I'm sure the NSA will get back to him right away with that. :D
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140615/12155027589/irs-claims-two-years-emails-were-destroyed-computer-crash-congressman-asks-nsa-to-supply-missing-email-metadata.shtml
Tons of links embedded in the article at the source
QuoteIRS Claims Two Years Of Emails Were Destroyed In A 'Computer Crash;' Congressman Asks The NSA To Supply 'Missing' Email Metadata
From the hilarious-except-for-the-tax-dollars-funding-the-debacle dept
The IRS is currently being investigated by Congress for some possibly politically-motivated "attention" it directed towards "Tea Party" and other conservative groups that operated as tax-exempt entities. Along the way, IRS official Lois Lerner, who was the first to publicly disclose the inappropriate targeting, was also one of the first government officials to plead the Fifth (twice) in government hearings.
The Congressional investigation demanded copies of Lois Lerner's emails from the IRS. Some were turned over to the House Ways and Means Committee, but not everything it sought. Now, the IRS is telling the committee that it's not going to get everything it asked for.
The IRS has told Congress that it lost more than two years' worth of emails involving former IRS official Lois Lerner, due to a computer crash.
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) on Friday said it was "unacceptable" that he was just learning of this problem now, after a lengthy investigation into Lerner's involvement in the IRS targeting scandal.
Camp points out that the IRS withheld these emails for over a year before suddenly "discovering" they were unavailable. The IRS says it can find everything Lerner sent to and received from other IRS employees but nothing containing correspondence with those outside the agency.
Obviously, this convenient "computer crash" has generated a lot of skepticism. For one thing, a "computer crash" doesn't really have the power to destroy electronic communications. Email is always almost stored somewhere else other than the local user's computer. And even if the IRS meant a "server crash" instead of a "computer crash," any decent server system contains multiple levels of redundancy.
The Blaze sought input from Norman Cillo, a former Microsoft project manager, who presented six reasons why he believes the IRS is lying about its inability to recover these emails. Number one on the list seems to be the most applicable.
I believe the government uses Microsoft Exchange for their email servers. They have built-in exchange mail database redundancy. So, unless they did not follow Microsoft's recommendations they are telling a falsehood.
The IRS's own policies on email state that its employees use both Microsoft Outlook and Exchange, which means it should have some form of backup available.
Secure Messaging enrollment is an automated process for all LAN accounts with an Exchange mailbox in IRS. You can find the instructions for configuring the Outlook client to use the certificates at the Secure Enterprise Messaging Systems (SEMS) web site: http://documentation.sems.enterprise.irs.gov/.
According to Cillo, the only other explanation for the IRS's inability to recover these emails is that the agency is "totally mismanaged and has the worst IT department ever." Unfortunately, the government seems to have a lot of mismanaged and terrible IT departments, so this may be closer to the truth than anyone would really like to admit. Perhaps the general ineptitude of large government agencies is behind the Treasury Department's policy that all email sent to or from IRS employees be "archived" via hard copy printouts.
If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly. The Treasury Department's current email policy requires emails and attachments that meet the definition of a federal record be added to the organization's files by printing them (including the essential transmission data) and filing them with related paper records. If transmission and receipt data are not printed by the email system, annotate the paper copy.
There's more information here, citing the IRS's own internal guidelines on tape backups, etc., that suggest further levels of redundancy, as well as the commissioner of the IRS testifying that the agency stores its emails on servers.
Critics believe the IRS has simply "vanished" the crucial emails in order to cut Lerner adrift and make it appear she acted alone. Any evidence that would tie outside government agencies (including the administration itself) into this situation has been deemed unrecoverable. Supposedly, there should be paper copies of the missing emails, but no one in Congress has requested these and the IRS certainly isn't offering to look.
But one Congressman thinks he has a solution to the missing email dilemma. Steve Stockman (last seen here threatening to bring a defamation lawsuit against someone who uttered true facts about his criminal past) knows some people who have a whole lot of email data just laying around.
"I have asked NSA Director Rogers to send me all metadata his agency has collected on Lois Lerner's email accounts for the period which the House sought records," said Stockman. "The metadata will establish who Lerner contacted and when, which helps investigators determine the extent of illegal activity by the IRS."
Yeah, let me know how that works out for you, Steve. The NSA can't even confirm or deny its monthly water usage at its Utah data site, much less that it has metadata pertaining to Americans' communications.
