Two questions:
1) I started a 5-gallon batch of Vienna Lager last night. This morning, there are zero bubbles in the airlock. Can I just pitch another packet of yeast into the pail? Is there another option?
2) I have yet to make a decent batch of hard cider. It doesn't seem that hard (pitch yeast into room-temp cider, add airlock, rack in two weeks, bottle in four), and yet... it's hasn't gone that well for me so far. What am I missing?
You need to speak to the apples in a gentle West Country accent as you butcher them. :bowler:
I don't know anything about cider, but for #1 I'd let it go another day. Maybe give your fermenter a good shaking to "wake up" the yeast.
But I have to ask-- are you using actual lager yeast? If so, do you have your fermenter in a refrigerator or somewhere else where the temperature is steadily in the 45-55F degree range? Lager yeast needs colder temps to ferment. If you're using ale yeast, it should ferment fine at room temperature.
Quote from: derspiess on October 21, 2013, 09:30:11 AM
I don't know anything about cider, but for #1 I'd let it go another day. Maybe give your fermenter a good shaking to "wake up" the yeast.
But I have to ask-- are you using actual lager yeast? If so, do you have your fermenter in a refrigerator or somewhere else where the temperature is steadily in the 45-55F degree range? Lager yeast needs colder temps to ferment. If you're using ale yeast, it should ferment fine at room temperature.
Yeah, it's lager yeast, and it did say that it needs to be cold. I managed to get it down to 70F to pitch the yeast, and I think that's where it's still at. I don't have a dedicated fridge for it. I suppose I can set it outside for the next two weeks. It's in an air-tight, sealed pail, so I imagine it will be fine.
Or... I can peruse Craig's List for a small, apartment fridge. :hmm:
I've never brewed a lager but IIRC lager yeasts are a lot less vigorous than ale yeasts, so it makes sense that you might not see any activity yet.
Alos, what about your hard cider do you think makes it not decent?
I was lucky the one time I did a lager (way back when I was in college) that my parents' garage that winter stayed right at 50F almost all the time.
I'd recommend trying to find a small fridge-- the outdoors method may not give you perfect results.
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:03:19 AM
I've never brewed a lager but IIRC lager yeasts are a lot less vigorous than ale yeasts, so it makes sense that you might not see any activity yet.
Alos, what about your hard cider do you think makes it not decent?
Dunno. It just tastes ... off. Watery, sour... off.
Quote from: derspiess on October 21, 2013, 10:07:19 AM
I was lucky the one time I did a lager (way back when I was in college) that my parents' garage that winter stayed right at 50F almost all the time.
I'd recommend trying to find a small fridge-- the outdoors method may not give you perfect results.
Already on it. :cool:
http://chambana.craigslist.org/app/4140379421.html
Robin Yount and Paul Molitor were unavailable for this thread.
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:03:19 AM
I've never brewed a lager but IIRC lager yeasts are a lot less vigorous than ale yeasts, so it makes sense that you might not see any activity yet.
Alos, what about your hard cider do you think makes it not decent?
Dunno. It just tastes ... off. Watery, sour... off.
I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.
Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ?
Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Dunno. It just tastes ... off. Watery, sour... off.
:hmm: Do you want it to taste like commercial hard cider? I'm asking because I think most of that stuff is sweetened and/or has apple juice added post-brewing.
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 10:15:33 AM
I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.
Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ?
Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.
I have made hard cider, and it was so long ago I only vaguely remember the process, but I
think I used champagne yeast as well. I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:18:05 AM
I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something. :hmm:
Did you tow it to Earth orbit and mine it? :w00t:
:hmm:
Yes. :)
Wow.
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 10:15:33 AM
I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.
Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ?
Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.
We used Lalvin EC - 1118, which is a wine yeast. I'm not keen on using champagne yeast, since I don't overly care for the bubbling aspect of it, but if this doesn't work, I may give it a go.
We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:18:05 AM
I have made hard cider, and it was so long ago I only vaguely remember the process, but I think I used champagne yeast as well. I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something. :hmm:
Yeah, the Lalvin EC - 1118 is my go-to for most of my meads, so it's what I used on the cider. We'll see how it turns out this time.
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 10:32:48 AM
We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.
When I did hard cider I got
unpasteurized cider with no preservatives. It's illegal in Massachusetts but the orchard guy sold it to me under the table--it had just been made illegal because some dumbass drank some of it straight and died from an e.coli infection. Nanny state to the rescue :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:42:36 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 10:32:48 AM
We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.
