Winnipeg she stayed at their then-bed and breakfast, which evolved into her just renting a room from them. She got married at that same B&B, then when she left her husband she again stayed with them. Her daughter is just a year or two older than Timmy, and they've met and played a bunch of times.
Heck, my mom has went with Brooke to Nunvaut twice to look after the daughter while she does her anthropology work.
It doesn't mean anything, but it's neat anyways to be connected even in such a tenuous fashion.
QuoteIt doesn't mean anything, but it's neat anyways to be connected even in such a tenuous fashion.
Yes, I feel that way about so many of you here.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2014, 03:27:24 PM
QuoteIt doesn't mean anything, but it's neat anyways to be connected even in such a tenuous fashion.
Yes, I feel that way about so many of you here.
We're your support group.
Here's an underwater video of the wreck. Looks in amazingly good shape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3IuUspyhpo
Well no wonder it sank, it's all torn up.
Quote from: Malthus on September 14, 2014, 03:26:57 PM
Here's an underwater video of the wreck. Looks in amazingly good shape.
Of course it does. It's been frozen. To stretch those shipwreck dollars.
The ship has been identified as HMS Erebus.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/franklin-expedition-ship-found-in-arctic-id-d-as-hms-erebus-1.2784268
:cool:
Awesome :cool:
Manga chick version or it didn't happen.
And now, HMS Terror has been found yesterday 24-meters deep in Terror Bay, Nunavut, perfectly preserved. :thumbsup:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/hms-terror-found-1.3758400
QuoteA video shared with CBC News and produced by the Arctic Research Foundation appears to show images of the submerged HMS Terror — one of British explorer Sir John Franklin's two ships lost in the doomed 1845 Franklin Expedition — in a Nunavut bay.
On Monday morning, British newspaper the Guardian reported that the ship, which was abandoned in sea ice in 1848 during a failed attempt to sail through the Northwest Passage, was found "in pristine condition" in Nunavut's Terror Bay, north of where the wreck of HMS Erebus — the expedition's flagship — was found in 2014.
The crew of the Arctic Research Foundation's Martin Bergmann research vessel found the shipwreck, with all three masts standing and almost all hatches closed, on Sept. 3.
"Resting proud on 24 metres of water, we found HMS Terror — 203 years old, it is perfectly preserved in the frigid waters of the Northwest Passage," Arctic Research Foundation spokesman Adrian Schimnowski says in the video.
A statement issued Monday afternoon by Parks Canada said the organization "is excited about the reports of the discovery of the wreck of HMS Terror."
"The discovery of HMS Terror would be important for Canada, reflecting the ongoing and valuable role of Inuit traditional knowledge in the search and making a significant contribution to completing the Franklin story.
"Parks Canada is currently working with our partners to validate the details of the discovery."
John Geiger, the CEO of the Royal Canadian Geographical Society, congratulated the crew of the Martin Bergmann in a statement Monday afternoon.
"This is tremendously exciting news," said Geiger. "The nature of the find, as reported, underscores also the vital role of the Inuit then and now in the Franklin saga.
"After the discovery of HMS Erebus two years ago, the Terror remained the largest missing piece of the puzzle. Together, these discoveries have the potential to alter forever our understanding of the Franklin expedition's disastrous end."
As the story goes, HMS Terror was trapped in ice somewhere between King William Island and Victoria Island. According to the Guardian, the ship was found 92 kilometres south of there, a discovery that could have implications for historians' understanding of Franklin's expedition.
The doomed expedition, abandoned 168 years ago, resulted in the deaths of 129 men. The Erebus and the Terror lay locked in ice and undiscovered until a public-private group of searchers, led by Parks Canada, found the wreck of the Erebus two years ago.
Inuk crew member's story prompts find
The Guardian reported that the wreck was found after the Martin Bergmann's crew detoured to Terror Bay after hearing a story from an Inuk crew member, Gjoa Haven's Sammy Kogvik.
Kogvik told the crew that he noticed a large piece of wood sticking out of Terror Bay's sea ice which looked like a mast, while on a fishing trip about six years ago.
"I was on my way to the lake to go put nets out," Kogvik said in the Arctic Research Foundation's video. "And when we got in the bay ... as I was getting off the snowmobile, I looked up to my left, and there was something weird sticking out of the ocean on the ice.
