Ok, so I am torn between two candidates.
One is the candidate of the social-democrats. He is the only non-PiS, non-PO candidate likely to enter the European Parliament from Poland. Of those, he is closest to me, in terms of views. However, obviously, it's not a perfect match. His mandate is not certain (he may actually lose to another candidate from PO) and thus my vote for him would count.
The other is a gay rights activist, running from a Progressive, Democrat and Green coalition. Neither him nor anyone else from his party is likely to enter from Warsaw this year, but it is a very respectable party (for people interested in Polish politics, people like Balcerowicz, Geremek, Mazowiecki or Kuron are/were from that party). He is the only openly gay candidate running in Warsaw. Obviously, if I vote for him, the vote will be lost in election terms, but voting for if noone votes for him, not even gays, it will likely make even leftist parties less likely to consider having gay candidates on their lists.
So I am in a conundrum here. Suggestions?
EP:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.venushairhouston.com%2Fanimallovers%2Fanimal-pics%2Fbunny-yawn.jpg&hash=28f57affa8ec25eb99887b6726886f4b110b68e9)
You should vote for the gay candidate. After all, gender politics is what really interests you (based on your posting habits here ;)).
I just did my civic duty and voted for the FDP.
Vote with your feet.
Vote Tactically, vote for the reactionary peasant catholic party. Their gross incompetence once in power will pave the way for the new liberal agenda. It worked with "W" in america. :contract:
Vote for the most inflammatory, inbred hick on the ballot.
I don't give a fuck who you vote for.
Redux.
Hungarian results:
governing socialists: 4 seats
main opposition party: 14 seats
nazis: 3 seats
conservatives, sporting Lajos Bokros the hero of laisezz faire economy: 1 seat
Result in Germany. This could foreshadow the result of the federal election later in the year.
Conservatives: 38%
Social Democrats: 20.9%
Greens: 12%
Liberals: 10.9%
Socialists: 7.7%
Surprising how bad the Left and NPAC (?) have done in Germany and France. Or was that expected?
How did the FDP do so well, I thought they weren't expected to do that well?
Polish results. 7 liberals gone. Is this the Martinus effect? :mellow:
Austria:
ÖVP 29,7 (Conservatives)
SPÖ 23,8 (Social Democrats)
Martin 17,9 (pro-transparency/anti-corruption platform)
FPÖ 13,1 (blue Nazis)
Grüne 9,5 (Greens)
BZÖ 4,7 (Orange Nazis)
Liste Martin is led by Dr. Hans-Peter Martin. He's not present in national parliament, but he has a strong platform for more controlling of the EU institutions in order to fight corruption.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 03:27:07 PM
How did the FDP do so well, I thought they weren't expected to do that well?
As far as I know, they always get 10-11%. :unsure:
Quote from: Habbaku on June 07, 2009, 03:30:27 PM
As far as I know, they always get 10-11%. :unsure:
Oh I thought they'd got a lot worse at the last election. I mean in seats the FDP and CDU-CSU won over 50%.
Edit: Interestingly the Greens who got 41 seats in 2004 have already reached 40 seats.
Couple of interesting results in local areas. In one constituency in the South-West Labour's just got under 10% and are fifth behind Tories, UKIP, Lib-Dems and Greens :bleeding:
Apparently the BNP have come fifth in Burnley which was meant to be an area where they were strong :w00t:
Good Lord. Apparently the Tories may have come first in Wales. The last the popular vote in Wales wasn't won by Labour was either 1918 or 1931 :bleeding:
Spain:
PP 42,25% - 23 seats (right)
PSOE 38,50% 21 seats (socialists)
CEU 5,04% 2 seats (nationalist right)
IU 3,74% 2 seats (communists)
UPyD 2,88% 1 seat (new party, antinationalist)
Edp-V 2,53% 1 seat (nationalist left)
In a few words, the socialists have lost 5 points, but PP managed to get only 1 of them, in spite of rising unemployment. UPyD, a new, antinationalist party (its main point is central guvernment should reclaim a portion of the powers devolved to the regions) and quite ambiguous in all other fields, that refuses even to be defined as leftist or rightist, seems to be the biggest winner.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
Polish results. 7 liberals gone. Is this the Martinus effect? :mellow:
Who are you calling "liberals"?
