:cry:
https://news.vice.com/articles/at-least-22-veterans-kill-themselves-every-day-and-no-one-gives-a-shit?trk_source=homepage-in-the-news
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bjxw-yYIUAEUwXw.jpg)
QuoteBy Alice Speri
April 2, 2014 | 3:25 am
That's 1,892 former soldiers who have killed themselves since the beginning of 2014, according the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America organization (IAVA). But even that is a conservative number, some say, as there is no centralized system to track veteran suicides.
A recent poll found that more than half of post-9/11 veterans know at least one colleague who attempted or managed to kill themselves. For many, the list of friends lost to suicide is much longer.
Mental health is one of the greatest challenges facing returning soldiers, but a deadly combination of indifference, stigma, red tape, and government dysfunction are to blame for the sobering numbers. Citing Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) statistics, the IAVA claims that 22 ex-service members die by suicide every single day.
That was the message brought to Washington last week by veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and their supporters, in their annual "Storm the Hill" campaign, which aims to raise awareness among lawmakers about the struggles of returning service members. This year, suicide topped the list.
As part of the campaign, the group took to the National Mall, where they placed a flag for each vet lost to suicide this year.
Veterans' campaigns often hit deaf ears. Many people like to nominally "stand" with the troops, but when it comes to supporting — and financing — the services they need after coming home from war, the backing is less firm.
IAVA, the largest network for veterans of the last two wars, hopes to change that and last week turned their campaign to combat suicide into a proposed bill, introduced on Thursday by US Senator John Walsh of Montana, the first Iraq vet to ever serve in the Senate.
"Far too often, we're leaving our veterans to fight their toughest battles alone," Walsh said in a statement. "Returning home from combat does not erase what happened there."
His "Suicide Prevention for America's Veterans Act" hopes to fight the problem with large reform to veterans' access to care, including expanding special combat eligibility from five to 15 years, and repaying the medical loans of psychiatrists who sign up for long-term service with ex-soldiers.
The bill would also require the military to review its practice of handing out "bad conduct" discharges to members for behavior related to post-traumatic stress disorder — so disqualifying them from the little mental health services available to them under the VA system.
The department said it has taken steps to address the suicides, including by asking for additional funding for mental health issues. The VA provided mental health treatment to 1.4 vets last year — up from 900,000 in 2007.
"We have made strong progress, but we must do more," a spokesman for the department said in a statement.
But with a suicide happening almost every hour, veterans' advocates think they should do a whole lot more — though they add that suicide prevention is not just the responsibility of the VA.
In the video below, Iraq and Afghanistan vets talk about coming home.
VICE News spoke with Paul Rieckhoff, the founder of IAVA. Here's what he told us.
VICE News: This has been an issue for a long time. Why the focus on suicide now?
Paul Rieckhoff: Our members told us it was their number one priority. We have the largest network of post-9/11 vets in the country and every year they tell us what they think we should focus on, and [this year] they said suicide. I think the numbers tell a pretty powerful story, but most folks think the numbers could be much higher, there's not a lot of great research, there's no national registry. It's clearly a matter of life and death and that's what's driving us, and the broader veteran community, to tackle this issue. I'm actually in Houston right now. I just left the family of one of our leaders, a guy named Clay Hunt who died three years ago today. We have been deep in this fight against suicide for years and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
Are things getting worse for vets?
It looks like it's getting worse. We also expect increased demand [for mental health services] in the coming years. Candidly, we expected a better national response, sooner. These numbers are startling but they've been up there for a while, and suicide is an issue that has been on the national radar for a while. But the president and Congress have been really mute on it, and we're losing buddies left and right. It's got to be a public health priority. It's also a national security imperative, and I think it's a moral imperative.
But 22 suicides a day is crazy. Why is nobody talking about this?
Nobody is talking about the war either. Most people are personally disconnected. Less than one half of one percent of the country serves, so most people don't have this kind of personal connection to these wars and definitely don't have a personal connection to suicide. Folks care about what affects them personally and unfortunately folks are largely disconnected from all our issues, but especially this one.
What about the military itself and the VA system, why aren't they doing more?
That's a great question for the [VA] secretary. Give him a call and ask him, he probably won't call back. I think the Department [of Defense] is moving much more aggressively than the VA has, but I think we also have to appreciate that they are only components in this fight. About 45 percent of our members never go to the VA, so it's got to be more comprehensive. We've got to work together like spokes on the wheel. It's got to be VA, Department of Defense, community-based health groups, hospitals, churches, we all have to work together, especially at the community level, because a lot of veterans, they're going to come for help in a variety of different ways, a lot of folks won't go to the VA. Access is a huge problem, quality is still a major challenge, and continuity of care is usually very bad.