[Sidebar: I do really love the fact that this sort of thing is becoming increasingly common -- the use of the NSA as the backup-of-last-resort for phone/email/internet communications data. If anyone claims it can't find email X or phone record Y, someone's going to say, "Hey, I'll bet the NSA has a copy!" Hilarious. The NSA will never again be allowed to pretend it doesn't harvest data on American citizens.]
The whole letter, which begins with some light ass-kissing of new NSA director Michael Rogers ("thank you for your 33 years of, and continued service to, our country...") and closes with a bit of grandstanding, surreally asking "the Agency" to send all relevant metadata on the missing Lerner emails to "[email protected]." All in all, probably one of the most incongruous demands the NSA has ever received, a letter which conjures up the image of a late-night meeting in an underground parking garage, with sunglassed NSA liaisons handing over a briefcase full of metadata to a 19-year-old intern dressed in his dad's suit.
It's pretty hard to shake the impression that this is a coverup. As always, the specter of pure ineptitude lurks in the background, as it often does when large bureaucracies tangle with technology. But until the IRS presents further evidence detailing how exactly these emails went missing, it's safe to assume there's been an active effort made to cover up government impropriety.
Lol! What a joke. :D Such hubris, big balls. At the least this stuff is on servers which are backed up daily and sent to offsite storage, and whatever other safeguards they have in place.
I really, really need to get an in into NSA data analysis.
Quote from: Ideologue on June 18, 2014, 07:04:56 AM
I really, really need to get an in into NSA data analysis.
You need 5 years experience before they look at you application.
5 years experience doing what?
Oh, nevermind. Ha ha.
You ought to apply, just for shits and giggles.
Quote from: Ideologue on June 18, 2014, 07:04:56 AM
I really, really need to get an in into NSA data analysis.
What data do you need? :)
So the IRS retains records for less than 2 years?
Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2014, 08:05:51 AM
So the IRS retains records for less than 2 years?
But you need to keep your receipts for, what, 5? :D
I would've considered this total bullshit from the IRS, but from what I've seen here in Fedland and their records Management and retention programs, what gets kept and in what format, what gets destroyed when and how, doesn't surprise me at all.
My few months here have been a real eye-opener, on a whole number of levels. I may turn out to become a Small Gubmint advocate after all. :lol:
Quote from: KRonn on June 18, 2014, 06:52:05 AM
Lol! What a joke. :D Such hubris, big balls. At the least this stuff is on servers which are backed up daily and sent to offsite storage, and whatever other safeguards they have in place.
You're assuming IRS still has an operating budget to do that sort of thing anymore. They've had a tough budgetary road to hoe since 2000, you know.
This is basic IT handling, probably mandatory for every government agency. Certainly mandatory for any private company and IT auditors will slam them for doing otherwise. They're hiding the info and everyone else damn well knows it. Everyone should be scared to death that the most powerful agency in the government has these allegations against them and has been stonewalling attempts to get to the bottom of things.
Quote from: KRonn on June 18, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
This is basic IT handling, probably mandatory for every government agency.
You give the government way too much credit.
Not the first time. The Clinton and W. Bush administrations both "lost" tons of e-mail that were supposed to have been preserved and made available on demand.
Well clearly the solution is to cut the IRS budget even further. That'll fix the problem.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2014, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2014, 08:05:51 AM
So the IRS retains records for less than 2 years?
But you need to keep your receipts for, what, 5? :D
I would've considered this total bullshit from the IRS, but from what I've seen here in Fedland and their records Management and retention programs, what gets kept and in what format, what gets destroyed when and how, doesn't surprise me at all.
My few months here have been a real eye-opener, on a whole number of levels. I may turn out to become a Small Gubmint advocate after all. :lol:
These are emails though. I believe they are still there in digit land.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2014, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: KRonn on June 18, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
This is basic IT handling, probably mandatory for every government agency.
You give the government way too much credit.
and too much integrity.
Dean Lerner > Lois Lerner
Lowest Learner :contract:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2014, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: KRonn on June 18, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
This is basic IT handling, probably mandatory for every government agency.
You give the government way too much credit.
Heh, probably so. I still assume at least a basic proficiency. But if we can't even expect that then why are we always giving more power and authority to our governmental agencies? Lol. :D
Power and authority are not a problem when the attendant resources occompany them. That's why the US Navy can fulfill its mission, and the IRS not so much.
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2014, 07:19:18 AM
You ought to apply, just for shits and giggles.
Well, a lot of it is done by contractors. A former PM of mine deals with government data (probably NSA) via the contractor she now works for.
