The Norgyites are out and the coalition of the Vikingites and Slargosites are in power. Coverage upcoming.
Slargos must be pleased.
What are the most likely immediate and long term results of the change in gov't?
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 01:20:35 PM
Slargos must be pleased.
What are the most likely immediate and long term results of the change in gov't?
so far...
the foundation of a private state owned investment company to build infrastructure in norway funded by the oil fund
24 age limit for family reunions
confinement for certain refused refugees
friendlier attitude to Israel, slightly lower taxes, slightly less wealth distribution, more oil exploration, better US relations
Better EU relations, more money spent on the elderly, less on social losers.
Most important issue for me though, the Slargosites agreed to not spend money like drunken sailors. (unless it is through the infrastructure investment fund)
Good for Norway.
Quote from: Viking on September 30, 2013, 01:17:58 PM
The Norgyites are out
:weep:
Quotethe coalition of the Vikingites and Slargosites are in power. Coverage upcoming.
:bleeding:
Quotemore money spent on the elderly, less on social losers.
:bleeding: <_<
Fiscal Conservatives and Populists form government.
Social Conservatives and Liberals choose not to join, but agree to support the government and the parties have agreed to a formal arrangement.
Does this mean that Peace Prizes will start to become less retardo?
Peace Prize will remain unchanged. The committee has to be unanimous. So it's not a political issue, but rather a systematic one.
Social Conservative leader argues for agreement on the ground that achieve more than they did during the last 8 years of opposition. It seem the Social Conservative leadership wanted in, but their membership didn't want to sit next to the Populists.
They also got some guarantees for Farm Subsidies.
Liberals got more money for schools, more public transport and HOLY SHIT ending exploration in major sectors of the norwegian sea. That was pretty fucking big.
Edit: There are good reasons why I don't vote liberal.
Populists seem to have learned from the radical left from the previous government and aren't trying to present every issue as a victory for themselves and have pointed out that they have had to give in on substantial issues. I think this is gonna be their mantra for the next 4 years for every issue where they said they had easy solutions while in opposition.
They may be the smartest Populists out there... if there is such a thing as a smart populist.
This is a surprising development. I guess it's been long enough that the sympathy vote from the island massacre wasn't there anymore.
Quote from: Neil on September 30, 2013, 02:26:19 PM
This is a surprising development. I guess it's been long enough that the sympathy vote from the island massacre wasn't there anymore.
Basically the socialists have been making big promises for 8 years now and they haven't really been delivering.
It's primarily so young Turkish immigrants can't go back to the village in the old country and marry someone and bring them into the country. If it makes life more difficult for other immigrant types... ah well, too bad.
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 03:50:47 PM
It's primarily so young Turkish immigrants can't go back to the village in the old country and marry someone and bring them into the country. If it makes life more difficult for other immigrant types... ah well, too bad.
Do you mean that if an immigrant to Norway marries someone from the old country, by law the spouse must be 24 or younger in order to immigrate legally to Norway?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 30, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 03:50:47 PM
It's primarily so young Turkish immigrants can't go back to the village in the old country and marry someone and bring them into the country. If it makes life more difficult for other immigrant types... ah well, too bad.
Do you mean that if an immigrant to Norway marries someone from the old country, by law the spouse must be 24 or younger in order to immigrate legally to Norway?
That is what the law will be, this is how it is denmark right now.
Right now in norway, within certain groups of pakistani immigrants (they came as immigrants not refugees), the marriage rate for spouses requiring immigration visas is over 80%. It is basically a society which never integrates since it is perpetually made up of 2nd generation immigrants. The issue of forced and arranged marriages comes into it when girls as young as 18 go "home" on vacation and find themselves forced into a marriage with a cousin to get that cousin a visa to norway. The boys are married off to barefoot kitchenbound girls from, as a english pakistani friend of mine said, the worst part of pakistan.
It's an easy way to game the system and it is abused.
Hmmm. That was not my understanding and I am conflicted about the new law.
If that's what Norway wants, let them have it. Any sane immigration policy should be written to weight the interests of the host country over those of the immigrants.
Also, I don't understand how an age cap mitigates the abuses you described Puff.
Quotemore money spent on the elderly, less on social losers.
:bleeding: <_<
[/quote]
In Denmark the more money to the elderly never manifested, it was always traded of for anti-immigrant solutions. But then in Denmark the populists where never formally in government.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 30, 2013, 04:06:47 PM
Hmmm. That was not my understanding and I am conflicted about the new law.
