Languish.org

All of the above are super-national, so India includes Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka, and Iranian includes Afghan and Baloch.  I purposefully left out some of the most Psellus-y because I expected to get crap for it. 

I'm not sure.  Might vote Chinese. 

1. This is racist.

2.  Japanese.  C'mon.  Akira Kurosawa, Masaki Kobayashi, carrier warfare, Godzilla, high definition technology, bukkake films... the list goes on.  What does any other Asian culture offer that remotely compares?

Over/under on thread hijack on hottest Asians is page and a half.

I am not sure what exactly makes a culture a favorite. Out of the places I traveled to in Asia so far, I guess I like South East Asia best.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 26, 2014, 12:32:08 PM
Over/under on thread hijack on hottest Asians is page and a half.

I actually voted on that rationale, given my general ignorance on the cultural matter. Iran.

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 12:25:33 PM
All of the above are super-national, so India includes Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka, and Iranian includes Afghan and Baloch.  I purposefully left out some of the most Psellus-y because I expected to get crap for it. 

I'm not sure.  Might vote Chinese.

The Vietnamese, Thai, Burmese, Laotian and Cambodians will surely appreciate being lumped altogether when you give Korea and Japan separate categories :lol:

Hebrew.

SE Asia was divided between Island/Peninsular SE Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia) and continental SE Asia.  I think the shared tradition of Buddhism and Indian and Chinese influence makes the region reasonably coherent.  Probably the most problematic grouping here is Tibet, Mongols and Manchus, but I wanted a West/North China Buddhist category and didn't think there would be enough votes to have separate Tibetan and Mongol, Manchu and Siberian groups. 

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 12:29:50 PM
1. This is racist.

2.  Japanese.  C'mon.  Akira Kurosawa, Masaki Kobayashi, carrier warfare, Godzilla, high definition technology, bukkake films... the list goes on.  What does any other Asian culture offer that remotely compares?

China has philosophy, science, literature, religion and history that Japan just doesn't.  There's also substantially more diversity in China. 

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 12:52:08 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 12:29:50 PM
1. This is racist.

2.  Japanese.  C'mon.  Akira Kurosawa, Masaki Kobayashi, carrier warfare, Godzilla, high definition technology, bukkake films... the list goes on.  What does any other Asian culture offer that remotely compares?

China has philosophy, science, literature, religion and history that Japan just doesn't.  There's also substantially more diversity in China.

Ok so now it is Japan's fault that their islands don't spread half a continent wide?

Mainland Chinese cinema is really meh. Even once vibrant Honk Kong has been dying since the reincorporation. Only Taiwan does interesting stuff anymore.

Korean and Japanese filmmaking is way more interesting.

My favs are the Turkic people and the Indians.  Went with the Turks just because.

None of them particularly interest me.  I like Vietnamese food, as well as some Japanese and Americanized Chinese food, but that's about as far as my interests go.

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 12:52:08 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 12:29:50 PM
1. This is racist.

2.  Japanese.  C'mon.  Akira Kurosawa, Masaki Kobayashi, carrier warfare, Godzilla, high definition technology, bukkake films... the list goes on.  What does any other Asian culture offer that remotely compares?

China has philosophy, science, literature, religion and history that Japan just doesn't.  There's also substantially more diversity in China.

Philosophy?  OK libarts.

Science?  How many carriers did Chiang field?

Religion?  Sure they do.  Just ask the thirty million victims of the Taiping Rebellion.

History?  You could say the same thing about Britain and Russia.  Being an island nation has its advantages.

Japan is effectively a Western nation thanks to an early embrace of industrialization, and then forcing us to bomb that industry till they changed their culture into something with recognizable moral values.  Japan is the most like us, and hence Japan is my favorite.

I'm quite fond of Japan, but people like Ide and Lettow does take the lustre off a bit.

Luckily, I can appreciate each of these cultures on its own merits without the need to compare and rank them :)

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:20:24 PM
Luckily, I can appreciate each of these cultures on its own merits without the need to compare and rank them :)

:hug:

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:20:24 PM
Luckily, I can appreciate each of these cultures on its own merits without the need to compare and rank them :)

Cop out

Quote from: Tamas on March 26, 2014, 12:58:20 PM
Ok so now it is Japan's fault that their islands don't spread half a continent wide?

Sure.  They had their chance to spread over half a continent in the 20th century and failed to pull it off.