When I did hard cider I got unpasteurized cider with no preservatives. It's illegal in Massachusetts but the orchard guy sold it to me under the table--it had just been made illegal because some dumbass drank some of it straight and died from an e.coli infection. Nanny state to the rescue :cool:
Yeah, it's illegal here, too, to sell in the stores, but apparently the orchard will sell it "privately" if you ask. I didn't bother. I've read that unpastuerized is better for complexity of taste, but isn't really essential for the actual brewing process. Lemme get it to taste okay before I worry about "complexity". ;)
Was just reading up on Bog Myrtle.
Oh yeah..... Ed, you should get your vineyard to work on something with this stuff for you. :D
Quote
Parts used: Fresh or recently dried branches, leaves and nut cones.
Aroma & taste: The leaves of Bog myrtle are astringent, balsamic, bitter,
with a strong, not unpleasant, rather spicy aroma.
Brewing method: The leaves of Bog myrtle are used for
their bittering and aromatic actions and should be boiled as
with hops. The nut cones contains delicate and volatile
resins which have a strong vasodilating action, as well
as narcotic and stupefying properties. Because the resins
dissolve more readily in alcohol, some of the fresh herb should
be added to the fermenter to work with the alcohol that the yeast
produce during fermentation.
My family has been buying unpasteurized cider from a place in my mom's hometown for decades. My teetotalling grandma even liked to put an extra gallon or two at the back of the fridge-- it acquired a small but noticeable carbonation and a slight tingle of alcohol if you let it go for a little while.
Spontaneous fermentation FTW.
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 10:32:48 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 10:15:33 AM
I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.
Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ?
Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.
We used Lalvin EC - 1118, which is a wine yeast. I'm not keen on using champagne yeast, since I don't overly care for the bubbling aspect of it, but if this doesn't work, I may give it a go.
We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.
Quote from: Caliga on October 21, 2013, 10:18:05 AM
I have made hard cider, and it was so long ago I only vaguely remember the process, but I think I used champagne yeast as well. I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something. :hmm:
Yeah, the Lalvin EC - 1118 is my go-to for most of my meads, so it's what I used on the cider. We'll see how it turns out this time.
You are suffering from the popular misconception regarding champagne yeast. Modern champagne yeast is the primary yeast used for red wine fermentation; it's a neutral-tasting hybrid yeast that works very well at a wide range of temperatures, and is quite vigorous. If used in secondary fermentation, it contributes to a very fine carbonation, akin to nitrogen forced carbonation, in the bottle.
Your lager is too warm if it's at 70 degrees. You have to keep it below 65 for a week in primary, and once you bottle it, you have to bring it up to about 70 for it to properly carbonate, then chill the bottles ever after, if, of course, you're bottle conditioning.
Quote from: Scipio on October 21, 2013, 11:19:54 AM
You are suffering from the popular misconception regarding champagne yeast. Modern champagne yeast is the primary yeast used for red wine fermentation; it's a neutral-tasting hybrid yeast that works very well at a wide range of temperatures, and is quite vigorous. If used in secondary fermentation, it contributes to a very fine carbonation, akin to nitrogen forced carbonation, in the bottle.
No, I'm telling you what my personal experiences are after having used champagne yeast in both meads and ciders. :) I don't particularly care for it.
QuoteYour lager is too warm if it's at 70 degrees. You have to keep it below 65 for a week in primary, and once you bottle it, you have to bring it up to about 70 for it to properly carbonate, then chill the bottles ever after, if, of course, you're bottle conditioning.
Okay, thanks. That's good to know. The fridge will help, I think. The guy is going to call me this evening with the dimensions, which are, hopefully, big enough for the pail and the glass carboy. And yeah, I'll be bottle conditioning with priming sugar.
Coincidentally just had this drop in my inbox a few minutes ago:
Quote
Weston's Cider
Halloween is coming, if you're planning a party, we have 20% off all orders of
our 500ml bottle cases, but get your order in as the offer ends at midnight on
Halloween.
http://www.westons-direct.co.uk/Shop/SPECIAL-OFFERS/ (http://www.westons-direct.co.uk/Shop/SPECIAL-OFFERS/)
:hmm:
:mmm:
I hosted about 10 people at my house yesterday to make ciders, meads, lager, and cordials. They're all coming over again in two weeks to rack their stuff, and I'm planning to make a Grut then (using bog myrtle, which is harder to find than anticipated). Two weeks after that, I'm having everyone back again to bottle their stuff. THAT day I'm going to do up a five-gallon batch of Holiday Spiced Ale using a Scotch Ale kit and some oranges, cloves, and grains of paradise.
I may use orange flavoring instead of actual oranges, though, because I'm worried the citrus acid will cause an off flavor. Anyone played with that in ales?
