http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/07/health/fda-trans-fats/index.html?sr=fb110713transfatfda1015a
QuotePut down that doughnut: FDA takes on trans fats
(CNN) -- So long, frozen pizza: Artificial trans fat in foods may eventually become a thing of the past.
The Food and Drug Administration on Thursday took a first step toward potentially eliminating most trans fat from the food supply, saying it has made a preliminary determination that a major source of trans fats -- partially hydrogenated oils -- is no longer "generally recognized as safe."
If the preliminary determination is finalized, according to the FDA, then partially hydrogenated oils will become food additives that could not be used in food without approval. Foods with unapproved additives cannot legally be sold.
Trans fat can be found in processed foods including desserts, microwave popcorn products, frozen pizza, margarine and coffee creamer, and has been linked to an increased risk of heart disease.
What is trans fat?
The majority of trans fat is formed when hydrogen is added to liquid oils, making them into solid fat such as shortening or margarine. It increases the shelf life and the flavor of foods.
Like saturated fat, trans fat and dietary cholesterol can also raise blood levels of LDL, or "bad" cholesterol, which increases the risk of heart disease.
Trans fat is found in processed foods made with partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, according to the Food and Drug Administration. Those include crackers, cookies, snack foods, fried foods and some baked goods.
Partially hydrogenated oil is formed when hydrogen is added to liquid oils to make solid fats, like shortening and margarine. It increases the shelf life and the flavor of foods. Partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, or shortening, was used in American kitchens as early as 1911.
However, in recent years many food manufacturers have taken steps to limit or eliminate trans fat from their products.
McDonald's, for instance, stopped cooking its french fries in trans fat more than a decade ago. The company's website says all its fried menu items are free of trans fat.
New York City in 2007 adopted a regulation banning partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and spreads in restaurants.
"Through our efforts at product reformulation and the development of suitable alternatives, trans fats that are not naturally occurring have been drastically reduced in the food supply," the Grocery Manufacturers Association, which represents more than 300 food, beverage and consumer product companies, said in a prepared statement.
"Since 2005, food manufacturers have voluntarily lowered the amounts of trans fats in their food products by over 73%."
Trans fat intake among American consumers decreased from 4.6 grams per day in 2003 to about a gram a day in 2012, according to the FDA.
However, "current intake remains a significant public health concern," FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg said in a written statement.
There is no safe level of consumption of trans fat, Hamburg said. It has been shown to raise the "bad," or LDL, cholesterol.
Other countries are also working to reduce trans fat in the food supply. Policies in Brazil, Costa Rica, Denmark, the Netherlands, South Korea and the United States have proved effective over the past two decades, the World Health Organization said in April. The WHO has called for eliminating trans fat from the global food supply.
Trans fat occurs naturally in:
Milk
Butter
Cheese
Beef
Lamb
Pork
Chicken
Hidden trans fat:
If a product contains less than .5 grams of trans fat per serving, the FDA says it can be labeled as trans fat-free. Here are some products that may have hidden trans fat:
Pancake mixes
Flavored coffee creamers
Microwave popcorn
Pie crusts
Gravy mixes
Shakes or creamy drinks
Buffalo or BBQ sauces
Croutons
Fried foods
Hot chocolate
Cereal
The FDA has opened a 60-day comment period on the determination "to collect additional data and to gain input on the time potentially needed for food manufacturers to reformulate products that currently contain artificial trans fat should this determination be finalized," the agency said.
There are two phases to the process, FDA officials said Thursday. The agency will evaluate the comments and evidence received during the comment period.
"If we finalize our conclusion, then we are inviting comments from industry on what would be an appropriate phaseout," said Michael Taylor, the agency's deputy commissioner for foods.
"The timeline would be based on the comments we get. Given the public health impact, we want to move as quickly as we can."
The National Restaurant Association noted in a statement the industry's "tremendous strides" in reducing or eliminating trans fats.
