Poll
Question:
Which has had the greater Cultural Impact over the subsequent 50 years?
Option 1: Dr Who TV Series
votes: 10
Option 2: JFK Assassination
votes: 14
Option 3: About equal
votes: 1
Option 4: Don't Know
votes: 2
Option 5: Mongers What Are You Playing At?
votes: 1
Almost exactly 50 years since these two events happened, so which do you think has had the greater Cultural influence; I'm not asking about the political or social impact, just the cumulative cultural effect.
JFK, blown away, what else do I have to say?
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
OK JFK wins in the song lyrics field, what about areas?
edit:
I guess I already knew that, as I posted a song title in the thread title. :D
Fuck Daleks. Sleestaks FTW. Hiss hiss, baby.
How the hell do you a compare a single incident of international importance, with a piece of ongoing pop culture that only started in 1963?
Don't pay him any mind; it's only because Mongers has no frame of reference. If Attlee had been the one that got ventilated, he'd be all Sympathy for the Devil about it.
I shouted out, "Who killed Clement Attlee"
When after all it was you and me
Quote from: Barrister on November 21, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
How the hell do you a compare a single incident of international importance, with a piece of ongoing pop culture that only started in 1963?
Did you miss the cultural only comment, you know books, films, plays etc. :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2013, 02:59:50 PM
Don't pay him any mind; it's only because Mongers has no frame of reference. If Attlee had been the one that got ventilated, he'd be all Sympathy for the Devil about it.
I shouted out, "Who killed Clement Attlee"
When after all it was you and me
Point of reference?
Quote
A crowded Main street, the scene was set
They check out the view, turn the radio on
Open the case, assemble the gun
Wait at the ready, for the president's run
The world was shocked that fateful day (*)
A young man's life was blown away, away
Dallas, 1 p.m., 1 p.m.
White hot lead, in the back of the head
Screaming confusion, shots rip the air
Cadillac racing, cops on the run
[. From: http://www.elyrics.net .]
They couldn't believe the president's hit
The shooting's done, assassins run
Is he dead, no one will say
Around the world, the news was flashed
We sat and watched your tragic history
(Repeat *)
The world was shocked
In Dallas, 1 p.m.
We sat and watched
Tragic history
The world was shocked
In Dallas, 1 p.m.
JFK's death marked the end of an era. Dr. Who is pretty much a niche product.
If you believe the BBC it's a no holes barred win for Doctor Who; JFK gets a showing of a rather lacklustre Kennedy drama series and over the next couple of days we get wall-to-wall Dr Who, besides it's on special programmes, it's shoe-horned into everything from chatshows to quiz/panel games. :bleeding:
The question of whether you remember where you were when JFK was shot has become irrelevant for a great many people who were not even alive at the time of the event. The Dr. is going stronger than ever. By Monger's measure the Dr. is the clear winner.
JFK, tho after most of the Boomers die it will be Dr. Who.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 21, 2013, 03:33:48 PM
JFK, tho after most of the Boomers die it will be Dr. Who.
Maybe once the Boomers go we'll get some interesting cultural stuff about Kennedy. Instead of the Kennedys (:bleeding:) and JFK, which is at least entertaining and well done.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 21, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 21, 2013, 03:33:48 PM
JFK, tho after most of the Boomers die it will be Dr. Who.
Maybe once the Boomers go we'll get some interesting cultural stuff about Kennedy. Instead of the Kennedys (:bleeding:) and JFK, which is at least entertaining and well done.
Yeah, it's not an especially good choice.
I'm trying to find/remember the name of the Oswald film/tv series that made him largely explicable.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 21, 2013, 03:33:48 PM
JFK, tho after most of the Boomers die it will be Dr. Who.
After the millennials die it will be Kennedy again.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 21, 2013, 03:55:46 PMAfter the millennials die it will be Kennedy again.
Dr Who's a kids show though. The fans are younger than us.
I heard recently a description of the generation being anyone born between Reagan and 9/11, which was what I was going by.
Dr. Who sucks.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 21, 2013, 05:25:51 PM
Dr. Who sucks.
Overall no, but parts of it do rather suck, a lot is somewhat average and yet here and there, amongst the classic and the modern, are a few gems.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishfromfriends.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2Fdisagree.jpg&hash=4bc00bb2c073f2ac0330510df4dabad7380c8bdd)
Dr. Who is PBS dead air filler bullshit.
And don't forget the death of C.S. Lewis. :sleep:
Quote from: Camerus on November 21, 2013, 07:09:33 PM
And don't forget the death of C.S. Lewis. :sleep:
If ever a man's been ruined by his fans :weep:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2013, 06:41:25 PM
Dr. Who is PBS dead air filler bullshit.
Americans hate what they dont understand
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 21, 2013, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2013, 06:41:25 PM
Dr. Who is PBS dead air filler bullshit.