"And I told my hunting buddy, 'what is that sticking out of the ice?' And he didn't know."
HMS Erebus was also located with the help of Inuit oral history. Historian Louis Kamookak helped researchers pinpoint the location of the wreck after passing down oral tradition saying that one of the ships was crushed in ice northwest of King William Island, while another — later confirmed to be the Erebus — drifted farther south, where it was ultimately found.
"Every time there's a finding, it's kind of a sad feeling," Kamookak said. "I think the mystery's more fun than the actual knowing."
The bell from the Erebus was one of the first items recovered after it was located, with a cannon, ceramic plates and personal effects among other items found.
Parks Canada had already agreed to seek permission from Nunavut's director of heritage before divers remove any HMS Terror artifacts.
One mystery still remains: the location of Franklin's grave. Kamookak said according to Inuit oral tradition, Franklin was buried in a vault somewhere on the north part of King William Island.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cbc.ca%2F1.3759069.1473717003%21%2FfileImage%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.png_gen%2Fderivatives%2Foriginal_620%2Fside-scan-image-hms-terror.png&hash=63432b5e3948c8e7d12ebe9f847d473c6a5fda69)
Those are two really lively ship names for such a dangerous expedition. Asking for it, imho.
Quote from: celedhring on September 13, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Those are two really lively ship names for such a dangerous expedition. Asking for it, imho.
Iirc both names have been reused, I think for monitors, if not for additional ships. :bowler:
What I want to know is this - they found the ship in Terror Bay - named after the ship.
So why didn't they start looking there years ago?!?
Actually it's named after the director.
Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
What I want to know is this - they found the ship in Terror Bay - named after the ship.
So why didn't they start looking there years ago?!?
I think they figured it would be too much of a coincidence for it to actually be there.
Quote from: mongers on September 13, 2016, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 13, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Those are two really lively ship names for such a dangerous expedition. Asking for it, imho.
Iirc both names have been reused, I think for monitors, if not for additional ships. :bowler:
AFAIK, the two monitors were the last RN ships the names were used for. Served in both World Wars.
Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
What I want to know is this - they found the ship in Terror Bay - named after the ship.
So why didn't they start looking there years ago?!?
I think they already knew back then that HMS Terror would be somewhere in that sea area, not too far from HMS Erebus. Hence the name.
I mean, Hudson Bay is named as such, even though Henry Hudson was left there in a canoe and never seen again.
Quote from: Drakken on September 13, 2016, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
What I want to know is this - they found the ship in Terror Bay - named after the ship.
So why didn't they start looking there years ago?!?
I think they already knew back then that HMS Terror would be somewhere in that sea area, not too far from HMS Erebus. Hence the name.
I mean, Hudson Bay is named as such, even though Henry Hudson was left there in a canoe and never seen again.
Erebus was only found two years ago. I think they named the bay long before that.
I mean yes, they knew the two ships were somewhere in the very general vicinity (couple hundred miles or so), but I looked it up on a map - Terror Bay is fairly small...
Probably because they found dead bodies on the island. They knew the ships were close, and the Franklin expedition gave some indication where they were before they were lost.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 13, 2016, 09:05:17 PM
Probably because they found dead bodies on the island. They knew the ships were close, and the Franklin expedition gave some indication where they were before they were lost.
I'm actually a bit of an arctic/Antarctic exploration fan. I've read several books, including on the Franklin expedition, and the searches to find it.
King William Island is actually fairly large. They really didn't know where the ships were (other than a very general idea) because they could have been carried off by the ice, and the expedition didn't leave much in the way of records (though some artifacts were found).
My post though was mostly a joke - it just sounds like a crazy co-incidence.
My understanding was they left a note to indicate where they were.
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Damn, I bet Tim's pissed about not posting this topic first. :(
I was going to post about it yesterday but I got distracted and forgot.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/12/hms-terror-wreck-found-arctic-nearly-170-years-northwest-passage-attempt
So both ships are in excellent condition? I wonder if they could be raised intact.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 14, 2016, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
Damn, I bet Tim's pissed about not posting this topic first. :(
I was going to post about it yesterday but I got distracted and forgot.