"We plan to discuss the impact of this proposal on the industry and submit comments, and we will continue to work with our members and the manufacturing supply chain to address any new federal standards that may arise out of this process," said Joan McGlockton, the association's vice president of industry affairs and food policy.
Hamburg called Thursday's move "an important step toward protecting more Americans from the potential dangers of trans fat."
The American Heart Association and the Center for Science in the Public Interest were among those praising the move.
"The scientific evidence is clear -- eating food with trans fat increases production of 'bad' cholesterol, which is a risk factor for heart disease," the AHA said.
So what should consumers do in the meantime? Choose products that have the lowest combined amount of saturated fat, cholesterol and trans fat, the FDA said.
Under current regulations, companies can claim their food has 0 grams of trans fat if the food contains less than 0.5 grams of trans fat per serving, according to Mical Honigfort, a consumer safety officer at the FDA. But if partially hydrogenated oil is listed in the ingredients, there may still be a small amount of trans fat present.
Nancy Brown, the Heart Association's CEO, said she hopes the FDA goes a step further and revises labels for foods that are trans fat free.
The preliminary determination was based on "available scientific evidence and the findings of expert scientific panels," the FDA said.
The determination covers only partially hydrogenated oils, not trans fat that naturally occurs in some meat and dairy products. Trans fat is also present at very low levels in other edible oils, such as fully hydrogenated oils, where it is "unavoidably produced during the manufacturing process," according to the FDA.
Avoiding foods containing artificially produced trans fat could prevent 10,000 to 20,000 heart attacks and 3,000 to 7,000 coronary heart disease deaths each year, according to one study from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"Artificial trans fat is a uniquely powerful promoter of heart disease, and today's announcement will hasten its eventual disappearance from the food supply," said Michael Jacobson, the Center for Science in the Public Interest's executive director. "Not only is artificial trans fat not safe, it's not remotely necessary. Many companies, large and small, have switched to healthier oils over the past decade. I hope that those restaurants and food manufacturers that still use this harmful ingredient see the writing on the wall and promptly replace it."
Syt, do you have an opinion about this ? :)
Monstrous.
Crazy!
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
I think here you are hard pressed to buy foods without them.
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
I think here you are hard pressed to buy foods without them.
Really, interesting contrast.
As far as I'm aware there's no legislation against them, just consumer pressure, government health messages and supermarkets advertisings products as not containing them.
"Safe" has a tendency to fall on our heads.
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
Do you think food products should not be regulated?
Quote from: The Brain on November 07, 2013, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 07, 2013, 03:05:26 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
Do you think food products should not be regulated?
Goodbye blueberries. :(
There is nothing wrong with most batches of blueberries. :mad:
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 07, 2013, 03:05:26 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
Do you think food products should not be regulated?
Nah, I just have a role to play around here. :sleep:
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
It's the only sensible solution to human stupidity and weakness.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 03:34:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
It's the only sensible solution to human stupidity and weakness.
Is not being an expert on every intimate detail of every single food item for sale really an indication of stupidity?
KFC hasn't been the same since they got rid of trans fats
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2013, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 03:34:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Nanny state to the rescue! :)
It's the only sensible solution to human stupidity and weakness.
Is not being an expert on every intimate detail of every single food item for sale really an indication of stupidity?
I read labels.
The Democrat attitude is "everyone is stupid but me."
The Republican attitude is "everyone is evil but me."
They both suck. :sleep:
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
I read labels.
Yeah, ok. I have things to do and lack the time to spend hours researching everything I have contact with.
Well I don't.
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2013, 05:29:11 PM
The Democrat attitude is "everyone is stupid but me."
The Republican attitude is "everyone is evil but me."
They both suck. :sleep:
I think some other people are evil, not stupid.
And I need a nanny state to protect me from my foolishness. Have you seen how I've lived my life?
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
I read labels.
Yeah, ok. I have things to do and lack the time to spend hours researching everything I have contact with.
It takes you hours to read five or ten package labels? What, do you mean over the course of a lifetime? :lol:
No, I have to, to make sure they're not made with animal products. -_-
I started taking better care of my health this summer (lost 10 lbs since then) and have generally avoided most transfats since they are almost universally condemned by medical practitioners. Would prefer to see them eliminated as far as possible.