I guess if strictly on cinema, I'd have to go with India only because of the number of bollywood films that I've seen.

Quote from: garbon on March 26, 2014, 01:27:03 PM

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:20:24 PM
Luckily, I can appreciate each of these cultures on its own merits without the need to compare and rank them :)

:hug:

Seriously, though, with each of these cultures that I've had exposure to (and many more), I've found people to be incredibly welcoming and kind. While traveling and doing business I have found people - whatever their culture - to be fundamentally decent and kind, when you meet them in positive or neutral context, whatever their culture.

I haven't had exposure to all of the cultures Spellus lists, but I've had very positive experiences with Iranians, Indians, Arabs, Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese. In addition to the people being charming, and often very funny, each of the cultures has pretty awesome cuisine, incredible architecture, fascinating histories, and all kinds of cool bits about them.

Fear of Lettowism lowers the Japanese vote ...  :D

I don't take the lustre off anything.  Jacob is engaging in moral relativism.  It's okay, it's just his culture. :P

Quote from: garbon on March 26, 2014, 01:32:15 PM
I guess if strictly on cinema, I'd have to go with India only because of the number of bollywood films that I've seen.

On cinema, it'd be a toss up between Korea (on the strength of a few movies I've really enjoyed) and Japan (more films I've enjoyed, but fewer that have stuck with me as much as my favourite Korean films); but China's a close runner up esp. when you include Taiwan.

On food, I simply can't pick. Same with architecture and history; there's just too much awesome stuff.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:37:49 PM
On food, I simply can't pick. Same with architecture and history; there's just too much awesome stuff.

Agreed.

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 01:37:13 PM
I don't take the lustre off anything.  Jacob is engaging in moral relativism.  It's okay, it's just his culture. :P

Moral relativism? WTF dude? As a lawyer type person I'd expect you to get your basic definitions straight. Which part of this discussion has to do with morality at all?

I feel uninformed for not having a favourite culture on every bloody continent.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:39:48 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 01:37:13 PM
I don't take the lustre off anything.  Jacob is engaging in moral relativism.  It's okay, it's just his culture. :P

Moral relativism? WTF dude? As a lawyer type person I'd expect you to get your basic definitions straight. Which part of this discussion has to do with morality at all?

Does "culture" for our purposes not include how women are treated, systems of social organization, intolerance toward religious and political dissent, racism, etc. :unsure:

Is it just pretty stuff they make?

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 01:35:23 PM
Fear of Lettowism lowers the Japanese vote ...  :D

You know what, fair play to lettow - as idiosyncratic as he is, the Japan of his mind is at least constructed from exposure to the real thing. Sure he is selective in the parts he draws from (then again, who isn't) and he filters it through is own very specific lens, but at least it draws from something.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 01:35:23 PM
Fear of Lettowism lowers the Japanese vote ...  :D

You know what, fair play to lettow - as idiosyncratic as he is, the Japan of his mind is at least constructed from exposure to the real thing. Sure he is selective in the parts he draws from (then again, who isn't) and he filters it through is own very specific lens, but at least it draws from something.

I have to hand it to him - his adoration of japanese culture has not shattered upon exposure to it, as I would have predicted. -_-

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 01:43:09 PMDoes "culture" for our purposes not include how women are treatment, systems of social organization, intolerance toward religion, racism, etc. :unsure:

Is it just stuff?

Sure it does, but that's not what you were talking about, that's not what I was talking about, and that's not what anyone else in this thread was talking about until you brought it up right now in your post-posting-justification rear-guard action.

That said, if you have some insight into how these things are markedly preferable in how they are organized in Japan compared to, say, Polynesia, Vietnam, Siberia, China, Korea etc then I'd love to hear about it.

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:28:52 PM

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:20:24 PM
Luckily, I can appreciate each of these cultures on its own merits without the need to compare and rank them :)

Cop out

Whatever, mr. "just because".

Japanese.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:37:49 PM

Quote from: garbon on March 26, 2014, 01:32:15 PM
I guess if strictly on cinema, I'd have to go with India only because of the number of bollywood films that I've seen.

On cinema, it'd be a toss up between Korea (on the strength of a few movies I've really enjoyed) and Japan (more films I've enjoyed, but fewer that have stuck with me as much as my favourite Korean films); but China's a close runner up esp. when you include Taiwan.

On food, I simply can't pick. Same with architecture and history; there's just too much awesome stuff.

It is like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid. 

