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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on January 25, 2014, 01:38:26 AM

Title: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Syt on January 25, 2014, 01:38:26 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/01/the-ancient-ghost-city-of-ani/100668/

QuoteSituated on the eastern border of Turkey, across the Akhurian River from Armenia, lies the empty, crumbling site of the once-great metropolis of Ani, known as "the city of a thousand and one churches." Founded more than 1,600 years ago, Ani was situated on several trade routes, and grew to become a walled city of more than 100,000 residents by the 11th century. In the centuries that followed, Ani and the surrounding region were conquered hundreds of times -- Byzantine emperors, Ottoman Turks, Armenians, nomadic Kurds, Georgians, and Russians claimed and reclaimed the area, repeatedly attacking and chasing out residents. By the 1300s, Ani was in steep decline, and it was completely abandoned by the 1700s. Rediscovered and romanticized in the 19th century, the city had a brief moment of fame, only to be closed off by World War I and the later events of the Armenian Genocide that left the region an empty, militarized no-man's land. The ruins crumbled at the hands of many: looters, vandals, Turks who tried to eliminate Armenian history from the area, clumsy archaeological digs, well-intentioned people who made poor attempts at restoration, and Mother Nature herself. Restrictions on travel to Ani have eased in the past decade, allowing the following photos to be taken.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlantic.com%2Fstatic%2Finfocus%2Fani012414%2Fa01_20110419.jpg&hash=259eba6154e32ed6e6cbf3351fa72c122d13bddd)
The Monastery of the Hripsimian Virgins, in the ruins of the city of Ani, Turkey, on April 19, 2011. The monastery is thought to have been built between 1000 and 1200 AD, near the height of Ani's importance and strength. The Akhurian River below acts as the modern border between Turkey and Armenia.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlantic.com%2Fstatic%2Finfocus%2Fani012414%2Fa02_10110419.jpg&hash=5750b38122a16c4acb203c2e07caf3c49527119c)
Ruins of the Mausoleum of the Child Princes in the Citadel in Ani, on April 19, 2011. Located in the Inner Fortress on Citadel Hill, this structure is thought to have been built around 1050 AD.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlantic.com%2Fstatic%2Finfocus%2Fani012414%2Fa03_23036580.jpg&hash=510fb2d014d33d38361a95fce473a3dde830c1a4)
The ruin of the Church of Saint Gregory of Tigran Honents on the edge of the border with Armenia, in Ani, the now-uninhabited capital of a medieval Armenian kingdom in Kars at the Turkey-Armenia border.

Many more pictures at the link.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 25, 2014, 01:40:27 AM
I came, I saw, I came.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Brain on January 25, 2014, 04:14:54 AM
QuoteMonastery of the Hripsimian Virgins

:huh: :ultra:
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Razgovory on January 25, 2014, 02:47:52 PM
You'd think the Turks would want to spruce it up for the tourist trade.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 25, 2014, 03:11:45 PM
It would mostly be Armenian tourists who'd want to see it and there are... issues there.

I wish I'd known about this place when I lived in Georgia; I might have tried to go see it. The architectural style is identical to that of Georgian churches, but the Georgians have made the very aesthetically questionable decision to repair all of their medieval ruins.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 25, 2014, 03:36:37 PM
IDK if identical is the right word.  Armenians were the artists and arcihtects in Georgia, but Ani was a far more substantial city than any in Georgia even in the time of David the Builder and Tamar the Great.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Bulldoze it.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Ancient Demon on January 26, 2014, 11:11:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 25, 2014, 02:47:52 PM
You'd think the Turks would want to spruce it up for the tourist trade.

They'll convert those ruins into mosques soon enough.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Ed Anger on January 26, 2014, 11:14:16 AM
Quote from: Ancient Demon on January 26, 2014, 11:11:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 25, 2014, 02:47:52 PM
You'd think the Turks would want to spruce it up for the tourist trade.

They'll convert those ruins into mosques soon enough.

Hearing the wails of Spellus would make it worth it.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 26, 2014, 11:32:17 AM
Seljuks did it already.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 26, 2014, 11:40:08 AM
More interesting is to find Minoan ship designs. All the crap I have seen are assumptions that their ship designs were little boats because of how early they developed.
I would like to see which planking method they were using, sail yardage and rigging, keel and hull design, rudder style, etc.

Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 11:46:38 AM
Quote from: Siege on January 26, 2014, 11:40:08 AM
More interesting is to find Minoan ship designs. All the crap I have seen are assumptions that their ship designs were little boats because of how early they developed.
I would like to see which planking method they were using, sail yardage and rigging, keel and hull design, rudder style, etc.

Drunk, meet streetlight. Minoan ships in Ani?
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 26, 2014, 12:51:15 PM
Some kind of Noah's Arc connection?
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 12:57:53 PM
 :rolleyes: Jews don't believe in Noah.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Maximus on January 26, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 26, 2014, 11:40:08 AM
More interesting is to find Minoan ship designs. All the crap I have seen are assumptions that their ship designs were little boats because of how early they developed.
I would like to see which planking method they were using, sail yardage and rigging, keel and hull design, rudder style, etc.
Not that again.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 26, 2014, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Maximus on January 26, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 26, 2014, 11:40:08 AM
More interesting is to find Minoan ship designs. All the crap I have seen are assumptions that their ship designs were little boats because of how early they developed.
I would like to see which planking method they were using, sail yardage and rigging, keel and hull design, rudder style, etc.
Not that again.

Wat u ming?

I don't remember any Minoan ship construction discussion.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
Song what?
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 26, 2014, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
Song what?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaZ33XGV.jpg&hash=1a307a7a072e0406dc06daa8c2c6362ccf0221f3)
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:26:41 PM
So much hateful mirth. :(
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: KRonn on January 27, 2014, 11:11:21 AM
Lots of pictures of impressive ancient ruins there at the link.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: lustindarkness on January 27, 2014, 12:37:50 PM
Some awesome pics there.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 27, 2014, 12:47:12 PM
No Minoan ships, though.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 27, 2014, 01:12:00 PM
So,  Minoan ships, were they like the Phoenician round ships?
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 27, 2014, 01:27:38 PM
What the fuck are you talking about?  Jesus, Siege.  This is fucking central historical Armenia.  It's hundreds of extremely mountainous miles away from the Mediterranean Coast and a thousand fucking kilometers from Crete! 
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Ed Anger on January 27, 2014, 01:28:24 PM
Touchy.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Jacob on January 27, 2014, 01:43:13 PM
Siegy's grasp of geographical realities is about as strong as his understanding of politics.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 27, 2014, 01:47:46 PM
He's an Israeli.  This is like an American not knowing where Canada is.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: lustindarkness on January 27, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Yes, feed the troll.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Ed Anger on January 27, 2014, 01:54:33 PM
Byzantium is boring.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Queequeg on January 27, 2014, 02:22:42 PM
Do we have any evidence that Siege is a troll?  This seems especially incoherent for trolling.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 27, 2014, 02:27:24 PM
Given that agricultural civilization dates back to 5,000 B.C. on Crete, it's clear that God created them there, so they had no need of boats. Later on of course they were attacked and eaten by the boat-borne Sea Peoples, ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Savonarola on January 27, 2014, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 27, 2014, 01:12:00 PM
So,  Minoan ships, were they like the Phoenician round ships?

They were like Atlantian ships with painted sails.  The great Minoan age is but a remnant of the Atlantian culture
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: Siege on January 28, 2014, 12:53:08 PM
Ok, I thought this was a general ancient times thread, since this is the only ancient thread going on right now.
My bad.
Next question.
Why did the Phoenicias survived the sea people invasions unscathed?
Were they part or allied with them?
They certainly went right back to Iberia to control the tin and other metals trade previously controlled by the minoans and briefly by the mycenae.
Title: Re: The Ancient Ghost City of Ani
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 28, 2014, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 28, 2014, 12:53:08 PM
Next question.
Why did the Phoenicias survived the sea people invasions unscathed?
Were they part or allied with them?

No one really knows what happened at the end of the Bronze Age.  What we do know is a bunch of cites in the Levant the Aegean and elsewhere were destroyed within a period of a several decades.  One of those was Ugarit which went from being the premier city of the region to total permanent destruction so it is not was correct that the Phoencians were unscathed.  As to how the destruction happened and who was involved, those are still open questions.  The very notion is of a "sea people invasion" is hypothetical or alternatively just raises a lot more questions about terms.  It is true that Tyre among other Levantine cities appears to have been spared destruction; the same is true of Carchemish and pretty much all of Assyria.