One of the biggest sources of transfats in most people's diets nowdays is margarine.
Ironically, when I was a kid, most nutritional experts recommended margarine as being better for you than butter.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on November 07, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
I started taking better care of my health this summer (lost 10 lbs since then) and have generally avoided most transfats since they are almost universally condemned by medical practitioners. Would prefer to see them eliminated as far as possible.
Agreed. The biggest thing I find annoying is that transfats are still very prevalent in stuff that doesn't have visible nutrition labels, like store-made pastries.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:48:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
I read labels.
Yeah, ok. I have things to do and lack the time to spend hours researching everything I have contact with.
It takes you hours to read five or ten package labels? What, do you mean over the course of a lifetime? :lol:
No, I have to, to make sure they're not made with animal products. -_-
To actually understand the implications of each ingredient? Sure.
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:09:59 PM
Syt, do you have an opinion about this ? :)
T.I.M.M.A.Y. Newscorp, Ltd. pays me for news stories posted, not for my opinions. :P
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2013, 11:26:00 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:48:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
I read labels.
Yeah, ok. I have things to do and lack the time to spend hours researching everything I have contact with.
It takes you hours to read five or ten package labels? What, do you mean over the course of a lifetime? :lol:
No, I have to, to make sure they're not made with animal products. -_-
To actually understand the implications of each ingredient? Sure.
Fat: evil, protein: good, carbohydrates: chaotic neutral. Easy.
Health tips according to Ide. :lol:
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 08:32:43 AM
Health tips according to Ide. :lol:
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2013, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 08:32:43 AM
Health tips according to Ide. :lol:
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
I'll defer to you, I've never had a chat with a squirrel.
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
I think here you are hard pressed to buy foods without them.
Really, interesting contrast.
As far as I'm aware there's no legislation against them, just consumer pressure, government health messages and supermarkets advertisings products as not containing them.
Based on the amount of "OMG WE PUT HEALTHY STUFF INTO EVERYTHING AND MCDONALDS IS USING FREE RANGE CHICKENS" BS I see going around in the UK, my money on you consuming some pretty big amount of trans fats without even being told about it.
Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2013, 11:22:02 PM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on November 07, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
I started taking better care of my health this summer (lost 10 lbs since then) and have generally avoided most transfats since they are almost universally condemned by medical practitioners. Would prefer to see them eliminated as far as possible.
Agreed. The biggest thing I find annoying is that transfats are still very prevalent in stuff that doesn't have visible nutrition labels, like store-made pastries.
:lol:
Quote from: Tamas on November 08, 2013, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
I think here you are hard pressed to buy foods without them.
Really, interesting contrast.
As far as I'm aware there's no legislation against them, just consumer pressure, government health messages and supermarkets advertisings products as not containing them.
Based on the amount of "OMG WE PUT HEALTHY STUFF INTO EVERYTHING AND MCDONALDS IS USING FREE RANGE CHICKENS" BS I see going around in the UK, my money on you consuming some pretty big amount of trans fats without even being told about it.
You are right. You guys are having horse daily without knowing it.
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 09:02:09 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2013, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 08:32:43 AM
Health tips according to Ide. :lol:
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
I'll defer to you, I've never had a chat with a squirrel.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smileyvault.com%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10172%2Faug08_031.gif&hash=a5248032d532f0e417bff033cbafdcc70693a61f)
K, gramps.
Quote from: Tamas on November 08, 2013, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
I think here you are hard pressed to buy foods without them.
Really, interesting contrast.
As far as I'm aware there's no legislation against them, just consumer pressure, government health messages and supermarkets advertisings products as not containing them.
Based on the amount of "OMG WE PUT HEALTHY STUFF INTO EVERYTHING AND MCDONALDS IS USING FREE RANGE CHICKENS" BS I see going around in the UK, my money on you consuming some pretty big amount of trans fats without even being told about it.