Americans hate what they dont understand
Given how moronic much of the recent series' of Doctor Who have been (and this is a fan saying this) I think it's unlikely that CdM doesn't understand it.
If I want to watch shitty British television on PBS, I'll stick to Masterpiece Theatre and one of the 3,000 iterations of Wuthering Heights.
Saturday night was 2 Monty Python episodes and the shitburger that is Dr. Who.
Is Wuthering Heights the one where the girl marries the guy? I have a hard time keeping them separate.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 21, 2013, 08:24:08 PM
Saturday night was 2 Monty Python episodes and the shitburger that is Dr. Who.
Yup. After Saturday Night Live was off the air, all that was left of the wasteland of terrestrial television were some informercials, some pre-Sunday churchifying bullshit and Dr. Who. :shudder:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2013, 02:54:27 PM
Fuck Daleks. Sleestaks FTW. Hiss hiss, baby.
No shit, young folks. :rolleyes:
Quote from: mongers on November 21, 2013, 02:13:26 PM
Almost exactly 50 years since these two events happened, so which do you think has had the greater Cultural influence; I'm not asking about the political or social impact, just the cumulative cultural effect.
Couldn't ever get into Dr. Who. I rate it with that other crappy show, Babylon 5.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 21, 2013, 08:56:16 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 21, 2013, 02:13:26 PM
Almost exactly 50 years since these two events happened, so which do you think has had the greater Cultural influence; I'm not asking about the political or social impact, just the cumulative cultural effect.
Couldn't ever get into Dr. Who. I rate it with that other crappy show, Babylon 5.
:lol:
I'm sorry, I have to join the other Americans in not getting Dr. Who. Though I do admit I've never made a good-faith attempt to get into it, or really watched more than a single episode at a time. That said, I do have American friends who are bananas for it, and get frequent mystifying Dr. Who crap in my Facebook.
BUT: I love "Doctorin' the Tardis," the KLF/Timelords' amazing/amazingly successful Gary Glitter rip-off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YA0Uq2wXM Having two separate drummers performing along to a drum-machine is a stroke of genius.
On the other hand, I don't remember where I was when JFK was killed. :hmm:
I was still on my home planet
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 21, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
BUT: I love "Doctorin' the Tardis," the KLF/Timelords' amazing/amazingly successful Gary Glitter rip-off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YA0Uq2wXM Having two separate drummers performing along to a drum-machine is a stroke of genius.
Since the Jimmy Saville (Edit: and Gary Glitter) stories it's impossible for a Brit to watch things like that without a horrid sense of foreboding :(
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 21, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
I'm sorry, I have to join the other Americans in not getting Dr. Who. Though I do admit I've never made a good-faith attempt to get into it, or really watched more than a single episode at a time.
It always struck me as one of those shows you either had to be watching since the beginning, or at least make an attempt to follow it for several episodes.
It was built like a soap opera. And sorry, Brits, but for a show they broadcast here once a week at 1am, with no readily definable beginning or ending, or even fucking plot lines, that just wasn't going to cut it. Just confusing and boring as shit. And the production value sucked balls; it was all crappy analog sound stage video or that shitty British outdoor filming. Only thing missing was the laugh track from "Last of the Summer Wine". Snooze.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 21, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 21, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
BUT: I love "Doctorin' the Tardis," the KLF/Timelords' amazing/amazingly successful Gary Glitter rip-off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YA0Uq2wXM Having two separate drummers performing along to a drum-machine is a stroke of genius.
Since the Jimmy Saville (Edit: and Gary Glitter) stories it's impossible for a Brit to watch things like that without a horrid sense of foreboding :(
Well, the worst thing the KLF ever did was burn £1,000,000 on Jura, not rape children, of course.
EDIT: And I like how frank they've been admitting to being idiots with the whole stunt and really regretting it. :lol:
My momma cried
When President Kennedy died.
They said he was a Communist,
But we knew better.
Hard to say, really. The Kennedy assassination had tremendous political impact, absolutely, but I'm not sure it really had all that much cultural impact. Doctor Who had and continues to have a huge impact on British culture, but zero cultural impact in America--even now that it's somewhat popular in America, it's just a show that happens to be somewhat popular but doesn't have any real impact.
Well it's definitely all about Dr Who rather than JFK in Britain. Even the conspiracy theories are about Dr Who, the silliest one being that the BBC have 90 'lost' episodes ready to be restored and released over the next few years.
I think given photos of both, more Brits would be able to identify a Dalek over JFK.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 21, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 21, 2013, 03:33:48 PM
JFK, tho after most of the Boomers die it will be Dr. Who.
After the millennials die it will be Kennedy again.
The millenials are the one generation least influenced by doctor who since they're the generation who were at their peak Who-suseptability during the Wholess years of the 90s and 00s.
