http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/04/harvard_students_protest_call_for_fossil_fuel_divestment
Students blockading the university President's office in effort to force the endowment fund to divest from oil company stocks.
Exactly how selling stock in fossil fuel companies is supposed to alter the worldwide energy mix is not explained. Perhaps it is too complicated to put on a placard.
The Divestment Campaign website also doesn't explain however. Instead it advances two contradictory purposes: (1) to "rebrand" the fossil fuel companies as "social pariahs" and (2) to protect the endowment funds from inevitable losses that will result from investing funds in such miscreants. :D
Well, if they're successful on point 1, wouldn't point 2 follow?
Does the President of the University direct the investments of the endowment fund?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:29:29 AM
Does the President of the University direct the investments of the endowment fund?
Don't distract with us with such petty details.
Quote from: DGuller on May 02, 2014, 11:22:18 AM
Well, if they're successful on point 1, wouldn't point 2 follow?
Doubtful. Does the stock price of a company depend much on its status as social pariah among elite students?
Quote from: Zanza on May 02, 2014, 11:38:08 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 02, 2014, 11:22:18 AM
Well, if they're successful on point 1, wouldn't point 2 follow?
Doubtful. Does the stock price of a company depend much on its status as social pariah among elite students?
It might. But the article doesnt tell us what the elite students think.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2014, 11:21:08 AM
http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/04/harvard_students_protest_call_for_fossil_fuel_divestment
Students blockading the university President's office in effort to force the endowment fund to divest from oil company stocks.
Exactly how selling stock in fossil fuel companies is supposed to alter the worldwide energy mix is not explained. Perhaps it is too complicated to put on a placard.
The Divestment Campaign website also doesn't explain however. Instead it advances two contradictory purposes: (1) to "rebrand" the fossil fuel companies as "social pariahs" and (2) to protect the endowment funds from inevitable losses that will result from investing funds in such miscreants. :D
They're a couple of decades early, I think.
Although renewables grow and fast, so do coal, gas and oil. The notion may be good, but the execution is in the silly column.
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
They should invest in more green jobs.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
Where would you have an endowment fund invest its funds so that it can give out endowments?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2014, 11:46:00 AM
They should invest in more green jobs.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hookingupsmart.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FGreen-Light.jpg&hash=b7acc23a125d93de3190b1d7bb1ae7dcb27c7412)
Only so many people are needed to run these. :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
Where would you have an endowment fund invest its funds so that it can give out endowments?
I wouldnt let them invest it in anything.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
University endowment funds are some of the biggest players out there.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
I wouldnt let them invest it in anything.
Where are they supposed to get their funding from? Well besides raise tuition but we are already getting to absurd levels there.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
Where would you have an endowment fund invest its funds so that it can give out endowments?
I wouldnt let them invest it in anything.
Why not? A $1M scholarship endowment, invested responsibly, can help students for generations. If it can't be invested, it'll be deleted in just a few years. And besides, what's the alternative? Have the university president bury the money in a jar in his back yard?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2014, 11:21:08 AM
The Divestment Campaign website also doesn't explain however. Instead it advances two contradictory purposes: (1) to "rebrand" the fossil fuel companies as "social pariahs" and (2) to protect the endowment funds from inevitable losses that will result from investing funds in such miscreants. :D
How are they going to "rebrand" massive companies that provide essential services and employ thousands of people 'social pariahs'? Like when you go to the gas station you have to sneak out to the neighbors won't notice and petroleum engineers will be booted from their neighborhoods by horrified HOAs?
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
Where would you have an endowment fund invest its funds so that it can give out endowments?
I wouldnt let them invest it in anything.
So you wouldnt allow universities to have endowment funds? You realize that the capital of those funds would be depleted right?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Universities can invest on the stock market?
:bleeding:
Where would you have an endowment fund invest its funds so that it can give out endowments?
I wouldnt let them invest it in anything.
So you wouldnt allow universities to have endowment funds? You realize that the capital of those funds would be depleted right?
Yes.
