My CdMesque thread of the week. :bowler:
https://www.thedodo.com/recently-spotted-103-year-old--547381307.html
QuoteRecently Spotted 103-Year-Old Orca Is Bad News For SeaWorld -- Here's Why
By Jenny Kutner
13 May 2014
SeaWorld could be in trouble because of "Granny," the world's oldest known living orca. The 103-year-old whale (also known as J2) was recently spotted off Canada's western coast with her pod -- her children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. But while the Granny sighting is thrilling for us, it's problematic for SeaWorld.
First of all, SeaWorld has claimed that "no one knows for sure how long killer whales live," when simple figures or even living and thriving examples -- like Granny -- can give us a pretty good idea. The Whale and Dolphin Conservation project estimates that whales born in captivity only live to 4.5 years old, on average; many of SeaWorld's orcas die before they reach their 20s. Perhaps because of their reduced lifespans, the whales are forced to breed continuously and at perilously young ages, which could also diminish their overall health.
Another key aspect of an orca's life -- which is missing in captivity -- is the ability to swim up to 100 miles per day. When Granny was spotted earlier this week, she had just finished an 800-mile trek from northern California along with her pod. According to animal welfare advocates, long-distance swimming is integral to orcas' psychological health and well-being; SeaWorld, however, has gone on record claiming that orcas do not need to swim hundreds of miles regularly, ostensibly to defend the parks' cruel practice of keeping massive, powerful orcas confined to cramped tanks.
Since Granny was first spotted (as early as the 1930s), she's believed to have mothered two calves, who in turn have had calves of their own. (One of her grandchildren, Canuck, reportedly died at the age of 4 after being captured and held at SeaWorld). As her pod has grown, Granny has kept up with them -- without being separated through human intervention -- and traveled astonishing distances with her pod annually. Orcas at SeaWorld are routinely separated from their pods, which has been known to cause huge mental and emotional strain and can prevent calves from developing normally.
Granny doesn't simply represent an impressive feat of nature; she embodies what's wrong with SeaWorld by being a living example of what's right in the wild. While it's true that most wild orcas don't live as long as Granny has, their lifespans are still dramatically longer than those of SeaWorld's whales (the NOAA estimates that wild female orcas, like Granny, live an average of 50 to 60 years). Their lives are also filled with much more swimming, exploration, variety and bonding with family -- in other words, their lives are likely filled with much more joy.
Sea World is the ultimate evil in the universe.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 14, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
My CdMesque thread of the week. :bowler:
Go out in the street and get hit by an orca.
Quote from: Valmy on May 14, 2014, 09:47:37 PM
Sea World is the ultimate evil in the universe.
They really need to be shut down.
Quote from: PRC on May 14, 2014, 11:04:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 14, 2014, 09:47:37 PM
Sea World is the ultimate evil in the universe.
They really need to be shut down.
:rolleyes:
All orcas should be freed from captivity. The fact that Ideologue hates them with the passion of a Japanese fisherman would be enough, let alone the cruelty of circus abuse.
garbon should be in a cage with somebody with a chair and a whip, but he's probably done that before for money anyway.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:11:31 PM
All orcas should be freed from captivity. The fact that Ideologue hates them with the passion of a Japanese fisherman would be enough, let alone the cruelty of circus abuse.
I could see saying that but that's quite different from saying SeaWorld should be boarded up.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:12:25 PM
garbon should be in a cage with somebody with a chair and a whip, but he's probably done that before for money anyway.
Never ceases to amaze how some people will get so riled up for animals while displaying disregard for people.
garbon, Seaworld is evil. They should be boarded up.
Convincing. But hey if you think the best way to get people to care about marine life is to make sure they never see any marine life - carry on.
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:16:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:12:25 PM
garbon should be in a cage with somebody with a chair and a whip, but he's probably done that before for money anyway.
Never ceases to amaze how some people will get so riled up for animals while displaying disregard for people.
Never had an orca cut me off on the beltway.