I'm actually guessing the need for human operators on their English language domestic surveillance program is low, otherwise doc reviewers would be disappearing into the intelligence abyss constantly, given the near-identical overlap of the two skillsets. (Term used loosely.) Only in the heyday of NYC doc review, and probably not even then absent foreign language, $100/hr skills, would anyone in their right mind turn down a fedgov job (with its sweet, sweet public service loan forgiveness), or even a steady job for a private contractor.
Anyway, I'd be killed on the security clearance, and you think it's funny. Don't think I didn't notice that. It's not very nice.
I LOL'd on the inside :Embarrass:
KRonn is right, btw. It is mandatory handling and governed by NIST. Including auditing. They are lying about losing them. Only explanation. Even if the people currently in charge of it don't know anything the chances the data exists nowhere are miniscule.
I'm not surprised. They can't even lie properly.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2014, 08:48:54 AM
My few months here have been a real eye-opener, on a whole number of levels. I may turn out to become a Small Gubmint advocate after all. :lol:
Come to the dark side. We have Keurigs brewing welfare recipients' tears, purchased with the Q3 profits. :hug:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 18, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2014, 08:48:54 AM
My few months here have been a real eye-opener, on a whole number of levels. I may turn out to become a Small Gubmint advocate after all. :lol:
Come to the dark side. We have Keurigs brewing welfare recipients' tears, purchased with the Q3 profits. :hug:
Meh, I've suffered enough for the sake of profits, thank you.
Anyway, I'm downloading the federal records management guidelines, I'll try to copy some stuff up on Languish. Lots of specifics regarding retention procedures for a variety of correspndence categories. The "expert" in the article is a bit off-base on certain items, like inter-office email correspondence. Seems most can be deleted immediately, and paper copies after 2 years.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 18, 2014, 07:05:55 PM
KRonn is right, btw. It is mandatory handling and governed by NIST. Including auditing. They are lying about losing them. Only explanation. Even if the people currently in charge of it don't know anything the chances the data exists nowhere are miniscule.
+1. I don't believe them.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2014, 12:49:04 PM
Anyway, I'm downloading the federal records management guidelines, I'll try to copy some stuff up on Languish.
Please do. I may need something to induce my mid-afternoon siesta.
All I'll say is I've seen a wide, wide gap between the government and Fortune 200 IT capabilities, competentcies best practices and hardware. The first word that comes to mind is: Yikes.
Everything and everybody worth anything must be over at NSA and DOD.
Quote from: derspiess on June 20, 2014, 12:57:00 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2014, 12:49:04 PM
Anyway, I'm downloading the federal records management guidelines, I'll try to copy some stuff up on Languish.
Please do. I may need something to induce my mid-afternoon siesta.
Heh, not going to be able to do it until I get home. Not after Snowden. :ph34r:
They should have at least tried to be a little more convincing. Anyone in government who lies like this doesn't desrve thier jobs.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2014, 01:01:56 PM
Everything and everybody worth anything must be over at NSA and DOD.
No, they aren't. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fuser3303%2Fimageroot%2F2014%2F06%2F20140624_IRS.jpg&hash=1999a75fb55f210e4b979d52fea9c744e7908203)
The IRS commissioner dude was taking a beating. Kind of feel bad for him.
Heard on interview with him on NPR. He sounded very intelligent and capable. Has made a career of salvaging broken agencies.
Quote from: derspiess on June 24, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
The IRS commissioner dude was taking a beating. Kind of feel bad for him.
He did just fine.
I do feel bad for Darryl Issa, though; he must be the most frustrated Republican Messiah in the country. Wants so bad to sit at the grown-up's table, but is stuck with the kids at the folding card table in the kitchen.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 24, 2014, 01:09:47 PM
He did just fine.
He did about as well as anyone could do in that position, but he still took a beating.
QuoteI do feel bad for Darryl Issa, though; he must be the most frustrated Republican Messiah in the country. Wants so bad to sit at the grown-up's table, but is stuck with the kids at the folding card table in the kitchen.
Ooh! Do Trey Gowdy next :)
Darryl Issa is the wealthiest man in Congress.
But he would trade it all in to be Ted Cruz, bless his little heart.
Everyone wants to Cruise with Cruz.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 24, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
Darryl Issa is the wealthiest man in Congress.
I guess crime does pay. You go from boosting cars and arson to the wealthiest man in Congress.
What, nobody remembers Darryl Issa, IT Support Level 3 Supervisor, and the 22 million emails "lost" by the Bush Administration between 2003 and 2005?