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:47:51 PM
Whatever, mr. "just because".

Arbitrary polls are best answered via arbitrary reasoning.

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 01:02:58 PM
Mainland Chinese cinema is really meh. Even once vibrant Honk Kong has been dying since the reincorporation. Only Taiwan does interesting stuff anymore.

Korean and Japanese filmmaking is way more interesting.

Zhang Yimou's late 80s/early 90s stuff is classic. 

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:52:31 PMIt is like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid.

That's pretty easy for me, what with only having one kid. Should I have more, I'll fall back on the "not going to do that."

Which of your kids are your favourite, Valmy?

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:53:43 PM

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:47:51 PM
Whatever, mr. "just because".

Arbitrary polls are best answered via arbitrary reasoning.

Alternately, you can argue with Ide about moral relativism.

Ok. You've convinced me. I'll go China, because my wife is Chinese.

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:52:31 PM

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:37:49 PM

Quote from: garbon on March 26, 2014, 01:32:15 PM
I guess if strictly on cinema, I'd have to go with India only because of the number of bollywood films that I've seen.

On cinema, it'd be a toss up between Korea (on the strength of a few movies I've really enjoyed) and Japan (more films I've enjoyed, but fewer that have stuck with me as much as my favourite Korean films); but China's a close runner up esp. when you include Taiwan.

On food, I simply can't pick. Same with architecture and history; there's just too much awesome stuff.

It is like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid.

They always pick the Asian kid.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:54:31 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:52:31 PMIt is like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid.

That's pretty easy for me, what with only having one kid. Should I have more, I'll fall back on the "not going to do that."

Which of your kids are your favourite, Valmy?

I love both but I will vote for the older one just because.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:54:31 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 01:52:31 PMIt is like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid.

That's pretty easy for me, what with only having one kid. Should I have more, I'll fall back on the "not going to do that."

Which of your kids are your favourite, Valmy?

I have a favourite kid. :ph34r:

Don't all parents, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves?   :hmm:

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:55:29 PM
Alternately, you can argue with Ide about moral relativism.

Ok. You've convinced me. I'll go China, because my wife is Chinese.

Was that so hard?  Seriously though I agree with you, somehow the seriousness of your tone made me want to bust your nuts a bit.

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:47:05 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 01:43:09 PMDoes "culture" for our purposes not include how women are treatment, systems of social organization, intolerance toward religion, racism, etc. :unsure:

Is it just stuff?

Sure it does, but that's not what you were talking about, that's not what I was talking about, and that's not what anyone else in this thread was talking about until you brought it up right now in your post-posting-justification rear-guard action.

You always accuse me of this!  I only rarely actually do that.

Quote from: MEJapan is effectively a Western nation thanks to an early embrace of industrialization, and then forcing us to bomb that industry till they changed their culture into something with recognizable moral values.  Japan is the most like us, and hence Japan is my favorite.

What moral values do you think I was talking about?  The late 1940s turn to naturalistic film peformances rather than formalized theatrical acting styles, and socially aware films rather than propaganda works?

And yeah, I think they have a better and more ethically organized society than PRChina, Iran, or Indonesia.

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 01:57:10 PM
Don't all parents, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves?   :hmm:

I have a favorite cat.

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 02:00:35 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 01:57:10 PM
Don't all parents, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves?   :hmm:

I have a favorite cat.

I don't!

Quote from: Ideologue on March 26, 2014, 02:00:05 PMAnd yeah, I think they have a better and more ethically organized society than PRChina, Iran, or Indonesia.

... and Korea, Taiwan, and Polynesia as well?

No, the RoK and RoC are roughly on the same level, albeit until recently this was not the case (took a while for democracy to really happen in both).  Any qualitative differences are not readily visible to me now, however.

Polynesia is a bunch of places.  I'm sure they have fine cultures.  Though Easter Island didn't have a particularly sustainable one.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. I reject your arbitrary reasons and substitute my own, as was the initial intention of the poll as per Valmy.

:hug:

Neither the RoK nor the RoC have warshrines for men who participated in war crimes.  Japan is all kinds of fucked up.

Anyway, I let Monty Python answer for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH2P_pVze6s

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 02:06:51 PM
Anyhow, it doesn't matter. I reject your arbitrary reasons and substitute my own

:D

Quote:hug:

:hug:

I was making a Danish/Canadian joke about moral relativism anyway. :P

QuotePhilosophy?  OK libarts.