You snooze, you lose. :yeah:
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
Grumbler's your point man here.
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
Ships can be damaged or even capsized by encroaching ice. It's likely the portions of the hull were crushed by the ice and when the ice melted the ship simply sank.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 14, 2016, 09:01:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
Ships can be damaged or even capsized by encroaching ice. It's likely the portions of the hull were crushed by the ice and when the ice melted the ship simply sank.
I think you might be right.
I also wonder though, how much these ships required constant maintenance to keep floating anyway. Didn't they typically require periodic pumping because in general the hulls were not perfectly watertight anyway?
I could imagine that the ice could really inflict what would be relatively minor damage - splitting some seams - rather than crushing the hull in some visible fashion, that absent maintenance just results in the ship flooding and sinking over some few days or week.
I am wondering just because the article noted what pristine condition the ship was in...
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
- Rain&snow that melts would increase the weight of the ship forcing it down a little as it is never removed
- freeze/unfreeze and the ice pressued would slowly damage the ship increasing water leakage
It doesn't need to break like the Titanic to sink. All you need is some extra weight and over time, during the summer, as the ice melts, you'll find the ship going down and down and down until it completely sinks apparently intact.
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 09:13:00 AM
I also wonder though, how much these ships required constant maintenance to keep floating anyway. Didn't they typically require periodic pumping because in general the hulls were not perfectly watertight anyway?
I don't think they had pumps, but yes, they would need to remove the water from the ship, be it from small leakages or rain or melting snow.
Quote
I could imagine that the ice could really inflict what would be relatively minor damage - splitting some seams - rather than crushing the hull in some visible fashion, that absent maintenance just results in the ship flooding and sinking over some few days or week.
I am wondering just because the article noted what pristine condition the ship was in...
The article says that you could just pump out the water and it would float again. I don't know how much is fact and how much is pure hyperbole, but I suspect it would require relatively minor repairs. Something a crew of the time could have maybe done with onboard spare parts, had they been able to stay on the ship.
I don't how they would generate fire, in a safe way, onboard such wooden ships in the past. They must have known that going somewhere in the arctic would require heating.
Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
What I want to know is this - they found the ship in Terror Bay - named after the ship.
So why didn't they start looking there years ago?!?
Bizarre that it sunk in a bay with the same name. What are the odds? :hmm:
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 09:13:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 14, 2016, 09:01:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
If they were abandoned in the ice, I am kind of surprised they didn't get smashed up on shore when the ice melted and they were just drifting about.
What causes an abandoned ship to actually sink, anyway? Could the hull be crushed by the ice?
Ships can be damaged or even capsized by encroaching ice. It's likely the portions of the hull were crushed by the ice and when the ice melted the ship simply sank.
I think you might be right.
I also wonder though, how much these ships required constant maintenance to keep floating anyway. Didn't they typically require periodic pumping because in general the hulls were not perfectly watertight anyway?
I could imagine that the ice could really inflict what would be relatively minor damage - splitting some seams - rather than crushing the hull in some visible fashion, that absent maintenance just results in the ship flooding and sinking over some few days or week.
I am wondering just because the article noted what pristine condition the ship was in...
The photos of the Erberus show the whole front end disintegrating, so "pristine" probably doesn't mean the ship could have floated. Another possibility is that during the two years the ship was icebound, the ice pushed up underneath the ship causing it roll onto it's side. When the ice melted, it could have simply filled with water and sank. The crew abandoned both ships before they sank, so nobody knows.
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
Apparently this is an ongoing problem: From CNN today:
Polar bears trap scientists in remote Arctic
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/world/polar-bears-trap-scientists/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/world/polar-bears-trap-scientists/index.html)
Quote from: Berkut on September 14, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
Apparently this is an ongoing problem: From CNN today:
Polar bears trap scientists in remote Arctic
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/world/polar-bears-trap-scientists/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/world/polar-bears-trap-scientists/index.html)
So not so far fetched.
Yeah, all that arctic ice melting that is forcing polar bears from their natural hunting grounds out on the floes must be a real inconvenience.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Manproposesgoddisposes.jpg)
Man proposes God disposes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2016, 07:38:25 PM
Yeah, all that arctic ice melting that is forcing polar bears from their natural hunting grounds out on the floes must be a real inconvenience.