What made you think that I thought that the current University systems(in the US or Canada or Quebec) worked? Buut I didn't know that US Universities had giant endowment fund like YI mentioned.
Will only fossil fuel exploration and extraction companies be social pariahs or any company or individual who does business in fossil fuel related products or industries?
It doesn't sound like these Harvard kids have thought this through.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
What made you think that I thought that the current University systems(in the US or Canada or Quebec) worked?
Well they might have problems but I was not aware those problems included their endowment funds.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
What made you think that I thought that the current University systems(in the US or Canada or Quebec) worked? Buut I didn't know that US Universities had giant endowment fund like YI mentioned.
I am not sure what one has to do with the other. fyi most universities in Canada also have endowment funds although nothing approaching the fund Havard has. Where do you think all the bursuries, scholarships, reduction of tuition and other financial assistance Universities give directly to students comes from?
I didn't know.
Our system is so different from yours. I'm Tyr here, coming to terms with a different world that I barely understand.
but I am not in favor of Education Instutions investing money even if they have very good reason to do it & even better reason on what they do with the money. It's a blanket statement, I am not in favor of non-governmental investment. You should know this about me.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
I didn't know.
Our system is so different from yours. I'm Tyr here, coming to terms with a different world that I barely understand.
but I am not in favor of Education Instutions investing money even if they have very good reason to do it & even better reason on what they do with the money. It's a blanket statement, I am not in favor of non-governmental investment. You should know this about me.
:bleeding:
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
I didn't know.
Our system is so different from yours. I'm Tyr here, coming to terms with a different world that I barely understand.
Then it will surprise you to learn that McGill has one of the largest endowment funds in the country. :)
Here is the link if you want to find out more. https://www.mcgill.ca/investments/treasury
Man, this Neil level fuel to the cause here.
When UQUAM invest in anything it's a fiasco.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
Man, this Neil level fuel to the cause here.
? Grammar deficit.
I presume all those bright young things will refuse to use passenger jets or cars, once they've graduated and secured nice jobs in corporations and Wall Street. :cool:
I my last savings on "are".
Quote from: mongers on May 02, 2014, 12:57:35 PM
I presume all those bright young things will refuse to use passenger jets or cars, once they've graduated and secured nice jobs in corporations and Wall Street. :cool:
They are going to quit using plastics in their daily lives to protest the evils of fossil fuels and their derivatives.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2014, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2014, 12:56:05 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
Man, this Neil level fuel to the cause here.
? Grammar deficit.
Verbs are expensive these days.
We should start a triangular trade with somewhere which has a verb shortfall, but surplus of vowels. Something like this:
I prune my posts and ship the excess verbs to there, they transfer their extra vowels to The Ukraine and they in turn emigrate some of their Russsian over to Languish. :cool:
Hmm. That's a good idea. Most of the Slavic areas have a very clear vowel deficit, while for instance the Dutch have too many.
By this new metric, Tamas might be a very rich man if he is permitted to trade Hungarian vowels. But would there be a market?
I will not buy his vowels, they are scratched.
Grey Fox's intelligence as assessed by me dropped massively after I read this thread.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 01:16:32 PM
By this new metric, Tamas might be a very rich man if he is permitted to trade Hungarian vowels. But would there be a market?
Well, if we're clever about our logistics we can have them cleaned up and assembled in, say, Puerto Rico and then market them as American vowels.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on May 02, 2014, 01:50:59 PM
Grey Fox's intelligence as assessed by me dropped massively after I read this thread.
:mad: You know damn well I right. Aren't you the one who fired his boss? That's powerfull proletariat, friend!
Hans fired his boss.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
I am not in favor of non-governmental investment. You should know this about me.
I knew you were to the left, but I didn't know you were in favor of the government owning all businesses. And even then, I still don't get your opposition to colleges and universities investing their endowments. After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
You mean government funded - not government run.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
You mean government funded - not government run.
Well UT is government run but not really government funded so much. We're funky like that.
Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2014, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
You mean government funded - not government run.