One of my best friends did a lot of work on Taoist philosophy and I know enough about it to have a huge amount of respect for the tradition.  It is extremely modern, generally relatively practical and not as obsessed over by Western hippie-types, at least compared to Buddhism or Hinduism.

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 02:13:13 PM

QuotePhilosophy?  OK libarts.

One of my best friends did a lot of work on Taoist philosophy and I know enough about it to have a huge amount of respect for the tradition.  It is extremely modern, generally relatively practical and not as obsessed over by Western hippie-types, at least compared to Buddhism or Hinduism.

Pilosophical Taoism is a perfectly respectible form of mystic thought, but only ever of interest to a tiny handful of intellectuals. Taoism as it is actually practiced by the vast majority of Chinese believers is essentially an aspect of Chinese folk religion, having very little to do with philosophical Taoism. 

What did I say to contradict that?

I visited Japan and was struck that in metro stations they'll have racks of comic books for children to read.  There's no sign out or anything, children just take them out and return them when they're done.  Being from Detroit I couldn't ever conceive of that working, but there it does.

I quite enjoyed my trip to Nippon and would wholeheartedly pick Japan, but I've also visited China.  I blame the Japanese for losing the war and for not re-militarizing.   :mad:  Though I guess the United States was largely responsible for that; what was FDR thinking?   :(

;)

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
What did I say to contradict that?

Nothing.

I'd only point out that philosophical Taoism is very similar to philosophical Zen Buddhism (influenced via Ch'an). They have more in common with each other, than either do with the popular religious traditions that bear the same name.

So both China and Japan share a lot of their philosophical traditions.

Food-wise, they're all brilliant. Kimchi, sushi, curries, satay sauce.

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 02:25:50 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
What did I say to contradict that?

Nothing.

I'd only point out that philosophical Taoism is very similar to philosophical Zen Buddhism (influenced via Ch'an). They have more in common with each other, than either do with the popular religious traditions that bear the same name.

So both China and Japan share a lot of their philosophical traditions.

By "share" I think you mean "Japan adopted Chinese and Chinese-influenced Indian" philosophical traditions.

What exactly do you mean by folk/popular taoism Malthus?

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 01:53:55 PM

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 01:02:58 PM
Mainland Chinese cinema is really meh. Even once vibrant Honk Kong has been dying since the reincorporation. Only Taiwan does interesting stuff anymore.

Korean and Japanese filmmaking is way more interesting.

Zhang Yimou's late 80s/early 90s stuff is classic.

Nah, he just aped Western "prestige" filmmaking, which is not that interesting on itself. His later, less westernish, films are actually more interesting. But they don't get nowhere near the stuff made in Taiwan or Honk Kong. Yay for free societies.

Taoism is generally a lot more comfortable with assimilating folk Chinese religion than Buddhism, and Confucianism is relatively secular.  Taoism is also associated with alchemy, folk-medicine and other esoteric practices. 

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 02:31:52 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 01:53:55 PM

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 01:02:58 PM
Mainland Chinese cinema is really meh. Even once vibrant Honk Kong has been dying since the reincorporation. Only Taiwan does interesting stuff anymore.

Korean and Japanese filmmaking is way more interesting.

Zhang Yimou's late 80s/early 90s stuff is classic.

Nah, he just aped Western "prestige" filmmaking, which is not that interesting on itself. His later, less westernish, films are actually more interesting. But they don't get nowhere near the stuff made in Taiwan or Honk Kong. Yay for free societies.

Raise the Red Lantern?  You think that's just aping western film making? 

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 02:35:24 PM

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 02:31:52 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 01:53:55 PM

Quote from: celedhring on March 26, 2014, 01:02:58 PM
Mainland Chinese cinema is really meh. Even once vibrant Honk Kong has been dying since the reincorporation. Only Taiwan does interesting stuff anymore.

Korean and Japanese filmmaking is way more interesting.

Zhang Yimou's late 80s/early 90s stuff is classic.

Nah, he just aped Western "prestige" filmmaking, which is not that interesting on itself. His later, less westernish, films are actually more interesting. But they don't get nowhere near the stuff made in Taiwan or Honk Kong. Yay for free societies.

Raise the Red Lantern?  You think that's just aping western film making?

The themes are Chinese, the filmmaking is western.