:huh:
You can take the Hungarian out of Hungary, but ......
Actually it seems like we're slightly ahead of the average on this health issue, with the US trailing a bit; turns out six years ago many of the major supermarkets decided to eliminate them from their own products.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314753.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314753.stm)
I know from experience it's hard to find them as an added ingredient in foods I buy.
That's not to say there aren't problems with restaurant and hot take-away food, which don't need to state the ingredients in their products.
But it's hardly the picture you paint.
Actually I'd forgotten that Bloomberg had used clout to eliminate trans fats in NYC restaurants.
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 09:14:50 PM
Actually I'd forgotten that Bloomberg had used clout to eliminate trans fats in NYC restaurants.
Yeah, the rest of America seems to now be moving in the 'right direction', this week the FDA coming out against it and a couple of days ago I saw a health item/infomercial about them on ABC news.
Little known fact - Adam was going to call the squirrel a "tree rat" until grumbler convinced him it should have a unique name.
Sounds like a myth. Grumbler convinced somebody of something?
he he
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 08:18:29 PM
K, gramps.
Now you did it. Grumbler is gonna follow his normal pattern & inexplicably call you old. Even though you're not. But somehow that will make him feel better.
And now you're "piling on." :D
Quote from: Ideologue on November 08, 2013, 10:34:27 PM
Sounds like a myth. Grumbler convinced somebody of something?
:XD:
So, more regulations and more gobitmenrt intrusion in on our lives.
I don't want the govermant to teel me what I cam eat.
Quote from: Siege on November 09, 2013, 10:12:12 PM
So, more regulations and more gobitmenrt intrusion in on our lives.
I don't want the govermant to teel me what I cam eat.
Nah, let's leave that to some 2000+ year old rumor instead.
Quote from: sbr on November 10, 2013, 10:27:16 AM
Quote from: Siege on November 09, 2013, 10:12:12 PM
So, more regulations and more gobitmenrt intrusion in on our lives.
I don't want the govermant to teel me what I cam eat.
Nah, let's leave that to some 2000+ year old rumor instead.
Hey, when a burning bush tells you to not eat pork or shellfish you better damn well not eat them.
Shellfish. :yucky:
Shellfish is awesome.
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Many food producers have taken trans fats out of their products. Labels will often say something like "Trans fats = 0" to stress the fact.
Quote from: KRonn on November 10, 2013, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Many food producers have taken trans fats out of their products. Labels will often say something like "Trans fats = 0" to stress the fact.
Yeah, I think this is an overall plus point.
Now they just need to be influenced to cut unnecessary sugar/salt and see if their products can stand on the merits of their 'natural' taste alone?
Quote from: Siege on November 09, 2013, 10:12:12 PM
So, more regulations and more gobitmenrt intrusion in on our lives.
I don't want the govermant to teel me what I cam eat.
How do you feel about spelling regulations?
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2013, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 09, 2013, 10:12:12 PM
So, more regulations and more gobitmenrt intrusion in on our lives.
I don't want the govermant to teel me what I cam eat.
How do you feel about spelling regulations?
Enough of your Liverul trickery!
:lol:
Quote from: KRonn on November 10, 2013, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Many food producers have taken trans fats out of their products. Labels will often say something like "Trans fats = 0" to stress the fact.
Except they can have up to .5 grams/serving and still claim "0". Plenty of stuff out there with "partially hydrogenated whatever" in the ingredients, but say they have zero trans fats.
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Really, interesting contrast.
As far as I'm aware there's no legislation against them, just consumer pressure, government health messages and supermarkets advertisings products as not containing them.
That contrast doesn't exist so much I don't think, garbon is just mistaken. The vast majority of processed foods no longer contain trans fat, the manufacturers have either quietly phased them out or explicitly advertise the product does not contain trans fat. Since the mid-2000s trans fat content is down 74% I think all of the big time fast food chains and many of the other big casual dining chains have publicly said they no longer use trans fats.
