My kindle died, it was one of the first ones. I can get a MS Surface for 220 right now. Think I should go for it? Or wait until my birthday and hold out for like a Nexus Insert Number Here?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 04, 2013, 12:12:58 PM
My kindle died, it was one of the first ones. I can get a MS Surface for 220 right now. Think I should go for it? Or wait until my birthday and hold out for like a Nexus Insert Number Here?
That'd be the Surface RT, right? Very poor app support from what I can recall, and the whole Windows RT ecosystem seems like it's swirling around the bowl.
If you can afford to buy one on a whim go for it, but I'd stick with a Nexus / iPad.
Nexus 7.
[cdm]
An old slate and piece of chalk. :smarty:
[/cdm]
Sister enjoys Nexus 7.
Yeah, RT sounds like it's dying a slow and painful death with virtually no developer buy-in. I suspect they'll get spooked and put up a fire sale on Surface Pros within the next 18 months.
Want a larger screen. Maybe the Kindle Fire 8.9. Its cheaper.
both boys need new tablets. All of their textbooks are onling now so they need a light weight device with a fairly big screen and preferrably an option to hook up a keyboard.
They were looking at the surface pro since their school uses microsoft 8 for its applications. I was looking at the Nexus 10 as a comparitor but it looks more like a lesser option that is trying to get market share based on price.
Assuming price isnt my main concern what does the mob say about getting the surface pro?
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 07, 2013, 04:33:17 PM
both boys need new tablets. All of their textbooks are onling now so they need a light weight device with a fairly big screen and preferrably an option to hook up a keyboard.
They were looking at the surface pro since their school uses microsoft 8 for its applications. I was looking at the Nexus 10 as a comparitor but it looks more like a lesser option that is trying to get market share based on price.
Assuming price isnt my main concern what does the mob say about getting the surface pro?
Battery life is atrocious, and it runs very very hot. Or so I've read.
It costs a fortune, and being brand neew there's no way of telling what kind of app market will be out there for the next year.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 07, 2013, 04:33:17 PM
both boys need new tablets. All of their textbooks are onling now so they need a light weight device with a fairly big screen and preferrably an option to hook up a keyboard.
They were looking at the surface pro since their school uses microsoft 8 for its applications. I was looking at the Nexus 10 as a comparitor but it looks more like a lesser option that is trying to get market share based on price.
Assuming price isnt my main concern what does the mob say about getting the surface pro?
The Nexus 10 is there to compete with the Ipads. The Surface pro is a full fledge windows computer in a different form factor sporting a touch screen.
We went out and looked at them all. The clincher was that they could write notes on the screen of the Surface pro. My younger son is up in his room now "writing" his math homework on his tablet. The only thing the Apple product could do better was it had better apps. But these are not meant for entertainment so that was a pretty low priority.
The ability for them to write notes in class and save it all electronically is going to be huge.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 07, 2013, 11:04:02 PM
We went out and looked at them all. The clincher was that they could write notes on the screen of the Surface pro. My younger son is up in his room now "writing" his math homework on his tablet. The only thing the Apple product could do better was it had better apps. But these are not meant for entertainment so that was a pretty low priority.
The ability for them to write notes in class and save it all electronically is going to be huge.
This is a good "teachable moment". Remember folks, that when someone asks for advice, they usually just mean "please tell me that what I was doing is correct". :lol:
Particularly if they are CC.
You shouldn't be too concerned with apps anyway, since the Pro is basically a Windows laptop without a keyboard.
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 08:49:31 AM
This is a good "teachable moment". Remember folks, that when someone asks for advice, they usually just mean "please tell me that what I was doing is correct". :lol:
Looks to me like he tested them out and got the ones he liked and that did the things he wanted. Just because he didn't buy the one you wanted him to buy doesn't mean he completely disregarded everything you said, not that you said anything particularly useful ("or so I've read").
Unless I've owned a Surface tablet, what else could I say but "from what I've read"?
Nobody in the thread was suggesting a Surface tablet, is all. And while the idea sounds incredibly nifty (it is a full WinTel computer after all), the reviews have been pretty much mixed-to-poor.
Edit: Okay I'll take out the part about someone beating off to pictures of Steve Jobs and all that. There simply wasn't much advice for CC to go with in this thread, and certainly not enough for a post like that from you.