Zhang Yimou isn't a filmmaker with a strong creative personality. One of my favorite films of his, Keep Cool, is a blatant Wong Kar Wai ripoff. And stuff like Hero and House of Flying Daggers, which I like a lot, drink straight from the well of swordplay Honk Kong films, which in turn drink from traditional Chinese Opera - to me, they feel culturally more authentic.

Why would i like any of them.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 26, 2014, 02:28:15 PM
What exactly do you mean by folk/popular taoism Malthus?

It's the religious current of Taoism, that comes complete with a pantheon of gods. If you see a "Taoist Temple" with statues of gods or demons in it, it is a creation of folk/popular Taoism (which is sometimes expressed in different sects, but just as often gets mixed up with Buddism and Confucianism in a sort of folk cultural mish-mash). Also has to do with things like alchemy, tantric-like sexual practices, etc.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/religious-tao.html

This is in contrast with philosophical Taoism, which was only really of interest to a small group of intellectuals, and was "about" a philosophical form of mysticism akin to pantheism. 

For example, the taoism of Chuang Tzu said stuff about the taoist not worrying about death - essentially because a mystic who really 'felt' taoism understood, on an intuitive level, that being a part of creation (the "Tao") his body will of course die but what is essential about him or her - the Tao - is eternal. Folk/popular taoists took this to mean that Taoist sages knew the secret of immortality, like an elixer of life or the western "philosopher's stone", and that with the right practices or praying to the right gods a person can become immortal (something no doubt that caused the philosophical Taoists no end of amusement and exasperation). 

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 03:54:13 PMpantheism. 

:w00t:  Flashback to '04-'06 Languish, when you pantheists even managed to convert fahdiz to your religious non-religion religion!

Quote from: Jacob on March 26, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 01:35:23 PM
Fear of Lettowism lowers the Japanese vote ...  :D

You know what, fair play to lettow - as idiosyncratic as he is, the Japan of his mind is at least constructed from exposure to the real thing. Sure he is selective in the parts he draws from (then again, who isn't) and he filters it through is own very specific lens, but at least it draws from something.

Well said.

He does deserve some credit, as he's gone out and almost literally chased a dream. 

Plus we should remember he's grown up/exposed his most vulnerable age, over the years hes been here, if you see what I mean.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 26, 2014, 12:50:44 PM
Hebrew.

Great thing about this is that it works for almost every continent.

Only one Asian culture ever produce a dreadnought battleship.  There was never any doubt who I would vote for.

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 26, 2014, 04:20:50 PM

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 03:54:13 PMpantheism. 

:w00t:  Flashback to '04-'06 Languish, when you pantheists even managed to convert fahdiz to your religious non-religion religion!

Heh, my days of discussing these things are past, probably for the best for all concerned.  ;)

Nihon Bun

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 04:59:10 PM
Heh, my days of discussing these things are past, probably for the best for all concerned.  ;)

Jews are terrible at proselytizing.  What a quitter.  Come on Malthus help the poor souls who have yet to find the one true faith!

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 05:24:34 PM

Quote from: Malthus on March 26, 2014, 04:59:10 PM
Heh, my days of discussing these things are past, probably for the best for all concerned.  ;)

Jews are terrible at proselytizing.  What a quitter.

I can think of a few Jews who were really quite wonderful at it. 

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 12:52:08 PM
There's also substantially more diversity in China.

Compared to homogenous Japan, sure.  Compared to any other objective definition of the word "diversity", you're talking out of your ass as usual, cossacktard.

China was quite a diverse place before Mao.   :rolleyes:

And....*takes a drink*

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 10:33:38 PM
China was quite a diverse place before Mao.   :rolleyes:

So you used the present tense to refer to a state of affairs 70 years in the past?

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 10:33:38 PM
China was quite a diverse place before Mao.   :rolleyes:

You mean it was a diverse place prior to the Pleistocene Age.  Numbnuts.

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 10:36:14 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 10:33:38 PM
China was quite a diverse place before Mao.   :rolleyes:

So you used the present tense to refer to a state of affairs 70 years in the past?

he's using the Dorsey method to age the diversity

If we are talking linguistics, then there's the obvious divide between the many mutually unintelligible dialects of China, in addition to Turkish, Mongol, Manchu, Tibetan, and the various other languages of the SW. 

If we are talking geography, you have everything from the Gobi to the jungles of Yunnan.

If we are talking in terms of physical anthropology (unlikely) there is a pretty wide diversity, from North Chinese to South Chinese to Tibetan to half-Caucasian Uighurs. 