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:19:56 PM
Convincing. But hey if you think the best way to get people to care about marine life is to make sure they never see any marine life - carry on.
The best way for people to care about marine life may be to visit a marine entertainment park as you suggest... but that ain't Seaworld.
Seaworld has shown consistent disregard for the animals in their care and for the people in their employ. Putting the animals in their care and their employees at risk doesn't help marine conservation. It hurts it.
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:19:56 PM
Convincing. But hey if you think the best way to get people to care about marine life is to make sure they never see any marine life - carry on.
1.5 million people visited the National Aquarium in Baltimore last year; my niece's Girl Scout troop had an overnight camping and learning event there last month.
None of the animals were required to perform, nor were they intelligent enough to suffer from it.
There are plenty of options out there to learn about marine life without engaging in acts of cruelty to do it.
Whale watching!
Quote from: Jaron on May 14, 2014, 11:36:18 PM
Whale watching!
Whale watching in the wild is a great time and a legitimate tourism activity. Huge business in Victoria, BC and Washington State and a lot of fun... or were you talking about your love life?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:11:31 PM
All orcas should be freed from captivity. The fact that Ideologue hates them with the passion of a Japanese fisherman would be enough, let alone the cruelty of circus abuse.
I do not, I find their existence morally problematic--not unlike humans. I think humans should be free or die too.
Quote from: PRC on May 14, 2014, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Jaron on May 14, 2014, 11:36:18 PM
Whale watching!
Whale watching in the wild is a great time and a legitimate tourism activity. Huge business in Victoria, BC and Washington State and a lot of fun... or were you talking about your love life?
:hmm:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:31:33 PM
1.5 million people visited the National Aquarium in Baltimore last year; my niece's Girl Scout troop had an overnight camping and learning event there last month.
None of the animals were required to perform, nor were they intelligent enough to suffer from it.
There are plenty of options out there to learn about marine life without engaging in acts of cruelty to do it.
I concur 100%
I visited the Baltimore Aquarium while I was over there and I thought it was a great place. As CdM said, you can educate children without circus shows. To be frank, I find the whole "we need animals to do cute tricks for kids to love them" notion a bit short-sighted.
The Barcelona Zoo have announced that they will discontinue dolphin shows in 2017. Heck, we even had an orca in captivity until a decade ago (in woefully inadequate facilities for a beast her size), so I'm happy to see we're slowly getting with the times.
SeaWorld has been under a lot of criticism for years, and a documentary released last year called Blackfish about orcas in captivity has exacerbated this. Pixar even changed the ending for its upcoming Finding Nemo sequel after John Lasseter saw it, and lots of bands that were going to perform at their parks cancelled their scheduled concerts. California and NY are currently considering a ban on keeping orcas in captivity.
And people say The Act of Killing was the year's best documentary. Or did Indonesia stop being a corrupt hellhole yet?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:31:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:19:56 PM
Convincing. But hey if you think the best way to get people to care about marine life is to make sure they never see any marine life - carry on.
1.5 million people visited the National Aquarium in Baltimore last year; my niece's Girl Scout troop had an overnight camping and learning event there last month.
None of the animals were required to perform, nor were they intelligent enough to suffer from it.
There are plenty of options out there to learn about marine life without engaging in acts of cruelty to do it.
Really I recall watching a seal show at the Boston Aquarium.
But then that was sort of my point. There are other parts of SeaWorld than the animal shows.
Quote from: celedhring on May 15, 2014, 02:08:49 AM
I visited the Baltimore Aquarium while I was over there and I thought it was a great place. As CdM said, you can educate children without circus shows. To be frank, I find the whole "we need animals to do cute tricks for kids to love them" notion a bit short-sighted.
Well do have fun demolishing that strawman. :)
Finally, an animal thread where Seedy is right instead of defending the ultimate evil of Felines.
Quote from: The Larch on May 15, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
SeaWorld has been under a lot of criticism for years, and a documentary released last year called Blackfish about orcas in captivity has exacerbated this. Pixar even changed the ending for its upcoming Finding Nemo sequel after John Lasseter saw it, and lots of bands that were going to perform at their parks cancelled their scheduled concerts. California and NY are currently considering a ban on keeping orcas in captivity.