Well UT is government run but not really government funded so much. We're funky like that.
What do you mean by government run?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:06:53 PM
What do you mean by government run?
Well all of us who work here are considered government employees. The Board of Regents who oversee the University are appointed by the Governor, and the Legislature can dictate all sorts of specific policies (and I mean to us specifically not just passing laws that apply to all Universities or something). All this despite the fact that tax money only supplies about 15% of the costs of operation.
Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2014, 03:10:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:06:53 PM
What do you mean by government run?
Well all of us who work here are considered government employees. The Board of Regents who oversee the University are appointed by the Governor, and the Legislature can dictate all sorts of specific policies (and I mean to us specifically not just passing laws that apply to all Universities or something). All this despite the fact that tax money only supplies about 15% of the costs of operation.
Wow, That is odd. What happens with concepts like academic freedom?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
You mean government funded - not government run.
Uhm, no, I mean government run. While there are lots of variations, AFAIK in most cases the groups or individuals who administer state colleges and universities are in some way responsible to some part of the state government, granted that they are usually not directly a part of the state government in the way that, say, the Department of Motor Vehicles or the like is.
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
You mean government funded - not government run.
Uhm, no, I mean government run. While there are lots of variations, AFAIK in most cases the groups or individuals who administer state colleges and universities are in some way responsible to some part of the state government, granted that they are usually not directly a part of the state government in the way that, say, the Department of Motor Vehicles or the like is.
Being appointed to a position by government doesnt mean the government runs it.
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
I am not in favor of non-governmental investment. You should know this about me.
I knew you were to the left, but I didn't know you were in favor of the government owning all businesses. And even then, I still don't get your opposition to colleges and universities investing their endowments. After, all most of them are government-run (though obviously not all of them, and certainly not Harvard).
There is a scale to this, I think the 500 limit set by the SEC is a good start.
What 500 limit are you talking about?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2014, 04:00:20 PM
What 500 limit are you talking about?
No more than 500 things at once.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 03:11:33 PM
Wow, That is odd. What happens with concepts like academic freedom?
They definitely have a multitude of sticks to hit us with if a department just started hiring academics the politicians found particularly unsavory, or did something like create the Che Guevarian Chair for the study of Popular Liberation. Theoretically, of course, their interests are administrative and making use of University research capabilities for state purposes.
Well that and influencing the hire of football coaches. The main issue at UT Austin the voters and taxpayers really care about.
Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2014, 04:08:24 PM
Well that and influencing the hire of football coaches. The main issue at UT Austin the voters and taxpayers really care about.
:lol:
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2014, 11:29:29 AM
Does the President of the University direct the investments of the endowment fund?
No.
It's the president's job to endow the endowment fund.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
Yes.
What made you think that I thought that the current University systems(in the US or Canada or Quebec) worked? Buut I didn't know that US Universities had giant endowment fund like YI mentioned.
:bleeding: Not sure where to begin here, but I'll give it a shot.
If Harvard stopped investing endowment funds, it would stop receiving endowment gifts. The donors who establish said funds do it because they want to create something to benefit the university community in perpetuity. The massive size of Harvard's endowment is one of the reasons that it's widely considered one of the best universities in the world, as it allows the university to attract and retain expensive academics, goes a long way toward defraying the cost of education for its students, and offsets the monumental annual costs of running the university.
Furthermore, the reality is that even if Harvard wanted to stop investing its endowment, it could not. Endowments are established with specific terms that always include directives to the university to invest the endowment fund. It would take a court order to overturn/amend such terms, and I doubt a judge would overturn a donor's wishes unless they were utterly obsolete (and even in such cases the university typically would prefer to just let the endowment accumulate and not spend the interest).
I understand that you're one of the posters who thinks that capitalism = evil, but again without Harvard's gigantic endowment it would not be the place that it is today. It didn't derive its reputation from rainbow-powered hippie love.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
It's the president's job to endow the endowment fund.
Yes.