If we are talking religiously, there is Islam, the extremely diverse variation of Chinese religion, Buddhism, the Kaifeng Jews, local Christians. 

If we are talking cuisine, similarly there is a lot of diversity.

I think it is a pretty diverse place by just about any metric.  People with Western European backgrounds are just more likely to either be ignorant of the nation, or else believe that because the majority of Chinese have long identified as "Han" that there isn't a huge amount of diversity within that group. 

Quote from: Valmy on March 26, 2014, 10:36:14 PM

Quote from: Queequeg on March 26, 2014, 10:33:38 PM
China was quite a diverse place before Mao.   :rolleyes:

So you used the present tense to refer to a state of affairs 70 years in the past?

It was one of the most traumatic events in 20th Century history.  Between that, the Japanese and industrialization it's a wonder there is as much as there is. 

Besides, this happens everywhere.  If you were to go to 17th Century France there'd be far more local diversity then than there is today. 

Wait, is diversity a good thing?  Our ancestors just spent the last thousand or so years trying to stamp it out.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 26, 2014, 10:36:22 PM
You mean it was a diverse place prior to the Pleistocene Age.  Numbnuts.

What do you know about Chinese diversity?

Uighurs4eva!

Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2014, 12:35:14 AM
Uighurs4eva!

I live near an unbelievably good Uighur restaurant :mmm:

What's Uighur food like?

Chinese food but with lots spices and some techniques from Central Asia/Middle East.

So for example do a lamb shish which is tiny bits of lamb, alternating with melting lamb fat spiced heavily with cumin and lightly with chilli. There's also a lamb shish noodle which is a different sort of shish, again it's heavy on the cumin but there's this slow burning intense heat to the chilli on the dry shish which you stir through the hand-pulled noodles so they aren't glooping in sauce but lightly coated in the meaty spiced coating of the lamb. I'm always a bit dubious about cumin because I think it can easily destroy other flavours and not add enough on its own, but it's incredible here.

There's also the wonderfully titled 'big plate chicken' (or if there's fewer than four of you 'medium plate chicken'). Which is a huge stew pot of light but warming chilli broth and some veg, potatoes (in a stew! in a Chinese restaurant!) and chicken on the bone. You pick those bits out with your chopsticks and then they bring a big bowl of hand-pulled noodles and pour it into the broth for you to dish up.

And some beautiful veg side dishes: cold smacked cucumber with chilli and garlic, and an intensely spicy chilli cabbage dish. Wonderfully they're also on the liberal end of the Muslim spectrum because they do (wonderful) home-made pork and chive dumplings every day (£3.50 for 10) and a twice cooked pork which seems Sichaun-y in flavour to me.

It's one of my favourite restaurants and has never cost more than £15 for food.

More generally a big trend in London over the last five-ten years has been a regionalisation of Chinese and Indian restaurants. We're starting to realise that talking about either of those types of food is like talking about 'European' food. I've read that the large increase in Mainland Chinese students and immigrants also means there's been a shift from Cantonese food which is what Chinese always used to mean in England. For a casual eater like me it's amazing though :mmm:

That sounds completely, totally amazing.  And yeah, the same thing is happening in New York and to a lesser extent Chicago. 

I'm actually very surprised by how Chinese and un-Central Asian that sounds. 

Can anyone help me with the name of the clay pot often used to cook Chinese dishes in the oven?

Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2014, 12:29:51 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 26, 2014, 10:36:22 PM
You mean it was a diverse place prior to the Pleistocene Age.  Numbnuts.

What do you know about Chinese diversity?

Eat me with duck sauce, Xiacob, you condescending fuckstick.

China is more diverse of course but don't just shrug off Japan as homogenous. There is quite a lot of diversity in Japan too. And that's even after a century of governments actively trying to kill it.

There's a substantial difference in regional diversity, where ethnic groups are enclaved by history, poverty or politics, but that doesnt mean it's societally diverse.

But since Xiacob and the Cossacktard are now publishing Chinese Diversity Quarterly, we'll just leave the disussion to the experts.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 27, 2014, 12:36:54 AM

Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2014, 12:35:14 AM
Uighurs4eva!

I live near an unbelievably good Uighur restaurant :mmm:

Silk Road?

Been meaning to go there for ever

Tyr, what's all this then? Even in Kansai, which puffs itself up so much as a sort of anti-Kanto, Japan's regional diversity isn't so much of a much. I'd ascribe more difference to Texans and South Carolinians, and they are peas in an idyllic, agrarian pod.