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
Polish results. 7 liberals gone. Is this the Martinus effect? :mellow:
Who are you calling "liberals"?
[/quote
Whichever party's in the Alliance for Liberals and Democracy for Europe? Don't know who they are in Poland, I'll look them up.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 03:25:21 PM
Surprising how bad the Left and NPAC (?) have done in Germany and France. Or was that expected?
The Left Party in Germany doesn't benefit at all from the crisis - which is surprising in a way I guess. They also have fierce inner-party struggles between different wings.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 03:27:07 PM
How did the FDP do so well, I thought they weren't expected to do that well?
They regularly poll 10+ in the federal election surveys. No idea what there predicted number for this election was.
Quote from: Habbaku on June 07, 2009, 03:30:27 PMAs far as I know, they always get 10-11%. :unsure:
They were pretty weak in the 1990s, e.g. didn't make it to the European Parliament at all in 1999. They have a bit of a renaissance in the last few years - probably thanks to the Grand Coalition between Conservatives and Social Democrats ruling Germany right now. A lot of disgruntled CDU voters looking for a more laissez-faire approach to economics probably.
Oh them. They are totally gone from Polish politics and got absorbed into socialdemocrats and the coalition I voted for. None of the Polish parties is now associated with ALDE.
Apparently it was the Democratic Left Alliance and Social Democracy in Poland. So reading round them it looks like they dissolved :mellow:
Here are the Polish results. Even though it's a center-right vote mostly, what's interesting is that most of the winners are pro-EU, unlike the situation in Western EU countries, it seems.
PO (EPP-ED, pro-EU) - 24 seats, 45% of votes
PiS (EUN, moderately anti-EU) - 16 seats, 29% of votes
SLD (PES, pro-EU) - 6 seats, 12% of votes
PSL (EPP-ED, pro-EU) - 4 seats, 8% of votes
Noone else got any seats.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:18:03 PM
Apparently it was the Democratic Left Alliance and Social Democracy in Poland. So reading round them it looks like they dissolved :mellow:
I think that's wrong. They are part of the European Socialists.
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:18:03 PM
Apparently it was the Democratic Left Alliance and Social Democracy in Poland. So reading round them it looks like they dissolved :mellow:
I think that's wrong. They are part of the European Socialists.
:blush: You're right. It's Freedom Union that were Poland's liberals.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:26:28 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:18:03 PM
Apparently it was the Democratic Left Alliance and Social Democracy in Poland. So reading round them it looks like they dissolved :mellow:
I think that's wrong. They are part of the European Socialists.
:blush: You're right. It's Freedom Union that were Poland's liberals.
Yeah, they have been gone for years. Most of their former members who stayed in politics joined the Green-Liberal-Social-democrat coalition I voted for. And they didn't get any seats. :(
But in the last elections they only got seats because they formed a coalition with SLD (the socialdemocrats). On their own, they never get many votes. It's fucking Poland. :(
The Hungarian result (attendance was about 36% BTW) is just about a landslide victory for the nazis.
This party of theirs, "Jobbik" (which is a play with words in Hungarian, it both means "better" and right-er, ie. more to the right than the main opposition party) is pretty new to the scene, they were non-existent prior to 2006, and they were not taken seriously until they formed this Hungarian Guard (our modern-day version of the SA, basically) of theirs.
The total number of votes they got, would be enough, counting with a 70% attendance, to grab a 7% result on parlaimentary elections. That means even if they fail to convince even one more people to go and vote on them next year (or rather this year, seeing the utter failure of the governing party), than what they have now, they have more than enough support to get into parlaiment.
Why is Hungary so fucked up? I mean Poland is not a paradise either, but at least the most right-wing party that won any seats is "PiS", which is of course full of Kaczynski-style failures, but they are definitely not nazis (the closest comparison would probably be the Spanish People's Party, but without a historical involvement in any right wing dictatorship).