The important part is he didn't seem to blow anyone off, there just wasn't much here. He went and tried the various options out, the Pros did something that was very useful, so he went with them. This is how you're supposed to shop for things like this, isn't it? Why the post about a teachable moment because he didn't get whatever it is you wanted him to get (but didn't suggest as an alternative)?
If I had seen his post I would have straight up recommended a Surface Pro. They need something to read textbooks on + a keyboard + the ability to do anything else associated with a school that uses Win 8 + price isn't particularly important. That just screams Surface Pro (or one of the smaller Windows 8 touchscreen laptops but he was already looking at the SP).
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 08, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
Edit: Okay I'll take out the part about someone beating off to pictures of Steve Jobs and all that. There simply wasn't much advice for CC to go with in this thread, and certainly not enough for a post like that from you.
The important part is he didn't seem to blow anyone off, there just wasn't much here. He went and tried the various options out, the Pros did something that was very useful, so he went with them. This is how you're supposed to shop for things like this, isn't it? Why the post about a teachable moment because he didn't get whatever it is you wanted him to get (but didn't suggest as an alternative)?
If I had seen his post I would have straight up recommended a Surface Pro. They need something to read textbooks on + a keyboard + the ability to do anything else associated with a school that uses Win 8 + price isn't particularly important. That just screams Surface Pro (or one of the smaller Windows 8 touchscreen laptops but he was already looking at the SP).
While I'll almost always throw in an Apple recommendation whether warranted or not, I think I'm otherwise pretty reasonable. Here, I suggested "Nexus / iPad".
The big concern I have with Surface Pro for school would be battery life. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the impression I have is it won't last through a day of classes.
The battery life tends to run about 5-6 hours depending on what you're doing, in my experience. It's like a small Windows laptop (because it IS a small Windows laptop), and people get through the day with those all the time. The battery life is fine. It wouldn't be enough for me, but I'm moving around more than a kid in class, and require more battery life (so I got the Air). A kid in a classroom can just plug it in if it gets a little low.
They'll work just fine for kids in school.
Also, you didn't suggest anything to CC. You just said the battery life wasn't good and it runs hot, then your next post was the teachable moment one.
E: I do have to point out that they're building new versions of the Surface tablets though, so that might have been something to consider. The RT is losing the "RT" part, and will just be called the Surface now so it isn't going away just yet, the Pros are getting the 4th gen i5 chips, and they're making a mini.
I like the idea. The Pro is just too expensive for me. Anything new like that is something I'd avoid anyway, let someone else find the bugs and the 'needs improvements'.
I ended up splitting the difference between a tablet and an ebook reader, got a Nook HD+ over the weekend.
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 08:49:31 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 07, 2013, 11:04:02 PM
We went out and looked at them all. The clincher was that they could write notes on the screen of the Surface pro. My younger son is up in his room now "writing" his math homework on his tablet. The only thing the Apple product could do better was it had better apps. But these are not meant for entertainment so that was a pretty low priority.
The ability for them to write notes in class and save it all electronically is going to be huge.
This is a good "teachable moment". Remember folks, that when someone asks for advice, they usually just mean "please tell me that what I was doing is correct". :lol:
Wow, sorry for not buying an apple product there BB.
I got three pieces of advice all of which did help me make up my mind. You raised a concern about battery life. It is true that other products have a longer battery life but that wasnt a major issue because they are going to be plugged into a power supply most of the time. You also raised an issue about heat. They do run a bit hot but also not a major concern for me.
There was another comment about a lack of apps. That was not a concern of mine. This device is not an entertainment unit. Everything the boys need is there.
GF gave the best advice when he explained that the Nexus 10 and Ipads were different products and the Surface pro is a full windows computer. He was right and that is what helped me make up my mind. That and the fact it is a fully functional computer that the boys can write on and has text recognition software to translate their handwriting into typewritten font - A huge benefit. Basically the boys get all their homework electronically. Before they had to print out the work, do it by hand, and then hand it in. Now they can simply download the documents, do their work directly on those documents and show the electronic version or email the completed assignment back to the teacher.
So now you know where you can stick your Apple fanboism.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 08, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
If I had seen his post I would have straight up recommended a Surface Pro. They need something to read textbooks on + a keyboard + the ability to do anything else associated with a school that uses Win 8 + price isn't particularly important. That just screams Surface Pro (or one of the smaller Windows 8 touchscreen laptops but he was already looking at the SP).