After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. :(
You realize that a lot of us are at work, right? :sleep:
Brewing. Waiting.
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 02:27:02 PM
After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. :(
I asked a brewing group on Facebook, and they suggested orange zest instead of actual orange juice. Now, to determine amount of zest per 5-gallon bucket of wort....
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 21, 2013, 02:27:02 PM
After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. :(
I asked a brewing group on Facebook, and they suggested orange zest instead of actual orange juice. Now, to determine amount of zest per 5-gallon bucket of wort....
Mark Knopfler would be disappointed. :(
I know nothing about brewing. But I cook and bake a fair bit, so this may help.
I'd use zest (probably with a peeler given the amount you'll need for beer) because that contains the aromatic oils of the fruit. So the flavour and smell will come across with that better. Don't use any of the white pith because it's extremely bitter and the source of the pectins which make it great for jam or marmalade but my do something weird to beer. From baking I know you should add it towards the end of the kneading process because there are some acids in it that would retard yeast-gluten working to form a structure.
Don't know how that works with beer but you'd want to add it once the yeast is already active I suspect.
Don't know about quantity but for what it's worth I'd use about one orange's zest in a hefty stew.
Thanks, Sheilbh! :)
After doing a bit of research on a bunch of brewing forums I've concluded that the following will bring the best results:
* Use about a softball-sized pile of zest for a 5-gallon batch (around five large oranges)
* Add it as soon as you turn the heat off the wort, then cool the wort as quickly as possible. Once cool, strain the zest out.
* Don't shred the zest. Instead, julienne it.
I'll let you all know how it goes.
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 09:01:28 PM
* Don't shred the zest. Instead, julienne it.
:o I'd also julienne for a stew.
Meri, send me some of that so I can verify if it is good or not.
Address:
PDH
Laramie, Wyoming
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 21, 2013, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 09:01:28 PM
* Don't shred the zest. Instead, julienne it.
:o I'd also julienne for a stew.
Apparently, brewing beer with orange is a lot like making stew with it. :hug: :D
Quote from: PDH on October 21, 2013, 09:14:15 PM
Meri, send me some of that so I can verify if it is good or not.
Address:
PDH
Laramie, Wyoming
K
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 09:01:28 PM
Thanks, Sheilbh! :)
After doing a bit of research on a bunch of brewing forums I've concluded that the following will bring the best results:
* Use about a softball-sized pile of zest for a 5-gallon batch (around five large oranges)
* Add it as soon as you turn the heat off the wort, then cool the wort as quickly as possible. Once cool, strain the zest out.
* Don't shred the zest. Instead, julienne it.
I'll let you all know how it goes.
Second point is always a good idea. A heat exchanger is a worthwhile investment.
Could you use an ice bath? (As I would with any green veg accompanying said stew :P)
Quote from: derspiess on October 21, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
Second point is always a good idea. A heat exchanger is a worthwhile investment.
I have access to a copper wort chiller, but they make me nervous. They're so hard to get completely clean. :ph34r:
Quote from: merithyn on October 21, 2013, 09:44:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 21, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
Second point is always a good idea. A heat exchanger is a worthwhile investment.
I have access to a copper wort chiller, but they make me nervous. They're so hard to get completely clean. :ph34r:
True, and that's where you have the most exposure to potential bacteria & whatnot. But they also save time, and time is a factor in that as well.
The homemade ginger beer is fantastic! Perfect amount of fizz, great flavor, refreshing, and tasty!
Gonna' have to make some to bring home for Thanksgiving. Not that they'll appreciate it. :rolleyes:
Eh, so I have all the stuff and I'm going to try making some mead.
I figure that's an easy way in and hard to screw up, but hey I can always find a way.
I've got some EC-118, a 6 gallon brew pail and some carboys and several s-shaped airlocks, which I will fill with vodka. Just to keep anything from getting gummy or smelly.
Since you people did this before, I should ask. About what percentage of total volume should be honey? I've seen on youtube anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3, and that's a big difference. I think I'll forego any fruit on round one. But I still want to get a nice high measure on the hydrometer. I want to push the yeast's tolerance if possible. Do I do that by adding sugars or yeast? I don't want to make it too sweet in the end. As little as I can, really. What should I aim for on the hydrometer at the start, and should I intervene at any point in the fermentation?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 19, 2014, 07:33:33 AM
Eh, so I have all the stuff and I'm going to try making some mead.
I figure that's an easy way in and hard to screw up, but hey I can always find a way.
I've got some EC-118, a 6 gallon brew pail and some carboys and several s-shaped airlocks, which I will fill with vodka. Just to keep anything from getting gummy or smelly.
