Jacob argued in a post a few days back that getting English as a Danish-speaker was inherently easy, and that once you get an ear for it it's relatively easy to understand even without formal education. I found this difficult to believe, given that I have some difficulty in understanding just about all the Danish I've ever heard even with a reasonably deep linguistic background.
How about romance-language speakers?
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
I found it very easy to speak language flawlessly.
Quote from: DGuller on January 31, 2014, 06:42:02 PM
I found it very easy to speak language flawlessly.
So what happened?
I learned English when I was around 3 so I don't count.
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 06:11:34 PM
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
So would Swedish be easier? Icelandic sounds prmeval to English ears.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 06:11:34 PM
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
So would Swedish be easier? Icelandic sounds prmeval to English ears.
Easier to learn? My guess is yes. Easier for a Swede to learn English? My guess is no.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 31, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
I learned English when I was around 3 so I don't count.
How did you manage to get an econ degree without basic numeracy?
:bleeding: Are you trying to make Boner's ruff joke look good in comparison?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 31, 2014, 07:53:50 PM
:bleeding: Are you trying to make Boner's ruff joke look good in comparison?
You're the one who said you don't count...
Katmai lost all his fingers to frostbite, so he doesn't count either.
All I did was to prepare for the exam. I did a listening session once a week. Wrote an essay once a week. Spoke English in front of the class once a week. Did 2-3 written tests once a week. This went on for 5 years.
I still don't think I've picked up English.
It came Naturally to me.
QuoteAll I did was to prepare for the exam. I did a listening session once a week. Wrote an essay once a week. Spoke English in front of the class once a week. Did 2-3 written tests once a week. This went on for 5 years.
I still don't think I've picked up English.
Sounds like what almost every kid in Japan does.
Yet you know English. They don't. :hmm:
Do you think English's status as a very common/official language in HK helped you out?
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 05:46:53 PM
Jacob argued in a post a few days back that getting English as a Danish-speaker was inherently easy, and that once you get an ear for it it's relatively easy to understand even without formal education. I found this difficult to believe, given that I have some difficulty in understanding just about all the Danish I've ever heard even with a reasonably deep linguistic background.
How about romance-language speakers?
I could believe it. Swedish and Dutch are pretty easy to get a grasp of once you've established the basics. Its just where it goes off into advanced Germanic vocabulary that it becomes tough.
Plus in the case of English its something you have to do. Unlike Swedish and Dutch where using the language is the challenge, not avoiding it.
I am really jealous of people from north europe who speak English as a second language. Its like they got a free foreign language.
When I was at school studying French it always remained something theoretical and abstract. It might as well have been Latin. It had no relevance in life whatsoever. English in the world however....
Understand much English, I speak goodly. Hello Joe, what do you know?
(hopefully MB will get the reference)
It was hammered to me since I was a little kid, so I don't really remember how hard it was back in the day.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 05:46:53 PM
Jacob argued in a post a few days back that getting English as a Danish-speaker was inherently easy, and that once you get an ear for it it's relatively easy to understand even without formal education. I found this difficult to believe, given that I have some difficulty in understanding just about all the Danish I've ever heard even with a reasonably deep linguistic background.
How about romance-language speakers?
Hmm. Hard to say. I learn to speak English at a very young age, due to being exposed to the language at about the time I was starting to speak. Later on we traveled extensively through Ontario and the Maritimes, and once we got cable, I started watching tv to expand my vocabulary.
So, no, it wasn't really hard, but I was kind exposed to the language. It's not like I understood everything at first, but I got the gist of it watching Transformers&GI Joe in English and French later on. Later, it was Star Trek. They had perfect diction, so it wasn't hard. Other shows gave me a hard time though. My first english movie on tv was something about Hulk's return. Didn't get most of it. My second english movie was in a theater, and it was Judge Dredd. I never understood Balboa, I mean Stallone. Even today, I'm having difficulties watching the old Rocky in english due to his and Paulie's accent.
As for the rest, I have trouble with some regional accents in the US and UK, especially where they're not train actors, i.e. people you'd hear in various medias, people calling on a radio/tv show, etc.