Is there still a stigma around both suicide and mental health issues?
That's true across the civilian population as well. There's no mental health priority, suicide is a huge problem in the civilian population, mental health issues in general still have a huge stigma. It's exaggerated in the military, it's compounded in the military, but civilians aren't crazy about running to get mental health either. In some ways, this [campaign] can be a good thing for everybody, if we can learn more about mental health challenges and what's going on here I think could benefit everyone. There's an old saying that the only victor in war is medicine, and I think that if we can make some progress in the next few years it would definitely be true around these issues.
There is even very little medical research. There's something like 30, 40 programs at the Department of Defense and they don't even know which ones work. I think we've got to really drill down and find out the scope of the problem and the scope of the solution. Clay Hunt got a lot of national attention, but a lot of these folks are really nameless, uncounted, and undocumented — their stories aren't really told. That's why we felt that we had to make such a powerful statement in Washington. Last week was a wakeup call.
You called this new bill "historic legislation." Is Washington going to get behind it?
We hope so. It covers most of the major priorities that we've seen. Washington is often where good ideas go to die, so we'll see. There's been initial bipartisan support, having Senator Walsh, an Iraq vet, up front is important. We hope, but you never know. The other issue besides the bipartisanship is the short calendar: if we don't get this done by the summer it's going to be very hard to move it forward. Cost is always an issue to people. Some folks are going to quibble about cost. It's going to cost money, and some folks don't want to spend money on anything in Washington right now. And then there's also the standard political infighting. Often times, parties don't want to give the other party a win. We're hoping that John McCain will step up, as will other combat vets in the Senate. But the president has also got to step up, we're calling on the president to issue executive action here that can tackle some of the problems without having to wait for Congress. We hope he'll do that sometime in the next few weeks.
What is your background? Why did you get involved in this?
I founded IAVA 10 years ago. It's personal for me: I served in Iraq and one of my guys, Jason Bonts, died by suicide a few months after we got home, and I've been losing friends ever since. For me it's very personal. They've been fighting and sacrificing for a decade, and everybody else has been living life uninterrupted so they've got to get their lives back in order, and find jobs, feed their families, and go through all those transitions. Maybe they've also got a mental health injury or physical injury. It's very stressful. It's very chaotic. And the resources are pretty scattered. Getting help helps, but getting good help is very hard. It's a difficult system to navigate, all the issues we laid out are pretty much true in every city in America. We didn't even have a crisis line until 2008. There were six, seven years of war before we even had a real veteran crisis line. That gives you a sense of how far behind we are.
Are more mental health resources available to people while they're serving?
The Department of Defense has actually done a pretty good job of increasing the mental health resources. They've increased training; there are usually mental health support teams embedded within units, so they've come a long way. The suicide rate is still too high there, but the real problem is when they leave. Most of the folks that we see that have real challenges, sometimes the challenges don't reveal themselves until they've been home for five years, or maybe seven years, and that's part of why we want to extend the eligibility from five years to 15, because so many folks don't show symptoms until they've been home a while.
Why is the question of wrongful discharges so important to you?
Tens of thousands of people have been discharged under what they call "bad conduct" discharges or pre-existing conditions. If you come down with that paper, you can't go to the VA. A lot of these folks didn't really have pre-existing conditions, and they can't even access the limited resources that are available, so those people are especially at risk for mental health challenges and suicide. That's an example of where the president can lean in and impact that issue pretty much immediately. [The military has] this very tough culture that prides itself on toughness and being macho. But there are some pretty counterproductive policies and I think the wrongful discharge situation has really gone on for too long. We have a guy, Kris Goldsmith, who was with us at the White House last week. He is a great example. He tried to attempt suicide and then was given a general discharge by the army for supposedly committing "misconduct," as that's how the military interprets surviving an attempt. As a result, he lost access to the Post-9/11 GI Bill and was left "stuck," and unable to improve his life for quite a while. Thankfully, he rebounded and he's now helping other folks out. He's a good example of how bad that can get.
Follow Alice Speri on Twitter: @alicesperi
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Support Our Troops.