That is reassuring. I was wondering if there was something else out there I might have missed.
Not that I know of. I've used them before (borrowed through work, etc) and really liked them, but I didn't get one because they ended up not quite fitting my needs (my wife too, she ended up getting a small convertible Win 8 laptop).
I think they're really damn cool gadgets, and what you/your kids are using them for is something they'll be great at.
Microsoft to Debut Second Generation of Surface Products on September 23
http://allthingsd.com/20130909/microsoft-to-introduce-second-generation-of-surface-products-at-sept-23-new-york-event/
If you need it for reading then stick with a regular kindle or the like.
A lot of tablets are easier on the eyes than would be expected but they're still not on a paper level.
I'd avoid iPads, the locked in market and lack of flash is a pain. I'm actually coming to rather like my kindle fire now I've downloaded a different, flash supporting, web browser, and a video player which handles all the regular internet formats.
Fuck Apple. Just about anything else would be OK.
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:34:37 PM
The big concern I have with Surface Pro for school would be battery life. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the impression I have is it won't last through a day of classes.
Happy to report that both boys returned from school with 50%+ power left over.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:34:37 PM
The big concern I have with Surface Pro for school would be battery life. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the impression I have is it won't last through a day of classes.
Happy to report that both boys returned from school with 50%+ power left over.
I'm happy to hear it. :)
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:34:37 PM
The big concern I have with Surface Pro for school would be battery life. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the impression I have is it won't last through a day of classes.
Happy to report that both boys returned from school with 50%+ power left over.
Wow, your children have a lot of energy.
Quote from: DGuller on September 10, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:34:37 PM
The big concern I have with Surface Pro for school would be battery life. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the impression I have is it won't last through a day of classes.
Happy to report that both boys returned from school with 50%+ power left over.
Wow, your children have a lot of energy.
A good Canadian diet is responsible I bet. Geese and bacon.
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:06:24 PM
Nobody in the thread was suggesting a Surface tablet, is all. And while the idea sounds incredibly nifty (it is a full WinTel computer after all), the reviews have been pretty much mixed-to-poor.
The RTs were panned, the Pros got mostly good reviews other than price and battery life. And the postulated Haswell models address the latter.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 10, 2013, 10:22:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2013, 11:06:24 PM
Nobody in the thread was suggesting a Surface tablet, is all. And while the idea sounds incredibly nifty (it is a full WinTel computer after all), the reviews have been pretty much mixed-to-poor.
The RTs were panned, the Pros got mostly good reviews other than price and battery life. And the postulated Haswell models address the latter.
Well, yes. When you put aside the negatives, the reviews were very positive. :huh:
Look, I don't want to troll CC's thread here. My "teachable moment" comment was that when CC asked about the Surface Pro, he had three people suggest he not purchase one, but he did so anyways. The Surface Pro
sounds nifty, as I said before. Maybe the recently-announced, but so far unreleased, Haswells will make them an excellent computer. But the Gen 1 reviews I read seemed to say 'interesting concept, but not quite ready yet'.
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 11:04:24 AM
Well, yes. When you put aside the negatives, the reviews were very positive. :huh:
Right.
In the same way that iPad got positive reviews, except for the lack of USB/external storage, no running multiple apps, no Flash, poor productivity apps, low memory in base models, etc.
I'm not being facetious, I have an iPad myself and love it. But it has limitations, every product does.
I don't have a Surface Pro but it makes a compelling case. Unlike a Nexus or an iPad you can actually get real work done on it. If it hits 7 hours on the new model then the battery life is workable.
The only question is whether at that point it makes sense to get a touch screen Ultrabook or other convertible option. That all depends on how MS prices it.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 10, 2013, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 11:04:24 AM
Well, yes. When you put aside the negatives, the reviews were very positive. :huh:
Right.
In the same way that iPad got positive reviews, except for the lack of USB/external storage, no running multiple apps, no Flash, poor productivity apps, low memory in base models, etc.
I'm not being facetious, I have an iPad myself and love it. But it has limitations, every product does.
I don't have a Surface Pro but it makes a compelling case. Unlike a Nexus or an iPad you can actually get real work done on it. If it hits 7 hours on the new model then the battery life is workable.
The only question is whether at that point it makes sense to get a touch screen Ultrabook or other convertible option. That all depends on how MS prices it.