So how easy was it to pick up? Not that difficult, as I started young and being in a see of English speakers, there's always a little English somewhere. I was lucky to have good English teachers from the time I started learning English in school to my last years in college. Nearly always native speakers, or people who did most of their studies in English. I think the worst teacher was that guy from Maine. Horrible accent. And I kept correcting his spelling, so it tells you how bad he was :D
As for writing&reading, it was a bit harder. Living in a small town, there's no English library or book store here. Pre-internet days, it was hard to get english books, so only when I was in university (Sherbrooke) and in Ottawa did I get my first English books. But eventually, I picked it up. I'm not up to Brazen's standards, but I think everyone understands me. Most of the time, anyway.
As for other languages, Latin was easy, but Spanish gave me lots of trouble, I only had a C on my introductory class. Then again, it was filled to the brim with people who already spoke Spanish fluently <_<
@PDH:
I like your sig man, but I'm already drunk now! :P
Quote from: viper37 on January 31, 2014, 10:16:55 PM
As for other languages, Latin was easy, but Spanish gave me lots of trouble, I only had a C on my introductory class. Then again, it was filled to the brim with people who already spoke Spanish fluently <_<
Ugh. I had to give up on Spanish for that reason. I couldn't get enough of a foundation because the pacing for the classes was skewed toward the amount of fluent and first-language speakers who took Spanish for easy grades. I scraped by through Spanish I, and failed hard on Spanish II. Twice.
On the front of English speaker learning other language, German was ridiculously easy for me, because I got used to the base similarities right away- hell, beginning sentences in German I were made up of words so close that they just sounded like English with a thick German accent.
I took five years' worth of German, so I can catch the gist of German and languages that share a good amount of similarities like Dutch and some very, very rudimentary Danish.
On the other big Romance languages, I've started again with French, but I'm still at a very, very basic level; nowhere near conversational. And I've just never had the opportunity to dabble with Latin or modern Italian.
I think I've done a pretty good job. Tonitrus said otherwise. It hurt my feelings. :(
QuoteI learn to speak English at a very young age
Tell me more about your perception of time, Dr. Manhattan.
:P
I dunno. Besides, I'm still learning.
Brazen, you said in Brussels that I have kind of an American accent? It may have gotten worse, because people who I meet for the first time occasionally ask me how long I've lived in the U.S. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 12:37:10 AM
I dunno. Besides, I'm still learning.
Brazen, you said in Brussels that I have kind of an American accent? It may have gotten worse, because people who I meet for the first time occasionally ask me how long I've lived in the U.S. :Embarrass:
I don't know how to put this but maybe it is about your... bigger bones?
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 07:10:50 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 06:11:34 PM
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
So would Swedish be easier? Icelandic sounds prmeval to English ears.
Easier to learn? My guess is yes. Easier for a Swede to learn English? My guess is no.
FWIW when I'm watching a Swedish TV program I can hear the majority of words that are being said and could have a go at repeating them. This, however, is not the case when listening to Danish, except for a few basic words.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 01, 2014, 01:45:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 07:10:50 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 06:11:34 PM
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
So would Swedish be easier? Icelandic sounds prmeval to English ears.
Easier to learn? My guess is yes. Easier for a Swede to learn English? My guess is no.
FWIW when I'm watching a Swedish TV program I can hear the majority of words that are being said and could have a go at repeating them. This, however, is not the case when listening to Danish, except for a few basic words.
I felt a weird sense of achievement when I first distinguished between Danish and Swedish in the Bridge :blush:
Very easy, but I had the rare privilege of attending a bilingual school from the age of 3.
German was harder, only starting when I was 12 or so. Its similarity to English made things easier grammar-wise, but the three genders were a bit of a pain in the ass.
Back on topic - I don't think I had much trouble learning English. But somehow it always had the air of "cool" about it that drew me in.
Growing up hanging out with U.S. Army brats sure helped, and sisters marrying GIs probably didn't hurt, either. At the same time I purposefully sought out to read books in English or, when possible, watch movies/TV in English. A lot of computer games were in English when I grew up.
English in school was never much of an issue for me. I do recall going through the grammar, but a lot of it "made sense" to me so I often could fly through tests without having to learn the actual grammatical rules by heart (e.g. stuff like "I've been working" vs. "I've worked" or "I was doing x when y happened." => there's probably an embarrassing error in what I just wrote. :P).
These days, most things I watch/read are in English., be it movies, books or websites. When offered the choice of German vs. English I will always choose English, unless German is the original language of the product.
French was a wholly different beast, though. The vocabulary was harder, everything sounded the same (en vs. on vs. an), the grammar and tenses were a nightmare ... so I only was a B student, even though my tests were always covered in red ink when I got them back.