That's basically it, though. It's all about preventing young brown immigrants from marrying young brown immigrants from their home countries. It's quite explicit in the debate. There are - if it's like Denmark, and it seems the law is modelled on the Danish one - exceptions if "the combined attachment of the couple is greater to Norway/Denmark than to another country." So if, say, a young Norwegian or Danish fellow wants a young mail-order bride, as long as she spends a bit of time in-country first the law won't stop that as his 100% attachment and her 5% adds up alright. But if an immigrant want to marry someone from "back home" then that's no good until they're older.
As Viking says, it's in the name of integration and protecting young people from being forced into arranged marriage; because clearly it's the best tool for achieving those ends.
It's a minimum age then, not a maximum?
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 07:47:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 30, 2013, 04:06:47 PM
Hmmm. That was not my understanding and I am conflicted about the new law.
That's basically it, though. It's all about preventing young brown immigrants from marrying young brown immigrants from their home countries. It's quite explicit in the debate. There are - if it's like Denmark, and it seems the law is modelled on the Danish one - exceptions if "the combined attachment of the couple is greater to Norway/Denmark than to another country." So if, say, a young Norwegian or Danish fellow wants a young mail-order bride, as long as she spends a bit of time in-country first the law won't stop that as his 100% attachment and her 5% adds up alright. But if an immigrant want to marry someone from "back home" then that's no good until they're older.
As Viking says, it's in the name of integration and protecting young people from being forced into arranged marriage; because clearly it's the best tool for achieving those ends.
Are there any other requirements? And how is the attachment measured?
Austria requires prospective family members moving here to attend a basic course in German and about life in Austria before they come here (to counter the habit of importing shut in (secondary/tertiary) wives who rarely leave the apartment, and if they do, only in the company of male family members).
Quote from: Syt on September 30, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 07:47:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 30, 2013, 04:06:47 PM
Hmmm. That was not my understanding and I am conflicted about the new law.
That's basically it, though. It's all about preventing young brown immigrants from marrying young brown immigrants from their home countries. It's quite explicit in the debate. There are - if it's like Denmark, and it seems the law is modelled on the Danish one - exceptions if "the combined attachment of the couple is greater to Norway/Denmark than to another country." So if, say, a young Norwegian or Danish fellow wants a young mail-order bride, as long as she spends a bit of time in-country first the law won't stop that as his 100% attachment and her 5% adds up alright. But if an immigrant want to marry someone from "back home" then that's no good until they're older.
As Viking says, it's in the name of integration and protecting young people from being forced into arranged marriage; because clearly it's the best tool for achieving those ends.
Are there any other requirements? And how is the attachment measured?
Austria requires prospective family members moving here to attend a basic course in German and about life in Austria before they come here (to counter the habit of importing shut in (secondary/tertiary) wives who rarely leave the apartment, and if they do, only in the company of male family members).
There's a Citizen test with obscure historical questions and the like. But that's not until you've lives in Denmark long enough to qualify for citizenship, that test comes with a danish course but I'm not sure The course is mandatory. There's used to be a rather hefty demand on the personal wealth and size of accommodation of the receiving danish national.
Quote from: schaksen on September 30, 2013, 11:23:09 PM
There's a Citizen test with obscure historical questions and the like. But that's not until you've lives in Denmark long enough to qualify for citizenship, that test comes with a danish course but I'm not sure The course is mandatory. There's used to be a rather hefty demand on the personal wealth and size of accommodation of the receiving danish national.
Austria has that, too. But what I meant is more along the lines, "Here's some basic German to get you through the day. Oh, and: we drink alcohol, love pork, and you may see folks dressed immodestly. Also: women and men have equal rights."
Quote from: Viking on September 30, 2013, 01:27:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 30, 2013, 01:20:35 PM
Slargos must be pleased.
What are the most likely immediate and long term results of the change in gov't?
so far...
the foundation of a private state owned investment company to build infrastructure in norway funded by the oil fund
24 age limit for family reunions
confinement for certain refused refugees
When will the camps be opening?
The way family reunions have been used and abused in France (polygamy, plain illegal immigration) gives weight to the Danish and Norwegian approach.
It's not like they are really family members anyways in lots of cases with the easy bribing in the Third World.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 30, 2013, 04:23:09 PM
Also, I don't understand how an age cap mitigates the abuses you described Puff.
Because 18 year old kids can be bullied by their parents in way that 24 year olds cannot. If I understand the proposal correctly both must be 24 and they must have a means of support in norway, basically a job. 24 year old bachelorettes are rare in rural pakistan and single working young women are the most integrated part of norwegian-pakistani society (procter hoc stuff aside).
Quote from: schaksen on September 30, 2013, 04:26:13 PM
Quotemore money spent on the elderly, less on social losers.
:bleeding: <_<
In Denmark the more money to the elderly never manifested, it was always traded of for anti-immigrant solutions. But then in Denmark the populists where never formally in government.