That sounds like socialism. :mad:
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Well first, it would be interesting to see the actual number, and how it stacks up against benchmarks such as the suicide rate for military people that did not serve in Iraq or Afghanistan.
QuoteThat's 1,892 former soldiers who have killed themselves since the beginning of 2014, according the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America organization (IAVA). But even that is a conservative number, some say, as there is no centralized system to track veteran suicides.
A recent poll found that more than half of post-9/11 veterans know at least one colleague who attempted or managed to kill themselves. For many, the list of friends lost to suicide is much longer.
Mental health is one of the greatest challenges facing returning soldiers, but a deadly combination of indifference, stigma, red tape, and government dysfunction are to blame for the sobering numbers. Citing Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) statistics, the IAVA claims that 22 ex-service members die by suicide every single day.
So:
--there isn't a centralized system to track veteran suicides
--some advocate group says that the number is 22 a day, apparently based on VA statistics (since there isn't a centralized system, not sure what these are)
--the 22 a day number is "conservative" because, well, just because "some say". Not sure who these "some" are.
--An unreferenced "recent poll" found lots of veterans say they know someone who at least attempted suicide. The article then asserts "for many" the list is "much longer". It is unclear whether this is supported by the same poll, another poll, or just speculation by the author, or how many are being referenced.
I agree it sounds unbelievably high. Even a fraction of that should be cause for concern, though.
I share the sympathy for the topic, but no-one should spend the time seriously dissecting this article: Vice is a rag. It was a semi-outrageous Montreal grant-sponsored mag 20 years ago, a semi-entertaining free "hipster" fashion and music magazine in New York (run by Canadian neo-cons :swiss:) 10 years ago, and now it's trying to break into "hard news" with a lot of silly pseudo-serious exploitation pieces.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 02, 2014, 10:34:35 PM
no-one should spend the time seriously dissecting this article
My time may be worth less than you think it is.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 02, 2014, 10:34:35 PM
I share the sympathy for the topic, but no-one should spend the time seriously dissecting this article: Vice is a rag. It was a semi-outrageous Montreal grant-sponsored mag 20 years ago, a semi-entertaining free "hipster" fashion and music magazine in New York (run by Canadian neo-cons :swiss:) 10 years ago, and now it's trying to break into "hard news" with a lot of silly pseudo-serious exploitation pieces.
I hardly ever read anything from them, but their video reports are pretty damned good.
Poor bastards. If only if it wasn't for that damned draft that makes fighting in wars compulsory and against one's will.
Is it really unbelievably high?
Certainly in the UK veterans are disproportionately likely to have mental health problems and to be homeless. Suicide isn't a huge shock from that.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 03, 2014, 05:38:19 AM
Is it really unbelievably high?
Certainly in the UK veterans are disproportionately likely to have mental health problems and to be homeless. Suicide isn't a huge shock from that.
It certainly seems unbelievably high, but the problem with the article goes deeper than just being a single-sourced piece from an obvious hack: (1) there is nothing here but speculation to link the suicides with "the war;" (2) the article contains repeated assertions along the lines of "no one gives a shit" and "no one is talking about the war" when the author
has to know that the audience knows that these statements are untrue.
There probably is a problem, but emo journalism isn't part of the solution.
Article is shit but it made me listen to the song Killer Sounds which I like. :)
My best friend died tonight, he took his own life
He fought a war but he survived, then couldn't deal with life
You're a hero in hell but a problem at home
A killing machine now stuck in the wrong hole
You end up inside then out on the street
You sold all your medals to make some ends meet
Well thank you son!
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Quote from: dps on April 03, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Particularly as the number cited appears to be for all vets, not just Iraq and Afghan vets.
(I didn't read the whole article.)
CDC has 38k - 2010.
Quote from: dps on April 03, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Uhm, the 1,892 figure is for this year, which is not a full year just yet.
Quote from: DGuller on April 03, 2014, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: dps on April 03, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Uhm, the 1,892 figure is for this year, which is not a full year just yet.
Yeah, the headline is 22 a day, which works out to something like 8k a year.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 03, 2014, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: dps on April 03, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Uhm, the 1,892 figure is for this year, which is not a full year just yet.
Yeah, the headline is 22 a day, which works out to something like 8k a year.
Or just around 25% of total annual suicides in the US using the most recent WHO numbers from 2005. :hmm:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 03, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 03, 2014, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: dps on April 03, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
Is the 1,892 figure a real number, or some kind of extrapolation? I find it very hard to believe that it's a real number, because that would imply that about 25% of all people who commit suicide in US are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. That strikes me as extremely implausible, considering that far less than 1% of the US population belong to the group.