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 03:50:58 AM
Growing up hanging out with U.S. Army brats sure helped
Did you ever get any play with an American chick?
They see me whalin'.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2014, 04:46:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 03:50:58 AM
Growing up hanging out with U.S. Army brats sure helped
Did you ever get any play with an American chick?
No. They left town when I was 16 and the girls that were there, I think the oldest was 12, maybe? I'm not Siege.
And no, wasn't interested in hooking up with a bored Army wife. :P
You're right. By the Dirty Old Man rule the minimum age for a 16 year old is 15. :nerd:
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 01, 2014, 01:48:22 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 01, 2014, 01:45:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 07:10:50 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 31, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 31, 2014, 06:11:34 PM
Even Danes find it hard to learn Danish. Not a joke.
I find English almost impossible to understand. And trying to express myself is a nightmare.
So would Swedish be easier? Icelandic sounds prmeval to English ears.
Easier to learn? My guess is yes. Easier for a Swede to learn English? My guess is no.
FWIW when I'm watching a Swedish TV program I can hear the majority of words that are being said and could have a go at repeating them. This, however, is not the case when listening to Danish, except for a few basic words.
I felt a weird sense of achievement when I first distinguished between Danish and Swedish in the Bridge :blush:
Danish is a very intuative language I think, we don't really have any pronunciation rules and many words are said so fast that syllables become nothing but a nasal sound.
Also there's no rules for what gender a noun is, but it's no problem for a native because it sounds wrong to say "et hamster" instead of "en hamster".
Quote from: Tyr on January 31, 2014, 08:22:37 PM
QuoteAll I did was to prepare for the exam. I did a listening session once a week. Wrote an essay once a week. Spoke English in front of the class once a week. Did 2-3 written tests once a week. This went on for 5 years.
I still don't think I've picked up English.
Sounds like what almost every kid in Japan does.
Yet you know English. They don't. :hmm:
Do you think English's status as a very common/official language in HK helped you out?
The exam method works for some people. For me, English is a bunch of rules, and I like to obey very specific rules.
English wasn't too hard for me. It's a much simpler (in a good way) and flexible language than Spanish or other romance languages. It's true that as a geek you *had* to learn English to access all the geeky stuff that wasn't published in Spanish, so I was very motivated at the time.
Pronunciation is way trickier, as native speakers don't seem to be able to agree on how stuff needs to be pronounced to begin with.
Quote from: celedhring on February 01, 2014, 09:44:25 AM
English wasn't too hard for me. It's a much simpler (in a good way) and flexible language than Spanish or other romance languages. It's true that as a geek you *had* to learn English to access all the geeky stuff that wasn't published in Spanish, so I was very motivated at the time.
Pronunciation is way trickier, as native speakers don't seem to be able to agree on how stuff needs to be pronounced to begin with.
You're totally right about the utter need of English proficiency as a geek in Spain, back in the day a friend of mine taught himself English by reading AD&D manuals and Marvel comics. :lol:
Quote from: The Larch on February 01, 2014, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 01, 2014, 09:44:25 AM
English wasn't too hard for me. It's a much simpler (in a good way) and flexible language than Spanish or other romance languages. It's true that as a geek you *had* to learn English to access all the geeky stuff that wasn't published in Spanish, so I was very motivated at the time.
Pronunciation is way trickier, as native speakers don't seem to be able to agree on how stuff needs to be pronounced to begin with.
You're totally right about the utter need of English proficiency as a geek in Spain, back in the day a friend of mine taught himself English by reading AD&D manuals and Marvel comics. :lol:
Hehe, I pretty much passed my English exams by studying the Star Wars RPG manuals too.
NERDS
nerdos
Rubbed on the bitch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 03:50:58 AM
French was a wholly different beast, though. The vocabulary was harder, everything sounded the same (en vs. on vs. an), the grammar and tenses were a nightmare ... so I only was a B student, even though my tests were always covered in red ink when I got them back.
Schools in the UK really should stop teaching French. It turns generation after generation utterly off foreign languages.
I think I've learnt my three languages in pretty much the same way - pick up enough of a vocabulary to start reading books and then you're off. I never bothered learning grammar of any sorts, I just wing it.
Quote from: Tyr on January 31, 2014, 08:22:37 PM
When I was at school studying French it always remained something theoretical and abstract. It might as well have been Latin. It had no relevance in life whatsoever. English in the world however....