The Tory party chairman's just said that the Tories won't form an alliance with 'extremist' group or 'anti-gay' parties :o
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
The Tory party chairman's just said that the Tories won't form an alliance with 'extremist' group or 'anti-gay' parties :o
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 04:42:56 PM
Why is Hungary so fucked up? I mean Poland is not a paradise either, but at least the most right-wing party that won any seats is "PiS", which is of course full of Kaczynski-style failures, but they are definitely not nazis (the closest comparison would probably be the Spanish People's Party, but without a historical involvement in any right wing dictatorship).
Well our economy, or at least state budget, is supposed to be in a much worse state than Poland's. The current welfare state will have to go, either by choice, or by collapse, and the only party which offers a simple "solution" for this (get rid of "foreign (read: jewish) influence" in economy, be forceful to solve the gypsy problem -> country shall rise) are the nazis.
Of course, they would strongly object to be called nazis, they are "radical nationalists". But they just can't mutter a sentence without putting some anti-semite comment in it. Like tonight their victory speech involved classy phrases as "we had to endure overwhelming odds like using palestinian slingers against Israeli helicopters" and "it has been shown that we shall not become a second Palestine, we shall not be a colony". :bleeding:
Their rhetoric is just sick and crazy and apparently there are even more people buying it than I thought so.
Anyway, I'm now a proud member of the respectable Languish club of people who vote for parties that get 1% of popular vote. ;)
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2009, 05:06:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2009, 04:42:56 PM
Why is Hungary so fucked up? I mean Poland is not a paradise either, but at least the most right-wing party that won any seats is "PiS", which is of course full of Kaczynski-style failures, but they are definitely not nazis (the closest comparison would probably be the Spanish People's Party, but without a historical involvement in any right wing dictatorship).
Well our economy, or at least state budget, is supposed to be in a much worse state than Poland's. The current welfare state will have to go, either by choice, or by collapse, and the only party which offers a simple "solution" for this (get rid of "foreign (read: jewish) influence" in economy, be forceful to solve the gypsy problem -> country shall rise) are the nazis.
Of course, they would strongly object to be called nazis, they are "radical nationalists". But they just can't mutter a sentence without putting some anti-semite comment in it. Like tonight their victory speech involved classy phrases as "we had to endure overwhelming odds like using palestinian slingers against Israeli helicopters" and "it has been shown that we shall not become a second Palestine, we shall not be a colony". :bleeding:
Their rhetoric is just sick and crazy and apparently there are even more people buying it than I thought so.
Whoa, that's pretty fucked up.
The only party that used that kind of rhetoric in Poland didn't go above 1% in the elections. PiS may be homophobic, as well as anti-Russian and anti-German (and accuses PO of being too pro-German) but bends over backwards not to be perceived as anti-semitic.
Anyway, it's gonna be fun to watch (in the train wreck sense) how Hungary is going to get out of its massive debt and deficit by actually REDUCING foreign investments.
The BNP have at least one MEP :( <_<
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 05:31:36 PM
The BNP have at least one MEP :( <_<
This makes Poland more civilized than the UK. :D
Poor Labour. Apparently they're coming fifth in the South-West region (where I am) behind Mebyon Kernow the Cornish nationalist party :lol:
Daniel Hannan won his seat again. :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
Poor Labour. Apparently they're coming fifth in the South-West region (where I am) behind Mebyon Kernow the Cornish nationalist party :lol:
:XD:
QuoteWho?
A twattish ex Tory MEP who's since become a hero in the US due to the youtube video of him questioning Gordon Brown.
The Tories have won Wales for the first time in 1918 and Labour are 1% from being pushed into third place by Plaid Cymru.
The Tories can now recruit Welsh Longbowmen.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 05:50:21 PM
QuoteWho?
A twattish ex Tory MEP who's since become a hero in the US due to the youtube video of him questioning Gordon Brown.