Uhm, according to the WHO, there were 32,559 siucides in the US in 2005 (which seems to be the most recent year they have totals for). If that's a typical figure, 1892 would be a bit less than 6% of suicides in this country, not "about 25%". That doesn't really seem that high.
Uhm, the 1,892 figure is for this year, which is not a full year just yet.
Yeah, the headline is 22 a day, which works out to something like 8k a year.
Or just around 25% of total annual suicides in the US using the most recent WHO numbers from 2005. :hmm:
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
It is almost as though DGuller speaks wisely on statistics. :hmm:
In summary:
Areas of Established DGuller Expertise:
Statistics
Probability
Tracksuit Fashion
Areas of Established DGuller Ignorance:
How to Pump Gas
How to Change a Tire
Other Automotive Topics
English Pronunciation
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
It is almost as though DGuller speaks wisely on statistics. :hmm:
In summary:
Areas of Established DGuller Expertise:
Statistics
Probability
Tracksuit Fashion
Areas of Established DGuller Ignorance:
How to Pump Gas
How to Change a Tire
Other Automotive Topics
English Pronunciation
Responsible Blueberry Consumption
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 03, 2014, 09:28:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
It is almost as though DGuller speaks wisely on statistics. :hmm:
In summary:
Areas of Established DGuller Expertise:
Statistics
Probability
Tracksuit Fashion
Generally Accepted Accounting Principles
Areas of Established DGuller Ignorance:
How to Pump Gas
How to Change a Tire
Other Automotive Topics
English Pronunciation
Responsible Blueberry Consumption
Thank you Mihali, was about to correct Dg's sock
:mad:
Don't forget DG meekly getting mugged.
:mad:
His Telefon contact book was stolen.
Army wives of deployed soldiers are notorious cheaters. Suicide fits the Army Code better than murdering her.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 03, 2014, 09:28:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
It is almost as though DGuller speaks wisely on statistics. :hmm:
In summary:
Areas of Established DGuller Expertise:
Statistics
Probability
Tracksuit Fashion
Areas of Established DGuller Ignorance:
How to Pump Gas
How to Change a Tire
Other Automotive Topics
English Pronunciation
Responsible Blueberry Consumption
What a decent hamburger tastes like
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 04, 2014, 11:50:56 PM
Army wives of deployed soldiers are notorious cheaters. Suicide fits the Army Code better than murdering her.
Army stronk?
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Don't fight useless wars like Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam?
This is a thread about our hero veterans being abandoned, not a DGuller roast thread. Have you people got no shame? :mad:
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2014, 09:08:22 AM
This is a thread about our hero veterans being abandoned, not a DGuller roast thread. Have you people got no shame? :mad:
Yeah it's outrageous. <_<
It deserves a separate thread. :D
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 04, 2014, 11:56:08 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 03, 2014, 09:28:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 03, 2014, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Bah! That was just a lucky guess!
It is almost as though DGuller speaks wisely on statistics. :hmm:
In summary:
Areas of Established DGuller Expertise:
Statistics
Probability
Tracksuit Fashion
Areas of Established DGuller Ignorance:
How to Pump Gas
How to Change a Tire
Other Automotive Topics
English Pronunciation
Responsible Blueberry Consumption
What a decent hamburger tastes like
How to keep a secret
I forgot.
:rolleyes: That's a bit low, Dorsey. Every secret has an implicit out clause, where your commitment to not divulge it is superseded by other considerations, and where the conditions under which you made the commitment change radically. Divulging a secret to someone shouldn't make them a permanent accomplice to all your future deception. I think I kept you secret for long enough for everyone else to stop caring about it, and then some.
Quote from: Zanza on April 05, 2014, 02:53:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Don't fight useless wars like Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam?
Yeah once all the WWII veterans are dead and no one still remembers the Holocaust I'll listen to a member of history's most evil race when it comes to what wars we should or shouldn't fight.
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2014, 10:21:11 AM
:rolleyes: That's a bit low, Dorsey. Every secret has an implicit out clause, where your commitment to not divulge it is superseded by other considerations, and where the conditions under which you made the commitment change radically. Divulging a secret to someone shouldn't make them a permanent accomplice to all your future deception. I think I kept you secret for long enough for everyone else to stop caring about it, and then some.