QuoteDuring a House Oversight Committee hearing last month on the preservation of White House records, an indignant Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), a frequent critic of Chairman Henry Waxman's investigations, did his best to play down the extent of the Bush administration's now well-documented email archiving problems. Defending the White House's decision to switch from the Lotus Notes-based archiving system used by the Clinton administration, Issa compared the software to "using wooden wagon wheels" and Sony Betamax tapes. To observers of the missing emails controversy, Issa's comments seemed little more than an attempt to deflect blame from the White House for replacing a working system for archiving presidential records with an ad hoc substitute. But to IT professionals who use Lotus at their companies, Issa's remarks seemed controversial, if not downright slanderous. Now, according to an executive at IBM, the software's manufacturer, the California congressman has apologized for his characterization of Lotus and offered to correct the congressional record.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2014, 01:37:26 PM
I guess crime does pay. You go from boosting cars and arson to the wealthiest man in Congress.
I have a strong suspicion you're making up shit.
The new head of the IRS is a lapdog for the powers to be. He may have been a decent guy/manager before coming to IRS but he's now a willing obstructionist.
I was shocked and amazed at the chutzpah this guy showed in defying Congress, kind of like passive aggressive. The emails aren't lost, they can't be lost. Everything about losing the hard drives of half a dozen users, Lehrner and other higher ups, is BS. The emails aren't only on the user's computers!! IRS even had a private company keeping all the emails, backups, whatever. This really calls for a special prosecutor, even Dems are saying so. Once they start grilling the IT staff and others this whole house of cards concocted by the IRS and their handlers will come crashing down.
I fail to understand how anyone can be supportive of the IRS in this debacle. Some Democrats had the balls to apologize to the IRS chief! Ryan correctly said that the IRS should be apologizing to the people. This is beyond party politics, it's more like rogue agency stuff.
Hansmeister fired his profile, and assumed KRonnmeister's. Daayum.
Meh, that was actually a good post by KRonn. Most of them go like "These bad things are horrible. Why don't people do good things instead of bad things?"
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 24, 2014, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2014, 01:37:26 PM
I guess crime does pay. You go from boosting cars and arson to the wealthiest man in Congress.
I have a strong suspicion you're making up shit.
Check your radar. I would have thought you had heard about his indictment for grand theft auto or that he was suspected of committing arson and insurance fraud.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2014, 05:16:59 PM
that he was suspected of committing arson and insurance fraud.
Wow, what a scumbag.
Who knows what the IRS is capable of? When people get into a siege mentality, things can get a little weird.
I blame the monsters that have taken over the Republican Party for any wrongdoing in the IRS.
Quote from: DGuller on June 24, 2014, 05:16:06 PM
Meh, that was actually a good post by KRonn. Most of them go like "These bad things are horrible. Why don't people do good things instead of bad things?"
That's a good question. I believe Plato's answer was that they think those bad things were actually good.
Quote from: Neil on June 24, 2014, 05:32:25 PM
Who knows what the IRS is capable of? When people get into a siege mentality, things can get a little weird.
I blame the monsters that have taken over the Republican Party for any wrongdoing in the IRS.
What? Whos getting into my mentality?
Lois Lerner sounds like she might be a good fit for Languish.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/lerner_email_a.pdf
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 24, 2014, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2014, 01:37:26 PM
I guess crime does pay. You go from boosting cars and arson to the wealthiest man in Congress.
I have a strong suspicion you're making up shit.
Make-up shits are the best.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 18, 2014, 05:53:46 AM
I'm sure the NSA will get back to him right away with that. :D
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140615/12155027589/irs-claims-two-years-emails-were-destroyed-computer-crash-congressman-asks-nsa-to-supply-missing-email-metadata.shtml
Tons of links embedded in the article at the source
Quote[Sidebar: I do really love the fact that this sort of thing is becoming increasingly common -- the use of the NSA as the backup-of-last-resort for phone/email/internet communications data. If anyone claims it can't find email X or phone record Y, someone's going to say, "Hey, I'll bet the NSA has a copy!" Hilarious. The NSA will never again be allowed to pretend it doesn't harvest data on American citizens.]
why would anyone take this article seriously after, especially, this comment?
i'm inclined to believe the IRS because I don't have paranoia about large US government agencies.
and, looking around, sure enough the emails might be recoverable after all.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/hunt-for-missing-irs-emails-resumes-1406152329
Quote from: derspiess on July 30, 2014, 01:09:00 PM
Lois Lerner sounds like she might be a good fit for Languish.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/lerner_email_a.pdf
Yikes. This is the kind of divisive language that divides us as a country, and prevents us from solving our problems.