That's a pretty good documentary.
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2014, 06:41:20 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 15, 2014, 02:08:49 AM
I visited the Baltimore Aquarium while I was over there and I thought it was a great place. As CdM said, you can educate children without circus shows. To be frank, I find the whole "we need animals to do cute tricks for kids to love them" notion a bit short-sighted.
Well do have fun demolishing that strawman. :)
What strawman? I wasn't particularly arguing against you, just agreeing on what CdM said. There's really no need to engage in animal cruelty to put up a marine institution that will attract visitors and educate.
The Barcelona Aquarium beats the Barcelona Zoo in attendance and it doesn't have all the dog and pony shows.
Has anyone ever stated that you can't educate children unless you have circus shows?
I think it's pretty obvious that they are used to drive visitors, particularly families.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:31:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:19:56 PM
Convincing. But hey if you think the best way to get people to care about marine life is to make sure they never see any marine life - carry on.
1.5 million people visited the National Aquarium in Baltimore last year; my niece's Girl Scout troop had an overnight camping and learning event there last month.
None of the animals were required to perform, nor were they intelligent enough to suffer from it.
There are plenty of options out there to learn about marine life without engaging in acts of cruelty to do it.
Those seals just love it when you throw pennies in their water. They eat it up!
Watching aquatic mammals do tricks doesn't do much for me, but if the kids like it, I'm fer it.
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2014, 08:08:11 AM
Has anyone ever stated that you can't educate children unless you have circus shows?
Yes, of course they have. So long as you define "educate" in this case to mean "educate about the ocean and its denizens." Sea World constantly harps on how the live animal shows are needed to teach students to appreciate the animals in question. Go to the Seaworld site itself and check the videos under "mission."
That doesn't mean that the article from thedodo.com (the only website I know of named after its readers) isn't bullshit. But that's a different matter, and the fact that some idiot says bullshit on the internet doesn't really harm anyone. Seaworld
does harm intelligent creatures for profit.
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2014, 09:10:59 AM
Yes, of course they have. So long as you define "educate" in this case to mean "educate about the ocean and its denizens." Sea World constantly harps on how the live animal shows are needed to teach students to appreciate the animals in question. Go to the Seaworld site itself and check the videos under "mission."
Do you have a link? I just went to their site and my was it poorly arranged. I couldn't find their mission bit. -_-
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2014, 09:10:59 AM
That doesn't mean that the article from thedodo.com (the only website I know of named after its readers) isn't bullshit. But that's a different matter, and the fact that some idiot says bullshit on the internet doesn't really harm anyone. Seaworld does harm intelligent creatures for profit.
Maybe my stance wasn't clear but I think asking for an end to orca captivity doesn't have to match with closing SeaWorld down. There's a lot more to it than just that if my memory serves.
Quote from: garbon on May 15, 2014, 09:25:18 AM
Do you have a link? I just went to their site and my was it poorly arranged. I couldn't find their mission bit. -_-
The most recent one I saw was linked from a story about their response to
Blackfish. I can't find it using their own web site (funny how they keep sending you to the separate research foundation, isn't it?), but it is mostly incorporated into this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFve2b58njc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFve2b58njc)
QuoteMaybe my stance wasn't clear but I think asking for an end to orca captivity doesn't have to match with closing SeaWorld down. There's a lot more to it than just that if my memory serves.
Agreed. I'm not sure Seaworld would remain an amusement park without the "smart animal" shows, but it could continue in some form.
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2014, 10:11:24 AM
The most recent one I saw was linked from a story about their response to Blackfish. I can't find it using their own web site (funny how they keep sending you to the separate research foundation, isn't it?), but it is mostly incorporated into this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFve2b58njc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFve2b58njc)
Ah okay yeah they seem to be quite focused their on how emotionally and rewarding their animal shows are. Definitely some PR bullshit as I don't think I got either of those benefits. Though I recall as a child that sitting there baking in the stands, watching tricks, was not my fave. I liked the manta ray tanks and the various aquarium style exhibits.