But most reviews I recall of the iPad were on balance very favourable, even after accounting for the negatives you mentioned.
But reviews for Surface Pro were, after accounting for the negatives, fairly middling to average.
I think Ars Technica is fairly widely read here, so here was their review:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-with-windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder/4/
You should get over the fact that he didn't buy iPads. The Surface Pro does the stuff he wants done better than the other things he tested. Deal with it, yo.
E: That Ars reviewer sounds like a fucking moron. Has he never used a device with a tablet form factor before? OMG IT WONT STAND UP ON MY KNEES AND THE ANGLE IS WRONG AND WITH THE KEYBOARD ITS BIGGER THAN THIS OTHER THING hold it in your hand you dumbass and if you really need a laptop with the attached keyboard and everything that comes with that all the time, then get an actual laptop instead of a laptop in tablet form.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 12:17:21 PM
You should get over the fact that he didn't buy iPads. The Surface Pro does the stuff he wants done better than the other things he tested. Deal with it, yo.
I don't own Apple stock, it doesn't make any difference to me what CC buys.
It's the lot of you who keep arguing the point with me. :mellow:
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
I don't own Apple stock, it doesn't make any difference to me what CC buys.
It's the lot of you who keep arguing the point with me. :mellow:
Yeah, maybe next time don't make your offended lessons learned post, then continue following up on that post.
I got an Asus TF300. It is an older model, but I like it. Has 32Gb, GPS, nice 10' display, and a decent battery life. 200 bucks.
Jesus, people, can you stop making posts about Beeb's hurt feelings? I swear, it seems like everyone has to weigh in on this controversy.
Sorry.
Quote from: DGuller on September 10, 2013, 12:42:17 PM
Jesus, people, can you stop making posts about Beeb's hurt feelings? I swear, it seems like everyone has to weigh in on this controversy.
No!
@CC Fuck you & your kids. Get an iPad! Gosh darn it. You trying to kill poor BB! Stop being a bully, buy an iPad.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 12:17:21 PM
E: That Ars reviewer sounds like a fucking moron.
The fact that 2 of the big issues he raises up front are GPS by default and camera quality also supports this.
That too, yeah. I managed to get beyond that point, but then he tried setting it up in his lap, and I just gave up on him as a human being.
E: I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a tablet as a camera. Is this really a thing? A lot of tablet reviews seem to mention the camera.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
That too, yeah. I managed to get beyond that point, but then he tried setting it up in his lap, and I just gave up on him as a human being.
E: I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a tablet as a camera. Is this really a thing? A lot of tablet reviews seem to mention the camera.
Well if it has a camera, some people must use it as a camera. :mellow:
I can't believe we're still discussing this. But here's another review (anandtech) which also said 'nice idea, but needs some work'.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
But as I said, if it's working for CC's kids then good. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 03:10:16 PM
Well if it has a camera, some people must use it as a camera. :mellow:
The point is it's almost certainly a secondary function and isn't worthy of opening statements in a review of the device.
QuoteI can't believe we're still discussing this. But here's another review (anandtech) which also said 'nice idea, but needs some work'.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
We're still discussing it because you won't just let it go. No iPads. It's going to be okay. It doesn't matter even a little bit if you can dig up some reviews that agree with you. There are other reviews out there, say CNet, for example, that say it's a very good thing. The most important review for our purposes, however, is CC's. He likes them. Stop it.
QuoteBut as I said, if it's working for CC's kids then good. :thumbsup:
That review should be plenty for you.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 03:17:27 PM
We're still discussing it because you won't just let it go. No iPads. It's going to be okay. It doesn't matter even a little bit if you can dig up some reviews that agree with you. There are other reviews out there, say CNet, for example, that say it's a very good thing. The most important review for our purposes, however, is CC's. He likes them. Stop it.
You seem to be the one who can't let it go. :mellow: I never even recommend only an iPad - it was "Nexus / iPad".
And this review?
http://reviews.cnet.com/microsoft-surface-pro/
Quote from: cnetThe bottom line: The Surface Pro's gutsy design successfully reinvents the Windows 8 laptop by cramming an ultrabook experience into the body of a 10-inch tablet. Those wanting to go all-in on the tablet experience won't regret buying the Surface Pro, but we're holding out for a future, more polished generation of the device.