The areas where you still see a lot of them are in baked goods. Trans fats became popular for both structural and price reasons, partially hydrogenated oils have a really good profile in terms of melting/burning point and etc that make them especially well suited for certain specific applications. It really doesn't hurt a McDonald's much to advertise they are phasing trans fats out--they actually never used that much of them and anywhere they did use them, fried food and etc can easily and economically be made with 0 trans fat. Baked goods it's going to be more of a challenge because you can't just remove the partially hydrogenated oils from the recipe and keep everything else the same. Large scale bakers will more or less have to completely retool their process and do millions of dollars in testing to get the flavor correct.
Outside of baked goods, microwave popcorn is also a major source of trans fat, and only the Orville Redenbacher brand (of the major brands) is made without trans fat. One of their reps mentioned in a news article the other day that because of the different consistency and burn/melting point of the substitute it took them a really long time to replace their butter substitute that had trans fat in it with one that doesn't, as they had issues with oozing and burning from say, regular butter. The company mentioned that it cost millions of dollars and took about six years to successfully find a replacement that didn't contain trans fat and they also added "and we aren't saying how we did it" because obviously they want their competitors to expend a similar amount of resources on their own efforts.
But it's the large scale bakers and the other popcorn brands that'll have the most difficulty because their products are made in large factories and parts of the process will have to be retooled if you swap out an ingredient with different physical characteristics. The stuff like the Kroger bakery products should probably be easier to phase trans fats out of, because while a lot of their stuff is made to a standard recipe they still have fully functional bakeries in those stores. They aren't reprogramming or rearranging an assembly line, but instead are just mailing out new baking instructions to their stores.
Quote"and we aren't saying how we did it" because obviously they want their competitors to expend a similar amount of resources on their own efforts.
The vaunted efficiency of the market.
:mellow:
Oh, come on. Cop.
WTF are you talking about? It's a perfect example of the profits from R&D leading to a superior outcome for consumers. How can you possibly misconstrue this as a case of market inefficiency?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
WTF are you talking about? It's a perfect example of the profits from R&D leading to a superior outcome for consumers. How can you possibly misconstrue this as a case of market inefficiency?
To my mind, performing that R&D three or four times because of proprietary industrial processes that cost millions of dollars to develop seems a mite wasteful.
Point taken. But the only alternatives are eating trans fat loaded popcorn or waiting your whole life for the People's Design Bureau to figure it out.
Mmm, popcorn from the People's Popcorn Factory #3. :mmm:
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 10, 2013, 06:47:39 PM
Quote from: KRonn on November 10, 2013, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Many food producers have taken trans fats out of their products. Labels will often say something like "Trans fats = 0" to stress the fact.
Except they can have up to .5 grams/serving and still claim "0". Plenty of stuff out there with "partially hydrogenated whatever" in the ingredients, but say they have zero trans fats.
One big problem is that the food industry lobby has too much power. They sway decisions, lobby Congress and influence the FDA too much and is likely why such exclusions exist.
Quote from: KRonn on November 10, 2013, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
You'd be hard pressed to buy a food ingredient or product with transfats in it over here.
Though I've no idea what the situation is with restaurant food/eating out.
Many food producers have taken trans fats out of their products. Labels will often say something like "Trans fats = 0" to stress the fact.
And often they will lie. You can claim 0 grams of trans fats when you have less than 0.5 grams per serving, which can still add up to a shitload of trans fats.
Hey I heard that a label can say 0 trans fats but still have up to .5 grams a serving. Can anyone confirm?
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2013, 11:06:08 PM
Hey I heard that a label can say 0 trans fats but still have up to .5 grams a serving. Can anyone confirm?
I just posted that immediately above. Can't you fucking read?
That's called "rounding".
Quote from: DGuller on November 10, 2013, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2013, 11:06:08 PM
Hey I heard that a label can say 0 trans fats but still have up to .5 grams a serving. Can anyone confirm?
I just posted that immediately above. Can't you fucking read?
Can you?
Only Luddites actually read posts instead of having their computer read it to them.