Polar bears have always been a menace to man in the Arctic. They have little to no fear of humans and will gladly hunt you for food.
Brizzlies and black bears on the other hand don't see us as food sources, and will only attack if startled or frightened.
Quote from: Barrister on September 14, 2016, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2016, 07:38:25 PM
Yeah, all that arctic ice melting that is forcing polar bears from their natural hunting grounds out on the floes must be a real inconvenience.
Polar bears have always been a menace to man in the Arctic. They have little to no fear of humans and will gladly hunt you for food.
Brizzlies and black bears on the other hand don't see us as food sources, and will only attack if startled or frightened.
black bears can be really dangerous in spring, when they just woke up and they're really hungry. But during summer, and even fall, nope, there's plenty of food, they have made their reserves, and they don't want to expand too much energy running after a prey.
Grizzlys can be very territorial from what I hear. If someone is in front of him, he will charge to remove the obstacle.
Quote from: Barrister on September 14, 2016, 10:28:33 PM
Polar bears have always been a menace to man in the Arctic. They have little to no fear of humans and will gladly hunt you for food.
Well guess what, Marlin Perkins: thanks to global warming and the shrinking of their hunting range, what polar bears that haven't drowned yet are even more of a menace to man. Asshole.
QuoteBrizzlies and black bears on the other hand don't see us as food sources, and will only attack if startled or frightened.
Their food sources and ability to reach the haven't disappeared with the ice, nor have their cub mortality rates in the first year of life dropped over 20% in the last 15 years due to drowning. Wake me when the Rockies start to melt. Asshole.
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
In the novel the book the boat is blown up, so the find kind of throws a spanner into that. It was a good novel for about two-thirds of the length. At some point, the author forgot what he was doing and starts going off on strange tangents. For instance, we suddenly cut to three sisters who make knocking sounds with their knees. The characters are real people but have no relation to what's going on the in rest of the book.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
In the novel the book the boat is blown up, so the find kind of throws a spanner into that. It was a good novel for about two-thirds of the length. At some point, the author forgot what he was doing and starts going off on strange tangents. For instance, we suddenly cut to three sisters who make knocking sounds with their knees. The characters are real people but have no relation to what's going on the in rest of the book.
The last chapter is really weird.
Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:22:31 PM
black bears can be really dangerous in spring, when they just woke up and they're really hungry. But during summer, and even fall, nope, there's plenty of food, they have made their reserves, and they don't want to expand too much energy running after a prey.
But black bears are so small. Can they really kill you? Perhaps dangerous to children.
Though granted black bears in Texas might be really small compared to black bears further north.
Quote from: Valmy on September 15, 2016, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:22:31 PM
black bears can be really dangerous in spring, when they just woke up and they're really hungry. But during summer, and even fall, nope, there's plenty of food, they have made their reserves, and they don't want to expand too much energy running after a prey.
But black bears are so small. Can they really kill you? Perhaps dangerous to children.
Though granted black bears in Texas might be really small compared to black bears further north.
Black bears can certainly kill people, but attacks on people by them are very rare. They are more of a nuisance than a danger.
We had a bear break into our cabin's screen porch (busting the screen) while we were away. It was, for some reason, attracted to a pressurized can of mosquito repellant. It bit into this. That must have been a ... highly unpleasant experience for it. :lol:
I've run across Black bears out walking several times, always with the same result: I back off, and so does the bear.
Grizzlies are far more dangerous, and Polar Bears more dangerous again.
The two times I have seen a black bear, both in parks in West Texas, they have quickly run off. Very shy. But granted they were almost extinct in Texas at one point so probably wise of them.
Quote from: Valmy on September 15, 2016, 09:23:14 AM
The two times I have seen a black bear, both in parks in West Texas, they have quickly run off. Very shy. But granted they were almost extinct in Texas at one point so probably wise of them.
Heh. An outfit that ran its operations from the same docking area our family launches its boat from in Northern Quebec ran a "bear hunting" business for tourists, twenty or so years ago. The details were pretty grim.
Apparently, what they did (to assure each tourist bagged a bear) was set up regular feeding stations at various locations in the wilderness, near to blinds that they built. At this locations, they would put a bear's banquet - all the foods most attractive to bears. They in effect trained the bears to go to these locations for their hand-outs at regular times.