Endowment funds tend to hire professional money managers, typically guys that have managed large mutual funds as that's basically how an endowment is managed. Or a hedge fund, for that matter.
At CC, in the United States, public colleges are basically the same as our primary schools in that they are overseen by the State. But just like primary schools there are layers of separation.
With primary schools the State is divvied up into districts. The State funds a portion of the district's budget from general revenue (from income, excise etc taxes.) The State will typically have a "governing body" for the State school system, usually called the Board of Education. The Board hires a Superintendent who is basically the chief administrator the state Department of Education, and who oversees its day to day activities. At the State level this typically includes monitoring of the various districts, setting policies, things of that nature.
Each district tends to work the same way, but in miniature. There are school boards for each district (almost always directly elected by citizens resident in the district), and the district school boards hire a district superintendent who is responsible for the day to day running of the district. He hires/fires all the school principals and various other administrative tasks. The local district school boards typically have levy authority, which means they can put levies on the local ballot to raise funds.
With colleges, the States handle them similarly but the organization is slightly different. For one, almost always public colleges are not subordinate at all to the State Board of Education, instead each major college will have its own board with its membership typically appointed by the State Governor. They hire a college/university President, who runs the school and is typically someone with a lot of experience as a college administrator, usually having been a professor and a dean of some sort for years or had previously been a high ranking university official or a university President at another school.
The college/university board functions similarly to a board of directors for a company, they typically have to vote on important decisions, but day to day they don't have a direct hand in running the school other than that they can fire the President if he/she acts in a way the board finds objectionable.
Most of the actual educators in this scheme have some degree of tenure, this is true of grade school teachers up to college professors. So they are usually well protected from dismissal which limits to some control political control of education. Also at the K-12 level the teachers in most States are unionized which also limits the control of the State (but it just limits it, the State has a lot of power in education.)
The only types of colleges that I believe are typically under the direct purview of a State Board of Education (instead of its own board) would be community colleges / junior colleges, which I think are often ran by the State Department of Ed or similar.
Quote from: Caliga on May 02, 2014, 06:38:13 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
Yes.
What made you think that I thought that the current University systems(in the US or Canada or Quebec) worked? Buut I didn't know that US Universities had giant endowment fund like YI mentioned.
:bleeding: Not sure where to begin here, but I'll give it a shot.
If Harvard stopped investing endowment funds, it would stop receiving endowment gifts. The donors who establish said funds do it because they want to create something to benefit the university community in perpetuity. The massive size of Harvard's endowment is one of the reasons that it's widely considered one of the best universities in the world, as it allows the university to attract and retain expensive academics, goes a long way toward defraying the cost of education for its students, and offsets the monumental annual costs of running the university.
Furthermore, the reality is that even if Harvard wanted to stop investing its endowment, it could not. Endowments are established with specific terms that always include directives to the university to invest the endowment fund. It would take a court order to overturn/amend such terms, and I doubt a judge would overturn a donor's wishes unless they were utterly obsolete (and even in such cases the university typically would prefer to just let the endowment accumulate and not spend the interest).
I understand that you're one of the posters who thinks that capitalism = evil, but again without Harvard's gigantic endowment it would not be the place that it is today. It didn't derive its reputation from rainbow-powered hippie love.
Grey Fox doesn't think universities work, so he'd be in favor of the schools having to return the endowments and then shutting down. I believe his next step would be to have the government simply declare that everyone is educated, thus saving all the money currently spent on education and, at the same time, leveling the playing field, since everyone would have identical educational qualifications.
I agree with him to the extent that I think the money spent educating him was wasted.
[not really, to any of this, but.. languish]
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on May 02, 2014, 06:42:02 PM
Endowment funds tend to hire professional money managers, typically guys that have managed large mutual funds as that's basically how an endowment is managed. Or a hedge fund, for that matter.
It's no different at Harvard. Harvard's endowment is managed by HMC (Harvard Management Company), which is all Wall street guys. Every so often the same type of idiots who are whining about this issue will bitch about how much money the HMC money managers make.
I like grumbler's idea.