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2013, 11:17:52 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 10, 2013, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2013, 11:06:08 PM
Hey I heard that a label can say 0 trans fats but still have up to .5 grams a serving. Can anyone confirm?
I just posted that immediately above. Can't you fucking read?
Can you?
Camerus is back! :w00t:
No, he's "Canadian". :huh:
And he never left.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2013, 09:23:58 PM
Point taken. But the only alternatives are eating trans fat loaded popcorn or waiting your whole life for the People's Design Bureau to figure it out.
You nailed it.
These mothefuckers need to learn how life was in soviet Russia.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 10, 2013, 09:19:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
WTF are you talking about? It's a perfect example of the profits from R&D leading to a superior outcome for consumers. How can you possibly misconstrue this as a case of market inefficiency?
To my mind, performing that R&D three or four times because of proprietary industrial processes that cost millions of dollars to develop seems a mite wasteful.
It's not neccesarily bad to research the same thing from several different angles, maybe the first solution found isn't the best one and another team looking into it can find a better option.
You also need to protect the R&D investment and its possible benefits through some form of intellectual property rights.
So how bad are trans fats for you, really? I eat a fair amount of microwave popcorn (especially those 100-calorie bags), not much baked goods.
Better for us than cigarettes, I assume. -_-
Well, they're legal to sell to minors.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 11, 2013, 12:00:18 PM
Well, they're legal to sell to minors.
I thought this was making them illegal for everyone.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 11, 2013, 11:41:04 AM
So how bad are trans fats for you, really? I eat a fair amount of microwave popcorn (especially those 100-calorie bags), not much baked goods.
They do mean things. They lower HDL while increasing LDL. When combined with other fats they make things even worse, some researchers say the saturated fat studies were flawed simply because the saturated fats were tested in conjunction with trans fats - which made the cholesterol results even worse.
It is not nanny state to ban them, non-naturally occurring trans fats harm the body.
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2013, 12:02:16 PM
I thought this was making them illegal for everyone.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Quote from: PDH on November 11, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 11, 2013, 11:41:04 AM
So how bad are trans fats for you, really? I eat a fair amount of microwave popcorn (especially those 100-calorie bags), not much baked goods.
They do mean things. They lower HDL while increasing LDL. When combined with other fats they make things even worse, some researchers say the saturated fat studies were flawed simply because the saturated fats were tested in conjunction with trans fats - which made the cholesterol results even worse.
It is not nanny state to ban them, non-naturally occurring trans fats harm the body.
Isn't that the definition of nanny statism? :unsure:
Sometimes you have to be pragmatic. There is no good reason to not wear a seat belt, but out of inertia, misinformation, or machismo, many people wouldn't if given the choice. You can either adopt a fundamentalist approach to the principle of no nanny-statehood of any kind, or you can save tens of thousands of people from themselves every year.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 11, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
Quote from: PDH on November 11, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 11, 2013, 11:41:04 AM
So how bad are trans fats for you, really? I eat a fair amount of microwave popcorn (especially those 100-calorie bags), not much baked goods.
They do mean things. They lower HDL while increasing LDL. When combined with other fats they make things even worse, some researchers say the saturated fat studies were flawed simply because the saturated fats were tested in conjunction with trans fats - which made the cholesterol results even worse.
It is not nanny state to ban them, non-naturally occurring trans fats harm the body.
Isn't that the definition of nanny statism? :unsure:
well, BANNING trans fats is nanny-statism. Forcing producers to inform the customer about the actual level of transfats and other materials used, is not.
I don't know. Banning a substance that has been found to be quite harmful when ingested is simple sense. Nanny state attitudes have a morality function to them, at least how I see it. This is an additive that research has shown to be harmful to the human body.
Quote from: PDH on November 11, 2013, 12:52:11 PM
I don't know. Banning a substance that has been found to be quite harmful when ingested is simple sense. Nanny state attitudes have a morality function to them, at least how I see it. This is an additive that research has shown to be harmful to the human body.
well, yeah, I guess.