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 03:22:58 PM
You seem to be the one who can't let it go. :mellow: I never even recommend only an iPad - it was "Nexus / iPad".
I don't see any posts from you in response to CC recommending a damn thing. You said you read it ran hot and had low battery life, then got all butthurt because he bought something.
QuoteAnd this review?
http://reviews.cnet.com/microsoft-surface-pro/
Quote from: cnetThe bottom line: The Surface Pro's gutsy design successfully reinvents the Windows 8 laptop by cramming an ultrabook experience into the body of a 10-inch tablet. Those wanting to go all-in on the tablet experience won't regret buying the Surface Pro, but we're holding out for a future, more polished generation of the device.
Yeah that's the one: "Very good" It says it right there
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
E: I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a tablet as a camera. Is this really a thing? A lot of tablet reviews seem to mention the camera.
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
Seems like it would be super inconvenient vs. just using a phone. I like my tablet and all, but the thing is a 10.1" device.
E: Sorry had to leave my desk real quick there. Heh. THe thing is a 10.1" device. I don't want to be swinging it around taking pictures and shit when I've got a thing with a camera that's just as good (maybe better, I haven't looked) that I can hold in one hand.
It is too bulky for porn shots too.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
Seems like it would be super inconvenient vs. just using a phone. I like my tablet and all, but the thing is a 10.1" device.
E: Sorry had to leave my desk real quick there. Heh. THe thing is a 10.1" device. I don't want to be swinging it around taking pictures and shit when I've got a thing with a camera that's just as good (maybe better, I haven't looked) that I can hold in one hand.
I would generally agree, but I think it's doubtful that I would have both a tablet and a smartphone with me at the same time. They're kind of an either / or of computing.
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 05:10:23 PM
I would generally agree, but I think it's doubtful that I would have both a tablet and a smartphone with me at the same time. They're kind of an either / or of computing.
When would you take your tablet somewhere instead of your phone?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 06:16:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2013, 05:10:23 PM
I would generally agree, but I think it's doubtful that I would have both a tablet and a smartphone with me at the same time. They're kind of an either / or of computing.
When would you take your tablet somewhere instead of your phone?
Right? :huh:
I always have my phone whenever I have my tablet.
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
To be fair, that's only marginally more obtrusive than somebody breaking out a monstrous DSLR with a telephoto lens.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 10, 2013, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
To be fair, that's only marginally more obtrusive than somebody breaking out a monstrous DSLR with a telephoto lens.
But at least a DSLR takes decent pictures.
The cool factor has hit. The boys' peers now want them. Being able to take notes in science and math classes directly onto the computer (which would not be possible with only a keyboard) is turning out to be the biggest convenience.
It would have been nice to be able to wait for the next generation. It sounds like a good improvement but the boys needed something now and this seemed to be the best for their needs at this time.
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 10, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
E: I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a tablet as a camera. Is this really a thing? A lot of tablet reviews seem to mention the camera.
Unfortunately, yes. I always want to sock people in the face when I see them snapping photos around the city with their iPads.
:yes:
Those people are freaking morons.
The only possible plus side I can see is the photo looks similar to how it will actually look to most people, since the camera screen is nigh-on monitor sized.
I have a Nexus 10 and I love it. Only thing about it is it may be a tad too big.
I start the thread and am quickly ignored. I wonder why I still come here sometimes. Thanks a lot Cal.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 13, 2013, 06:02:41 AM
I start the thread and am quickly ignored. I wonder why I still come here sometimes. Thanks a lot Cal.
:ike:
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 13, 2013, 06:02:41 AM
I start the thread and am quickly ignored. I wonder why I still come here sometimes. Thanks a lot Cal.
:wacko:
:berkut:
:elvis:
:bowler:
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 11, 2013, 11:55:19 AM
The cool factor has hit. The boys' peers now want them. Being able to take notes in science and math classes directly onto the computer (which would not be possible with only a keyboard) is turning out to be the biggest convenience.
It would have been nice to be able to wait for the next generation. It sounds like a good improvement but the boys needed something now and this seemed to be the best for their needs at this time.
You convinced me/helped me convince myself.
It is a bit of an odd tweener device but it does happen to work perfectly for my needs. And I am finding MyNote to be convenient way of dealing with the problem of scrambling to find the right case notepad to put notes in whenever a call comes in.