Since you people did this before, I should ask. About what percentage of total volume should be honey? I've seen on youtube anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3, and that's a big difference. I think I'll forego any fruit on round one. But I still want to get a nice high measure on the hydrometer. I want to push the yeast's tolerance if possible. Do I do that by adding sugars or yeast? I don't want to make it too sweet in the end. As little as I can, really. What should I aim for on the hydrometer at the start, and should I intervene at any point in the fermentation?
I like medium-sweet meads with a high alcohol content. So, using EC-1118 in five gallons, I would go with 20-23 pounds of honey. That yeast will get you to around 18%, which means it will use a LOT of honey up. If you want a sweeter mead, up it to 25-28 pounds.
That yeast will also give you a "sparkling" effect, so make sure you cork the bottles well. Also, I've had to let it sit for a good long while before bottling it to make sure that it wasn't too volatile at the end. I think I racked it after a month, and then bottled it after another two months.
I never add additional sugars to my meads. The honey is plenty. That being said, I know quite a few people add "starters" to their meads to get their yeast going. You really won't need that with the yeast you're using. (I've used that yeast to restart a batch when it's gone cold too soon.) Also, you'll want to keep the bucket in a cool place. If it gets too warm (over 65 or 70F), the mead will take on a "scorched" flavor from the yeast being too volatile.
What kind of honey are you using? And are you planning to boil it?
EDIT: Looking over some of my old notes, I'd go with a higher honey content rather than a lower one unless you want your mead incredibly dry. No less than 23 pounds of honey, I'd guess. If you do want it very dry, then stick to 20 pounds.
On the Hydrometer, I'd say you want it around 1.08 - 1.10 with that yeast for a drier mead. Also, make sure that your must is around 75F - 80F when you take the reading, or it will skew your results. (Don't pitch that yeast above 80F, either.)
Gracias Meri. I don't have the honey yet. Looking around, it seems like it's an arm and a leg to ship that in bulk, so I was thinking of hitting up Costco or someplace to see if they had it. My choices might be limited because of that. I imagine using different types can significantly affect the flavor, but since this is my first run I don't know what that will be. I suppose I'll just have to pick what I can find and experiment. I have enough equipment to give it another go after I rack the first batch, so I'll probably play around with it a bit.
MiM, when I did blackberry mead I too used EC-1118 and I did 20 pounds of honey.
Quote from: Caliga on August 20, 2014, 05:55:25 AM
MiM, when I did blackberry mead I too used EC-1118 and I did 20 pounds of honey.
What did it taste like? I don't want to go too far down the honeybrick road if you know what I mean. I like it a bit...drier.
Quote from: Caliga on August 20, 2014, 05:55:25 AM
MiM, when I did blackberry mead I too used EC-1118 and I did 20 pounds of honey.
What kind of blackberry flavoring did you use? I forget if it was a flavoring or the actual berries.
If it was the berries, remember that that's added sugar.
Berries. I added them after the sugar was mostly fermented out. It didn't seem to start up a secondary ferment, maybe due to the already high alcohol content.
Probably. Did you have much honey flavor in that?
MOAR BEER TALK PLZ
I have a caramel stout that needs to be bottled. :)
:thumbsup:
I got 25lbs of clover honey and got it rolling. My trusty huge stock pot barely held all that plus less than an equal amount of water. My hydrometer was literally bobbing around on the surface. So I cooked up some water and put enough in there to get it to 1.14, which the calculator says should get me through with the yeast I have. There is about six gallons of liquid now.
I wanted to do a baseline sort of brew, but I did add a teaspoon of vanilla extract. Maybe I ruined it. We'll see.
Now, the container is sitting on the kitchen floor with a valve full of vodka in it.
Sounds reasonable enough to me. :)
Okay, so I put this stuff in the thing at the beginning of the month. I have been watching the valve. It sped up over time and was putting out about ten glugs per minute of air bubbles. Now it's down to four or so. Is that ok? I suspect I'll want to rack it at the end of September, but if it's not done maybe I should inject more yeast. I'm not sure. I guess a hydrometer check might tell me for certain, but I don't want to upset it yet.
Bumpity.
I still have this damn stalled batch of must here, and the hydro readings have only decreased from 1.14 to 1.10. Since October.
I've tried re-pitching, adding some cut up oranges and blackberries and also re-pitching with rehydrated yeast that the packet says to do at 40C. That's over 100 degrees! This thing has been sitting in the mid 60s Fahrenheit and I thought that wasn't a problem. But maybe it is. PH meter reads 5.54. Should I quit it and start over? It tastes fine...but sweet like candy. Personally, I hate it. But someone might like it.