The Tories have won Wales for the first time in 1918 and Labour are 1% from being pushed into third place by Plaid Cymru.
Are there also Polka Dot Cymru?
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 07, 2009, 05:51:20 PM
The Tories can now recruit Welsh Longbowmen.
:lol:
Apparently the Tories haven't won Wales since the 19th century. 1918 it was the Liberals in charge :bleeding:
Weird night for Denmark. A yes to the royal succession change, I had hoped it wouldn't go through. And the nationalists got the best election with a candidate that most resembles something hitler jugend would be proud of.
Fun map showing elections winners by region in Poland:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbi.gazeta.pl%2Fim%2F3%2F6697%2Fz6697923X.jpg&hash=7e5303124cc92d09e8f847b924629ee232582213)
So pretty much the more backwards and rural the area, the better PiS result.
I'm happy for Sweden. The pirates have done well.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
The Tory party chairman's just said that the Tories won't form an alliance with 'extremist' group or 'anti-gay' parties :o
Shame.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 05:50:21 PM
QuoteWho?
A twattish ex Tory MEP who's since become a hero in the US due to the youtube video of him questioning Gordon Brown.
:unsure:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 06:46:22 PM
:unsure:
The video's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
It's seems pretty University Debating Society in style to me, but there you are. I think he's since appeared on 3-4 Fox shows, I think I got the line 'hero' from Glenn Beck, as well as a few others. The conservative blogs practically shat themselves with excitement over him.
Unfortunately I don't think he'll ever be terribly successful in this country because one of those US shows asked him what he thought of socialised healthcare. He said that the NHS was a 60 year long mistake. Which has no traction at all in this country.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
Poor Labour. Apparently they're coming fifth in the South-West region (where I am) behind Mebyon Kernow the Cornish nationalist party :lol:
Alas no. Way ahead of Mebyon Kernow :(
My Euro-Region:
Conservative 468,742 30.2% (-1.3%)
UK Independence Party 341,845 22.1% (-0.5%)
Liberal Democrats 266,253 17.2% (-1.2%)
Green Party 144,179 9.3% (+2.1%)
Labour 118,716 7.7% (-6.8%)
And the BNP rate is one of the lowest in the country and half the national average. South-West pride! :w00t:
Edit: Although Labour did come sixth behind Mebyon Kernow in Cornwall :o :w00t:
:lol: 'The Roman Party - Ave' got 5000 votes in the South-East
Lovely results. :)
Well, maybe not the BNP MEP. But everything else sounds great. :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 07:26:57 PM
:lol: 'The Roman Party - Ave' got 5000 votes in the South-East
The Italians have smuggled a legion in. 3 more + auxilia are on the way.
Bunch of skinheads standing in front of the stage in the North-West where the BNP are expected to win another seat <_< :(
Quote from: Tamas on June 07, 2009, 04:37:23 PM
The Hungarian result (attendance was about 36% BTW) is just about a landslide victory for the nazis.
This party of theirs, "Jobbik" (which is a play with words in Hungarian, it both means "better" and right-er, ie. more to the right than the main opposition party) is pretty new to the scene, they were non-existent prior to 2006, and they were not taken seriously until they formed this Hungarian Guard (our modern-day version of the SA, basically) of theirs.
The total number of votes they got, would be enough, counting with a 70% attendance, to grab a 7% result on parlaimentary elections. That means even if they fail to convince even one more people to go and vote on them next year (or rather this year, seeing the utter failure of the governing party), than what they have now, they have more than enough support to get into parlaiment.
Tamas is going to be sent to the showers. :(
Nick Griffin, a man who wants a 99% genetically white UK, is now an MEP :x :bleeding: :(
If UKIP had got 1200 more, or the Greens had got 5000 more then Griffin wouldn't be in <_<
Edit: They now have EU money to fund MEPs which they can use to pay staff which'll develop the party. I'm worried about what someone like Griffin will be able to do with a bit of money and legitimacy.
Hopefully with it will come media attention and I think he'll be voted out very shortly.
What's UKIP?
:punk: Congrats Euros
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:12:44 PM
What's UKIP?