Quote from: Tyr on November 22, 2013, 06:49:48 AM
The millenials are the one generation least influenced by doctor who since they're the generation who were at their peak Who-suseptability during the Wholess years of the 90s and 00s.
Infancy?
Dr. Who is extremely obscure in Germany, whereas Kennedy and his assassination are very well known facts. Most bigger Germany cities will have a road or place named for Kennedy.
It was shown in the Catalan TV when I was a kid, and it was a moderate hit over here. It was one of my favorite shows as a kid; given how scary it was compared to other children share we got offered at the time. The new batch is shown over here too, but the ratings are very marginal and I don't think it has much following outside cult status.
Personally I don't think it has aged that well, the cheesier sci-fi aspects of it were passable 20+ years ago, but they stand out like sore thumbs in this day and age. But I'm not in the age group anymore, I'm sure I'd love it if I were 12 again.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 21, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
I'm sorry, I have to join the other Americans in not getting Dr. Who. Though I do admit I've never made a good-faith attempt to get into it, or really watched more than a single episode at a time. That said, I do have American friends who are bananas for it, and get frequent mystifying Dr. Who crap in my Facebook.
Ditto.
JR was great, Cliff Barnes totally rocked the loser stuff, and Bobby melted our hearts.
Quote from: Brazen on November 22, 2013, 05:07:31 AM
I think given photos of both, more Brits would be able to identify a Dalek over JFK.
I guess Brits are still holding a grudge about Kennedy pere.
Bobby went on to make a Brady Bunch rehash that my sister always insisted on watching. :thumbsdown:
Monstrous.
Quote from: Brazen on November 22, 2013, 05:07:31 AM
I think given photos of both, more Brits would be able to identify a Dalek over JFK.
Sadly true. :blush:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 22, 2013, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: Brazen on November 22, 2013, 05:07:31 AM
I think given photos of both, more Brits would be able to identify a Dalek over JFK.
I guess Brits are still holding a grudge about Kennedy pere.
Doubtful; I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a pointless Pointless* answer.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointless_(game_show) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointless_(game_show))
Google plays for Dr. Who. <_<
My wife votes for Daleks. Today, she asked me why LHO wanted JFK dead, but when we were in Seattle, she wanted to go in the EMP museum solely because it had a Dalek on the sign.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 23, 2013, 12:46:31 AM
My wife votes for Daleks. Today, she asked me why LHO wanted JFK dead, but when we were in Seattle, she wanted to go in the EMP museum solely because it had a Dalek on the sign.
:D
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 21, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
I'm sorry, I have to join the other Americans in not getting Dr. Who. Though I do admit I've never made a good-faith attempt to get into it, or really watched more than a single episode at a time. That said, I do have American friends who are bananas for it, and get frequent mystifying Dr. Who crap in my Facebook.
Just to come back to this, how and why is Dr Who popular in America? When did this happen? :blink:
It seems really weird for some reason.
QuoteI think given photos of both, more Brits would be able to identify a Dalek over JFK.
Yeah and they'd recognise both over any PM before Thatcher (Churchill excepted).
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 10:25:39 AM
Just to come back to this, how and why is Dr Who popular in America? When did this happen? :blink:
I don't think it is really popular. It is a nerd culty sort of thing.
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 10:25:39 AM
Just to come back to this, how and why is Dr Who popular in America? When did this happen? :blink:
I don't think it is really popular. It is a nerd culty sort of thing.
Yeah that's what I've seen.
I think it also fits in with a certain strain of pop-cultural Anglophilia that you find in America these days, at least at the "cult favorite" level.
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 10:25:39 AM
Just to come back to this, how and why is Dr Who popular in America? When did this happen? :blink:
I don't think it is really popular. It is a nerd culty sort of thing.
It's gained some level of "popularity" because all things nerdy have gained some level of social acceptability.
Inspector Spacetime > Doctor Who.
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
Quote from: frunk on November 25, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
Is this for real? Graham Chapman? Stephen Fry? Christopher Lee? WTF? And I have never heard of this?
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
Quote from: frunk on November 25, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
Is this for real? Graham Chapman? Stephen Fry? Christopher Lee? WTF? And I have never heard of this?
No, it isn't.
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
Quote from: frunk on November 25, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
Is this for real? Graham Chapman? Stephen Fry? Christopher Lee? WTF? And I have never heard of this?
You've never heard about it because you don't watch Community. :P
Quote from: garbon on November 25, 2013, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
Quote from: frunk on November 25, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
Is this for real? Graham Chapman? Stephen Fry? Christopher Lee? WTF? And I have never heard of this?
No, it isn't.
Ok whew. I thought so.
Quote from: The Larch on November 25, 2013, 01:11:50 PM
You've never heard about it because you don't watch Community. :P
If it is on NBC it doesn't exist.