Denmark doesn't have Norway's oil money. The problem in norway has always been how to spend it without causing inflation.
Quote from: Syt on September 30, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
Are there any other requirements? And how is the attachment measured?
The conditions at present are Marriage, Cohabitation for two years, Dependents under 18 years and Dependents over 18 years with special needs. Marriage is sufficient for attachment in Norwegian Law.
The proposal is to raise the bar to 24 years of age for Marriage and Cohabitation.
A Quick Summary of the norwegian perspective on what will change
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fartid%3D10152313
QuoteImmigration
Introduce two types of reception centers; integration point for those who are waiting for municipality and return centers for individuals and families with a final rejection. The latter will be more foreigners deprived of their liberty, that will be placed in closed reception, and there is no goal to integrate them into the Norwegian society.
More efficient processing. Faster return of persons without legal residence, as well as criminals. These should be entered so-called "Quick File". Incoming return agreements with several countries.
Introduce mandatory Norwegian test and a test in civics for anyone seeking Norwegian citizenship.
Reducing the penalties for expulsion of foreigners who have been punished for criminal acts in the country of the conditions for Norwegian and imprisonment for five years or more. Today comes this ten years or more.
More extensive DNA testing in connection with family reunification.
Asylum children and their families can be caused by a one-time amnesty. The child's best interests shall weigh heavier in cases where the child has lived in Norway for several years, given that the return to the country of origin is not an option.
Privatization
Opens up for increased privatization. Businesses will increasingly be owned by private operators.
Transport
Several roads. The infrastructure in Norway to be improved markedly with more construction of roads and railways, and the funding of this happening outside the framework of the National Transport Plan.
Toll proportion of new road projects will be lower.
Improved public transport in big cities.
Preparedness and Justice
Several police officers. The crew shall be increased.
Increased national emergency.
Sex-purchase law will be evaluated.
Economy
The guideline remains unchanged. Money is used to continuously adapted to the economic situation and the increased use of oil money should go to education and research, infrastructure and tax breaks.
Reduced wealth tax and inheritance tax.
The minimum deduction from salaries increased so that it should pay to work for more.
Better tax credits for housing savings for young people (BSU).
Family Policies
Paternity leave is maintained, but reduced from 14 to ten weeks.
One benefit to women who give birth to children who have not earned the right to parental benefit is maintained. Today is it in for about 7,000 dollars.
Health
Statutory rights to nursing home placement "with a view to introduction in the period."
Introduce free choice of treatment for substance abuse and mental health.
More treatment centers for drug addicts. It will be harder to come off along with a more coherent behandlingsløp.
No more liberal alcohol policy.
No to public offers of early ultrasound in week 12
Environment
No to the impact of Lofoten, Vesterålen and Senja in the next parliamentary term (2013-2017). It should, however, establish an "environmental base / base oil spill" in the Lofoten and Vesterålen.
No to oil recovery in Jan Mayen, the ice, the Skagerrak and the Møre.
More renewable energy and enhance climate agreement.
Introduce a tax credit for investments in energy saving (energy conservation) in the home.
Greater investment in public transport in big cities.
A review of the Biodiversity Act.
Foreign Policy
Be a contributor to the United Nations, NATO, the Nordic Council and other international organizations.
Maintain a proactive High North policy.
Be more active in the EU with a view to safeguard Norway, through the EEA Agreement.
Have a balanced approach to the Middle East conflict.
Municipalities Form
All four sets behind a local form. Number of municipalities in Norway to be reduced significantly by the merger. Previously, there has been talk of adding the three of the four municipalities. This will take place at the so-called "volunteer force".
Education
Raising the consumption demands of teacher education.
RLE subject (religion, philosophy and ethics) changes name to KRLE (Christianity, religion, philosophy and ethics).
Does the penguin still have a job?
Quote from: Brazen on October 01, 2013, 03:59:44 AM
Does the penguin still have a job?
Sir Nils Olav is a a Colonel in the Norwegian Royal Guard. The present government is not only more monarchist than the previous one it is also more pro military and for the alliance with the UK. So the Penguin still has a job.
Edit: and he will remain in Edinburgh simply because Norwegian law and custom doesn't permit animals to have knightly titles or military rank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXWtP-vzKBo
Quote from: Viking on October 01, 2013, 04:07:35 AM
Quote from: Brazen on October 01, 2013, 03:59:44 AM
Does the penguin still have a job?
Sir Nils Olav is a a Colonel in the Norwegian Royal Guard. The present government is not only more monarchist than the previous one it is also more pro military and for the alliance with the UK. So the Penguin still has a job.
Edit: and he will remain in Edinburgh simply because Norwegian law and custom doesn't permit animals to have knightly titles or military rank.
I always thought they kept him there for fear that Norwegians would eat him.