UK Independence Party, an extreme anti-EU party.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:12:44 PM
What's UKIP?
United Kingdom Independence Party. They want out of the EU.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:12:44 PM
What's UKIP?
United Kingdom Independence Party. They want to leave the EU entirely.
Here's the votes for England and Wales:
QuoteConservative 4,012,600 28.6% (+1.2%)
UK Independence Party 2,440,438 17.4% (+0.5%)
Labour 2,151,907 15.3% (-7.0%)
Liberal Democrats 1,953,575 13.9% (-1.1%)
Green Party 1,223,303 8.7% (+2.5%)
British National Party 916,424 6.5% (+1.45%)
Scotland will announce tomorrow after the Western Isles count and Northern Ireland will start counting tomorrow. In Scotland Labour is, apparently, about 10% behind the SNP.
This is GREAT NEWS!!! FOR DAVID CAMERON!!!!!
Oh and Nick Griffin is now likely to be the leader of the neo-fascist group in the European Parliament. So the face of European fascism will be British :blush:
Why the hell would UKIP do that well? Can I assume its a pure protest vote?
Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 08:22:19 PM
Why the hell would UKIP do that well? Can I assume its a pure protest vote?
Not really. EU elections have a very low turrnout and generally in this election the Tories are more likely to vote and UKIP voters are similarly quite motivated. But there's an element of protest votes too, especially given the expenses scandal.
But about a third of the UK want to leave the EU according to the polls.
All the other parties are leaving the hall while Griffin's giving a speech.
Won't someone please tell me what UKIP is? :cry:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 08:21:24 PM
Oh and Nick Griffin is now likely to be the leader of the neo-fascist group in the European Parliament. So the face of European fascism will be British :blush:
Ick, a sad day, especially coming so soon after the D-Day anniversary.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
Won't someone please tell me what UKIP is? :cry:
Your Mum!
Seriously... three people have already told you on the top of this page!
Anyway, the Conservatives and UKIP were the big winners, Labour the big losers (hooray on all accounts!), and the BNP even managed to get a couple of seats in the north.
Apparently the Greens would've got more seats if the whole of the UK was treated as one region since their vote count was higher percentage wise than any other party, or something? I don't really care about them though.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
Won't someone please tell me what UKIP is? :cry:
:lol:
My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. :huh:
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 08, 2009, 12:39:00 AM
My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. :huh:
:thumbsup:
I wish Arkansas would follow Germany's example and
exterminate the Jews vote in Greens
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 08:18:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:12:44 PM
What's UKIP?
United Kingdom Independence Party. They want to leave the EU entirely.
Here's the votes for England and Wales:
QuoteConservative 4,012,600 28.6% (+1.2%)
UK Independence Party 2,440,438 17.4% (+0.5%)
Labour 2,151,907 15.3% (-7.0%)
Liberal Democrats 1,953,575 13.9% (-1.1%)
Green Party 1,223,303 8.7% (+2.5%)
British National Party 916,424 6.5% (+1.45%)
Scotland will announce tomorrow after the Western Isles count and Northern Ireland will start counting tomorrow. In Scotland Labour is, apparently, about 10% behind the SNP.
Wow that's horrible (I'm talking of UKIP and BNP result).
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
Won't someone please tell me what UKIP is? :cry:
Not unless you finally tell us where your nickname here comes from. :mad:
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 08, 2009, 12:39:00 AM
My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. :huh:
Nice. :D
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 07, 2009, 08:26:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2009, 08:22:19 PM
Why the hell would UKIP do that well? Can I assume its a pure protest vote?
Not really. EU elections have a very low turrnout and generally in this election the Tories are more likely to vote and UKIP voters are similarly quite motivated. But there's an element of protest votes too, especially given the expenses scandal.
But about a third of the UK want to leave the EU according to the polls.
All the other parties are leaving the hall while Griffin's giving a speech.