Seems like the study of English in French school according to critics. :P
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2014, 11:20:32 PM
Schools in the UK really should stop teaching French. It turns generation after generation utterly off foreign languages.
Again, the way the language is taught sounds extremely bad but the English in Paris are not necessarily like like Tyr, specially the girls. ;)
As for me, I never had trouble with marks in English but the real progress for only started after watching on FrenchTV the CBS Evening News the following morning, watching original versions (much easier in Portugal in the '90s), videogames (in the beginning even PAL releases were not translated) and music.
German could have been much better had I picked it earlier over Castilian whose biggest problem for me was trying to avoid mixing it up with Portuguese. Back to German, without Latin, I would be completely lost...
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 03:50:58 AM
French was a wholly different beast, though. The vocabulary was harder, everything sounded the same (en vs. on vs. an), the grammar and tenses were a nightmare ... so I only was a B student, even though my tests were always covered in red ink when I got them back.
Typical German mistake :D Easily explainable by the fewer nasal vowels in German.
I'll grant you
an and
en are pronounced the same most of the time though but not always cf. Le P
en and bl
anc.
Tenses are simpler than in Portuguese, Castilian or Italian, unless it's literary French i.e not the French you're supposed to learn at school. As for grammar, the past participe is a bitch unless you go by the more formall iterary tenses.
Spelling is tough but it's the same in English, if not worse. They imported some Normand spellings which have not evolved since the eleventh century or so, unlike standard French.
Quote from: katmai on February 03, 2014, 05:21:29 AM
And all that was off one coors light. Oy vey.
Doubtful.
QuoteI likwe miller lite!!!!!!!1111
I suppose he could have forgotten what he was drinking. :hmm:
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 12:37:10 AM
Brazen, you said in Brussels that I have kind of an American accent? It may have gotten worse, because people who I meet for the first time occasionally ask me how long I've lived in the U.S. :Embarrass:
:console:
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2014, 12:37:10 AM
Brazen, you said in Brussels that I have kind of an American accent? It may have gotten worse, because people who I meet for the first time occasionally ask me how long I've lived in the U.S. :Embarrass:
My accent on the other hand would be perfect for playing a German officer in a WW2 movie. :ph34r:
Can someone tempban Siege please?
Quote from: Queequeg on February 03, 2014, 12:39:04 PM
Can someone tempban Siege please?
only if we tempban you too. :hug:
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2014, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2014, 12:43:10 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 03, 2014, 12:39:04 PM
Can someone tempban Siege please?
That's silly.
I think a few hours in the drunk tank wouldn't hurt.
Assuming that he's not just trolling, I think his liver might permaban him before too long.
uhhh yeah. I drink fairly often given all the free booze around here, but I can't think of the last time I've actually been drunk. It's probably been at least 10 years.
Actually, those who drink a lot and don't get drunk have a lot more to fear for their liver. Siege will probably die from a drunken accident when he leaves his can of Coors Light open, and the fumes fill the room, but his liver would still be in a very good condition.
I get drunk very easily. Half a glass of champagne will do it. My problem is that I am not exactly sure if this feeling really is what people call getting drunk.
Have you ever made out with an ugly girl?
I get drunk extremely easy, but can still drink a good deal. It's confusing. I'm pretty giddily happy when I'm drunk, and drink so infrequently that whenever I drink drunkeness is pretty much inevitable.
Well, about the original question, it was fairly easy to pick English. Had some basic introduction in elementary scholl (4th grade) with some cartoon videos and songs, than in the 5th grade started regular English classes in school. A few years later it developed with the necessity to understand computer games. This was the main reason, since I was old enough when the cable tv boomed in Portugal to watch Cartoon Network for example.
I believe my accent is fairly decent (towards American) and I can read some stuff in original language (couldn't get past Moby Dick's first couple of pages though). My written English is kind of poor since it's almost 10 years since I needed to write regularly for classes and I never bothered to learn proper grammar since my grades were good enough.
As for Portuguese in general, I believe it's fairly easy to get a decent understanding of English, since we don't do dubbing of English based TV or movies (except for some animated movies and even then there's the original and the dubbed versions in cinemas), because we listen to English music more than Portuguese when compared with our Romance cousins and if you live in Lisbon or Algarve, English kind of is needed in regular conversation almost every week.