Quote from: celedhring on November 22, 2013, 10:34:42 AM
It was shown in the Catalan TV when I was a kid, and it was a moderate hit over here. It was one of my favorite shows as a kid; given how scary it was compared to other children share we got offered at the time. The new batch is shown over here too, but the ratings are very marginal and I don't think it has much following outside cult status.
Personally I don't think it has aged that well, the cheesier sci-fi aspects of it were passable 20+ years ago, but they stand out like sore thumbs in this day and age. But I'm not in the age group anymore, I'm sure I'd love it if I were 12 again.
Same here, it was shown in Galician TV during the 80s, the Tom Baker era, the one with the scarf. If you watch one of those episodes now you can't dismiss the terrible terrible production values, but through the eyes of a child those things matter less. I recently watched some of the more modern ones, the ones with Christopher Eccleston, and they were ok, but hardly breathtaking. It's a textbook niche and cult show.
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 25, 2013, 01:11:50 PM
You've never heard about it because you don't watch Community. :P
If it is on NBC it doesn't exist.
Your loss, they've had some great shows the last few years.
Quote from: The Larch on November 25, 2013, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 25, 2013, 01:11:50 PM
You've never heard about it because you don't watch Community. :P
If it is on NBC it doesn't exist.
Your loss, they've had some great shows the last few years.
That was a joke :P. I fully intend to watch Community someday when I have the time.
Only one of them wore a scard?? :blink:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
Only one of them wore a scard?? :blink:
Only Tom Baker had the scarf:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mindpollution.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2Ftom-baker.jpg&hash=253186086ad648cae28ccab3e729758a2756b21a)
He was the longest reigning Doctor and so the scarf is usually associated with Dr. Who.
I asked about the scard dammit. :mad:
Out of curiosity I tried looking for a particular Doctor Who story that I remembered watching as a kid, with robotic mummies roaming the English countryside and managed to find it. "Pyramids of Mars", from 1975. I started rewatching it, and I must say that it seems better than I expected, the story is engaging, slightly Lovecraftian, although some parts are atrocious, namely the design of the mummies themselves.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dbutler22.freeserve.co.uk%2Fdwpom2.jpg&hash=63328ba67afa654f67c8343312141ea9e2f240ce)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_ZNUdpril8U4%2FTQbRMmegicI%2FAAAAAAAADdY%2FxY1IxUhigGE%2Fs1600%2Fvlcsnap-2010-12-12-19h19m28s75.jpg&hash=ae3c42488340dd400117054af8263ee1d5ac11a3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SWLVeNZfvuU%2FUVtraeytqyI%2FAAAAAAAAKY0%2F9niqSL__7ac%2Fs400%2F183693.jpg&hash=7bd2b7083806d621c59e1ba060591e13fc857afc)
Set budget: £15
It always looked like it was filmed with Soviet surplus cameras.
There are actually some nice exterior shots in a country house.
Quote from: The Larch on November 25, 2013, 06:10:24 PM
Out of curiosity I tried looking for a particular Doctor Who story that I remembered watching as a kid, with robotic mummies roaming the English countryside and managed to find it. "Pyramids of Mars", from 1975. I started rewatching it, and I must say that it seems better than I expected, the story is engaging, slightly Lovecraftian, although some parts are atrocious, namely the design of the mummies themselves.
I watched mostly the Baker and Davison era Doctor Who. I thought they had consistently good stories; but, yes, the special effects weren't very special.
"Pyramids of Mars", one of Tom Baker's best stories. Before his interpretation of the Doctor went "Over the Top".
I bought that on VHS many years ago. It benefits immensely from being co-written (read, heavily rewritten) by Robert Holmes, one of the best writers of old-series Doctor Who (one of the top three, definitely.) He also created the Autons and the Sontarans, two of the more popular Alien species introduced on the show.
Such a good writer, in fact, that he was called in to write Peter Davison's swan-song story; "The Caves of Androzani" really showcases the difference in quality between the writers of the Sixties and Seventies and the duds they had in the Eighties, so much so that this story has been voted in at least one poll as the best Dr. Who serial ever! If only the rest of Peter Davison's stories had been half or even a third as good... :(
My favorite Doctor Who episodes:
Planet of the Spiders
Pyramids of Mars
Brain of Morbius
Robots of Death
Mine:
WOTS ALL THIS THEN?
My Telly is on the fritz!
Is it a candy or a sweet?
Quote from: frunk on November 25, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Inspector Space Time Wiki (http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki)
:lmfao: Now that's hilarious. I'll now share that with all my friends and look clever.
Since no-one asked, my favourite episode is
The Talons Of Weng-Chiang.
Quote from: Valmy on November 25, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2013, 10:25:39 AM
Just to come back to this, how and why is Dr Who popular in America? When did this happen? :blink:
I don't think it is really popular. It is a nerd culty sort of thing.
Even that just happened with the reboot.