Then, when the tourists came, they would slot them in - put each tourist in a blind a bit before the bear's scheduled feeding. The bear comes to its hand-out place to see what the nice humans have left for it, and BOOM! :lol:
All the fun and adventure of, say, shooting fish in a barrel. ;) Not that the tourists necessarily knew all the details though. Or maybe they did, I dunno.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
In the novel the book the boat is blown up, so the find kind of throws a spanner into that. It was a good novel for about two-thirds of the length. At some point, the author forgot what he was doing and starts going off on strange tangents. For instance, we suddenly cut to three sisters who make knocking sounds with their knees. The characters are real people but have no relation to what's going on the in rest of the book.
The Fox sisters!
They were tied into the story somewhat. One of the sisters was romantically involved with (tries to remember, gives up, googles) Elisha Kane, an arctic explorer who went out on two ewpeditions to find Franklin.
I read a book a few years ago called Race to the Polar Sea about Kane, and it had extensive material about the Fox sisters.
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2016, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
In the novel the book the boat is blown up, so the find kind of throws a spanner into that. It was a good novel for about two-thirds of the length. At some point, the author forgot what he was doing and starts going off on strange tangents. For instance, we suddenly cut to three sisters who make knocking sounds with their knees. The characters are real people but have no relation to what's going on the in rest of the book.
The Fox sisters!
They were tied into the story somewhat. One of the sisters was romantically involved with (tries to remember, gives up, googles) Elisha Kane, an arctic explorer who went out on two ewpeditions to find Franklin.
I read a book a few years ago called Race to the Polar Sea about Kane, and it had extensive material about the Fox sisters.
BB, I know you're interested in the Franklin expedition. I do recommend this Simmons book. It's fiction that takes on a supernatural bent, but some of the historical stuff is really good. And it is a gripping thriller.
Quote from: Josephus on September 15, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2016, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on September 14, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
By the by, AMC has finally greenlit The Terror.
Based on the book by Dan Simmons, the 10-part series is a story about the crew of The Terror and um, the other ship, and how they were stalked by a giant polar bear.
No really, the book is better than it sounds.
In the novel the book the boat is blown up, so the find kind of throws a spanner into that. It was a good novel for about two-thirds of the length. At some point, the author forgot what he was doing and starts going off on strange tangents. For instance, we suddenly cut to three sisters who make knocking sounds with their knees. The characters are real people but have no relation to what's going on the in rest of the book.
The Fox sisters!
They were tied into the story somewhat. One of the sisters was romantically involved with (tries to remember, gives up, googles) Elisha Kane, an arctic explorer who went out on two ewpeditions to find Franklin.
I read a book a few years ago called Race to the Polar Sea about Kane, and it had extensive material about the Fox sisters.
BB, I know you're interested in the Franklin expedition. I do recommend this Simmons book. It's fiction that takes on a supernatural bent, but some of the historical stuff is really good. And it is a gripping thriller.
I'll keep an eye out. Probably would not have picked it up on my own. Thanks!
Random arctic explorer tid-bit:
Ran across this - basically a number of inuit groups are upset at a company called Ungava Gin for using a bunch of Inuit symbols and imagery in its ads. Ungava Gin is named for the Ungava Penninsula in Quebec, where many Inuit live.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/15/ungava-gin-inuit-cultural-appropriation_n_12017002.html
But this made me laugh knowing some arctic history. Another major penninsula in the Arctic is the Boothia Penninsula. It was discovered by explorer John Ross, who was sponsored by a man named Felix Booth. Booth made his fortune as, you guessed it, a gin distiller, and sold a brand named Booth's Gin. :lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Booth
Quote from: Valmy on September 15, 2016, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:22:31 PM
black bears can be really dangerous in spring, when they just woke up and they're really hungry. But during summer, and even fall, nope, there's plenty of food, they have made their reserves, and they don't want to expand too much energy running after a prey.
But black bears are so small. Can they really kill you? Perhaps dangerous to children.
Though granted black bears in Texas might be really small compared to black bears further north.
Yes they can kill you. There was a jogger killed near Quebec city some years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America)
edit: biathlon trainer, not jogger.