Quote from: grumbler on May 15, 2014, 10:11:24 AM
Agreed. I'm not sure Seaworld would remain an amusement park without the "smart animal" shows, but it could continue in some form.
I mean they would still have seal/sea lion shows, those manta ray tanks, the various aquariums and roller coaster/rides? Certainly ticket price would have to drop but seems like there would still be room to exist. Though maybe they would need to initiate themselves as their reputation would be really tarnished if they only stopped with the orcas and dolphins because of government intervention.
I'm sad I never got to see the talking seal they used to have at the New England Aquarium. IIRC he was kind of an asshole and used to tell people "Get outta heah!" in a heavy Boston accent all the time. :)
Quote from: Caliga on May 15, 2014, 12:15:45 PM
I'm sad I never got to see the talking seal they used to have at the New England Aquarium. IIRC he was kind of an asshole and used to tell people "Get outta heah!" in a heavy Boston accent all the time. :)
That is awesome. I always thought the voice that talks to you when you ride the subway or the train should be in a thick accent of the region you are in. I want the train in Austin to have a drawl damnit.
The recorded voices at Midway and Cincinnati-NKY airports definitely have local accents.
"Doors closing. Please hang ahhhhhn."
Too old, too fat.
As this looks to have been the most recent thread with Sea World in it.
They have now announced they will be phasing out orcas and orca shows (no more breeding and current orcas will remain in captivity till death due to them not knowing how to survive in wild).
I hope all youse guys is happy.
Everyone watches some damn documentary on NetFlix and suddenly they're experts on whale welfare.
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2016, 05:22:25 PM
As this looks to have been the most recent thread with Sea World in it.
They have now announced they will be phasing out orcas and orca shows (no more breeding and current orcas will remain in captivity till death due to them not knowing how to survive in wild).
Good.
I'm with team CdM-Timmy-grumbler on this one.
Shutting them down? I don't recall grumbler nor I calling for Sea world to shut down.
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2016, 07:26:30 PM
Shutting them down? I don't recall grumbler nor I calling for Sea world to shut down.
You weren't mentioned as being part of the team :(
Nor did the post I replied to mention shutting down Sea World, but rather the endng of the Orca program.
Shut them all down and sell the carcasses for delicious seafood Pâté.
I copied and pasted (Pâtéd?) the last word for MB.
You could have just typed liverwurst.
Quote from: PDH on March 17, 2016, 08:46:35 PM
Shut them all down and sell the carcasses for delicious seafood Pâté.
I copied and pasted (Pâtéd?) the last word for MB.
I prefer my orca meat to be wild caught. It is much leaner.
Quote from: alfred russel on March 17, 2016, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on March 17, 2016, 08:46:35 PM
Shut them all down and sell the carcasses for delicious seafood Pâté.
I copied and pasted (Pâtéd?) the last word for MB.
I prefer my orca meat to be wild caught. It is much leaner.
I take no side in the aquaculture wars.
Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2016, 08:44:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 17, 2016, 07:26:30 PM
Shutting them down? I don't recall grumbler nor I calling for Sea world to shut down.
You weren't mentioned as being part of the team :(
Nor did the post I replied to mention shutting down Sea World, but rather the endng of the Orca program.
I don't think I disagreed with that either...
It's not all about you, you know. :mellow:
I brought the thread back and was discarded. :angry:
Quote from: garbon on May 14, 2014, 11:16:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2014, 11:12:25 PM
garbon should be in a cage with somebody with a chair and a whip, but he's probably done that before for money anyway.
Never ceases to amaze how some people will get so riled up for animals while displaying disregard for people.
He's projecting his ultimate fantasy unto you, how is this disregarding people? :hmm:
Good news. Perhaps my boycott of Sea World will end the next time I'm in that part of Florida. :)