Quote from: Lettow77 on March 27, 2014, 08:07:44 AM
Tyr, what's all this then? Even in Kansai, which puffs itself up so much as a sort of anti-Kanto, Japan's regional diversity isn't so much of a much. I'd ascribe more difference to Texans and South Carolinians, and they are peas in an idyllic, agrarian pod.

:lol:

Quote from: Lettow77 on March 27, 2014, 08:07:44 AM
Tyr, what's all this then? Even in Kansai, which puffs itself up so much as a sort of anti-Kanto, Japan's regional diversity isn't so much of a much. I'd ascribe more difference to Texans and South Carolinians, and they are peas in an idyllic, agrarian pod.

Given post war Japan was  heavily built on American influenced "Lolz, cars and concrete!!111" the urban centres, and even to an extent smaller places, tend to look much of a muchness. Nonetheless differences still shine through.
Its really interesting how in Japan you really have regional foods that do tend to stick to their region. In Britain we've pretty much figured food out and if something is good it becomes universal around the country. In Japan..not so. The inner-culture of the people tends to vary quite a bit too, Kansai people really do tend to be more outgoing and disrespectful of the rules.

Regional foods is a sort of enforced diversity through a very homogenous obsession with regional specialties, though. How many times can you hear that this small town is renowned for its [variant of noodles, vegetable, fruit] before you stop ascribing it to genuine diversity? m-muh meibutsu

I'll give you the bit about Kansai being less stuffy, but only by degrees. They can't get themselves free from what minna would think or do in any given situation regardless; its just the kansai minna is a slightly different flavor is all.

You might be right, though; as much as I say they aren't very different, I'm pretty partisan to western Japan. Regions that defied the sonno joi are a suspect lot.

 :lol:
You are an Otaku who would have supported the Sonno Joi.

>not supporting Hashimoto's glorious second restoration
>supporting the existence of filthy foreigners in Japan

I seriously hope

You don't want foreigners in Japan?

Boy, I bet this thread turned out just the way you thought, Psellus.

I was hoping Lettow was busy getting a kidney stolen by the Yakuza.

Quote from: Queequeg on March 27, 2014, 09:18:57 AM
You don't want foreigners in Japan?

Lettow's following his dream - to be massacred by an ultra-nationalist for being a filthy foreigner defiling the sacred soil and womenfolk of Japan .  :D

Quote from: Queequeg on March 27, 2014, 09:21:13 AM
I was hoping Lettow was busy getting a kidney stolen by the Yakuza.

You could put that boy in the most homogenous country in the world and he'd find "northerners" and "southerners" still. Put him on the tundra of Russia, and he'd still find something that reminded him of the South.

"Yes, Yakutsk is almost like sweet ole' Charleston".

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 27, 2014, 05:33:41 AM

Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2014, 12:29:51 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 26, 2014, 10:36:22 PM
You mean it was a diverse place prior to the Pleistocene Age.  Numbnuts.

What do you know about Chinese diversity?

Eat me with duck sauce, Xiacob, you condescending fuckstick.

I'm afraid you'll have to go fuck yourself, CountDeCrankypants, you perpetually raging shitmouth.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 27, 2014, 07:43:28 AM
There's a substantial difference in regional diversity, where ethnic groups are enclaved by history, poverty or politics, but that doesnt mean it's societally diverse.

What do you mean?

Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2014, 10:24:15 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 27, 2014, 07:43:28 AM
There's a substantial difference in regional diversity, where ethnic groups are enclaved by history, poverty or politics, but that doesnt mean it's societally diverse.

What do you mean?

Literally nothing.

I better get my next issue of Chinese Diversity Quarterly on time from you two shitbirds.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 27, 2014, 12:52:44 PM
I better get my next issue of Chinese Diversity Quarterly on time from you two shitbirds.

Go buy your own toilet paper, cheapskate.

Without going through the whole thread, would I be the first to vote for the bar girl culture?

Most likely, yes.
I didn't vote for anything. And I am not going to vote for anything I hardly know.

Quote from: Gups on March 27, 2014, 08:00:17 AM
Silk Road?

Been meaning to go there for ever

Yeah. If you've not been I really recommend it. It's best to book because it's normally really fun.

FM Mangal over the way is a pretty good Turkish restaurant too, if you haven't tried it.