I'm curious - why do so many Brits want to leave the EU? I mean, on the face of it, Britain got a great deal on the membership. You guys get a good employment balance (3 millions Brits employed throughout the EU, mostly in highly-paid, highly-qualified position vs. cheap labour from the continent for low-paid jobs), great trade revenues and a significant political influence.
It seems to me Brits are forgetting they are not an empire anymore, but a US vassal state with economy that is probably most wrecked by recession of all EU states. Frankly, I'm disappointed with the UK election results - I thought I'd never live to see the day in which Poles are more optimistic and less likely to vote for extremists than Brits. :(
Austrians are also extremely Euro-Skeptic. EU is seen as source of all evil, a corrupt moloch that strives to control the member countries, siphoning their money into ridiculous projects, and generally being bad for Austria. Schengen is a tool of the mafia to import crime into the EU from shady countries like Hungary or Slovakia.
Which is ridiculous, considering how much Austria benefitted from the 2004 expansion; Austrian banks and companies expanded big time into the new member countries, creating jobs and income in Austria, too.
Quote from: Syt on June 08, 2009, 02:27:15 AM
Austrians are also extremely Euro-Skeptic. EU is seen as source of all evil, a corrupt moloch that strives to control the member countries, siphoning their money into ridiculous projects, and generally being bad for Austria. Schengen is a tool of the mafia to import crime into the EU from shady countries like Hungary or Slovakia.
Which is ridiculous, considering how much Austria benefitted from the 2004 expansion; Austrian banks and companies expanded big time into the new member countries, creating jobs and income in Austria, too.
Austria already had a shot at unifying Europe, and it also ended with Eastern European workers in Germany and Austria, so not exactly see how they can complain. :P
Quote from: Martinus on June 08, 2009, 02:10:51 AM
I'm curious - why do so many Brits want to leave the EU? I mean, on the face of it, Britain got a great deal on the membership. You guys get a good employment balance (3 millions Brits employed throughout the EU, mostly in highly-paid, highly-qualified position vs. cheap labour from the continent for low-paid jobs), great trade revenues and a significant political influence.
Well our mainstream right-wing party is anti-EU. There's a number of reasons for British anti-Europeanism, I'm not the person to ask because I think they're all irrational. But no-one ever really puts the positive argument (except the Lib Dems) so Europe is seen as CAP and corruption, an undemocratic mess that imposes laws on Britain and is trying to build a super-state. Here's some recent polling, by an admittedly biased group but also a very good pollster:
Quote* People are so annoyed by EU rules that 69% want the British Government to start breaking them and disobeying Brussels. Only 28% of people believe Britain should obey EU rules. A majority of Conservatives (78%), Labour supporters (65%), Liberal Democrats (59%) and Others (70%) support disobedience. The policy has overwhelming support across every social class and region of the UK.
* Furthermore, a strong majority believe Britain should refuse to pay any EU fines imposed for breaking those rules - by 60% to 30%. Again, Conservatives (62%), Labour (54%), Liberal Democrats (51%) and Others (69%) are all in support of refusing to pay the fines.
* A clear majority are also in favour of Britain unilaterally taking back powers from Brussels if the EU or the other member states refused to give us permission to do so - by 57% to 37%. While Conservatives (63%), Lib Dems (51%) and Others (73%) all think that unilateral action is justified, only Labour's supporters believe we should abide by an EU decision to refuse us the right to renegotiate our relationship - and then only by 49% to 45%.
* On the Lisbon Treaty, voters are similarly resolute. 75% of people believe that any decision to give more powers to the EU must always be put to a referendum, while only 23% believe such decisions should be taken by MPs. Support for referenda is in the majority across all parties: Conservative (81%), Labour (69%), Liberal Democrat (68%), Other (80%). In a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the Treaty would be rejected by a majority of 62% to 28%. Despite Labour and Liberal Democrat official policy being in favour of the Treaty, their supporters would also be voting against it - by a margin of 50% to 42% in the case of Liberal Democrats and 46% to 43% amongst Labour voters.