Well this secret didn't have that implicit out clause, as I clearly implied. :P
Also, I don't know that conditions ever really changed all that much; I just kept the thing going for 9 years. And I think some people did care. See my sig, garbon doesn't like me now.
Lettow was able to keep the secret. I didn't tell him I was Dorsey, but he knew things were not on the up and up when we met.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 05, 2014, 11:18:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2014, 10:21:11 AM
:rolleyes: That's a bit low, Dorsey. Every secret has an implicit out clause, where your commitment to not divulge it is superseded by other considerations, and where the conditions under which you made the commitment change radically. Divulging a secret to someone shouldn't make them a permanent accomplice to all your future deception. I think I kept you secret for long enough for everyone else to stop caring about it, and then some.
Well this secret didn't have that implicit out clause, as I clearly implied. :P
Also, I don't know that conditions ever really changed all that much; I just kept the thing going for 9 years. And I think some people did care. See my sig, garbon doesn't like me now.
Lettow was able to keep the secret. I didn't tell him I was Dorsey, but he knew things were not on the up and up when we met.
Dude, you got into the Back Room under false identity, clearly a significant development on the conditions that existed 8 years ago. I made no promise to passively facilitate your infiltration of a private forum. If you don't see how me maintaining your secret would violate the trust of a whole bunch of other people, then there is really nothing that I can say.
Every secret has a scope. If I were testifying in court under oath, and a question came up about the true identity of alfred russel, I would probably not keep your secret either in that situation. I think I have a pretty long track record of keeping your secret when it's being kept within the scope, Lettow didn't know your identity for 7 years.
Dude is fighting some serious inner demons here. I'm impressed that he manages to switch accounts for the replies.
Quote from: The Brain on April 05, 2014, 11:40:46 AM
Dude is fighting some serious inner demons here. I'm impressed that he manages to switch accounts for the replies.
:lol:
:mad:
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2014, 11:47:06 AM
:mad:
man, some people just can'ttakea compliment :P
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on April 05, 2014, 10:23:27 AM
Quote from: Zanza on April 05, 2014, 02:53:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Don't fight useless wars like Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam?
Yeah once all the WWII veterans are dead and no one still remembers the Holocaust I'll listen to a member of history's most evil race when it comes to what wars we should or shouldn't fight.
And Otto nukes Berlin.
Quote from: The Brain on April 05, 2014, 11:40:46 AM
Dude is fighting some serious inner demons here. I'm impressed that he manages to switch accounts for the replies.
Back when I posted under Dorsey and Jebediah, there were times that I had arguments with myself. I thought it was hilarious, and would have probably thought it was more hilarious had I understood that the mods knew they were both me.
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Yes I can.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Don't think we are fooled--we know your sock puppets are legion.
It seems, for western militaries, that suicide resulting from deployment related issues is a greater cause of death than deployment related issues. Even in the case of israel sucide is the leading cause of death during military service (traffic accidents are second), they have to deal with a conscript army, but their service so close to home might mitigate the stress of service.
Perhaps mental fitness and training should be as actively dealt with by the military as physical fitness and training is?
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Not much of a help I know, but its' one of your children's first names.
Quote from: alfred russel on April 05, 2014, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Don't think we are fooled--we know your sock puppets are legion.lettow.
Quote from: mongers on April 05, 2014, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Not much of a help I know, but its' one of your children's first names.
Nope, can't remember those either.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:28:51 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 05, 2014, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2014, 12:16:10 PM
I can barely remember my sock puppet password.
Not much of a help I know, but its' one of your children's first names.
Nope, can't remember those either.
:D
Well, there is no much to do about suicide.
It is a personal choice, as long as it is done privately.
I tell my Soldiers not to do it, it is a permanent solution for a temporary problem, since all problems in life are temporary.
But is really hard for us because we know how easy is to do it.
I myself think about suicide from time to time, but I have never made a plan for it, so I am not too worry about myself doing anything stupid.
Nobody commits suicide without making a plan first, so as long as you don't get to that stage, you are safe.
The Army have the MRT program, master resilience training, to help out Soldiers become better at dealing with the stress of military life.
I think it helps a bit.
And by the way, all these problems have always existed in the military, in all militaries, in all ages.
We are just better now at recognizing it.
Quote from: Zanza on April 05, 2014, 02:53:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2014, 10:09:05 PM
Happens after every war. What is there to do about it?
Don't fight useless wars like Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam?
Ok but what should we go about the useful ones?