* Public opposition to the Euro is found to be the strongest since 1995, and the recession has made people more opposed to giving up Sterling. In a referendum, the Euro would be resoundingly rejected by 75% to 23%. Even supporters of the Liberal Democrats, the only party among the main three to openly support joining the Euro, would vote to keep the Pound by 58% to 40%. When asked what impact the recession has had on their views on the Euro, 29% said that it had made them more opposed to joining whilst 14% said it had made them more in favour.
* As well as boosting opposition to the Euro, the financial crisis and recession have led the public to conclude that Britain needs a fundamentally different relationship with the EU, including control of our own trade and economic policy. Only 28% of the public believe that Britain would be better off in the economic crisis as a fully integrated EU member with the Euro and the Lisbon Treaty. By contrast, 67% believe the economic crisis demonstrates the need for Britain to take back control of trade and economic policies.
QuoteIt seems to me Brits are forgetting they are not an empire anymore, but a US vassal state with economy that is probably most wrecked by recession of all EU states. Frankly, I'm disappointed with the UK election results - I thought I'd never live to see the day in which Poles are more optimistic and less likely to vote for extremists than Brits. :(
Alas UKIP aren't that extreme anymore, their view on Europe is just to the right of the Tories. The Tories goal, with this new group, is to create an 'official opposition' to the EU within the European Parliament.
As to the BNP their vote didn't increase by much, though it is incredibly disappointing. What really happened, especially in the North-West was the Labour vote collapsed :(
Though I think the publicity they'll now get will kill them off. I just listened to an interview with Nick Griffin and he accused the BBC of being obsessed with race because there's a black Friar Tuck in the current BBC version of Robin Hood. God knows what he thinks of the Kevin Costner version. Robin's got a black and Muslim friend :o :bleeding:
Also Brits don't view the EU elections as being important. They are seen as basically irrelevant and very few people vote. So they're more likely to vote fringe in EU elections than other ones. For example in the council election results a couple of days ago the BNP only got three councillors and a tiny share of the vote because people think councils have some power. They see the European Parliament as a place to dump protest votes.
I wonder how all those people view a possible future of Britain outside the EU. What incentive would the EU have to give a leaving Britain a good deal? They would still have to obey all the rules and would probably still have to pay - just like Norway or Switzerland.
Quote from: Martinus on June 08, 2009, 01:31:44 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 08, 2009, 12:39:00 AM
My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. :huh:
Nice. :D
Dark Greens FTL
Quote from: Tamas on June 08, 2009, 11:11:27 AMDark Greens FTL
The Greens here are tending toward Light Greens as far as I can tell. You'll find some Dark Greens, but usually it's the Light Greens who really call the shots in the party.
Dumb North Amerikaner question.
:huh: I thought Europe banned Nazis? what's with all the odd coloured Orange & Blue Nazis? Oh no here comes Himmler is his Neon Orange SS uniform... Put on your sunglasses. :p
Nazis = right wing populists (at least here in Austria), making anti-foreigner (well, anti-Islam, recently) sentiments their platform and usually not really too hard on former nazi deeds/perps etc. Then again the "normal" conservatives still venerate Dollfuß as one of the party greats.
During the recent elections the blue populists (Haider's former party before he split off with the orange populaists, because the blue ones became too radical for his tastes) had a row with the churches because of their slogan "Abendland in Christenhand" (Occident in Christans' Hands), because so far there has been ethical code of leaving (Christian) religion politically neutral or at least to not use it in election campaigns.
The Freedom Party also fields the Third Speaker of Parliament, Martin Graf. During the EU election campaign he called Ariel Muzicant, head of the Israelite community in Vienna, "Sponsor/Instigator of anti-fascist left wing terrorism". The Jews were not really amused and likened Graf to Goebbels. The leftist parties tried to have Graf removed from the board of speakers of parliament, but this failed because the Conservatives blocked it.
The reasons the Freedom Party is so successful in Austria are easy to spot. Unlike the other major parties (mostly Social Democrats and Conservatives) they speak a simple language everyone understands. And they target concrete fears: unemployment, Islamists, foreigners, crime done by foreigners/Islamists etc.